Apple's iPhone 5c 'failure flop' outsold Blackberry, Windows Phone and every Android flagship in Q4

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  • Reply 81 of 299
    softekysofteky Posts: 135member
    Thank you, once again, for a well researched, thoughtful, and well presented article.

    From my perspective the 5c was Apple's response to the popular clamour for an iPhone that could compete with low-end smart phones. Successful execution of a low-end smartphone deployment would severly weaken Apple as a company. Consider the resource drain of producing enough low-cost, low-feature phones to make a difference to Apple's net revenue. Sure, Apple would rake in gross revenue but at such low margins that Wall Street would throw a fit and properly declare Apple to be on the road of diminishing returns.

    Apple is not out there to produce massive volumes of cheap crap to flood the market. That is Google's job. Google relies on Ad revenue from a massive platform base. Apple is a hardware vendor and relies on convincing customers to buy high margin goods. To do this successfully, Apple's platform must provide some justification to support this high margin. It does this by providing (at little or no extra cost) an effective ecosystem of applications and centrally supported resources.

    Cheap Apple phones that properly tie in to that ecosystem are an oxymoron. The minimum resource requirement is too high to access the ecosystem resources and would require dipping into Apples margin (its major source of revenue) to accomplish. The result would be less than optimal user experiences for no relevant gain to Apple (the gained customers would not value the ecosystem, having not been properly exposed to it and would not be candidates to upgrade to the fully supported systems).

    In other words a successful rollout of a truly cheap iPhone would be detrimental to Apple. Instead Apple executed (in the iPhone 5c) a replacement to the iPhone 4 & 5 that would not really fit a market niche until the iPhone 6 came out.

    The analyst slamming of the 5c is FUD-spreading at its worst. Consider that every 5c that is sold maintains Apple's margin and business model and half of those sold are taken from Android sales. The only negative side to this rollout is the currently-unsold inventory which Cook is a master at managing and will shortly be accommodated.
  • Reply 82 of 299

    When Tim Cook said they may have misjudged 5C demand, it could have something to do with the complexity of the logistics of trying to fulfill the formidable number of SKUs associated with so many colors, memory sizes, and myriad of telcos that they were rolled out to at launch.  They would likely tend to run out of some colors/sizes and be overstocked in others here and there.  

     

    As usual, thanks again to DED for his hard-hitting, deep reporting analysis exposing many of the myths surrounding the Apple story.  Why is it so many mainstream tech writers at major publications never pay any attention to top flight analysts who really know what they are talking about?  For example, I looked up exactly whom some major tech writers for the LA Times, Bloomberg, WSJ list as following on their Twitter accounts.  One would expect they would follow at least some of the "solid", more objective, analysts/writers like DED, Dediu, Bajarin, Evans, Ritchie, Elmer-DeWitt, Mossberg, Pogue, Gruber, Dalrymple, Thompson, Arthur, et al.,......But NOOOOO!

  • Reply 83 of 299
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,425moderator
    flaneur wrote: »
    No, again no "moral equivalence," just like with Apple's sales and marketing vs. that of run-of-the-mill lifestyle advertising.

    DED's us-against-them theme in many of his strategy pieces like this one comes from the fact that a big chunk of the tech and financial press is aligned against and attacking Apple.

    They started it and are the aggressors and so sites like this and DED's general approach are defensively biased. I wouldn't confuse that with the lying campaigns put on by BGR and CNBC, Forbes, etc. Someone should make a list of sites and writers.

    What has Apple done to deserve this? Answer: succeed beyond all expectations at making great disrupting stuff that follows their own protected system, smiling all the way to the bank.

    Apple plays Othello in this drama, the anti community is playing Iago. Jealousy mostly, hatred of success, and particularly hatred for what they perceive as elitism.

    You may add to your insightful post the fact that Apple holds its cards close to its vest and this sticks in the craw of the tech media, so they strike out at Apple in an effort to teach it a lesson in this regard.
  • Reply 84 of 299
    axualaxual Posts: 244member
    @brlawyer
    Quote "I have never seen anyone with a 5C - and I can assure you that the 5C will go down in history as one of Apple's major market failures ever."

    LOL. That for sure is one of the biggest posting failures ever.
  • Reply 85 of 299
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    When Tim Cook said they may have misjudged 5C demand, it could have something to do with the complexity of the logistics of trying to fulfill the formidable number of SKUs associated with so many colors, memory sizes, and myriad of telcos that they were rolled out to at launch.  They would likely tend to run out of some colors/sizes and be overstocked in others here and there.  

    As usual, thanks again to DED for his hard-hitting, deep reporting analysis exposing many of the myths surrounding the Apple story.  Why is it so many mainstream tech writers at major publications never pay any attention to top flight analysts who really know what they are talking about?  For example, I looked up exactly whom some major tech writers for the LA Times, Bloomberg, WSJ list as following on their Twitter accounts.  One would expect they would follow at least some of the "solid", more objective, analysts/writers like DED, Dediu, Bajarin, Evans, Ritchie, Elmer-DeWitt, Mossberg, Pogue, Gruber, Dalrymple, Thompson, Arthur, et al.,......But NOOOOO!

    Very interesting angles, on both points.
  • Reply 86 of 299
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    You may add to your insightful post the fact that Apple holds its cards close to its vest and this sticks in the craw of the tech media, so they strike out at Apple in an effort to teach it a lesson in this regard.

    Correct, not to be overlooked. Thanks.
  • Reply 87 of 299
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    zoso4 wrote: »
    Many simply wanted the Touch ID on the 5s. It does not mean the 5c is a bad phone.
    this. I'd never go back to a phone that didn't have it.
  • Reply 88 of 299
    foadfoad Posts: 708member
    chipsy wrote: »

    I use both and see no reason why 'droid dorks' would be jealous of the iPhone. I rather think it's the superiority complex of some fanboys from both sides that tick each other off. In my eyes both are great products in their own right, each with their own advantages and disadvantages.

    chipsy wrote: »

    Calling people lesser peeps is a superiority complex. Well first there is real multitasking. I know some people don't need real multitasking and are fine with the pseudo-multitasking iOS offers, but I sure use it. Then there is Google Now (yes I am aware that there is an iOS version as well but isn't nearly as good as the Android version at this moment in time), which works absolutely fantastic for me and is something I think Apple should integrate into iOS as well. (which they already tentatively started doing with Today)
    Then there is Notifications. I'm sorry but the Android Notifications are far better than those on iOS. For one they are actionable and expandable.
    And let's not forget the ability to choose your own default apps, the impossibility of which I think even the most die hard Apple fan would agree is a disadvantage of iOS. Pretty sure almost everyone at one point had this situation where he/she wanted a different default app and found out it wasn't possible.

    But why am I even discussing this with you, you clearly never used Android 4.1 or later (and probably never would even try it). And whatever I say you will always think you are right, even if you're not. You seem to be exactly the kind of person I was talking about in my previous post (which exist at both sides).

    I primarily use my iPhone 5S but have recently purchased a Nexus 5 for development purposes. The main things I like about Android are intents and notifications. Google Now is interesting, if not a bit creepy. I see its potential though. There are other little things I find interesting, but as a platform as a whole, I personally am not interested.

    I don't see myself switching to Android as my primary devices because after having used it for a month, the fluidity isn't there. I don't see apps like Tweetbot in the Play Store. Even apps by the same developers have a different feel to them on iOS. There just is a different level of quality. They flow differently. A lot of Android just feels very mechanical.

    Having said that, private APIs have been hinting at something similar to intents coming to iOS. I hope notifications are improved upon. As a whole though, I prefer iOS by a long shot, but I see why folks like Android. Granted, not everyone cares about actionable notifications and inter app communication.
  • Reply 89 of 299
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SudoNym View Post

     

    Why is everybody so unfair to Apple?  


    for the page hits of course.

     

    in general, articles about Apple will routinely get a lot of hits.

     

    and in general, negative articles about anything will routinely get a lot of hits.

     

    so, articles that are Apple + negative get the most hits.

     

    they're just hit whores.

  • Reply 90 of 299
    chipsychipsy Posts: 287member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post





    If those folks instead bought the 5S, then the 5C was a success. Well, we investors see it that way.



    That's of course another way of looking at it :). Though I am curious what Apple is going to do this year, launch a follow-up of the 5c or go back to the old system of keeping the previous model in production. We'll have to wait and see but personally I liked to old system better :).

  • Reply 91 of 299
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    I have never seen a 5c in the wild. I checked them out at the Apple store and I kind of remember the color schemes. Sometimes it can be difficult to tell because a lot of people have cases so unless you know someone who has one or see it up close there could be some out there that are not immediately recognizable. Apple never said how many were sold so anyone who says there are lots or says there are few, has no facts to support their claim.

  • Reply 92 of 299

    In my opinion the 5C was Apple's entry into the budget priced market, not in the first year of release though. As seen with the 4 and 4S being sold years after release, I see the role of the 5C replacing the 4 and 4S as the budget iPhone. After the first year the price should drop on the 5C and the 4/4S should stop being sold. Apple will have then removed the previous generations of iPhone off the market and replaced it with a cheaper build but more closely in line with the higher end 5/5S. Year two and beyond is where the dividends of the 5C will really pay off.

  • Reply 93 of 299
    I am surprised by the number of anti-Apple people in this discussion.

    Excellent piece DED. As always, you're very thorough. What I find troubling though is, how many ignorant people fight so hard to dispute your facts.

    Thank you for naming names. Please develop a Hall of Shame that is linkable. It could serve to upend the never ending quest for ad revenue click-bait at Apple's expense.
  • Reply 94 of 299
    chipsychipsy Posts: 287member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by foad View Post







    I primarily use my iPhone 5S but have recently purchased a Nexus 5 for development purposes. The main things I like about Android are intents and notifications. Google Now is interesting, if not a bit creepy. I see its potential though. There are other little things I find interesting, but as a platform as a whole, I personally am not interested.



    I don't see myself switching to Android as my primary devices because after having used it for a month, the fluidity isn't there. I don't see apps like Tweetbot in the Play Store. Even apps by the same developers have a different feel to them on iOS. There just is a different level of quality. They flow differently. A lot of Android just feels very mechanical.



    Having said that, private APIs have been hinting at something similar to intents coming to iOS. I hope notifications are improved upon. As a whole though, I prefer iOS by a long shot, but I see why folks like Android. Granted, not everyone cares about actionable notifications and inter app communication.



    I think that's a given. Different people have different requirements and preferences and should choose whatever they like best. I was only detailing what in my eyes are the advantages of Android because he requested it, I also have my gripes with Android (just like there are advantages to iOS). The guy was just getting on my nerves because he was looking down at everyone who made different choices than himself without probably even knowing what those choices by other people actually entailed (he never tried it). Nice to see some rationality / levelheadedness after all that. :)

  • Reply 95 of 299
    cintoscintos Posts: 113member
    brlawyer wrote: »
    Notwithstanding AI's great efforts above, the fact is: the 5C is a FLOP, aka the IIvx/IIvi of the iPhone world.

    Even Apple itself admitted that sales were not "in line" (euphemism for "sorry, we haven't sold that many") - besides, they were absolutely sure that it would sell well in emerging markets and lower strata of industrialized markets; but they did not realize that the 5S was just marginally more expensive, particularly when such phones are sold in instalments or with more expensive plans.

    In other words, Cook completely misinterpreted demand trends just like what Apple did with the PowerBook when it didn't produce enough units of the specific notebook model really wanted by the public.

    I have never seen anyone with a 5C - and I can assure you that the 5C will go down in history as one of Apple's major market failures ever; it will be quietly discontinued in the coming months (or, more appropriately, "superseded" by revamped non-5C models). 
    Samsung's $14 billion ad budget at work.
  • Reply 96 of 299
    zoso4zoso4 Posts: 11member
    rogifan wrote: »
    zoso4 wrote: »
    Many simply wanted the Touch ID on the 5s. It does not mean the 5c is a bad phone.
    this. I'd never go back to a phone that didn't have it.
    Still, the absence of it on the 5c doesn't make it a bad phone. I use the 5. My next will probably be the 6. I 'm sure it will have Touch ID. I'll play with it a bit, but will likely turn it off. But I'm an old retired guy who stays home most of the time. I don't worry with locking my phone. Glad you enjoy it.
  • Reply 97 of 299

    Excellent article.

     

    Looks like Google and Samsung money is very, very powerful. 

  • Reply 98 of 299
    chipsychipsy Posts: 287member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

     

    for the page hits of course.

     

    in general, articles about Apple will routinely get a lot of hits.

     

    and in general, negative articles about anything will routinely get a lot of hits.

     

    so, articles that are Apple + negative get the most hits.

     

    they're just hit whores.


    There's no doubt about that... Either exaggerating the negative or (exaggerating) the rumors of possible new features in the future model is what generally gets the most hits. So during the slow season when little rumors leak out is prime time for negative articles.  BGR f.e. is really good at that.

  • Reply 99 of 299
    cintoscintos Posts: 113member
    mj web wrote: »
    GIVE IT UP ALREADY AI!
    Even Tim Cook disputes your erroneous BS supposition.
    ... And that supposition is that the 5c likely outsold the samsung S5 device in the US last fall. Do you have facts that supersede the 4 major carrier's fall results?
  • Reply 100 of 299
    cintoscintos Posts: 113member
    sudonym wrote: »
    Why is everybody so unfair to Apple?  
    Not everyone is parroting Samsung's $14 billion message, only those who want a piece of it.
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