When a company who has been proven to copy Apple's products and fined in other countries for planting false information about competitors to gain the upper hand, has a marketing plan that is focused entirely on beating a company that according to the media, had already lost to Samsung it telling. You seem pretty willing to ignore Samsung's own words to disagree with DED. Odd?
Ignore Samsung's own words as in what? Them mentioning they want to beat Apple? What kind of company would you be if you didn't want to beat your biggest competitor . I'm just trying to rationally interpret the document. The only odd thing I see is you apparently not realizing that this is an opinion piece while it clearly is and as such it should be labeled as an editoral. I'm also not a fan of many of Samsung's practices (or a Samsung fan at all for that matter) but I just don't see what DED seems to see in this case, or anything really worth on reporting for that matter (just like was the case with the leaked Apple documents btw).
They got way more attention than they should have. Everyone keeps an eye on what the competition is doing. The difference though is Apple is clearly the leader, top dog, #1 smartphone vendor. You expect those that are not to be more worried about the leader than the leader worried about the follower. Apple does a great job of largely ignoring competition in general, so any change in tone comes across as a surprise to some.
Apple never ignored the competition. The public image is very different than what goes on behind closed doors.
As you stated, Apple is top dog right now and everyone is gunning for them.
Throughout history, we've seen the also rans, bridesmaids, call them what you like, always go after the top dog publicly. They're trying to create their own hype.
Pepsi did it against Coke, Burger King against McDonald's. Samsung's doing it now against Apple. So far they've succeeded in becoming the top Android phone maker. Can they dislodge Apple however? That may prove more difficult that a few billion $$$ more in marketing.
They got way more attention than they should have. Everyone keeps an eye on what the competition is doing. The difference though is Apple is clearly the leader, top dog, #1 smartphone vendor. You expect those that are not to be more worried about the leader than the leader worried about the follower. Apple does a great job of largely ignoring competition in general, so any change in tone comes across as a surprise to some.
Apple does a great job of *publicly* ignoring competition. Confidence is part of their public image. But it would be foolish of them to actually ignore the competition since great ideas are almost never born in isolation. As his email showed, even SJ was not above taking cues from the competing OS for ways to improve iOS.
Apple does a great job of *publicly* ignoring competition. Confidence is part of their public image. It would be foolish of them to actually ignore the competition since great ideas are almost never born out of isolation. As his email showed, even SJ was not above taking cues from the competing OS for ways to improve iOS.
That's exactly what I meant. I have since gone back to reflect that in my post.
Going to weight in on this. I think this is an important topic about the way the media has been able to spin apple as losing its innovation spirit and soon will be come less of a presence in the future of tech I don't believe this)
The fact is Steve is gone. People listened to him. He had the media's ear like Bill gates, Bezos, Page, Dell does etc... The want to hear them talk, they know they built something out of nothing and changed the world. Tim cook is a great CEO, but he did not do this. The media does not think of him the same way, and neither does the public.
Case in point. Do you hear any thing about antenna gate any more? Steve took it an made it a non issue, people listened to him when he talked. They took him @ his word because he already had proven him self. Now that was on a product with one of its primary uses was spun to have a"Flaw".
Now lets talk Maps. I even still do not use maps, even though the few times I did it worked pretty well. I still go to google maps. The letter that TC wrote did not effectively change the message. People did not really care what TC had to say on the issue, it was moot because he does not have the same history as tech "visionaries". In short he hasn't proven that he can change the world like Steve did over and over again.
I think apple as a company is doing incredible. Their devices are great I use them every day. But Tim cook has hard shoes to fill. He needs to change the world for the media/general public to really believe what he says about innovation and the future and that apple can still be real game changers.
I hate to say this but we would not be having this discussion if Steve was still around, its just a fact. He's not so apple now has something to prove.
Yep I did, and it's nothing more than a normal market analysis. Yet DED then tries to tie this to unfavorable news in mainstream media about Apple and innovation and how this document supposedly proves that Samsung is scared of Apple's innovation thus the media was wrong. And to be clear I'm not saying the media was right, there is a lot of Apple bashing articles out there. But the document proves nothing more then that Samsung was focused on beating its largest competitor and as it is a market analysis slide (with some brand recognition) that threat should be interpreted as market share and brand recognition. Not in the way of innovation (and again to be clear I'm not stating Apple isn't an innovative company, it's just that the slide doesn't present this). There is quite some personal opinion and interpretation in this article and should at least have been labeled as an editorial. (not to mention that the article has an undertone of labeling Samsung as nothing but a follower)
They are running scared of Apple because their big "marketshare" is made up of cheap handsets while their high end languishes even though they fool most of the media into portraying the opposite.
Just like Nokia post iPhone, huge marketshare with a dropping average handset price that fell to unsustainable levels.
Meanwhile Apple just keeps ticking along banking most of the money, with real innovation such as 64bit.
Samsung has always been a follower, a follower with Blackberry clones, with Motorola flip phone clones, with Nokia slider phones and of course Apple iPhone clones.
They are running scared of Apple because their big "marketshare" is made up of cheap handsets while their high end languishes even though they fool most of the media into portraying the opposite.
Just like Nokia post iPhone, huge marketshare with a dropping average handset price that fell to unsustainable levels.
Meanwhile Apple just keeps ticking along banking most of the money, with real innovation such as 64bit.
Samsung has always been a follower, a follower with Blackberry clones, with Motorola flip phone clones, with Nokia slider phones and of course Apple iPhone clones.
Did you not see the recent sales rankings? In some cases Samsung was the number 2 and 3 spots. I would hardly call that 'languishing'. They'll probably never outsell Apple except for a month or two out of the year, but they're way ahead of the number 3 manufacturer.
Sadly, cloning has proven extremely profitable. Even more sadly is that those that didn't are teethering on extinction.
If you class this as major evidence then samsung have nothing to worry about.
agreed that this is not major evidence. Samsung watched the market. The iPhone 4s was eating Samsung's lunch. Samsung called a meeting to clarify both the competition and align on a strategy...
If anything it called out the carrier's in their limits in getting Apple to sell anything other than a premium phone, and the carriers then going to Samsung et al, and saying 'we really want cheaper phones to sell, and product exclusivity to compete against other carriers.' And Samsung was then using this to get the Carrier's to carry 20% of the marketing freight. While not wrong, it definitely shows the difference in tactics.
The key line to me is
Quote:
"understand why consumers choose apple, and develop countermeasures at the carrier/retail"
While there may be many slides not shown stating how great Samsung's product is compared to Apple, an ecosystem roadmap that to someone seems compelling and superior, this basically tells me that 'if we sell it right, we can beat Apple, even if we are making crap... we just need to defeat Apple in the minds of customers with words'
They are running scared of Apple because their big "marketshare" is made up of cheap handsets while their high end languishes even though they fool most of the media into portraying the opposite.
Just like Nokia post iPhone, huge marketshare with a dropping average handset price that fell to unsustainable levels.
Meanwhile Apple just keeps ticking along banking most of the money, with real innovation such as 64bit.
Samsung has always been a follower, a follower with Blackberry clones, with Motorola flip phone clones, with Nokia slider phones and of course Apple iPhone clones.
That's pretty well known that most of Samsung's marketshare is cheaper handsets, but hey there is a need for them to.
Quite some of the innovation credit for 64bit needs to go to ARM. It's their AArch64 that makes the A7 64bit, if ARM didn't switch from AArch32 to AArch64 then the A7 wouldn't have been 64bit. Meanwhile Apple does deserve a lot of credit for finishing the chip so early and having the software 64bit ready in such short amount of time, I must say that was quite a feat.
Samsung definitely often is a fast follower but to say they always are is wrong. f.e. Phablet format.
I'm not a Samsung fan either (although I also use Android but my prefered devices are Motorola and Nexus devices) but can't help it to correct things that seem wrong to me
Apple does a great job of *publicly* ignoring competition. Confidence is part of their public image. But it would be foolish of them to actually ignore the competition since great ideas are almost never born in isolation. As his email showed, even SJ was not above taking cues from the competing OS for ways to improve iOS.
I dunno about that. I remember a few times that both Mr. Jobs on stage and Mr. Shiller in twitter posts (think it was twitter anyway) have publicly acknowledged their competition with pointed jabs. That was just Steve Jobs character and part of what the public loved, but I've been a bit surprised by some of Schiller's comments giving attention to Android while sounding more like something we would expect from Ballmer IMO.
What Apple has done a marvelous job with is giving their fans the impression they're above doing market research and surveys, don't pay attention to what the competition is doing, nor do any comparative analysis with competing platforms or handsets to help determine where they might need to improve. They of course do all of those but as you've noted keep it out of the public eye for the most part. I can't think of any company more successful at protecting their public image. A high-profile trial like this makes that job much harder.
Apple watches its top competitors closely, and copies/mimicks/borrows heavily from areas where they are clearly superior.
Samsung copies Apple in doing that too.
I think the only difference in focus and attention the two articles get is that nobody is surprised by Samsung doing it. It is a little like posting 'the sky is blue' as news. Apple got more focus because so many people have a delusional view of Apple and believe it does business by some mythical 'fairy dust' method- so when an internal document shows that Apple does business by watching competitors closely and trying to improve areas where they are behind their competition it is a surprise to some. If many peoples' perception was that the sky is rose colored for Apple, and Apple only, when Apple's internal documents reveal the sky is indeed blue for them too it would make news. Maybe for no other reason than to chide those that insist that the sky is rose colored for Apple. Rather than acknowledge that the sky is, indeed, the same color at Apple as it is everywhere else, which might be a bit of a letdown for the pixie dust believers- why not focus on the tinfoil hat 'media bias' argument. Why does the media focus so much on pointing out that, internally, Apple acknowledges the sky is blue and yet ignore the fact that Samsung also says the sky is blue?! Huh?! Proof of bias!
Expected things aren't news, unexpected things are.
Oh, who am I kidding? It is a secret conspiracy of maniacal Apple haters in the lame-stream media that are trying to bring Apple down!
The key line to me is
While there may be many slides not shown stating how great Samsung's product is compared to Apple, an ecosystem roadmap that to someone seems compelling and superior, this basically tells me that 'if we sell it right, we can beat Apple, even if we are making crap... we just need to defeat Apple in the minds of customers with words'
Defeating the number 1 company is the what advertising has been about since its inception. I don't see anything but decades old if not centuries old business practices.
I'd love it if the court could force Samsung to abandon the Galaxy brand in the US, as it was a brand value created with stolen ideas. Like many mention in other posts, they don't care what fine they have to pay, they've already dug out their market share. If they hadn't copied the iPhone, they'd be in a much worse market share position and Galaxy brand wouldn't mean $hit. Forcing them to rebrand Galaxy would be one of the most fitting, and stinging punishments, in my simple, non-legal, opinion.
To me, one of the biggest differences between the Apple and Samsung memos being revealed are that Apple's state that they want to catchup where they are behind, and leapfrog competition in other areas. Samsung's documents reveal that they want to keep copying Apple and iPhone specifically. Not just catch up, but copy.
Did you not see the recent sales rankings? In some cases Samsung was the number 2 and 3 spots. I would hardly call that 'languishing'. They'll probably never outsell Apple except for a month or two out of the year, but they're way ahead of the number 3 manufacturer.
Sadly, cloning has proven extremely profitable. Even more sadly is that those that didn't are teethering on extinction.
No Samsung are and have been number one for a while, the average amount they are making per handset is falling, they have released notices confirming this in shareholder warnings.
No Samsung are and have been number one for a while, the average amount they are making per handset is falling, they have released notices confirming this in shareholder warnings.
I thought the average for Apple's iPhone has also been falling for a few quarters. Am I mistaken? Could be I guess.
Comments
When a company who has been proven to copy Apple's products and fined in other countries for planting false information about competitors to gain the upper hand, has a marketing plan that is focused entirely on beating a company that according to the media, had already lost to Samsung it telling. You seem pretty willing to ignore Samsung's own words to disagree with DED. Odd?
Ignore Samsung's own words as in what? Them mentioning they want to beat Apple? What kind of company would you be if you didn't want to beat your biggest competitor
. I'm just trying to rationally interpret the document. The only odd thing I see is you apparently not realizing that this is an opinion piece while it clearly is and as such it should be labeled as an editoral. I'm also not a fan of many of Samsung's practices (or a Samsung fan at all for that matter) but I just don't see what DED seems to see in this case, or anything really worth on reporting for that matter (just like was the case with the leaked Apple documents btw).
They got way more attention than they should have. Everyone keeps an eye on what the competition is doing. The difference though is Apple is clearly the leader, top dog, #1 smartphone vendor. You expect those that are not to be more worried about the leader than the leader worried about the follower. Apple does a great job of largely ignoring competition in general, so any change in tone comes across as a surprise to some.
Apple never ignored the competition. The public image is very different than what goes on behind closed doors.
As you stated, Apple is top dog right now and everyone is gunning for them.
Throughout history, we've seen the also rans, bridesmaids, call them what you like, always go after the top dog publicly. They're trying to create their own hype.
Pepsi did it against Coke, Burger King against McDonald's. Samsung's doing it now against Apple. So far they've succeeded in becoming the top Android phone maker. Can they dislodge Apple however? That may prove more difficult that a few billion $$$ more in marketing.
They got way more attention than they should have. Everyone keeps an eye on what the competition is doing. The difference though is Apple is clearly the leader, top dog, #1 smartphone vendor. You expect those that are not to be more worried about the leader than the leader worried about the follower. Apple does a great job of largely ignoring competition in general, so any change in tone comes across as a surprise to some.
Apple does a great job of *publicly* ignoring competition. Confidence is part of their public image. But it would be foolish of them to actually ignore the competition since great ideas are almost never born in isolation. As his email showed, even SJ was not above taking cues from the competing OS for ways to improve iOS.
Apple does a great job of *publicly* ignoring competition. Confidence is part of their public image. It would be foolish of them to actually ignore the competition since great ideas are almost never born out of isolation. As his email showed, even SJ was not above taking cues from the competing OS for ways to improve iOS.
That's exactly what I meant. I have since gone back to reflect that in my post.
Going to weight in on this. I think this is an important topic about the way the media has been able to spin apple as losing its innovation spirit and soon will be come less of a presence in the future of tech I don't believe this)
The fact is Steve is gone. People listened to him. He had the media's ear like Bill gates, Bezos, Page, Dell does etc... The want to hear them talk, they know they built something out of nothing and changed the world. Tim cook is a great CEO, but he did not do this. The media does not think of him the same way, and neither does the public.
Case in point. Do you hear any thing about antenna gate any more? Steve took it an made it a non issue, people listened to him when he talked. They took him @ his word because he already had proven him self. Now that was on a product with one of its primary uses was spun to have a"Flaw".
Now lets talk Maps. I even still do not use maps, even though the few times I did it worked pretty well. I still go to google maps. The letter that TC wrote did not effectively change the message. People did not really care what TC had to say on the issue, it was moot because he does not have the same history as tech "visionaries". In short he hasn't proven that he can change the world like Steve did over and over again.
I think apple as a company is doing incredible. Their devices are great I use them every day. But Tim cook has hard shoes to fill. He needs to change the world for the media/general public to really believe what he says about innovation and the future and that apple can still be real game changers.
I hate to say this but we would not be having this discussion if Steve was still around, its just a fact. He's not so apple now has something to prove.
Yep I did, and it's nothing more than a normal market analysis. Yet DED then tries to tie this to unfavorable news in mainstream media about Apple and innovation and how this document supposedly proves that Samsung is scared of Apple's innovation thus the media was wrong. And to be clear I'm not saying the media was right, there is a lot of Apple bashing articles out there. But the document proves nothing more then that Samsung was focused on beating its largest competitor and as it is a market analysis slide (with some brand recognition) that threat should be interpreted as market share and brand recognition. Not in the way of innovation (and again to be clear I'm not stating Apple isn't an innovative company, it's just that the slide doesn't present this). There is quite some personal opinion and interpretation in this article and should at least have been labeled as an editorial. (not to mention that the article has an undertone of labeling Samsung as nothing but a follower)
They are running scared of Apple because their big "marketshare" is made up of cheap handsets while their high end languishes even though they fool most of the media into portraying the opposite.
Just like Nokia post iPhone, huge marketshare with a dropping average handset price that fell to unsustainable levels.
Meanwhile Apple just keeps ticking along banking most of the money, with real innovation such as 64bit.
Samsung has always been a follower, a follower with Blackberry clones, with Motorola flip phone clones, with Nokia slider phones and of course Apple iPhone clones.
Did you not see the recent sales rankings? In some cases Samsung was the number 2 and 3 spots. I would hardly call that 'languishing'. They'll probably never outsell Apple except for a month or two out of the year, but they're way ahead of the number 3 manufacturer.
Sadly, cloning has proven extremely profitable. Even more sadly is that those that didn't are teethering on extinction.
If you class this as major evidence then samsung have nothing to worry about.
agreed that this is not major evidence. Samsung watched the market. The iPhone 4s was eating Samsung's lunch. Samsung called a meeting to clarify both the competition and align on a strategy...
If anything it called out the carrier's in their limits in getting Apple to sell anything other than a premium phone, and the carriers then going to Samsung et al, and saying 'we really want cheaper phones to sell, and product exclusivity to compete against other carriers.' And Samsung was then using this to get the Carrier's to carry 20% of the marketing freight. While not wrong, it definitely shows the difference in tactics.
The key line to me is
"understand why consumers choose apple, and develop countermeasures at the carrier/retail"
While there may be many slides not shown stating how great Samsung's product is compared to Apple, an ecosystem roadmap that to someone seems compelling and superior, this basically tells me that 'if we sell it right, we can beat Apple, even if we are making crap... we just need to defeat Apple in the minds of customers with words'
They are running scared of Apple because their big "marketshare" is made up of cheap handsets while their high end languishes even though they fool most of the media into portraying the opposite.
Just like Nokia post iPhone, huge marketshare with a dropping average handset price that fell to unsustainable levels.
Meanwhile Apple just keeps ticking along banking most of the money, with real innovation such as 64bit.
Samsung has always been a follower, a follower with Blackberry clones, with Motorola flip phone clones, with Nokia slider phones and of course Apple iPhone clones.
That's pretty well known that most of Samsung's marketshare is cheaper handsets, but hey there is a need for them to.
Quite some of the innovation credit for 64bit needs to go to ARM. It's their AArch64 that makes the A7 64bit, if ARM didn't switch from AArch32 to AArch64 then the A7 wouldn't have been 64bit. Meanwhile Apple does deserve a lot of credit for finishing the chip so early and having the software 64bit ready in such short amount of time, I must say that was quite a feat.
Samsung definitely often is a fast follower but to say they always are is wrong. f.e. Phablet format.
I'm not a Samsung fan either (although I also use Android but my prefered devices are Motorola and Nexus devices) but can't help it to correct things that seem wrong to me
See, if someone already quoted your post, it doesn’t matter that you edited it.
I dunno about that. I remember a few times that both Mr. Jobs on stage and Mr. Shiller in twitter posts (think it was twitter anyway) have publicly acknowledged their competition with pointed jabs. That was just Steve Jobs character and part of what the public loved, but I've been a bit surprised by some of Schiller's comments giving attention to Android while sounding more like something we would expect from Ballmer IMO.
What Apple has done a marvelous job with is giving their fans the impression they're above doing market research and surveys, don't pay attention to what the competition is doing, nor do any comparative analysis with competing platforms or handsets to help determine where they might need to improve. They of course do all of those but as you've noted keep it out of the public eye for the most part. I can't think of any company more successful at protecting their public image. A high-profile trial like this makes that job much harder.
These documents again show Samsung copying Apple.
Apple watches its top competitors closely, and copies/mimicks/borrows heavily from areas where they are clearly superior.
Samsung copies Apple in doing that too.
I think the only difference in focus and attention the two articles get is that nobody is surprised by Samsung doing it. It is a little like posting 'the sky is blue' as news. Apple got more focus because so many people have a delusional view of Apple and believe it does business by some mythical 'fairy dust' method- so when an internal document shows that Apple does business by watching competitors closely and trying to improve areas where they are behind their competition it is a surprise to some. If many peoples' perception was that the sky is rose colored for Apple, and Apple only, when Apple's internal documents reveal the sky is indeed blue for them too it would make news. Maybe for no other reason than to chide those that insist that the sky is rose colored for Apple. Rather than acknowledge that the sky is, indeed, the same color at Apple as it is everywhere else, which might be a bit of a letdown for the pixie dust believers- why not focus on the tinfoil hat 'media bias' argument. Why does the media focus so much on pointing out that, internally, Apple acknowledges the sky is blue and yet ignore the fact that Samsung also says the sky is blue?! Huh?! Proof of bias!
Expected things aren't news, unexpected things are.
Oh, who am I kidding? It is a secret conspiracy of maniacal Apple haters in the lame-stream media that are trying to bring Apple down!
Defeating the number 1 company is the what advertising has been about since its inception. I don't see anything but decades old if not centuries old business practices.
Whats "non-upgradeable" about android? And what phone do you have?
Spare us.
Comparing recent flagship models:
Galaxy S3 - released May 2012, still awaiting official update to the current Android 4.4 KitKat.
iPhone 4S - released Oct 2011, officially updatable to the current iOS 7.1
iPhone 5 - released Oct 2012, officially updatable to the current iOS 7.1.
To me, one of the biggest differences between the Apple and Samsung memos being revealed are that Apple's state that they want to catchup where they are behind, and leapfrog competition in other areas. Samsung's documents reveal that they want to keep copying Apple and iPhone specifically. Not just catch up, but copy.
Did you not see the recent sales rankings? In some cases Samsung was the number 2 and 3 spots. I would hardly call that 'languishing'. They'll probably never outsell Apple except for a month or two out of the year, but they're way ahead of the number 3 manufacturer.
Sadly, cloning has proven extremely profitable. Even more sadly is that those that didn't are teethering on extinction.
No Samsung are and have been number one for a while, the average amount they are making per handset is falling, they have released notices confirming this in shareholder warnings.
I thought the average for Apple's iPhone has also been falling for a few quarters. Am I mistaken? Could be I guess.
EDIT: Nope, I'm not mistaken.