Yet another Apple doc reveal, this time results of an Apple survey of iPhone 5 buyers a couple years back. When asked "what one thing would you add to or change about the iPhone" they said:
The difference is Apple can say no or test the feasibility of the results and combine into one phone if tech permits. Sammy will create different product line for each answer.
Steve Jobs specifically said: "We do no market research."
March of 2008. It's a sound-bite world and that's the sound-bite. How do you think he hoped for that to be perceived? Probably just the way a lot of folks did, literally. Of course it's not actually true, but Mr. Jobs was a marketing genius and knew how to work a crowd. Apple presentations and interviews will never be the same without him.
Schiller was just as misleading if not more so in his testimony from 2012's trial IMO as shown by documents revealed in this latest case.
He testified under oath "We don't use any customer surveys, focus groups, or typical things of that nature. That plays no role in the creation of the products."
He then went on to say "you never ask people 'what features do you want in a new product". Again misleading if not downright dishonest since Apple certainly asks what buyers would like to see done differently on the iPhone as shown in documents from the latest trial.
You do realize new products and revised products are two different things. Show me a focus group study for the original iPod, iPhone, iPad.
Show me a focus group study for the original iPod, iPhone, iPad.
How about a survey of what current iPhone buyers would like to have in an iPhone model? Good enough? Neither Schiller nor Jobs qualified their statements to only apply to new product lines. The impression given, and I believe by intent, was that Apple doesn't particularly care what buyers think they want. Of course that would mean asking current owners what they'd like to see changed for the next model is just fluff to make them feel like their opinions are important to Apple, but Apple really doesn't see them that way. Can't imagine that's the way Apple really thinks.
How about a survey of what current iPhone buyers would like to have in an iPhone model? Good enough? Neither Schiller nor Jobs qualified their statements to only apply to new product lines. The impression given, and I believe by intent, was that Apple doesn't particularly care what buyers think they want. Of course that would mean asking current owners what they'd like to see changed for the next model is just fluff to make them feel like their opinions are important to Apple, but Apple really doesn't see them that way. Can't imagine that's the way Apple really thinks.
Customers don't know what they want in new products but they always want to improve an existing product line. That's what I take it to mean. Apple probably takes these surveys with a grain of salt. More info should the tech permit.
Given your intelligence, I would have figured you’d try harder than this.
Try harder than this.
I'm guessing you may not have read before posting again? You seemed to have missed some important information like, um, what surveyed group's opinions "stem from a lack of intelligence" as you wrote? Hint: Early iPhone 5 buyers.
Customers don't know what they want in new products but they always want to improve an existing product line. That's what I take it to mean.
That's not what Jobs and Schiller said. Surprised you too don't see the comments as somewhat misleading, particularly Schiller's since it was under oath. Perhaps that's why the Apple attorneys cut him short and moved on to some other witnesses that day? He avoided making similar comments the following day when Apple put him back on the stand to be questioned by both them and Samsung. He also handled the question about a Apple internal document concerning observations from the tear-down of a Galaxy phone really well, just saying he wasn't at all familiar with it so he couldn't testify about it.
Going to weight in on this. I think this is an important topic about the way the media has been able to spin apple as losing its innovation spirit and soon will be come less of a presence in the future of tech I don't believe this)
The fact is Steve is gone. People listened to him. He had the media's ear like Bill gates, Bezos, Page, Dell does etc... The want to hear them talk, they know they built something out of nothing and changed the world. Tim cook is a great CEO, but he did not do this. The media does not think of him the same way, and neither does the public.
Case in point. Do you hear any thing about antenna gate any more? Steve took it an made it a non issue, people listened to him when he talked. They took him @ his word because he already had proven him self. Now that was on a product with one of its primary uses was spun to have a"Flaw".
Now lets talk Maps. I even still do not use maps, even though the few times I did it worked pretty well. I still go to google maps. The letter that TC wrote did not effectively change the message. People did not really care what TC had to say on the issue, it was moot because he does not have the same history as tech "visionaries". In short he hasn't proven that he can change the world like Steve did over and over again.
I think apple as a company is doing incredible. Their devices are great I use them every day. But Tim cook has hard shoes to fill. He needs to change the world for the media/general public to really believe what he says about innovation and the future and that apple can still be real game changers.
I hate to say this but we would not be having this discussion if Steve was still around, its just a fact. He's not so apple now has something to prove.
Yes, let's talk Maps. The problem with Maps was much more complex than the problem with the iPhone 4 antenna, and so the solution was not going to come in one fell swoop. Tim Cook took decisive action, firing Forstall and since has made great strides in improving map data and rendering and also map capabilities, more of which you will see under iOS 8 in two months. The result of the entire Maps effort has been that Apple Maps has greatly supplanted Google Maps on iOS devices. That could not have been done without strong leadership, which came from Cook down.
Look- not sure what response you think you're going to get from "Appleinsider" on which phone you should get. And likely, someone coming in with those questions is just trolling. But I'll bite, pretend you aren't- and I'll just say this:
You want Android? Cool. Go for it. But don't get a Samsung. Are they the best Android phones out there? Arguably. Are they the most despicable company that I would never support? Absolutely.
Go buy an HTC, LG, Windows Phone, iPhone- whatever you like best. But don't buy a Samsung. How many theft cases, infringement cases, immoral paid advertising cases (including paid commenters in forums), etc. does one have to see before they finally don't send money to these crooks.
So your answer? iPhone. Of course, I'm biased. If I had to pick a phone other than the iPhone? I go with the new Windows Phone. Then I go with the HTC one. I'd rather have a pager from Motorola then buy a Samsung phone.
If you're buying an iPhone, you're supporting Samsung. A large number of internals are made by Samsung of which Samsung makes a lot of profit on. But I guess morality goes out the windows as long as the logo isn't present on the final product.
If you're buying an iPhone, you're supporting Samsung. A large number of internals are made by Samsung of which Samsung makes a lot of profit on. But I guess morality goes out the windows as long as the logo isn't present on the final product.
That comment does get kind of old. BTW there's no longer "a large number of internals" made by Samsung. Apple has been slowly whittling it down for a few years now.
Yet another Apple doc reveal, this time results of an Apple survey of iPhone 5 buyers a couple years back. When asked "what one thing would you add to or change about the iPhone" they said:
So I bet Apple, with the iPhone 6 and iOS 8, addresses,
Yes to 1. Longer battery life
Yes to 2. Improve built-in Maps
Yes to 3. Bigger screen
No to 4. Unhappy with switch to lightning
No to 5. Ability to customize the look and function of phone
Yes to 6. Improve Siri functionality
Yes to 7. More durable/less fragile
Those categories where I've indicated Yes may not, in all cases, result in satisfying every customer who made the associated request, but nevertheless I think the iPhone will improve to some extent in each of those categories.
So I bet Apple, with the iPhone 6 and iOS 8, addresses,
Yes to 1. Longer battery life
Yes to 2. Improve built-in Maps
Yes to 3. Bigger screen
No to 4. Unhappy with switch to lightning
No to 5. Ability to customize the look and function of phone
Yes to 6. Improve Siri functionality
Yes to 7. More durable/less fragile
Those categories where I've indicated Yes may not, in all cases, result in satisfying every customer who made the associated request, but nevertheless I think the iPhone will improve to some extent in each of those categories.
I'm guessing you may not have read before posting again? You seemed to have missed some important information like, um, what surveyed group's opinions "stem from a lack of intelligence" as you wrote? Hint: Early iPhone 5 buyers.
Yeah, there’s a reason I didn’t talk about it the first time you brought it up: it’s not at all relevant to what you said.
Hey man, no troll here. I am considering switching, but I never had an Iphone. I assume someone on AI would know about Iphones lol. I might just get both use 5s for communication and Note 3 for entertainment.
You'd be better off buying a 5s for "communication" and an iPad Mini for entertainment. Bigger & Better screen, faster- essentially better statistically in every way- and you'd save about $300 also.
Again- as disgusting as Samsung is at business- I, personally, wouldn't support them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat
Those categories where I've indicated Yes may not, in all cases, result in satisfying every customer who made the associated request, but nevertheless I think the iPhone will improve to some extent in each of those categories.
Exactly. And Apple has already addressed quite a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Given that the rest of the items on the list stem from a lack of intelligence…
Here is what we should examine:
1. Battery Life. Is this not a constant improvement Apple tries to build on every year?
2. Improve Maps. Locationary, HopStop, Embark, BroadMap. Obviously, Apple feels this is top priority and they should improve their mapping too considering these companies were acquired within the past 9 months.
3. Bigger screen. I'm an Apple homer- you know that. That's my number one want on my list. I doubt I'm alone in this.
4. Lightning- people bitching because they don't know better. Lightning is the future- people need to deal. I agree- dumb.
5. Customize Look/Function. Yawn. How long have we heard this? I agree- dumb.
6. Improve Siri. Again- with the purchase of Novauris and Cue- it's looking like Apple is also interested in improving this substantially.
7. More durable/less fragile. No thanks. This is the dumbest of the list.
So 2 are proven high importance items to Apple via acquisition. Battery life is a no brainer. And Bigger screen- depending on where you fall. Lets just call that neutral. So 3 dumb and 3 that are proven extremely important to Apple doesn't mean "The rest of the list"
March of 2008. It's a sound-bite world and that's the sound-bite. How do you think he hoped for that to be perceived? Probably just the way a lot of folks did, literally. Of course it's not actually true, but Mr. Jobs was a marketing genius and knew how to work a crowd. Apple presentations and interviews will never be the same without him.
Schiller was just as misleading if not more so in his testimony from 2012's trial IMO as shown by documents revealed in this latest case.
He testified under oath "We don't use any customer surveys, focus groups, or typical things of that nature. That plays no role in the creation of the products."
He then went on to say "you never ask people 'what features do you want in a new product". Again misleading if not downright dishonest since Apple certainly asks what buyers would like to see done differently on the iPhone as shown in documents from the latest trial.
'understand why consumers buy Apple and develop countermeasures by carrier/retailer'
In other words understand why customers buy IPhones, and as we cannot replicate this, bribe carriers and retailers to push our products onto customers instead.
Hey man, no troll here. I am considering switching, but I never had an Iphone. I assume someone on AI would know about Iphones lol. I might just get both use 5s for communication and Note 3 for entertainment.
I don't think you'll find the Note 3 very entertaining, Brandon. Frustrating and inadequate, yes, but entertaining, no.
Thanks for the link, an excellent read by the way.
I wasn't at all confused by Jobs quote tho. I recognized what he was actually saying. while at the same time understanding he knows what a sound-bite is and how his words would probably be taken. You link shows much the same misunderstanding by some entrepreneurs and start-ups with all they recall seeing was "We do not do market research". Good enough for Apple so good enough for them too, which may not be helpful.
How about a survey of what current iPhone buyers would like to have in an iPhone model? Good enough? Neither Schiller nor Jobs qualified their statements to only apply to new product lines. The impression given, and I believe by intent, was that Apple doesn't particularly care what buyers think they want. Of course that would mean asking current owners what they'd like to see changed for the next model is just fluff to make them feel like their opinions are important to Apple, but Apple really doesn't see them that way. Can't imagine that's the way Apple really thinks.
It's a big organisation. Those quick questionnaires probably have no influence on johnny Ives design strategy. And you can often ignore what people think they want. Everybody is going to say battery life, but I routinely with heavy enough usage plug in at night at about 20%. I bet most people don't run out. So what good is another 10%? Would people notice, would they tell their friends? Would word of mouth of a 10% increase in battery life see the iPhone 6 sell vastly more? I doubt it. And one of the other requests is customisation. Apple will ignore that. They probably were intending to improve maps. They aren't going to go back to the 32 pin. They probably are going to go to a larger screen. There is nothing there which will change strategy.
What Apple - and the industry - means by focus groups is not questionnaires but watching people use the beta software. Or beta hardware. And revising. That they don't do.
DED, this must be one of the most subjective interpretations of what is a normal market analysis PowerPoint ever. The slide is nothing more than that, every company will have slides like this (including Apple). And then such wording as 'Samsung's response to the innovative threat it saw in Apple's continually improving and strongly profitable..,' while the slide says nothing about Apple's innovation to be the threat (to be clear I'm not stating that Apple isn't an innovative company). This is clearly a slide about market analysis and brand recognition thus the threat is most likely Apple's market share and its iconic brand recognition.
One of your most desperate attempts to vilify of late I must say. I'm not a Samsung supporter but this seems to be a case of trying to get something out of nothing by loose and subjective interpretation.
P.s.: a company that wants to beat its biggest competitor, shocking!
YOU sound desperate. This is not subjective when you compared with ALL OTHER shenanigans Samsung pulled over since launch of the iPhone in 2007. Do your research
Comments
The difference is Apple can say no or test the feasibility of the results and combine into one phone if tech permits. Sammy will create different product line for each answer.
You do realize new products and revised products are two different things. Show me a focus group study for the original iPod, iPhone, iPad.
How about a survey of what current iPhone buyers would like to have in an iPhone model? Good enough? Neither Schiller nor Jobs qualified their statements to only apply to new product lines. The impression given, and I believe by intent, was that Apple doesn't particularly care what buyers think they want. Of course that would mean asking current owners what they'd like to see changed for the next model is just fluff to make them feel like their opinions are important to Apple, but Apple really doesn't see them that way. Can't imagine that's the way Apple really thinks.
Customers don't know what they want in new products but they always want to improve an existing product line. That's what I take it to mean. Apple probably takes these surveys with a grain of salt. More info should the tech permit.
Given your intelligence, I would have figured you’d try harder than this.
Try harder than this.
I'm guessing you may not have read before posting again? You seemed to have missed some important information like, um, what surveyed group's opinions "stem from a lack of intelligence" as you wrote? Hint: Early iPhone 5 buyers.
That's not what Jobs and Schiller said. Surprised you too don't see the comments as somewhat misleading, particularly Schiller's since it was under oath. Perhaps that's why the Apple attorneys cut him short and moved on to some other witnesses that day? He avoided making similar comments the following day when Apple put him back on the stand to be questioned by both them and Samsung. He also handled the question about a Apple internal document concerning observations from the tear-down of a Galaxy phone really well, just saying he wasn't at all familiar with it so he couldn't testify about it.
Going to weight in on this. I think this is an important topic about the way the media has been able to spin apple as losing its innovation spirit and soon will be come less of a presence in the future of tech I don't believe this)
The fact is Steve is gone. People listened to him. He had the media's ear like Bill gates, Bezos, Page, Dell does etc... The want to hear them talk, they know they built something out of nothing and changed the world. Tim cook is a great CEO, but he did not do this. The media does not think of him the same way, and neither does the public.
Case in point. Do you hear any thing about antenna gate any more? Steve took it an made it a non issue, people listened to him when he talked. They took him @ his word because he already had proven him self. Now that was on a product with one of its primary uses was spun to have a"Flaw".
Now lets talk Maps. I even still do not use maps, even though the few times I did it worked pretty well. I still go to google maps. The letter that TC wrote did not effectively change the message. People did not really care what TC had to say on the issue, it was moot because he does not have the same history as tech "visionaries". In short he hasn't proven that he can change the world like Steve did over and over again.
I think apple as a company is doing incredible. Their devices are great I use them every day. But Tim cook has hard shoes to fill. He needs to change the world for the media/general public to really believe what he says about innovation and the future and that apple can still be real game changers.
I hate to say this but we would not be having this discussion if Steve was still around, its just a fact. He's not so apple now has something to prove.
Yes, let's talk Maps. The problem with Maps was much more complex than the problem with the iPhone 4 antenna, and so the solution was not going to come in one fell swoop. Tim Cook took decisive action, firing Forstall and since has made great strides in improving map data and rendering and also map capabilities, more of which you will see under iOS 8 in two months. The result of the entire Maps effort has been that Apple Maps has greatly supplanted Google Maps on iOS devices. That could not have been done without strong leadership, which came from Cook down.
Look- not sure what response you think you're going to get from "Appleinsider" on which phone you should get. And likely, someone coming in with those questions is just trolling. But I'll bite, pretend you aren't- and I'll just say this:
You want Android? Cool. Go for it. But don't get a Samsung. Are they the best Android phones out there? Arguably. Are they the most despicable company that I would never support? Absolutely.
Go buy an HTC, LG, Windows Phone, iPhone- whatever you like best. But don't buy a Samsung. How many theft cases, infringement cases, immoral paid advertising cases (including paid commenters in forums), etc. does one have to see before they finally don't send money to these crooks.
So your answer? iPhone. Of course, I'm biased. If I had to pick a phone other than the iPhone? I go with the new Windows Phone. Then I go with the HTC one. I'd rather have a pager from Motorola then buy a Samsung phone.
If you're buying an iPhone, you're supporting Samsung. A large number of internals are made by Samsung of which Samsung makes a lot of profit on. But I guess morality goes out the windows as long as the logo isn't present on the final product.
That comment does get kind of old. BTW there's no longer "a large number of internals" made by Samsung. Apple has been slowly whittling it down for a few years now.
Yet another Apple doc reveal, this time results of an Apple survey of iPhone 5 buyers a couple years back. When asked "what one thing would you add to or change about the iPhone" they said:
So I bet Apple, with the iPhone 6 and iOS 8, addresses,
Yes to 1. Longer battery life
Yes to 2. Improve built-in Maps
Yes to 3. Bigger screen
No to 4. Unhappy with switch to lightning
No to 5. Ability to customize the look and function of phone
Yes to 6. Improve Siri functionality
Yes to 7. More durable/less fragile
Those categories where I've indicated Yes may not, in all cases, result in satisfying every customer who made the associated request, but nevertheless I think the iPhone will improve to some extent in each of those categories.
Yeah, there’s a reason I didn’t talk about it the first time you brought it up: it’s not at all relevant to what you said.
Hey man, no troll here. I am considering switching, but I never had an Iphone. I assume someone on AI would know about Iphones lol. I might just get both use 5s for communication and Note 3 for entertainment.
You'd be better off buying a 5s for "communication" and an iPad Mini for entertainment. Bigger & Better screen, faster- essentially better statistically in every way- and you'd save about $300 also.
Again- as disgusting as Samsung is at business- I, personally, wouldn't support them.
Those categories where I've indicated Yes may not, in all cases, result in satisfying every customer who made the associated request, but nevertheless I think the iPhone will improve to some extent in each of those categories.
Exactly. And Apple has already addressed quite a bit.
Given that the rest of the items on the list stem from a lack of intelligence…
Here is what we should examine:
1. Battery Life. Is this not a constant improvement Apple tries to build on every year?
2. Improve Maps. Locationary, HopStop, Embark, BroadMap. Obviously, Apple feels this is top priority and they should improve their mapping too considering these companies were acquired within the past 9 months.
3. Bigger screen. I'm an Apple homer- you know that. That's my number one want on my list. I doubt I'm alone in this.
4. Lightning- people bitching because they don't know better. Lightning is the future- people need to deal. I agree- dumb.
5. Customize Look/Function. Yawn. How long have we heard this? I agree- dumb.
6. Improve Siri. Again- with the purchase of Novauris and Cue- it's looking like Apple is also interested in improving this substantially.
7. More durable/less fragile. No thanks. This is the dumbest of the list.
So 2 are proven high importance items to Apple via acquisition. Battery life is a no brainer. And Bigger screen- depending on where you fall. Lets just call that neutral. So 3 dumb and 3 that are proven extremely important to Apple doesn't mean "The rest of the list"
Steve Jobs specifically said:
"We do no market research."
March of 2008. It's a sound-bite world and that's the sound-bite. How do you think he hoped for that to be perceived? Probably just the way a lot of folks did, literally. Of course it's not actually true, but Mr. Jobs was a marketing genius and knew how to work a crowd. Apple presentations and interviews will never be the same without him.
Schiller was just as misleading if not more so in his testimony from 2012's trial IMO as shown by documents revealed in this latest case.
He testified under oath "We don't use any customer surveys, focus groups, or typical things of that nature. That plays no role in the creation of the products."
He then went on to say "you never ask people 'what features do you want in a new product". Again misleading if not downright dishonest since Apple certainly asks what buyers would like to see done differently on the iPhone as shown in documents from the latest trial.
This may help you:
http://mvctest.com/the-steve-jobs-research-quote-should-rest-in-peace/
Cue up the "out of context" and "what SJ meant was" comments.
zzzzzzzzz...predictable. Here you go...just what you wanted.
http://mvctest.com/the-steve-jobs-research-quote-should-rest-in-peace/
In other words understand why customers buy IPhones, and as we cannot replicate this, bribe carriers and retailers to push our products onto customers instead.
Hey man, no troll here. I am considering switching, but I never had an Iphone. I assume someone on AI would know about Iphones lol. I might just get both use 5s for communication and Note 3 for entertainment.
I don't think you'll find the Note 3 very entertaining, Brandon. Frustrating and inadequate, yes, but entertaining, no.
I wasn't at all confused by Jobs quote tho. I recognized what he was actually saying. while at the same time understanding he knows what a sound-bite is and how his words would probably be taken. You link shows much the same misunderstanding by some entrepreneurs and start-ups with all they recall seeing was "We do not do market research". Good enough for Apple so good enough for them too, which may not be helpful.
It's a big organisation. Those quick questionnaires probably have no influence on johnny Ives design strategy. And you can often ignore what people think they want. Everybody is going to say battery life, but I routinely with heavy enough usage plug in at night at about 20%. I bet most people don't run out. So what good is another 10%? Would people notice, would they tell their friends? Would word of mouth of a 10% increase in battery life see the iPhone 6 sell vastly more? I doubt it. And one of the other requests is customisation. Apple will ignore that. They probably were intending to improve maps. They aren't going to go back to the 32 pin. They probably are going to go to a larger screen. There is nothing there which will change strategy.
What Apple - and the industry - means by focus groups is not questionnaires but watching people use the beta software. Or beta hardware. And revising. That they don't do.
DED, this must be one of the most subjective interpretations of what is a normal market analysis PowerPoint ever. The slide is nothing more than that, every company will have slides like this (including Apple). And then such wording as 'Samsung's response to the innovative threat it saw in Apple's continually improving and strongly profitable..,' while the slide says nothing about Apple's innovation to be the threat (to be clear I'm not stating that Apple isn't an innovative company). This is clearly a slide about market analysis and brand recognition thus the threat is most likely Apple's market share and its iconic brand recognition.
One of your most desperate attempts to vilify of late I must say. I'm not a Samsung supporter but this seems to be a case of trying to get something out of nothing by loose and subjective interpretation.
P.s.: a company that wants to beat its biggest competitor, shocking!
YOU sound desperate. This is not subjective when you compared with ALL OTHER shenanigans Samsung pulled over since launch of the iPhone in 2007. Do your research