Microsoft taps into Apple's Passbook, adds support in Windows Phone 8.1 [u]



  • Reply 21 of 52
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,758member
    This always has been Microsoft's secret to success. Reverse engineer Apple's IP. :D Hopefully this time Apple said it was OK.
  • Reply 22 of 52
    solipsismx wrote: »
    In no way is WinPh8 having to trick anything made by Apple into thinking that it's an Apple product, like with Palm's attempt to making it think their devices were iPods.

    I wasn't suggesting anything of that nature. How did you get that from my post? I know it is about adopting Apple's file format.
  • Reply 23 of 52
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I wasn't suggesting anything of that nature. How did you get that from my post? I know it is about adopting Apple's file format.

    My bad. I thought your implication was that MS was sidestepping Apple's IP in much the same way it tried to add a YouTube video app without paying Google for the privilege.
  • Reply 24 of 52
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I guess that depends. Take airline tickets. They wouldn't need to put anything in the passbook files that isn't already in the emails you would normally get. Gift cards and things that it would matter usually come via a secured connection to an application. The data shouldn't need to be secured in the format handed by the app to passbook if it was secure getting to the app and secure in the passbook storage. Encrypting them would actually be a challenge given the various sources of the content. Signatures and validating the source would be a much better thing so you don't get spoofed content coming into your wallet/passbook.

    I can see a couple ways Apple could implement this.

    The first being a secured compressed file format which would means that you need to setup or being given a passcode/PIN by the app or website giving you the PassCode pass. Once you receive the pass you are prompted.

    The other is Apple creates their own compressed file format with security that can use a token that can then be shared to the app or website when they package and send you your PassBook passes. When you receive your PassBook app would not need any additional authentication.

    The final method is simply using the same system they have now but having all of them go through Apple's servers, not via email, with AES much like iMessages are secured on a per-device basis.

    In each of these I see way too much trouble for the effort and since PassBook passes aren't going to be a profit center for Apple in and of themselves I don't think we'll hear a word from Apple.
  • Reply 25 of 52
    emesemes Posts: 239member

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

    In no way is WinPh8 having to trick anything made by Apple into thinking that it's an Apple product, like with Palm's attempt to making it think their devices were iPods.

    WinPh8? It's usually spelled WP8, or in this case WP8.1

  • Reply 26 of 52
    dshandshan Posts: 53member
    I guess this is as legal as Apple (and every other WP software maker on earth) reverse-engineering Word's .doc document format for their products. Unlike .docx MS never published the specs for .doc, it was a purely proprietary file format that had to be reverse-engineered by competitors if they wanted to stay in business.

    At the end of the day as long as MS can prove they did a completely clean reverse-engineering job (no ex-Apple employees, internals documentation or other sources of inside knowledge, etc.) on the Passbook format they should be okay legally.
  • Reply 27 of 52
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    emes wrote: »
    WinPh8? It's usually spelled WP8, or in this case WP8.1

    I'm a rebel? :\

  • Reply 28 of 52
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    andysol wrote: »
    And iMessage & Facetime.  Facetime now has Skype Support.

    Those would make me happy- only because they would make Android sad.

    Oh yes. Apple should "share" this tech with MS just to say "eff off" to Android.
  • Reply 29 of 52
    emesemes Posts: 239member

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

    I'm a rebel? image

    I suppose you are

  • Reply 30 of 52
    jmncljmncl Posts: 42member
    There's no reverse engineering here, Apple publishes all the specs in their _public_ site, doesn't even need a developer account.

    I'm sure if they wanted to keep this secret or proprietary they would not have used this format, for example they'd have it encrypted instead of just signed.

    Some wallet apps on Android have also been able to use .pkpass files for a long time, the only new thing is it being integrated into the OS.
  • Reply 31 of 52
    jmncljmncl Posts: 42member

    Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post


    This all seems insecure, shouldn't the Passbook 'payload' be encrypted?!  I would have to look at the technical specifics to learn more, anyone have a good overview link handy?  


    Just like websites and email, you encrypt the transport not the payload.

  • Reply 32 of 52
    clexmanclexman Posts: 209member
    Nothing different than iWork apps opening MS Office files.

    This is good news. It will lead to greater adoption of Passbook.
  • Reply 33 of 52
    macslutmacslut Posts: 514member

    Originally Posted by DarelRex View Post

    "In a back-and-forth battle, Palm continued to find new exploits, while Apple continued to patch them."

    Actually, Apple made just one little change: iTunes now asks the device via a low-level USB query, "what company made you?" If the device replies with anything but "Apple", then iTunes aborts the sync. After Apple did that, Palm issued an update that made the Pre reply "I'm from Apple," then Palm and Apple each complained to the USB standards body that the other company should be made to stop doing what it was doing. The body ruled for Apple, and that was the end of all third-party attempts to sync with iTunes.

    However, Apple did have a long, crack-and-patch battle with Real over their "Harmony" bypass of FairPlay %u2014 which eventually turned into a long lawsuit.


    Just to be clear, anyone could fairly easily develop an app that syncs a device with an iTunes library (minus FairPlay), using iTunes to sync a device has been pretty well locked down.

  • Reply 34 of 52
    macslutmacslut Posts: 514member

    I see this as a potentially good thing, if it gets more support for Passbook.

  • Reply 35 of 52
    darelrexdarelrex Posts: 138member

    Yes; even back when Palm was trying to do this, Apple had a feature in iTunes called "Export Library" that creates an XML file containing detailed information about your entire music collection, playlists, file locations on your hard drive, etc. Anybody who wants to write an app that will read that XML file can do so. Palm didn't want to write their own app -- they wanted people to download iTunes for free from Apple, then use it with the Palm Pre phone.

  • Reply 36 of 52
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    I agree with this. And really, is this Microsoft who was famous for NIH (not invented here) syndrome, adopting an Apple format this early in the game? I'm shocked! ;)

    Microsoft is well known for its "embrace and extend" method of capturing, changing, and then ruining open standards so that they're Microsoft-only "standards". Not invented here syndrome is more Apple than Microsoft (have you seen the mice? Granted, changing iOS to look like android and windows metro was really a crazy reversal of this).

    Yes, it would be nice to see only one standard here, but it's always a throw of the dice to see how all the players let it shake out over time. Corporate entities like free stuff, because it saves them development costs, and they love pro-reverse-engineering-for-compatibility law, but they hate obedience to any authority that's not themselves and they hate customers having choices beyond the one they present to customers.
  • Reply 37 of 52
    mechanicmechanic Posts: 805member

    A while back it was revealed during the first samsung/apple court case that Microsoft and Apple agreed to a patent cross-licensing agreement with anti-cloning stipulations (that microsoft would not copy apples hardware) this may be part of that agreement.


  • Reply 38 of 52

    Could be a mutual agreement with MS adding MS Office to the App store. "You let us sell Office in your store and we both profit, and you let us use Passbook and some of your other technology in WinMo phones and we'll give it a wider audience, make more businesses want to use it, and piss of Android users/Google/Samsung."


    Not like MS and Apple have never worked together in the past.

  • Reply 39 of 52

     Apple got it right and we want more support for this in world. Microsoft should pay Apple a license to allow Passbook on Windows Phone. The eight people that use it would appreciate it.


    Is that why it's called Windows Phone 8?

  • Reply 40 of 52
    This seems like a big change. Microsoft adopting an Apple standard, cause they have zero sway in the mobile space. I'm used to Apple having to adopt, things like office compatibility, working with a windows network.. Now Windows has to adopt, haha!
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