<strong>I don't think they would have dropped the price to $2999 unless the G5 was going to be out within a few months and they could have a killer machine for $3499 again.
There is no way Apple can raise the price back up above $2999 until the G4 is gone. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Good point. I agree that's an almost definite sign of things to come.
It might also be that Apple will have three lines of computers, and that they're prepping the G4's to be the middle line with a middle price point. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
These Powermacs are clearly the last gasp of the Powermac G4s. The lack of mobo changes is striking, it's as if Apple doesn't want to commit too many resources to this update because an entire new mobo, for a new CPU, is on the way.
Also significant is the price decrease. Way to go, Apple. It wasn't much but at least it's changing in the right direction.
I think now the soonest we will see G5s is MWNY. I'm surprised but this is moto we are talking about, so I shouldn't be.
<strong>And I'm sure people close to an Apple store could walk in and pick one up this week... </strong><hr></blockquote>
Probably someone has already noted this, but KidRed apparently did just what you said and is, at this moment setting up his Dualie GHz beast...er...animal...er...
Just kidding, KR. It's a much better machine that what I've got so more power to ya. Hope you get a lot of mileage out of it.
What evidence is there that the G5 is in the near future, less then 12 months? I don't see any, other than G5 comes after G4. If apple really wanted to use the G5 as a great marketing tool they would use 64bit versions and make a 64bit version of OSX. They would also have to get their developers on board.
heres my guess
1) WWDC G5 and 64bit OSX announce
2) MWNY or shortly after another speed bump for G4
The memory controllers only support 128 and 256Mb chips. That means up to 8 256Mb chips equal about 256MB. 8 chips on either side would equal out to 512MB; the maximum DIMM a PowerMac can take... unless you get double stacked (32chips per DIMM) 1GB RAM chips but I don't think you have room for those monsters.
Since these new machines apparently have the Apollo in them, that could be another sign that G4's are on their way out.
Isn't the Apollo a better portable chip? If so, Apple may have stuck it in these machines simply because the Apollo has scaled easier than the last G4, the G5 isn't ready for primetime, and the PowerMacs badly needed an update.
I think:
1) Powerbooks will get the 7455 in Tokyo, running at 733Mhz and 867Mhz
2) iBooks will be updated in New York with an Apollo from 667 to 733Mhz
3) G5's will come in New York with chips starting at 933Mhz going up to...oh, 1.4Ghz or so.
Isn't the Apollo a better portable chip? If so, Apple may have stuck it in these machines simply because the Apollo has scaled easier than the last G4, the G5 isn't ready for primetime, and the PowerMacs badly needed an update.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
the 7445 is a "portable" chip. the 7455 is a "desktop" chip.
The G4 is still scheduled for a die shrink so who knows what will happen
The comments by moki that two mobos (one with DDR and one without) were in development for this current G4 are rather specious.
No matter what happened he would have been right bolstering his position of being in the "know" in regards to Apple hardware.
You will always be right by hedging both ways. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> This is a good stategy for playin' craps, but not for predicting future Apple technology.
[Second part ]
As for the staunch position regarding no G5 till next year I doubt it. The new G4s are nice, but still way behind the times. ATA/66 is pathetic as is PC133 RAM. ATA/100 at least should have been added to the controller.
Whether or not pros add SCSI or RAID is not the point, the OS still runs off the default HD unless you totally upgrade out of the box. OS X is very disk-heavy especially with its modular design.
DDR Ram is substantially cheaper now than it ever was (even early last year). It would be a good move to advance on the memory subsystem in the G4 for mindshare, but is not the magic bullet everyone thinks it will be for performance.
If you cut in half the latency of main memory access, that's still only a small part of the overall time any given computation takes. Say a process uses main memory 30% of its execution time. Cutting that in half is only 15% of the execution time or 85% of the original overall time. Big whoop.
Still it would be a perceptual advance that would silence many naysayers as has the GHz barrier being finally breached.
Apple desperately needs a massive overhaul to the pro-desktop in terms of processor raw power and I/O features. Its simply a matter of Apple feeling its losing ground in its own user base as the time to act.
The other 95% may come over just for OS X and put up with fewer buzzword technologies, but won't stay for long. They will demand substantial upgrades after being "hooked" to the Mac platform via OS X.
Keep the faith. The newest G4s are stimply stop gaps till the second half of the year, moki be damned.
Just a quick reminder to y'all about latency and bandwidth. With DDR, both latency and bandwidth will increase, meaning that it's not all good news. DDR is only good when the mobo is bandwidth limited, as even the dual 533's appeared to be when running well written altivec code. For an excellent explanation of this stuff, head over to <a href="http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=3360953743"; target="_blank">this</a> at Ars.
If you know him, please suggest to him his son shouldn't be writing letters to rumor sites <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
know him? baby, i am him. <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
don't worry bout the boy, i took care of him <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Comments
<strong>I don't think they would have dropped the price to $2999 unless the G5 was going to be out within a few months and they could have a killer machine for $3499 again.
There is no way Apple can raise the price back up above $2999 until the G4 is gone. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Good point. I agree that's an almost definite sign of things to come.
It might also be that Apple will have three lines of computers, and that they're prepping the G4's to be the middle line with a middle price point. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
These Powermacs are clearly the last gasp of the Powermac G4s. The lack of mobo changes is striking, it's as if Apple doesn't want to commit too many resources to this update because an entire new mobo, for a new CPU, is on the way.
Also significant is the price decrease. Way to go, Apple. It wasn't much but at least it's changing in the right direction.
I think now the soonest we will see G5s is MWNY. I'm surprised but this is moto we are talking about, so I shouldn't be.
<strong>And I'm sure people close to an Apple store could walk in and pick one up this week...
Probably someone has already noted this, but KidRed apparently did just what you said and is, at this moment setting up his Dualie GHz beast...er...animal...er...
Just kidding, KR. It's a much better machine that what I've got so more power to ya. Hope you get a lot of mileage out of it.
<strong>Looks to me like their sources are the 7-year old son of the janitor at infinite loop.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's custodian dick.
... man, I'm saying that more and more often...
heres my guess
1) WWDC G5 and 64bit OSX announce
2) MWNY or shortly after another speed bump for G4
3) MWSF G5 or shortly after
G-News
Isn't the Apollo a better portable chip? If so, Apple may have stuck it in these machines simply because the Apollo has scaled easier than the last G4, the G5 isn't ready for primetime, and the PowerMacs badly needed an update.
I think:
1) Powerbooks will get the 7455 in Tokyo, running at 733Mhz and 867Mhz
2) iBooks will be updated in New York with an Apollo from 667 to 733Mhz
3) G5's will come in New York with chips starting at 933Mhz going up to...oh, 1.4Ghz or so.
Sounds like something Apple would do.
<strong>
Isn't the Apollo a better portable chip? If so, Apple may have stuck it in these machines simply because the Apollo has scaled easier than the last G4, the G5 isn't ready for primetime, and the PowerMacs badly needed an update.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
the 7445 is a "portable" chip. the 7455 is a "desktop" chip.
The G4 is still scheduled for a die shrink so who knows what will happen
The comments by moki that two mobos (one with DDR and one without) were in development for this current G4 are rather specious.
No matter what happened he would have been right bolstering his position of being in the "know" in regards to Apple hardware.
You will always be right by hedging both ways. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> This is a good stategy for playin' craps, but not for predicting future Apple technology.
[Second part
As for the staunch position regarding no G5 till next year I doubt it. The new G4s are nice, but still way behind the times. ATA/66 is pathetic as is PC133 RAM. ATA/100 at least should have been added to the controller.
Whether or not pros add SCSI or RAID is not the point, the OS still runs off the default HD unless you totally upgrade out of the box. OS X is very disk-heavy especially with its modular design.
DDR Ram is substantially cheaper now than it ever was (even early last year). It would be a good move to advance on the memory subsystem in the G4 for mindshare, but is not the magic bullet everyone thinks it will be for performance.
If you cut in half the latency of main memory access, that's still only a small part of the overall time any given computation takes. Say a process uses main memory 30% of its execution time. Cutting that in half is only 15% of the execution time or 85% of the original overall time. Big whoop.
Still it would be a perceptual advance that would silence many naysayers as has the GHz barrier being finally breached.
Apple desperately needs a massive overhaul to the pro-desktop in terms of processor raw power and I/O features. Its simply a matter of Apple feeling its losing ground in its own user base as the time to act.
The other 95% may come over just for OS X and put up with fewer buzzword technologies, but won't stay for long. They will demand substantial upgrades after being "hooked" to the Mac platform via OS X.
Keep the faith. The newest G4s are stimply stop gaps till the second half of the year, moki be damned.
<strong>
If you know him, please suggest to him his son shouldn't be writing letters to rumor sites <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
know him? baby, i am him. <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
don't worry bout the boy, i took care of him <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />