In what way does Google cause harm to Apple? By creating an OS originally intended to protect them from Microsoft's plans? Seriously? Yeah, Apple seems to be pretty hurt by it. And you thought I was being ignorant?
Apple's search plans have little to do with Google IMHO and more to do with a recognition there's a bunch of money they can make with one, just as there's been with music and apps and other services outside of hardware sales. They're smart to diversify.
Your opinion may be humble, but it's completely wrong. You need to ignore a mountain of evidence to maintain it.
Love how AppleInsider keeps peddling this ridiculous, tired lie. The product wans't disastrous- it was the media's reaction to it, who were desperate to hang Apple by any thread that they could find, helped by all the anti-Apple shills- and sites like yours truly, who just went along with it. The cover photo for Apple "disastrous" maps was a broken 3D view for a location that was identical in Google maps and STILL hasn't been fixed in Google maps years later. Just think about that for a second, that should give you enough insight as to the honesty of the whole manufactured "disaster". Apple maps wasn't perfect at launch, nor is it now, nor is any mapping service on the planet (I still see a TON of mistakes with Google maps). But the reaction was laughable in its lack of objectivity, and AppleInsider cowardly follows the dishonest narrative that was set by those with an anti-Apple agenda, as if it was a fact.
When the CEO of one of the world's richest companies is forced to issue a public, written apology and suggest alternatives to his own product, it's a disaster. Warranted or not, it's still a disaster.
My beta.icload.com use Google maps not Apple one. Tried even the same location and on picture. As of maps improvements it may be true for US or some other areas but I was trying to find address in Apple maps last week and it was one big disaster here in the middle of Europe. One and half mile away. And satellite imagery is blurry and gray here. Or color and even more blur yet. On German border there is magic and everything is OK.
It's not a secret, Apple (Steve Jobs) was furious about Android and saw a ton of Apple ideas simply stolen. You might agree or not, but the competitiveness between the two companies started to really evolve there.
If I'm not mistaken, the Google Maps app was one of the things that escalated the situation a bit. Mapping on a device means LOTS of information. For Apple that's a selling point "We keep your information private! We only use it to increase the product experience.". For Google information is also used to make the product better, but also to generate more advertising money.
So Apple and Google clashed over the fact, how much data Google should get from the iPhone Maps app. So Steve - pragmatic as he was - decided to do mapping inhouse, keep total control over the user experience and avoid the need to deal with a "rival".
Apple was and is hurting Google A LOT by doing this! But I'm not sure they do this only to hurt Google. More to keep control over the app itself AND avoid future pressure from Google ("hey, you still want a great maps app on your iPhone, you better give us more user data"!).
Apple is about total control over the user experience. They are NOT risking that.
A word about Scott: I'm sure the maps start wasn't the sole reason to fire him. But might have been the last nail in his coffin. It's known that he was hard to deal with and Apple was having internal problems (I think Scott and Phil couldn't be in the same room without Steve to control them both). Tim simply didn't want to play the puppet-master. He cut the cords.
A word about Apple Maps quality: It still isn't as good as Google Maps in some areas, but it never has been a real problem for me. Most of the shortcomings have been largly exaggerated. And I see it improving a lot over the years.
When the CEO of one of the world's richest companies is forced to issue a public, written apology and suggest alternatives to his own product, it's a disaster. Warranted or not, it's still a disaster.
Thats my point. The apology was the best PR move in his opinion, it does not mean that the criticism that led to it was honest, balanced, objective, or justified. It was utterly out of control, and media was exploiting the "disastrous" maps to to push their "see, Apple is doomed without Steve Jobs" narrative as much as humanly possible. Yes, the situation was a disaster because of people's dishonesty, not because the product itself was a disaster. The Letter is irrelevant. That was Cook's way of dealing with it.
Eric Schmidt: "Hey Larry, did you hear that Microsoft is going to launch a new mobile operating system?"
Larry Page: "Really? That will cut into Apples iOS shares- quick! Let's develop Android to protect Apple from Microsoft's plans!"
iPad / Nexus Apple TV / Google TV & Chromecast & Android TV & Nexus Q & whatever else they throw out every 6 months App Store & iTunes / Google Play iWork & iWork in the Cloud / Google Docs iCloud Drive / Google Drive Siri / Google Voice Maps / Google Maps Safari / Chrome Healthbook / Google Fit Passbook / Google Wallet Homekit / Nest
Go away.
What I believe he was referring to was Microsoft edging into search and possibly edging google out with future releases of windows mobile. At the time windows mobile was the only third party smart phone OS. Google feared not being relevant on mobile and knew they needed to have a space they could control.
“Google gives way”, and yet you’re using Chrome. Really?
The headline is changed. Happy?
Really I can see a very practical use for Apple to have a dedicated Maps website here, maybe Apple doesn't see it but I do and many others like me. Lots of people work in offices that use PCs. For many PC users, Chrome is the best browser for the Windows platform. Regardless of browser though a dedicated URL for Apple Maps is a sure-fire way to get more crowdsourced data and another way to get more Non-Apple Users into their platform.
Eric Schmidt: "Hey Larry, did you hear that Microsoft is going to launch a new mobile operating system?"
Larry Page: "Really? That will cut into Apples iOS shares- quick! Let's develop Android to protect Apple from Microsoft's plans!"
iPad / Nexus Apple TV / Google TV & Chromecast & Android TV & Nexus Q & whatever else they throw out every 6 months App Store & iTunes / Google Play iWork & iWork in the Cloud / Google Docs iCloud Drive / Google Drive Siri / Google Voice Maps / Google Maps Safari / Chrome Healthbook / Google Fit Passbook / Google Wallet Homekit / Nest
Go away.
Nexus devices are used to introduce new versions of Android and not intended as sales successes, particularly not iPhone competition. But you knew that.
Yeah Google wants in on the living room just as Apple does just as Microsoft does
Yeah App stores are needed to support mobile OS's
Google Docs came before iWork in the Cloud. Well before. But you knew that.
Google Voice came before Siri. Perhaps you intended a different comparison.
Google Maps came long before Apple Maps.But you knew that too.
Apple has no interest in Safari on any platform other than Apple's own. Chrome was the answer to IE and Microsoft
Google Fit no doubt inspired by Healthbook IMO.
Google Wallet announced long before Passbook. But you knew that as well.
Homekit likely Apple's answer to Nest.
Google is NOT the one declaring war nor making any effort to hurt Apple in my opinion. I don't think Google is even capable of hurting Apple. How would they do that and why would they even want to?
Nexus devices are used to introduce new versions of Android and not intended as sales successes, particularly not iPhone competition. But you knew that.
Yeah Google wants in on the living room just as Apple does just as Microsoft does
Yeah App stores are needed to support mobile OS's
Google Docs came before iWork in the Cloud. Well before. But you knew that.
Google Voice came before Siri. Perhaps you intended a different comparison.
Google Maps came long before Apple Maps.But you knew that too.
Apple has no interest in Safari on any platform other than Apple's own. Chrome was the answer to IE and Microsoft
Google Fit no doubt inspired by Healthbook IMO.
Google Wallet announced long before Passbook. But you knew that as well.
Homekit likely Apple's answer to Nest.
Google is NOT the one declaring war nor making any effort to hurt Apple in my opinion. I don't think Google is even capable of hurting Apple. How would they do that and why would they even want to?
You're the one who said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Google's business model doesn't really overlap Apple's and vice-versa.
I was simply giving you a detailed list of how Google and Apple are in direct competition on several fronts- regardless of who was first- and that their businesses overlap in a multitude of ways. You said they didn't.
If you can't see that they do overlap, then you really are pathetic.
Perhaps the "vice-versa" wasn't entirely accurate. Apple is getting heavier into cloud services, ads, and search which are all important parts of Google's business plan. Guess they're now part of Apple's plans too. So yes I can see why you'd see it as Apple at war with Google, tho I still don't think Google's plans include war with Apple.
Love how AppleInsider keeps peddling this ridiculous, tired lie. The product wans't disastrous- it was the media's reaction to it, who were desperate to hang Apple by any thread that they could find, helped by all the anti-Apple shills- and sites like yours truly, who just went along with it. The cover photo for Apple "disastrous" maps was a broken 3D view for a location that was identical in Google maps and STILL hasn't been fixed in Google maps years later. Just think about that for a second, that should give you enough insight as to the honesty of the whole manufactured "disaster". Apple maps wasn't perfect at launch, nor is it now, nor is any mapping service on the planet (I still see a TON of mistakes with Google maps). But the reaction was laughable in its lack of objectivity, and AppleInsider cowardly follows the dishonest narrative that was set by those with an anti-Apple agenda, as if it was a fact.
The media's reaction to it was undoubtedly stoked by mismanaged expectations. Apple's biggest mistake was boasting their product as "The Most Powerful" mapping solution when they should have labeled it a beta, especially since the media had an established incumbent for comparison. The higher you raise expectations, the more critically you will be judged.
Perhaps the "vice-versa" wasn't entirely accurate. Apple is getting heavier into cloud services, ads, and search which are all important parts of Google's business plan. Guess they're now part of Apple's plans too. So yes I can see why you'd see it as Apple at war with Google, tho I still don't think Google's plans include war with Apple.
At least you can admit you were wrong on half of what you said. Now for the admission of the other half-
True or false:
Google wants iOS users to be Android users
True or false:
Google wants people to purchase through Google Play vs iTunes
True or false:
Google wants to be in your living room instead of Apple
True or false:
Google bought a streaming music service a month after Apple bought a streaming music service
In what way does Google cause harm to Apple? By creating an OS originally intended to protect them from Microsoft's plans? Seriously? Yeah, Apple seems to be pretty hurt by it. And you thought I was being ignorant?
Apple's search plans have little to do with Google IMHO and more to do with a recognition there's a bunch of money they can make with one, just as there's been with music and apps and other services outside of hardware sales. They're smart to diversify.
As I recall, Google held back turn by turn navigation on iOS. It is only natural that Apple decided to roll their own if vendors don't want to play ball.
Google gave in later but it is great that Apple continue its map platform. Their goals are different, and their solution may diverge too.
On German border there is magic and everything is OK.
Except for Street View, which Germany doesn't have, safe for the large cities that is:
"was scrutinized for its privacy after pictures showed up of random people picking their nose, taking a dump behind a tree, or any other types of incriminating shots"
As I recall, Google held back turn by turn navigation on iOS. It is only natural that Apple decided to roll their own if vendor's don't want to play ball.
No one involved has said how that worked. Some stories say Google was willing to offer TBT but wanted something additional in return. Mentioned was branding as Google Maps for iOS which Apple resisted. Giving Google anymore credit than was absolutely necessary wasn't in Apple's interest at the moment. Google also wanted better sharing of the data Apple was collecting and storing on its users thru Google Maps use, again a supposed issue between the two. Both sides were digging in their heels and neither willing to budge as far as I can tell. So TBT was offered to Apple and its users but not under terms Apple liked as the story goes.
No one involved has said how that worked. Some stories say Google was willing to offer TBT but wanted something additional in return. Mentioned was branding as Google Maps for iOS which Apple resisted. Giving Google anymore credit than was absolutely necessary wasn't in Apple's interest at the moment. Google also wanted better sharing of the data Apple was collecting and storing on its users thru Google Maps use, again a supposed issue between the two. Both sides were digging in their heels and neither willing to budge as far as I can tell. So TBT was offered to Apple and its users but not under terms Apple liked as the story goes.
The terms don't matter to us.
Google Maps was gimped on iOS intentionally. As the platform owner, Apple will have to provide an alternative that fits its own vision. Whether Google agrees or not is not so relevant.
Comments
In what way does Google cause harm to Apple? By creating an OS originally intended to protect them from Microsoft's plans? Seriously? Yeah, Apple seems to be pretty hurt by it. And you thought I was being ignorant?
Apple's search plans have little to do with Google IMHO and more to do with a recognition there's a bunch of money they can make with one, just as there's been with music and apps and other services outside of hardware sales. They're smart to diversify.
Your opinion may be humble, but it's completely wrong. You need to ignore a mountain of evidence to maintain it.
Love how AppleInsider keeps peddling this ridiculous, tired lie. The product wans't disastrous- it was the media's reaction to it, who were desperate to hang Apple by any thread that they could find, helped by all the anti-Apple shills- and sites like yours truly, who just went along with it. The cover photo for Apple "disastrous" maps was a broken 3D view for a location that was identical in Google maps and STILL hasn't been fixed in Google maps years later. Just think about that for a second, that should give you enough insight as to the honesty of the whole manufactured "disaster". Apple maps wasn't perfect at launch, nor is it now, nor is any mapping service on the planet (I still see a TON of mistakes with Google maps). But the reaction was laughable in its lack of objectivity, and AppleInsider cowardly follows the dishonest narrative that was set by those with an anti-Apple agenda, as if it was a fact.
When the CEO of one of the world's richest companies is forced to issue a public, written apology and suggest alternatives to his own product, it's a disaster. Warranted or not, it's still a disaster.
As of maps improvements it may be true for US or some other areas but I was trying to find address in Apple maps last week and it was one big disaster here in the middle of Europe. One and half mile away.
And satellite imagery is blurry and gray here. Or color and even more blur yet. On German border there is magic and everything is OK.
It's not a secret, Apple (Steve Jobs) was furious about Android and saw a ton of Apple ideas simply stolen. You might agree or not, but the competitiveness between the two companies started to really evolve there.
If I'm not mistaken, the Google Maps app was one of the things that escalated the situation a bit. Mapping on a device means LOTS of information. For Apple that's a selling point "We keep your information private! We only use it to increase the product experience.". For Google information is also used to make the product better, but also to generate more advertising money.
So Apple and Google clashed over the fact, how much data Google should get from the iPhone Maps app. So Steve - pragmatic as he was - decided to do mapping inhouse, keep total control over the user experience and avoid the need to deal with a "rival".
Apple was and is hurting Google A LOT by doing this! But I'm not sure they do this only to hurt Google. More to keep control over the app itself AND avoid future pressure from Google ("hey, you still want a great maps app on your iPhone, you better give us more user data"!).
Apple is about total control over the user experience. They are NOT risking that.
A word about Scott: I'm sure the maps start wasn't the sole reason to fire him. But might have been the last nail in his coffin. It's known that he was hard to deal with and Apple was having internal problems (I think Scott and Phil couldn't be in the same room without Steve to control them both). Tim simply didn't want to play the puppet-master. He cut the cords.
A word about Apple Maps quality: It still isn't as good as Google Maps in some areas, but it never has been a real problem for me. Most of the shortcomings have been largly exaggerated. And I see it improving a lot over the years.
When the CEO of one of the world's richest companies is forced to issue a public, written apology and suggest alternatives to his own product, it's a disaster. Warranted or not, it's still a disaster.
Thats my point. The apology was the best PR move in his opinion, it does not mean that the criticism that led to it was honest, balanced, objective, or justified. It was utterly out of control, and media was exploiting the "disastrous" maps to to push their "see, Apple is doomed without Steve Jobs" narrative as much as humanly possible. Yes, the situation was a disaster because of people's dishonesty, not because the product itself was a disaster. The Letter is irrelevant. That was Cook's way of dealing with it.
What I believe he was referring to was Microsoft edging into search and possibly edging google out with future releases of windows mobile. At the time windows mobile was the only third party smart phone OS. Google feared not being relevant on mobile and knew they needed to have a space they could control.
“Google gives way”, and yet you’re using Chrome. Really?
The headline is changed. Happy?
Really I can see a very practical use for Apple to have a dedicated Maps website here, maybe Apple doesn't see it but I do and many others like me. Lots of people work in offices that use PCs. For many PC users, Chrome is the best browser for the Windows platform. Regardless of browser though a dedicated URL for Apple Maps is a sure-fire way to get more crowdsourced data and another way to get more Non-Apple Users into their platform.
Nexus devices are used to introduce new versions of Android and not intended as sales successes, particularly not iPhone competition. But you knew that.
Yeah Google wants in on the living room just as Apple does just as Microsoft does
Yeah App stores are needed to support mobile OS's
Google Docs came before iWork in the Cloud. Well before. But you knew that.
Google Voice came before Siri. Perhaps you intended a different comparison.
Google Maps came long before Apple Maps.But you knew that too.
Apple has no interest in Safari on any platform other than Apple's own. Chrome was the answer to IE and Microsoft
Google Fit no doubt inspired by Healthbook IMO.
Google Wallet announced long before Passbook. But you knew that as well.
Homekit likely Apple's answer to Nest.
Google is NOT the one declaring war nor making any effort to hurt Apple in my opinion. I don't think Google is even capable of hurting Apple. How would they do that and why would they even want to?
Just checked:
http://i.imgur.com/HVwXUzL.png
I just went to the beta site and it is still using Google Maps, for me at least.
Nexus devices are used to introduce new versions of Android and not intended as sales successes, particularly not iPhone competition. But you knew that.
Yeah Google wants in on the living room just as Apple does just as Microsoft does
Yeah App stores are needed to support mobile OS's
Google Docs came before iWork in the Cloud. Well before. But you knew that.
Google Voice came before Siri. Perhaps you intended a different comparison.
Google Maps came long before Apple Maps.But you knew that too.
Apple has no interest in Safari on any platform other than Apple's own. Chrome was the answer to IE and Microsoft
Google Fit no doubt inspired by Healthbook IMO.
Google Wallet announced long before Passbook. But you knew that as well.
Homekit likely Apple's answer to Nest.
Google is NOT the one declaring war nor making any effort to hurt Apple in my opinion. I don't think Google is even capable of hurting Apple. How would they do that and why would they even want to?
You're the one who said this:
Google's business model doesn't really overlap Apple's and vice-versa.
Perhaps the "vice-versa" wasn't entirely accurate. Apple is getting heavier into cloud services, ads, and search which are all important parts of Google's business plan. Guess they're now part of Apple's plans too. So yes I can see why you'd see it as Apple at war with Google, tho I still don't think Google's plans include war with Apple.
Love how AppleInsider keeps peddling this ridiculous, tired lie. The product wans't disastrous- it was the media's reaction to it, who were desperate to hang Apple by any thread that they could find, helped by all the anti-Apple shills- and sites like yours truly, who just went along with it. The cover photo for Apple "disastrous" maps was a broken 3D view for a location that was identical in Google maps and STILL hasn't been fixed in Google maps years later. Just think about that for a second, that should give you enough insight as to the honesty of the whole manufactured "disaster". Apple maps wasn't perfect at launch, nor is it now, nor is any mapping service on the planet (I still see a TON of mistakes with Google maps). But the reaction was laughable in its lack of objectivity, and AppleInsider cowardly follows the dishonest narrative that was set by those with an anti-Apple agenda, as if it was a fact.
The media's reaction to it was undoubtedly stoked by mismanaged expectations. Apple's biggest mistake was boasting their product as "The Most Powerful" mapping solution when they should have labeled it a beta, especially since the media had an established incumbent for comparison. The higher you raise expectations, the more critically you will be judged.
Perhaps the "vice-versa" wasn't entirely accurate. Apple is getting heavier into cloud services, ads, and search which are all important parts of Google's business plan. Guess they're now part of Apple's plans too. So yes I can see why you'd see it as Apple at war with Google, tho I still don't think Google's plans include war with Apple.
At least you can admit you were wrong on half of what you said. Now for the admission of the other half-
True or false:
Google wants iOS users to be Android users
True or false:
Google wants people to purchase through Google Play vs iTunes
True or false:
Google wants to be in your living room instead of Apple
True or false:
Google bought a streaming music service a month after Apple bought a streaming music service
Do I need to continue? You're clueless.
As I recall, Google held back turn by turn navigation on iOS. It is only natural that Apple decided to roll their own if vendors don't want to play ball.
Google gave in later but it is great that Apple continue its map platform. Their goals are different, and their solution may diverge too.
Except for Street View, which Germany doesn't have, safe for the large cities that is:
"was scrutinized for its privacy after pictures showed up of random people picking their nose, taking a dump behind a tree, or any other types of incriminating shots"
http://techland.time.com/2011/04/11/alas-there-will-be-no-more-google-street-view-in-germany/
No one involved has said how that worked. Some stories say Google was willing to offer TBT but wanted something additional in return. Mentioned was branding as Google Maps for iOS which Apple resisted. Giving Google anymore credit than was absolutely necessary wasn't in Apple's interest at the moment. Google also wanted better sharing of the data Apple was collecting and storing on its users thru Google Maps use, again a supposed issue between the two. Both sides were digging in their heels and neither willing to budge as far as I can tell. So TBT was offered to Apple and its users but not under terms Apple liked as the story goes.
The terms don't matter to us.
Google Maps was gimped on iOS intentionally. As the platform owner, Apple will have to provide an alternative that fits its own vision. Whether Google agrees or not is not so relevant.