Bose files lawsuit against Apple's Beats over noise canceling tech

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 94
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    sog35 wrote: »
    Neither Bose or Beats are premium.
    Hardly speakers/headphones/subwoofers are premium if you can find it at Best Buy
    I recently went looking for headphones at Best Buy and all they has were Beats over the ear crap and Skullcandy. I ended up getting a pair of Sennheiser's at Office Depot!
  • Reply 42 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Neither Bose or Beats are premium.

    Hardly speakers/headphones/subwoofers are premium if you can find it at Best Buy


    B.O.S.E. = Bunch Of Shitty Equipment

  • Reply 43 of 94
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    B.O.S.E. = Bunch Of Shitty Equipment
    Best thing about Bose headphones is their noise canceling technology.
  • Reply 44 of 94
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,428member
    Bose stock is privately held mostly by M.I.T. now I believe. So one has to assume M.I.T. are going to have some input here.
  • Reply 45 of 94
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,636member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Neither Bose or Beats are premium.

    Hardly speakers/headphones/subwoofers are premium if you can find it at Best Buy


     

    Most, if not all, of the major name brands you find at Best Buy are special models made for that demographic. Klipsch does the same thing. You would never find their Reference line in Best Buy but you find a cheaper version that has the Klipsch logo on it.  Same goes for HDTVs from Sharp, Samsung, etc. Check the specs and model numbers and compare with the high end audio/video stores and you immediately see the difference.

  • Reply 46 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boredumb View Post

    The curious thing is that Bose didn't wait until the deal was done, if you wanted to assume the deeper-pockets rationale.

    Perhaps it's that Bose wants to scotch that deal and interpose themselves in a partnership with Apple?

     

    Problem with that. If they announce they are buying in May, then paperwork and signatures are being put on paperwork, or has already. The months following are the ironing out different things. It's like getting a quote to have work done. When you sign the quote you are saying let's move forward with this. So in May, the day after, hell even today or tomorrow, if Apple backs out, then whatever clause they have in "cancelling" section will take effect.

     

    So, basically YES, bose waited until Apple started the buying process. THEN put in the lawsuit. IF bose patents are actually technical not general, then Apple will prob settle out of court, or maybe even Beats will before full take over. BUT if they are general, then I see Apple going to court and having their little patents voided. I mean general ones usual do when courts are concerned. Hell, I can patent AIR, but if I sue someone for breathing, and go to court, it's a general and will be thrown out.

     

    Apple prob had their tech teams looking into this right now to see if it is technical aspects or general aspects.

     

     

  • Reply 47 of 94
    ktappektappe Posts: 808member
    I'm missing something with regard to Bose waiting to file. Multiple people have said "that's normal." But in other threads about patent suits, people regularly defend them by saying "you have to defend your IP or you'll lose them." This implies that if you wait or don't sue, then the defendant can petition the court "it must not have been that important to them; look how they sat on their heels." How does that not apply here? Can't Beats tell the court "they waited 10 years to sue; toss this out"?
  • Reply 48 of 94
    red oakred oak Posts: 907member
    Well, no more Bose purchases for me. And, I've bought several in the past including LifeStyle 535 and SoundTouch 20

    What strikes me is how awful these products are. My LifeStyle535, their top-of-the-line TV surround system, does not even have WiFi built in. Crazy. And my SoundTouch came with the absolute worst Mac app I've ever used. The company is incapable of doing software

    Bose is in a very bad place. And suing what is effectively Apple is going to make things even worse for them
  • Reply 49 of 94
    _rick_v__rick_v_ Posts: 142member

    Friends don't let friend buy Bose.

     

    I too once was sucked into their sexy tiny Accustimass 10 series IV home theater system.  After getting tired of watching movies with subtitles on (because they have no mid-range frequency-- like where all the voice dialog is), that's when I started doing a bit of research and found out what a joke they are.

     

    I sold the whole thing on Craigslist and bought a real system, and never looked back.

     

    Do yourself a favor, and avoid Bose.  (At least their speakers, don't know about their headphones).

  • Reply 50 of 94
    _rick_v__rick_v_ Posts: 142member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

     

    Perhaps your ears are better at picking up variations in deep bass sounds than mine, but I find it extremely difficult to tell apart a (decent) $400 v. $4000 subwoofer.


     

    I bet you could.

     

    The difference is (as another poster pointed out) is mainly how much volume (room size) you need to fill.  A under-sized subwoofer will be over-driven on low notes (like that rumbling sound effect that can be frequently heard in action movies), that results in the voice coil literally knocking the limits of its travel range.  Instead of a nice smooth rumble, it sounds more like a farting noise.

     

    The movie Gravity is what convinced me to finally upgrade my Definitive Technology SuperCube 8" to a 12" sub.  I do not listen to movies at a high-volume either, but the difference is like night and day.

  • Reply 52 of 94
    boredumbboredumb Posts: 1,418member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boredumb View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Masteric View Post



    Beats has been around for how long? They wait until Apple is in the process of buying Beats to sue?

    The curious thing is that Bose didn't wait until the deal was done, if you wanted to assume the deeper-pockets rationale.

    Perhaps it's that Bose wants to scotch that deal and interpose themselves in a partnership with Apple?


     

    The acquisition will be closed before this is settled. Bose will get in those deep pockets sooner or later.


    Unless you know for certain that Apple couldn't back out of the deal if this made them want to...

    then you haven't really altered my point, have you?

  • Reply 53 of 94
    boredumbboredumb Posts: 1,418member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HawkBlade View Post



    Problem with that. If they announce they are buying in May, then paperwork and signatures are being put on paperwork, or has already. The months following are the ironing out different things...

    …problem with that, if they say the deal is finalized in September, then it isn't final in July, and if something happens in July

    to make you reconsider what you thought you'd want to do in April…well, then.

    Not sure why it's so hard to accept that possibility - deals fall apart all the time, for both big and small reasons - in this case, the possibility of

    doom for your intended acquisition.

  • Reply 54 of 94
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Masteric View Post



    Beats has been around for how long? They wait until Apple is in the process of buying Beats to sue?



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

     

    Agreed. Bose is hoping for an easy settlement from someone with deep pockets.


     

    I think you guys put exactly zero thought into this, because it's ridiculous. Either company can afford the payout, but which do you think retains a better legal team? It's more likely that they want to enact this against Beats rather than face litigation with Apple.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

     

    Apple needs to have some kind of clause in the contract, that Beats is liable for all copyright infringements and any other lawsuits that might happen, relating to all Beats operations and products before the date that Apple officially buys them.


    There is no such thing if they are absorbing this company. I don't think they will retain Beats as a wholly owned subsidiary. In buying the company they gain both its assets and liabilities. Now if this company is absorbed, who do you think would pay this? Beyond that who would pay for the perpetual licensing costs if applicable?

  • Reply 55 of 94
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,602member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post

     

    Noise cancellation is a relatively straight-forward concept, and has been taught in physics classes and used for decades in numerous applications -- well before Bose entered the consumer headphone market.

     

    Beats is a material threat to Bose because in only a few years, they've taken over the higher priced headphone market that Bose used to lead in revenue share. Bose is now trying to kneecap their most formidable competitor and take the competing headphone business down several notches.

     


     

    While I won't pretend to know Bose's specific patented implementation, noise-cancellation is usually done by having a microphone pick up the ambient noise and then feeding that signal out of phase into the headphone.    The actual noise and the inverted noise cancel each other out.   The only thing special and unique is how you process the signal coming through the microphone to match the sound of the noise heard through the pads of the headphones.   

     

    This technique was used by the Grateful Dead decades ago in order to up the volume of live concerts without feedback.   In their case, they used two microphones wired out of phase with each other.   If you spoke close to the primary microphone, the signal came through but the ambient noise that came through both microphones (one out of phase) cancelled the feedback or any other background noise.    

     

    If you take a stereo recording, take the stereo output and reverse the phase of one channel and then combine it into mono, everything that's mono on the stereo recording will disappear, usually low bass and most of the vocals except for the stereo echo return.     Same principle.  

     

    So there's definitely prior art out there.

     

    While Beats has become very large, I wonder if they've really taken substantial share away from Bose's high-end customers or whether they've really created a new market for themselves, since they appeal most to people who listen to rap/hip-hop who I suspect weren't big buyers of Bose' high-end noise-cancelling phones.    

     

    As for the timing of the lawsuit, Bose could have made a mistake - they probably should have waited until the deal closed if their intent was to sue the party with the deeper pockets.   Even though Apple's due diligence period is probably over, if the deal hasn't been signed, there could still be adjustments made or there could have been indemnification built into the original deal.   There usually is, but at best, Apple comes out even if they lose and that's if they don't have to take any of Beats' headphones off of the market. 

  • Reply 56 of 94
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post



    Lol... This is sooooo funny.

    All these years no action.( if there is any validity to their claim to start with )



    But as soon as Apple shows up Bose gets into action.



    Bose: "lets see if we can deep our toes in some if apples cash? Woohaha ha "



    Pathetic and a very wrong PR move !

     

    There is nothing to gain by suing a company with no money. They are doing the right thing for their stockholders at this time. Besides, Apple may simply settle once Beats is in the fold. However, Apple should further negotiate the company sale price down accordingly until it hurts.

  • Reply 57 of 94
    ronboronbo Posts: 669member

    I don't have a problem to this in theory, but the timing is definitely asinine. Beats has been stealing Bose technology and doing well in the marketplace... but it wasn't worth suing until it was owned by Apple. That just reeks of poor form, IMHO.

  • Reply 58 of 94
    georgeip5georgeip5 Posts: 225member
    Apple has worked with Boss in the past I hope that they can resolve this quickly and if not, buy boss! They have more experience than beats, I guess.
  • Reply 59 of 94
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     

     

    Apple could always turn around and decide to buy Bose, Klipsch, Polk, Audio Research, JBL, Audio Technica and others in the future... 

     

     


     

    I doubt any of those have any forward thinking technology or assets worth owning to Apple.  Beats, for better or worse, did.

  • Reply 60 of 94
    mubailimubaili Posts: 445member
    I was at 5th ave Apple Store this afternoon. There are tons of Bose speakers and headphones at display and for sell. Had Bose done a channel check to see how many Bose speakers and headphone Apple move before they filed the law suit?
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