Stupid question here. It looks like the whole NFC payment system is a near certainty. My wife is not interested in a larger phone screen. Is there any thought that the 5s or c could get a bump to include the NFC tech?
I know Apple never does anything like that because they use new features to drive upgrades, but here is why it could be different this time:
1) the new screen sizes (over and above the usual new chips and camera improvements and storage increases) will drive upgrades anyway and
2) Apple wants to get the ball rolling quickly on their mobile payment system and adding some "old models" to the stream would only help.
1) Based on your comments if last year there was potential evidence of NFC you could just say it's not going to happen because it's not the iPhone 5. They have to include the HW, SW, and infrastructure at some point, so why do you think that it would have been in 2013 and not in 2014 or later?
2) iBeacon is not for payments! iBeacon is a specially designed protocol over Bluetooth Low-Energy.
3) It would be very un-Apple to not the most secure option for mobile payments.
4) How exactly are you so certain it will not be called iWallet and will be called AirPay? If you were making a guess or stating what you think sounds best that would be one thing but you clearly state what it will and will not be.
My whole post was a prediction. I didn't find it necessary to point it out specifically on the "AirPay" vs "iWallet" comment.
In any case, I think everybody is short changing Apple's ability to innovate and come out with a non-NFC based system that is as-secure or more secure than the existing options. Apple invented iBeacons and they aren't necessarily limited in its use to what you think "it's meant for".
Tuesday will tell the tale, but I'll personally be very disappointed if what they announce is just a minor variation of the same 'ol NFC based solution that others are already doing.
Is there really nobody else on any of these forums that thinks that Apple may have come up with a completely different (and better) Mobile Payment solution that does not require NFC??? I don't just think it's possible - I think it's LIKELY!
Hear hear!
Originally Posted by blackbook
The 5S couldn't have had NFC because of the metal body. Apple had to redesign the chassis to make NFC work, hence why it's being released this year in the redesigned iPhone 6.
The iPhone 5S doesn’t have a metal body moreso than the iPhone 6. There’s more metal on the new one than the current. That’s completely irrelevant.
Based in CVS's existing implementation, it'd be surprising if they were in on this. They have a proprietary (insanely byzantine) app BUT no integration to Passbook as do Rite-Aid and Walgreens.
Either they got religion on iWallet and figured there was no reason to pursue making their existing app a decent UI or Passbook, or someone's news nose needs some Vicks.
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">Also when you hand them your Passbook at Rite-Aid (at least the dozen I've been to in NEngland) they look at you like you just handed them a live eel. </span>
My whole post was a prediction. I didn't find it necessary to point it out specifically on the "AirPay" vs "iWallet" comment.
So says the guy on the corner with the bible saying the end is near and that we're all going to hell, but he's unwavering assertion and use of absolute statements makes him sound crazy.
In any case, I think everybody is short changing Apple's ability to innovate and come out with a non-NFC based system that is as-secure or more secure than the existing options. Apple invented iBeacons and they aren't necessarily limited in its use to what you think "it's meant for".
1) And iBeacons are OVER Bluetooth and yet you haven't stated anything about you shortchanging Apple for using the standardized BT protocol and HW.
2) As Jobs said, it's not about being different, but about being the best. If there is a better tech that exists (he used Ethernet as compared to AppleTalk) then Apple will use it.
Tuesday will tell the tale, but I'll personally be very disappointed if what they announce is just a minor variation of the same 'ol NFC based solution that others are already doing.
What do you have against NFC? Why do think an omnidirectional comparatively long-range signal is better than one that requires a very short magnetic loop to operate? My guess is you don't know anything about NFC except what you've heard from Android-based vendors over the last 3 years which is why you don't like it. BTW, Apple wasn't the first to use BT.
AirPay is too close to AirPlay...but then again, I disliked the fact that iPad sounded so similar to iPod.
If Passbook will still be the 'container' for credit card information, then maybe they'll just call it iPass? Blech... I don't like the sound of that either. Has ominous, discriminatory overtones. And there is this also: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/marketwire/1142421.htm
So says the guy on the corner with the bible saying the end is near and that we're all going to hell, but he's unwavering assertion and use of absolute statements makes him sound crazy.
1) And iBeacons are OVER Bluetooth and yet you haven't stated anything about you shortchanging Apple for using the standardized BT protocol and HW.
2) As Jobs said, it's not about being different, but about being the best. If there is a better tech that exists (he used Ethernet as compared to AppleTalk) then Apple will use it.
What do you have against NFC? Why do think an omnidirectional comparatively long-range signal is better than one that requires a very short magnetic loop to operate? My guess is you don't know anything about NFC except what you've heard from Android-based vendors over the last 3 years which is why you don't like it. BTW, Apple wasn't the first to use BT.
You may want to re-read my original post. I'm not necessarily against NFC. I think that, like Satellite radio, it gets a lot more hype than it deserves, but I acknowledge that there are a ton of uses for it. Similarly, I'm not making any kind of claim that the solution will or should be powered by Bluetooth or iBeacon - my comments about iBeacon were directed at the person who claimed that iBeacon could NOT be used for Mobile Payments because the were designed for some other purpose.
My original post is a prediction that the new phone will not include NFC and a statement that NFC is not necessarily even required for a mobile payment system. If anybody is going to do something new, different and probably "better", my money says it will be Apple. I believe that Apple has been developing their "new, better and different" system for the past few years and that their new, better and different system will NOT require NFC. I don't know what it will use or how it will work - possibly Bluetooth, maybe iBeacon, could be something completely different.
It would have been pretty easy for Apple to add NFC to the 3GS, 4, 4S, 5, 5C or 5S and roll out mobile payment support long before now if they were simply going to jump on the bandwagon and use the existing technology. The fact that they have not done so in their prior devices, even though their Mobile Solution project was already in development - is what really makes it obvious to me that their solution is NFC-free.
Seriously... How many iPhone 5S and 5C phones are out there? If Apple were working on a mobile payment solution that was going to require NFC, they would have included NFC in last year's hardware so that they could maximize their customer base from day 1. What really baffles me is why nobody has even accepted my predictions as "possible" (even if they don't believe they're probable.) There almost seems to be some kind of brainwashing in effect which has caused people to think that it is an incontrovertible truth that Mobile Payments are not possible without NFC and that no better technology could or will ever come along...
It's actually pretty funny how closed minded everyone seems to be on the topic - but once again, here are my predictions on Apple's Mobile Payment system:
NFC will not be a required component of the phone for Apple's new Mobile Payment system.
Apple's solution will be available on at least the iPhone 5C, 5S and 6 from day 1.
It will make possible many ease of use features not currently supported by existing systems.
It will be at least "as secure", but probably "more secure" than existing systems.
It will be called "AirPay".
Nobody will send me a message saying "Wow! You were right! You're so smart!" /s
I'd even be willing to accept a few small wagers on prediction #1.
Again, iBeacon is over BT. iBeacon can't exist without BT but BT exists without iBeacon.
It would have been pretty easy for Apple to add NFC to the 3GS, 4, 4S, 5, 5C or 5S and roll out mobile payment support long before now if they were simply going to jump on the bandwagon and use the existing technology. The fact that they have not done so in their prior devices, even though their Mobile Solution project was already in development - is what really makes it obvious to me that their solution is NFC-free.
Again, no, no, no, no, no. This is not easy, which is why it's failed miserably for everyone that has attempted it in the past. You need an infrastructure setup from the financial institutions to the retailers, not just popping a chip into a phone. On top of that — again — you need the proper antenna setup for the magnetic loop. Only the iPhone 3G and 3GS were even feasible for NFC to create this loop until the leaks of the 2014 iPhone with the wide bands appeared.
Seriously... How many iPhone 5S and 5C phones are out there? If Apple were working on a mobile payment solution that was going to require NFC, they would have included NFC in last year's hardware so that they could maximize their customer base from day 1. What really baffles me is why nobody has even accepted my predictions as "possible" (even if they don't believe they're probable.) There almost seems to be some kind of brainwashing in effect which has caused people to think that it is an incontrovertible truth that Mobile Payments are not possible without NFC and that no better technology could or will ever come along…
That's just bonkers on so many levels, but lets isolate the one truly idiotic comment you've made. You state that it will be over BT. You also state that if it was going to use NFC they would have included mobile payments years ago. Yet BT was included years ago and yet there was no mobile payments with the 5C or 5S or 5 or any other iPhone. At some point Apple has to include HW, SW, ecosystem and infrastructure if it wants to include a feature. There will always be a demarcation point!
It's actually pretty funny how closed minded everyone seems to be on the topic - but once again, here are my predictions on Apple's Mobile Payment system:
NFC will not be a required component of the phone for Apple's new Mobile Payment system.
Apple's solution will be available on at least the iPhone 5C, 5S and 6 from day 1.
It will make possible many ease of use features not currently supported by existing systems.
It will be at least "as secure", but probably "more secure" than existing systems.
It will be called "AirPay".
Nobody will send me a message saying "Wow! You were right! You're so smart!" /s
I'd even be willing to accept a few small wagers on prediction #1.
You're not the only one but you're definitely being closed minded, or perhaps just obtuse if you still can't wrap how iBeacon communicates over BT.
Again, iBeacon is over BT. iBeacon can't exist without BT but BT exists without iBeacon.
Again, no, no, no, no, no. This is not easy, which is why it's failed miserably for everyone that has attempted it in the past. You need an infrastructure setup from the financial institutions to the retailers, not just popping a chip into a phone. On top of that — again — you need the proper antenna setup for the magnetic loop. Only the iPhone 3G and 3GS were even feasible for NFC to create this loop until the leaks of the 2014 iPhone with the wide bands appeared.
That's just bonkers on so many levels, but lets isolate the one truly idiotic comment you've made. You state that it will be over BT. You also state that if it was going to use NFC they would have included mobile payments years ago. Yet BT was included years ago and yet there was no mobile payments with the 5C or 5S or 5 or any other iPhone. At some point Apple has to include HW, SW, ecosystem and infrastructure if it wants to include a feature. There will always be a demarcation point!
You're not the only one but you're definitely being closed minded, or perhaps just obtuse if you still can't wrap how iBeacon communicates over BT.
You continue to focus on something I didn't even say. Of course I accept that iBeacon uses BlueTooth as a component - but it uses the lateset low-energy Bluetooth. There are several other flavours of Bluetooth which are completely different and that's probably why I mentioned them separately...
But you seem to think that I am claiming that Bluetooth or iBeacon will definitely be a part of the solution. I am definitely not saying that...! The only thing I am actually saying is that "NFC will NOT be part of the system". Maybe bluetooth, maybe ibeacon, maybe wi-fi, maybe barcodes, maybe something new that nobody has ever heard of before - but NOT NFC! LOL
I also understand demarcation points and what you're trying to say about them - but you're not understanding what I'm trying to say so I'm just going to wait for Tuesday and see if you prove me wrong about prediction number 6! /s
You may want to re-read my original post. I'm not necessarily against NFC. I think that, like Satellite radio, it gets a lot more hype than it deserves, but I acknowledge that there are a ton of uses for it. Similarly, I'm not making any kind of claim that the solution will or should be powered by Bluetooth or iBeacon - my comments about iBeacon were directed at the person who claimed that iBeacon could NOT be used for Mobile Payments because the were designed for some other purpose.
My original post is a prediction that the new phone will not include NFC and a statement that NFC is not necessarily even required for a mobile payment system. If anybody is going to do something new, different and probably "better", my money says it will be Apple. I believe that Apple has been developing their "new, better and different" system for the past few years and that their new, better and different system will NOT require NFC. I don't know what it will use or how it will work - possibly Bluetooth, maybe iBeacon, could be something completely different.
It would have been pretty easy for Apple to add NFC to the 3GS, 4, 4S, 5, 5C or 5S and roll out mobile payment support long before now if they were simply going to jump on the bandwagon and use the existing technology. The fact that they have not done so in their prior devices, even though their Mobile Solution project was already in development - is what really makes it obvious to me that their solution is NFC-free.
Seriously... How many iPhone 5S and 5C phones are out there? If Apple were working on a mobile payment solution that was going to require NFC, they would have included NFC in last year's hardware so that they could maximize their customer base from day 1. What really baffles me is why nobody has even accepted my predictions as "possible" (even if they don't believe they're probable.) There almost seems to be some kind of brainwashing in effect which has caused people to think that it is an incontrovertible truth that Mobile Payments are not possible without NFC and that no better technology could or will ever come along...
It's actually pretty funny how closed minded everyone seems to be on the topic - but once again, here are my predictions on Apple's Mobile Payment system:
NFC will not be a required component of the phone for Apple's new Mobile Payment system.
Apple's solution will be available on at least the iPhone 5C, 5S and 6 from day 1.
It will make possible many ease of use features not currently supported by existing systems.
It will be at least "as secure", but probably "more secure" than existing systems.
It will be called "AirPay".
Nobody will send me a message saying "Wow! You were right! You're so smart!" /s
I'd even be willing to accept a few small wagers on prediction #1.
- but once again, here are my predictions on Apple's Mobile Payment system:
NFC will not be a required component of the phone for Apple's new Mobile Payment system.
Nobody will send me a message saying "Wow! You were right! You're so smart!" /s
I'd even be willing to accept a few small wagers on prediction #1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirLance99
I'll take that bet for sure.
Awesome!
If I'm right and Apple releases a Mobile Payment system that doesn't require the phone to be NFC enabled, then for the entire month of September, you must post a comment on every single AI article saying "I'm waiting for Tenly to comment and explain what this really means. He's incredibly smart and I can't wait to hear his opinion on this article!"
If you win and the phones do in fact require NFC in order to use the Apple mobile payment system, what would you like?
If I'm right and Apple releases a Mobile Payment system that doesn't require the phone to be NFC enabled, then for the entire month of September, you must post a comment on every single AI article saying "I'm waiting for Tenly to comment and explain what this really means. He's incredibly smart and I can't wait to hear his opinion on this article!"
If you win and the phones do in fact require NFC in order to use the Apple mobile payment system, what would you like?
1) FYI, your wish sounds both narcissistic and desperate.
2) So now your claim is that Apple will offer an option that doesn't require NFC, not your previous statements of Bluetooth -or- iBeacons? So if they offer NFC for the newer devices and allow BT for older devices you're saying that you win your invented bet?
3) If you're so against NFC why not just double down on "Apple will never support NFC on any device ever!"
1) FYI, your wish sounds both narcissistic and desperate.
2) So now your claim is that Apple will offer an option that doesn't require NFC, not your previous statements of Bluetooth -or- iBeacons? So if they offer NFC for the newer devices and allow BT for older devices you're saying that you win your invented bet?
3) If you're so against NFC why not just double down on "Apple will never support NFC on any device ever!"
1) It would sound that way to someone without a sense of humor. What am I going to do? Ask the guy to send me money? I don't think so. So something light-hearted and fun makes the most sense to me.
2) I'm not sure if it's your reading or your comprehension which is retarded. I never once claimed that they would or should use Bluetooth or iBeacons. My claim from the beginning is that NFC would not be required for Apple's Mobile Payment solution. I'm not sure how many more times I can say that before you'll finally read the actual words I wrote. You're arguing with me about words I didn't say! Are you really that lonely? Technically, yes, I would win the bet if their Mobile Payement system did not require Bluetooth - but that's not why I worded it the way I did. Apple may have found some use for NFC related to their new Home Automation stuff - and if that's so - they may very well include NFC capabilities in the iPhone 6. But even if they include NFC for that reason - my prediction is that it woud not be used by their Mobile Payment system.
3) That's a pretty idiotic claim. Once more, you're inventing statements that I didn't make and then taking offense to them? I might be angered by it if it wasn't so funny! How old are you? 13? You argue like a child. I'm not totally against NFC. I'm attempting to predict the future here and my prediction is that NFC will not be a neccessary component in Apple's Mobile Payment system. Why the hell does that offend you so much? People make predictions every day. Some wrong, some right. What makes this particular prediction deserving of so much of your time?
Other people - help me out here: Is this guy a troll that I should just be blocking and ignoring? Or is he normally somewhat intelligent?
If you want something secure, I think the best would be an optical system—you put your thumb on the TouchID and hold the screen of the phone up under a little hood, where it flashes a barcode for an infinitesimal moment. No radio signal, no eavesdropping. Of course, there are no terminals like that so—chicken-and-egg—but if I were designing a secure system, that's what I'd do.
1) It would sound that way to someone without a sense of humor. What am I going to do? Ask the guy to send me money? I don't think so. So something light-hearted and fun makes the most sense to me.
2) I'm not sure if it's your reading or your comprehension which is retarded. I never once claimed that they would or should use Bluetooth or iBeacons. My claim from the beginning is that NFC would not be required for Apple's Mobile Payment solution. I'm not sure how many more times I can say that before you'll finally read the actual words I wrote. You're arguing with me about words I didn't say! Are you really that lonely? Technically, yes, I would win the bet if their Mobile Payement system did not require Bluetooth - but that's not why I worded it the way I did. Apple may have found some use for NFC related to their new Home Automation stuff - and if that's so - they may very well include NFC capabilities in the iPhone 6. But even if they include NFC for that reason - my prediction is that it woud not be used by their Mobile Payment system.
3) That's a pretty idiotic claim. Once more, you're inventing statements that I didn't make and then taking offense to them? I might be angered by it if it wasn't so funny! How old are you? 13? You argue like a child. I'm not totally against NFC. I'm attempting to predict the future here and my prediction is that NFC will not be a neccessary component in Apple's Mobile Payment system. Why the hell does that offend you so much? People make predictions every day. Some wrong, some right. What makes this particular prediction deserving of so much of your time?
Other people - help me out here: Is this guy a troll that I should just be blocking and ignoring? Or is he normally somewhat intelligent?
1) So you've gone from making sweeping absolute claims that Apple will not support NFC to now saying that you're not saying they won't support NFC. If you really want someone to take you up on a bet you need to clarify your thoughts and stop trying to play both sides.
2) You might want to cool it with the ad hominem comments.
Other people - help me out here: Is this guy a troll that I should just be blocking and ignoring? Or is he normally somewhat intelligent?
He's more than "somewhat intelligent". He has extensive and in-depth knowledge on All Things IT. He's a long time poster, giving insightful posts day after day and considered to be of great benefit by many on this site, and other sites as well. Not only does he give accurate information, but he'll also admit when others point out when he's wrong.
He's more than "somewhat intelligent". He has extensive and in-depth knowledge on All Things IT. He's a long time poster, giving insightful posts day after day and considered to be of great benefit by many on this site, and other sites as well. Not only does he give accurate information, but he'll also admit when others point out when he's wrong.
Thanks Phil.
I guess I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and try once more to reason with him.
1) So you've gone from making sweeping absolute claims that Apple will not support NFC to now saying that you're not saying they won't support NFC. If you really want someone to take you up on a bet you need to clarify your thoughts and stop trying to play both sides.
2) You might want to cool it with the ad hominem comments.
I thought I replied to this one earlier but I don't see it anymore and haven't seen a reply from you since I posted it.
I'm going to step back here and give you the benefit of the doubt once more. I honestly think you misread my earliest post in this thread - and since then you've been putting words in my mouth and arguing with me about things I didn't say.
Here's the most important excerpt from my original post (Post #37):
Is there really nobody else on any of these forums that thinks that Apple may have come up with a completely different (and better) Mobile Payment solution that does not require NFC???
I don't just think it's possible - I think it's LIKELY! If Apple thought there was any chance at all that they would release an NFC based solution, they would have made that decision well over a year ago and the 5S and 5C would definitely have included NFC capabilities. The fact that the 5S and 5C do NOT have NFC coupled with the fact that the Mobile Payment solution is now ready for implementation is all the proof I need to convince me that NFC is NOT part of the Apple Mobile payment system.
So you see - right from the get-go, I limited my comments about NFC to "the Apple Mobile payment system". But somehow along the way, you seem to think I have made sweeping, negative, absolute statements about NFC as a whole. It's just not true.
Somebody just told me that you're a good guy, well respected and will admit when you're wrong. Is that true?
read through all the comments and I'm amazed that no one saw the potential health kit component. That back end register in my CVS is NFC enabled now.
What happens if payment information isn't the only thing passed between PoS and Phone securely? Say, like drug name, dosing instructions, refill information?
Accurate collection of Rx history.
- which if dosage is sent, then you get health kit automatically becoming your refill reminder, and dosing reminder
- and if you get prescribing MD (a big deal when you see 4-5 doctors), your health history is getting names and numbers
- and if it caught OTC stuff, a more complete history (you're taking grapefruit extract AND Ambien?)
this is bigger than big. It's a potential lifesaver. In many ways.
my S.O. is one that forgets her meds. She's 50, busy, and a bit ADD. she would benefit greatly if her phone reminded her to take her prednisone TID this week, BID next week, and Once a day after that. When she forgot her first BID dose ('elbow felt great, didn't think of it') then her stomach went haywire (prednisone can fsck up your system if you don't slowly withdraw from it).
Let alone managing an HSA or your medical expenses.
I can't believe you guys are arguing on the 'how' and less on 'This could be big!'
Comments
My whole post was a prediction. I didn't find it necessary to point it out specifically on the "AirPay" vs "iWallet" comment.
In any case, I think everybody is short changing Apple's ability to innovate and come out with a non-NFC based system that is as-secure or more secure than the existing options. Apple invented iBeacons and they aren't necessarily limited in its use to what you think "it's meant for".
Tuesday will tell the tale, but I'll personally be very disappointed if what they announce is just a minor variation of the same 'ol NFC based solution that others are already doing.
Hear hear!
The iPhone 5S doesn’t have a metal body moreso than the iPhone 6. There’s more metal on the new one than the current. That’s completely irrelevant.
"...someone's news nose needs some Vicks."
I like your choice of words.
So says the guy on the corner with the bible saying the end is near and that we're all going to hell, but he's unwavering assertion and use of absolute statements makes him sound crazy.
1) And iBeacons are OVER Bluetooth and yet you haven't stated anything about you shortchanging Apple for using the standardized BT protocol and HW.
2) As Jobs said, it's not about being different, but about being the best. If there is a better tech that exists (he used Ethernet as compared to AppleTalk) then Apple will use it.
What do you have against NFC? Why do think an omnidirectional comparatively long-range signal is better than one that requires a very short magnetic loop to operate? My guess is you don't know anything about NFC except what you've heard from Android-based vendors over the last 3 years which is why you don't like it. BTW, Apple wasn't the first to use BT.
<a>A</s>i<s>r</s>Pay=iPay
AirPay is too close to AirPlay...but then again, I disliked the fact that iPad sounded so similar to iPod.
If Passbook will still be the 'container' for credit card information, then maybe they'll just call it iPass? Blech... I don't like the sound of that either. Has ominous, discriminatory overtones. And there is this also: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/marketwire/1142421.htm
So says the guy on the corner with the bible saying the end is near and that we're all going to hell, but he's unwavering assertion and use of absolute statements makes him sound crazy.
1) And iBeacons are OVER Bluetooth and yet you haven't stated anything about you shortchanging Apple for using the standardized BT protocol and HW.
2) As Jobs said, it's not about being different, but about being the best. If there is a better tech that exists (he used Ethernet as compared to AppleTalk) then Apple will use it.
What do you have against NFC? Why do think an omnidirectional comparatively long-range signal is better than one that requires a very short magnetic loop to operate? My guess is you don't know anything about NFC except what you've heard from Android-based vendors over the last 3 years which is why you don't like it. BTW, Apple wasn't the first to use BT.
You may want to re-read my original post. I'm not necessarily against NFC. I think that, like Satellite radio, it gets a lot more hype than it deserves, but I acknowledge that there are a ton of uses for it. Similarly, I'm not making any kind of claim that the solution will or should be powered by Bluetooth or iBeacon - my comments about iBeacon were directed at the person who claimed that iBeacon could NOT be used for Mobile Payments because the were designed for some other purpose.
My original post is a prediction that the new phone will not include NFC and a statement that NFC is not necessarily even required for a mobile payment system. If anybody is going to do something new, different and probably "better", my money says it will be Apple. I believe that Apple has been developing their "new, better and different" system for the past few years and that their new, better and different system will NOT require NFC. I don't know what it will use or how it will work - possibly Bluetooth, maybe iBeacon, could be something completely different.
It would have been pretty easy for Apple to add NFC to the 3GS, 4, 4S, 5, 5C or 5S and roll out mobile payment support long before now if they were simply going to jump on the bandwagon and use the existing technology. The fact that they have not done so in their prior devices, even though their Mobile Solution project was already in development - is what really makes it obvious to me that their solution is NFC-free.
Seriously... How many iPhone 5S and 5C phones are out there? If Apple were working on a mobile payment solution that was going to require NFC, they would have included NFC in last year's hardware so that they could maximize their customer base from day 1. What really baffles me is why nobody has even accepted my predictions as "possible" (even if they don't believe they're probable.) There almost seems to be some kind of brainwashing in effect which has caused people to think that it is an incontrovertible truth that Mobile Payments are not possible without NFC and that no better technology could or will ever come along...
It's actually pretty funny how closed minded everyone seems to be on the topic - but once again, here are my predictions on Apple's Mobile Payment system:
I'd even be willing to accept a few small wagers on prediction #1.
Again, iBeacon is over BT. iBeacon can't exist without BT but BT exists without iBeacon.
Again, no, no, no, no, no. This is not easy, which is why it's failed miserably for everyone that has attempted it in the past. You need an infrastructure setup from the financial institutions to the retailers, not just popping a chip into a phone. On top of that — again — you need the proper antenna setup for the magnetic loop. Only the iPhone 3G and 3GS were even feasible for NFC to create this loop until the leaks of the 2014 iPhone with the wide bands appeared.
That's just bonkers on so many levels, but lets isolate the one truly idiotic comment you've made. You state that it will be over BT. You also state that if it was going to use NFC they would have included mobile payments years ago. Yet BT was included years ago and yet there was no mobile payments with the 5C or 5S or 5 or any other iPhone. At some point Apple has to include HW, SW, ecosystem and infrastructure if it wants to include a feature. There will always be a demarcation point!
You're not the only one but you're definitely being closed minded, or perhaps just obtuse if you still can't wrap how iBeacon communicates over BT.
You continue to focus on something I didn't even say. Of course I accept that iBeacon uses BlueTooth as a component - but it uses the lateset low-energy Bluetooth. There are several other flavours of Bluetooth which are completely different and that's probably why I mentioned them separately...
But you seem to think that I am claiming that Bluetooth or iBeacon will definitely be a part of the solution. I am definitely not saying that...! The only thing I am actually saying is that "NFC will NOT be part of the system". Maybe bluetooth, maybe ibeacon, maybe wi-fi, maybe barcodes, maybe something new that nobody has ever heard of before - but NOT NFC! LOL
I also understand demarcation points and what you're trying to say about them - but you're not understanding what I'm trying to say so I'm just going to wait for Tuesday and see if you prove me wrong about prediction number 6! /s
I'll take that bet for sure.
- but once again, here are my predictions on Apple's Mobile Payment system:
I'd even be willing to accept a few small wagers on prediction #1.
Quote:
I'll take that bet for sure.
Awesome!
If I'm right and Apple releases a Mobile Payment system that doesn't require the phone to be NFC enabled, then for the entire month of September, you must post a comment on every single AI article saying "I'm waiting for Tenly to comment and explain what this really means. He's incredibly smart and I can't wait to hear his opinion on this article!"
If you win and the phones do in fact require NFC in order to use the Apple mobile payment system, what would you like?
1) FYI, your wish sounds both narcissistic and desperate.
2) So now your claim is that Apple will offer an option that doesn't require NFC, not your previous statements of Bluetooth -or- iBeacons? So if they offer NFC for the newer devices and allow BT for older devices you're saying that you win your invented bet?
3) If you're so against NFC why not just double down on "Apple will never support NFC on any device ever!"
1) FYI, your wish sounds both narcissistic and desperate.
2) So now your claim is that Apple will offer an option that doesn't require NFC, not your previous statements of Bluetooth -or- iBeacons? So if they offer NFC for the newer devices and allow BT for older devices you're saying that you win your invented bet?
3) If you're so against NFC why not just double down on "Apple will never support NFC on any device ever!"
1) It would sound that way to someone without a sense of humor. What am I going to do? Ask the guy to send me money? I don't think so. So something light-hearted and fun makes the most sense to me.
2) I'm not sure if it's your reading or your comprehension which is retarded. I never once claimed that they would or should use Bluetooth or iBeacons. My claim from the beginning is that NFC would not be required for Apple's Mobile Payment solution. I'm not sure how many more times I can say that before you'll finally read the actual words I wrote. You're arguing with me about words I didn't say! Are you really that lonely? Technically, yes, I would win the bet if their Mobile Payement system did not require Bluetooth - but that's not why I worded it the way I did. Apple may have found some use for NFC related to their new Home Automation stuff - and if that's so - they may very well include NFC capabilities in the iPhone 6. But even if they include NFC for that reason - my prediction is that it woud not be used by their Mobile Payment system.
3) That's a pretty idiotic claim. Once more, you're inventing statements that I didn't make and then taking offense to them? I might be angered by it if it wasn't so funny! How old are you? 13? You argue like a child. I'm not totally against NFC. I'm attempting to predict the future here and my prediction is that NFC will not be a neccessary component in Apple's Mobile Payment system. Why the hell does that offend you so much? People make predictions every day. Some wrong, some right. What makes this particular prediction deserving of so much of your time?
Other people - help me out here: Is this guy a troll that I should just be blocking and ignoring? Or is he normally somewhat intelligent?
1) So you've gone from making sweeping absolute claims that Apple will not support NFC to now saying that you're not saying they won't support NFC. If you really want someone to take you up on a bet you need to clarify your thoughts and stop trying to play both sides.
2) You might want to cool it with the ad hominem comments.
He's more than "somewhat intelligent". He has extensive and in-depth knowledge on All Things IT. He's a long time poster, giving insightful posts day after day and considered to be of great benefit by many on this site, and other sites as well. Not only does he give accurate information, but he'll also admit when others point out when he's wrong.
Oh, also:
Thanks Phil.
I guess I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and try once more to reason with him.
I thought I replied to this one earlier but I don't see it anymore and haven't seen a reply from you since I posted it.
I'm going to step back here and give you the benefit of the doubt once more. I honestly think you misread my earliest post in this thread - and since then you've been putting words in my mouth and arguing with me about things I didn't say.
Here's the most important excerpt from my original post (Post #37):
So you see - right from the get-go, I limited my comments about NFC to "the Apple Mobile payment system". But somehow along the way, you seem to think I have made sweeping, negative, absolute statements about NFC as a whole. It's just not true.
Somebody just told me that you're a good guy, well respected and will admit when you're wrong. Is that true?
read through all the comments and I'm amazed that no one saw the potential health kit component. That back end register in my CVS is NFC enabled now.
What happens if payment information isn't the only thing passed between PoS and Phone securely? Say, like drug name, dosing instructions, refill information?
Accurate collection of Rx history.
- which if dosage is sent, then you get health kit automatically becoming your refill reminder, and dosing reminder
- and if you get prescribing MD (a big deal when you see 4-5 doctors), your health history is getting names and numbers
- and if it caught OTC stuff, a more complete history (you're taking grapefruit extract AND Ambien?)
this is bigger than big. It's a potential lifesaver. In many ways.
my S.O. is one that forgets her meds. She's 50, busy, and a bit ADD. she would benefit greatly if her phone reminded her to take her prednisone TID this week, BID next week, and Once a day after that. When she forgot her first BID dose ('elbow felt great, didn't think of it') then her stomach went haywire (prednisone can fsck up your system if you don't slowly withdraw from it).
Let alone managing an HSA or your medical expenses.
I can't believe you guys are arguing on the 'how' and less on 'This could be big!'