After EU goes after Ireland, what next? Canada? Every country tries to reduce corporate taxes to entice companies to work in their country. Every person and corporation tries to pay as little tax as it has too.
You know, it is now IMPOSSIBLE TO QUOTE AND REPLY ON AN IPHONE BECACAUSE A.I. (IN IT'S INFINITE WISDOM) HAS DECIDED TO USE INVISIBLE BANNER ADS THAT OVERLAY THE 'QUOTE AND REPLY' BUTTON! Thanks a lot, guys! /S!!!!!!
After EU goes after Ireland, what next? Canada? Every country tries to reduce corporate taxes to entice companies to work in their country. Every person and corporation tries to pay as little tax as it has too.
(...oh, NOW the 'quote and reply' works... bloody heck...)
Anyway, once politicians start going after tax money, they will stop at nothing.
If Ireland or any EU panel is remotely successful in extracting any taxes via blackmail, Apple should pull all of their operations out and head straight for Luxembourg.
That's not a holistic picture. If you have lower income you are likely to have lower debt as well per capita. Everyone knows that. Nevermind that several of the countries on that list defaulted on their debt... Italy, France, Greece, Portugal, Spain....
Ireland won the race to the bottom on corporate tax and now it's paying the price.
Is that how you'd describe Nevada's success in attracting Tesla's Gig factory? Or the southern states that have for decades offered tax incentives to companies for moving their operations into those states? My hometown of Pittsfield, Massachusetts lost most of its General Electric operations (Transformer division and Chemicals division) to southern states. Pittsfield's economy collapsed. So, what! GE had the right to move out and those southern states apparently weren't breaking any laws (at least I haven't heard anything about that in the 20 years since GE moved). Tough cookies for Pittsfield. Tough cookies for the EU countries, as long as no laws were broken.
Apple, like any company, has a fiduciary responsibility to operate efficiently and within the law. Seems like it's done just that while also deferring U.S. taxes that will eventually be owed, just like most of us use 401(k) investing to defer our own income taxes that will eventually be owed.
Seem like a bottleful of sour grapes on the part of those who disagree.
Is that how you'd describe Nevada's success in attracting Tesla's Gig factory? Or the southern states that have for decades offered tax incentives to companies for moving their operations into those states? My hometown of Pittsfield, Massachusetts lost most of its General Electric operations (Transformer division and Chemicals division) to southern states. Pittsfield's economy collapsed. So, what! GE had the right to move out and those southern states apparently weren't breaking any laws (at least I haven't heard anything about that in the 20 years since GE moved). Tough cookies for Pittsfield. Tough cookies for the EU countries, as long as no laws were broken.
Apple, like any company, has a fiduciary responsibility to operate efficiently and within the law. Seems like it's done just that while also deferring U.S. taxes that will eventually be owed, just like most of us use 401(k) investing to defer our own income taxes that will eventually be owed.
Seem like a bottleful of sour grapes on the part of those who disagree.
It's not sour grapes, it's political. Careers are made when scumbags find the right buttons to push and the right targets to attack.
The story in Forbes is correct to state that the EU will not be fining Apple. The transfer price policy mentioned in the article is indeed the major reason for the investigation. But the article is not correct in the consequences if the transfer prices are found to be artificially manipulated.
If the European commission finds that the transfer price rules in Ireland are indeed anti-competitive wrt to other member states, the EU will force Ireland to obey to the rules of Eurpean treaty. It can force Ireland to take action and to retroactiveley change its tax legislation. In such a case Apple (and other companies like Fiat) will be forced to pay additional taxes retroactively, but is Ireland and not the EU who would make Apple pay these additional taxes. In any case Apple will not be fined, as it complied to the rules, even if the rules are considered as anti-competitive.
Nothing was stoping other countries from offering incentives for companies to do business in their country.
The early reports indicate the problem isn't Irish tax laws but instead special agreements that avoided standard tax. Since the EU hasn't yet released it's findings, including documents and details outlining Apple's tax negotiations in Ireland, it's a bit early to say no one did anything they perhaps should not have. Give it another couple of days for the details to be published.
FWIW Apple's special Singapore tax arrangements may be the more important ones with Chinese sales soon to explode.
No need to wait, because Ireland has had a special tax rate for companies willing to invest there since the late 70's. It's the very same type of incentives that US States and regions use to spur economic growth and attract companies to invest and relocate.
The term Special Economic Zones came into wide usage about the same time China (Shenzen) and Ireland both implemented theirs to resounding success.
No later than 2 - 2.5 years ago, there was discussion to create Special Economic Zones in Greece and Portugal, as well as to include Ireland under a new charter.
Considering that at one time in the not too distant past, Germany and France were lobbying EU Parliament to look into an SEZ to dampen the pain of bailing out Greece, Portugal, and Spain (repeatedly)... which entails special TAX INCENTIVES for investment and relocation.... what is NOW that they see went wrong with the very successful experiment in Ireland?
Yup... they forgot to get their own grubby hands into the cookie jar as much as they would've liked to. The functionaries are just looking for scapegoats so they themselves don't look bad, and to boost their standings on a populist witch-hunt.
The next time you throw up statistics could you include a source please. Without knowing where you got those numbers and how they were assessed, they have absolutely NO MEANING whatsoever. You could've pulled them outa yer pooper for all we know, so yes... they're dirty and full of "sh1t".
Nice try but debt per capita is only one measurement of a countries health. You also need to factor in economic growth and stability along with gross domestic product (GDP). In case you hadn't noticed, the U.S. is doing far better economically than the EU. Further, the U.S. has dramatically increased debt over the last few years fighting wars on 3 fronts to stop global terrorism and protect you. Give it a rest.
Ah, move the goalposts until you get it right. So you switched from the EU having no power over special Irish taxing agreements to having no power to fine Apple for making use of them. We all already knew the EU isn't after Apple but instead Ireland. Congrats on figuring out a way to be correct finally.
He moved no goalpost. His point remains the same. You either completely misunderstood what he's saying, or are being obtuse.
Nice try but debt per capita is only one measurement of a country's health. You also need to factor in economic growth and stability along with gross domestic product (GDP). In case you hadn't noticed, the U.S. is doing far better economically than the EU. Further, the U.S. has dramatically increased debt over the last few years fighting wars on 3 fronts to stop global terrorism and protect you. Give it a rest.
He moved no goalpost. His point remains the same. You either completely misunderstood what he's saying, or are being obtuse.
The fact is, he's right. Get over it.
LOL. Explain to Mr Almunia how the EU has no power over anti-competitive agreements forged between corporations and member states. That way he won't waste his time once you've made things clear for him.
Comments
After EU goes after Ireland, what next? Canada? Every country tries to reduce corporate taxes to entice companies to work in their country. Every person and corporation tries to pay as little tax as it has too.
(...oh, NOW the 'quote and reply' works... bloody heck...)
Anyway, once politicians start going after tax money, they will stop at nothing.
If Ireland or any EU panel is remotely successful in extracting any taxes via blackmail, Apple should pull all of their operations out and head straight for Luxembourg.
If the EU is broke, what is the US?
per capita debt:
US: 39k€
Italy: 33k€
France: 29k€
Greece: 27k€
Germany: 26k€
UK: 26k€
Portugal: 19k€
Spain: 19k€
That's not a holistic picture. If you have lower income you are likely to have lower debt as well per capita. Everyone knows that. Nevermind that several of the countries on that list defaulted on their debt... Italy, France, Greece, Portugal, Spain....
Ireland won the race to the bottom on corporate tax and now it's paying the price.
Is that how you'd describe Nevada's success in attracting Tesla's Gig factory? Or the southern states that have for decades offered tax incentives to companies for moving their operations into those states? My hometown of Pittsfield, Massachusetts lost most of its General Electric operations (Transformer division and Chemicals division) to southern states. Pittsfield's economy collapsed. So, what! GE had the right to move out and those southern states apparently weren't breaking any laws (at least I haven't heard anything about that in the 20 years since GE moved). Tough cookies for Pittsfield. Tough cookies for the EU countries, as long as no laws were broken.
Apple, like any company, has a fiduciary responsibility to operate efficiently and within the law. Seems like it's done just that while also deferring U.S. taxes that will eventually be owed, just like most of us use 401(k) investing to defer our own income taxes that will eventually be owed.
Seem like a bottleful of sour grapes on the part of those who disagree.
It's not sour grapes, it's political. Careers are made when scumbags find the right buttons to push and the right targets to attack.
The EU can't indeed do nothing to make Apple pay.
The story in Forbes is correct to state that the EU will not be fining Apple. The transfer price policy mentioned in the article is indeed the major reason for the investigation. But the article is not correct in the consequences if the transfer prices are found to be artificially manipulated.
If the European commission finds that the transfer price rules in Ireland are indeed anti-competitive wrt to other member states, the EU will force Ireland to obey to the rules of Eurpean treaty. It can force Ireland to take action and to retroactiveley change its tax legislation. In such a case Apple (and other companies like Fiat) will be forced to pay additional taxes retroactively, but is Ireland and not the EU who would make Apple pay these additional taxes. In any case Apple will not be fined, as it complied to the rules, even if the rules are considered as anti-competitive.
Nothing was stoping other countries from offering incentives for companies to do business in their country.
CNET
http://www.cnet.com/news/apple-faces-billions-in-fines-in-tax-avoidance-probe/
There is no illegality in Ireland's corporate rate of 12.5%, its the extra incentives which are under investigation.
No need to wait, because Ireland has had a special tax rate for companies willing to invest there since the late 70's. It's the very same type of incentives that US States and regions use to spur economic growth and attract companies to invest and relocate.
BMW didn't set up shop in Carolina because they liked the cuisine.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/04/11/business/what-bmw-sees-in-south-carolina.html
The term Special Economic Zones came into wide usage about the same time China (Shenzen) and Ireland both implemented theirs to resounding success.
No later than 2 - 2.5 years ago, there was discussion to create Special Economic Zones in Greece and Portugal, as well as to include Ireland under a new charter.
http://go.bloomberg.com/euro-crisis/2012-05-29/greece-europes-new-special-economic-zone/
English: http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/germany-lists-us-in-special-economic-zone-plan-26857533.html
Der Spiegel (German) article that the above article references:
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/praesident-des-eu-parlaments-im-spiegel-interview-schulz-fordert-sonderwirtschaftszonen-fuer-griechenland-1.1456349
Japan jumping on the "new kid on the block opportunity":
http://www.forexlive.com/blog/2013/05/04/abe-to-draw-up-tax-breaks-special-economic-zones-and-more-to-encourage-business-economic-growth/
Considering that at one time in the not too distant past, Germany and France were lobbying EU Parliament to look into an SEZ to dampen the pain of bailing out Greece, Portugal, and Spain (repeatedly)... which entails special TAX INCENTIVES for investment and relocation.... what is NOW that they see went wrong with the very successful experiment in Ireland?
Yup... they forgot to get their own grubby hands into the cookie jar as much as they would've liked to. The functionaries are just looking for scapegoats so they themselves don't look bad, and to boost their standings on a populist witch-hunt.
The next time you throw up statistics could you include a source please. Without knowing where you got those numbers and how they were assessed, they have absolutely NO MEANING whatsoever. You could've pulled them outa yer pooper for all we know, so yes... they're dirty and full of "sh1t".
Ah, move the goalposts until you get it right. So you switched from the EU having no power over special Irish taxing agreements to having no power to fine Apple for making use of them. We all already knew the EU isn't after Apple but instead Ireland. Congrats on figuring out a way to be correct finally.
He moved no goalpost. His point remains the same. You either completely misunderstood what he's saying, or are being obtuse.
The fact is, he's right. Get over it.
Exactly.
Ireland was smart enough to offer a low rate and got tons of jobs in return.
EU is just trying to get media attention. The current board is up for re-election and I think this is just a political move nothing else.
You're spot on. You've said pretty much what there is to say on this topic. At this point, you're not going to convince the recalcitrants. Move on.
Another nice day in the call options market....
Nice try but debt per capita is only one measurement of a country's health. You also need to factor in economic growth and stability along with gross domestic product (GDP). In case you hadn't noticed, the U.S. is doing far better economically than the EU. Further, the U.S. has dramatically increased debt over the last few years fighting wars on 3 fronts to stop global terrorism and protect you. Give it a rest.
Ah, move the goalposts until you get it right.
Oh the sheer irony of you making that statement.
I would ask you to explain in little more detail but of course you wouldn't. You never do. :rolleyes: