The road ahead: 3 ways Apple could push Maps forward with iOS 9 in 2015

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 97
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Apple hires very good copywriters for Siri and they've done an excellent job adding replies that make "her" sound spontaneous and witty, more human like responses. Very well done. Google on the other hand is quite succinct in comparison. Wouldn't hurt them to add little humor now and then too.
    https://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/4563249

    http://www.technologyreview.com/view/509961/apple-looks-to-improve-siris-script/

    Humor doesn't work without understanding.
  • Reply 62 of 97
    mnbob1mnbob1 Posts: 269member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pfisher View Post

     

    Here is what I see problems with Apple Maps (some of the top of my head):

     

    1. Apple is proprietary - I don't believe they have a web-based map like Google to use on any computer. Now it is iOS or OS X.

    2. Lack of trails tracking - We have a nice interurban trail near my house. Apple Maps doesn't know about it. Google is much better at routes and alternative routes.

    3. Apple search is focused on specificity (Google is the opposite: more like guessing). So, if you don't type something VERY specific, you will not get the answer you are looking for. Google is much better at "guessing" what you may be looking for.

    4. Apple maps is not "connected". Google is great: I tell where I live and work and it is fully integrated with gmail account. Apple is very disjointed. Sorry, Apple is more and more a Microsoft company.

    5. Traffic not so great on Apple

    6. Streetview - sorry, I use it a lot

    7. Transit - fail for Apple, although they do have their workaround.

     

    As for accuracy, Apple and Google are, in my limited use, equally accurate/inaccurate. I hardly use Apple Maps, but when I have double-checked some things, I have found Google to be as right or as wrong as Apple. When I tried to find car repair in town, Google was way off. Apple was spot on. When I was trying to find my daughter's office in DC, Google led me around a park and said her office was at the the bus stop. Apple was spot on.

     

    Overall, much prefer Google maps. Not so much of their head start. I think Apple could have caught up on basic, fundamental, useful stuff. Who gives a crap about inside a building as Inkling said, we want to know how to get there.

     

    Old maps with Google and Apple partnering was awesome. Google has the info and Apple has the very tasteful and wonderful interface. Traveling around SF by foot and transit was a pure joy a few years ago on the iPhone.

     

    Anyway, said it before, but for all Apple talks about integration, much of their business, for the user, is a pure mess. Google has it nailed.

     

    Apple seems to have lost its focus on what users want. They seem focused on what they think is cool or useful - not always, but seems like it is happening more, such as the annual, mind-numbing updates to iOS and OS X. It's all a blur now on what's what. Before you could remember what each release brought. Now you can't even remember the names of the releases.

     

    Hope Apple gets street view. They can afford to license from Google or spend a couple of billion on it, or at least get transit going and fix be less "proprietary".

     

    Apple fan since 1981...Apple Mac user since 1990...


    You make some very good points. I use Maps exclusively and find it works well especially in it's interface with Contacts and Siri.



    Your issues:

    1. Why is this a problem?

    2. I have no experience with this. Have you reported it to Apple? If you have enough time to complain about it here you could improve Maps as well.

    3. Specificity vs. guessing. Whenever I start typing the name of a business maps begins to suggest answers right away based on my location. When I start typing an address it begins suggesting street names immediately. I've never have to type a full business name or address because Maps "guessed" what I was looking for based on my location. Do you Location Services turned off for Maps?

    4. Apple Maps works in a similar way but without giving Google access to your private information for advertising purposes. In iOS you create a Contact with your information and then set it as your "My Info" in Settings>Mail, Contacts, Calendars. The more information included in that contact the more accurate your searches will be for Maps. You can set relationships to other contacts within this contact for easier use as well. The easiest way to do that is using Siri. For example, if you have a contact for your boss under the name Joe Johnson tell Siri "Joe Johnson is my boss". Then when you want to call him you could tell Siri "Call my boss" or if you have a work address in your contact you could tell Siri "take me to work" or when you start typing work into the Maps search it will immediately guess that you want your work address. It does that with all of the relationships that you set in you default contact. Giving Google that kind of information scares me.

    5. I haven't had any problems with Maps traffic. In fact I drive from a south east suburb of Minneapolis/St. Paul to Target Field during baseball season. I always as Siri "What's the fastest way to Target Field?" Before I leave home. She has given me alternate directions as the primary route which I have doubted. I went against her direct once and found myself in horrible traffic. I never did it again and never regretted it.

    6. If StreetView is important to you then Google is the app for you. I have found the app sluggish without wifi or a strong LTE signal.

    7. Transit is something that Apple did miss the target on. Since I don't use public transit it's not a problem for me however it leaves a huge number of urban users out. If Apple fails to deliver on it in iOS 9 or before it's a big disappointment. iOS 7, iOS 8, Watch, Health, iPhone 6, Apple Pay have all taken resources but there is no excuse for ignoring the Maps interface. The data continues to get better behind the scenes. It's time to get the user interface up to date.

  • Reply 63 of 97
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,271member
    knowitall wrote: »
    It would be nice if the hundreds of billions that go to waste right now are used for a network of satellites showing realtime video of the earth and giving connections everywhere.
    Would be a big premium for iOS.
    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2015-01-17/elon-musk-and-spacex-plan-a-space-internet
    http://www.androidcentral.com/google-offers-satellite-imaging-data-non-profits-free
  • Reply 64 of 97
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    Siri unfortunately has lost knowledge of the moon phase. Whenever I think I see a full moon she responds that she has no info on that, while she used to respond with correct info. But alas, not since a few months now, perhaps since iOS 8(?)


    dewme wrote: »
     Siri and Maps continued to scream at me to turn to the freeway

    Wow, that sounds like a really cool feature. I've never gotten Siri to raise her voice, much less scream. Is it a shrill, high pitched, blood curdling "stranger just grabbed me in a dark alley" kind of scream or more like a "frustrated nagging whine" kind of scream that you get from your wife when you fail to ask for directions when you're lost?  

    Hilarious!

    knowitall wrote: »
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Apple hires very good copywriters for Siri and they've done an excellent job adding replies that make "her" sound spontaneous and witty, more human like responses. Very well done. Google on the other hand is quite succinct in comparison. Wouldn't hurt them to add little humor now and then too.
    https://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/4563249

    http://www.technologyreview.com/view/509961/apple-looks-to-improve-siris-script/

    Humor doesn't work without understanding.

    Apparently it also doesn't work anymore for those who cannot be taught anything anymore.
  • Reply 65 of 97
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post



    Siri unfortunately has lost knowledge of the moon phase. Whenever I think I see a full moon she responds that she has no info on that, while she used to respond with correct info. But alas, not since a few months now, perhaps since iOS 8(?)

     

    Does this correspond to the move to Bing as the search provider?

  • Reply 66 of 97
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,397member
    Quote:

     From the article: "...Apple patent applications that detail a system strikingly similar to Waze. Apple's approach would allow users to report accidents or other blockages and slowdowns, which would then be pushed to other drivers approaching the same area."


     

    I can see possibilities of mischief or more here via false reporting - tho' maybe it's a remote possibility - in the sense that any "crowd-sourced" data system is subject to gaming - depending on the number of reports required to trigger a change in what the system is showing locally.

     

    So hopefully the volume of reporters will be high enough to drown out any malicious "noise" in the system.



    But I can think of things that could be tried.  I wrote down a couple, but decided not to give anyone any particular ideas.... ...so aiming to caution the developers to account for the perversities of human nature as much as they can.

  • Reply 67 of 97
    I’m not sure if anyone else noticed, but Apple used to tout being leaders in “hardware, software, and services.” In Tim’s more recent interviews/statements, “services” has been left out. I hope this means that Apple is planning some big improvements in Maps and Siri soon.


     


    Here’s my Apple Maps compliment sandwich, with lots of ingredients (i.e. complaints):


     



    1. Interface: I love the interface, can’t think of any ways I would change it. It’s simple, clean, presents all necessary relevant information in a well organized way, and I love the automatic switching to night mode.

    2. Search: Searching for locations is TERRIBLE. It’s basic, COMMON SENSE (even to a non-tech oriented person like me) that “ave” “ave.” “avenue” should produce the same results. Not only does this not happen, but on some occasions I have been taken to a random location in Europe or Africa. I currently live in Texas. Most people here don’t even know where Europe is! (for those who don’t live here, I’m being facetious [somewhat]). In short: it's ridiculous to require exact inputs to find our destinations.

    3. Improve Siri: Siri has difficulty with some basic commands/words. For example, if I say “take me to Evan’s house,” I’ll get the response, “I don’t have a location for evan’s house,” even as Evan’s contact info is presented on screen with the address right there entitled “Address.” So if I then say, “take me to evan’s address,” it still does not work. Also, siri does not understand the word “tea,” even in the context of “tea shop,” “tea bar,” or “tea house,” I still get the same response, “I can’t find any T bars,” or something like that. On a related note, Siri does not have the word “oolong” in its vocabulary. Even though I’m a tea nut, I don’t think this is an uncommon word.

    4. Improve POI’s: Pretty self-explanatory. This has definitely been improving since the initial release.

    5. Transit directions.

    6. Omit toll road option.

    7. Surface roads only option.

    8. Better, more responsive traffic indicators.

    9. Driving directions: These are great. The timing is great. I like how effortlessly I’m guided back to my route when I, deliberately or otherwise, go off route. Although, a nice feature would be for siri to prompt “do you want to change your route” after a few missed turns (and when the next predicted turn is at least 0.2 miles away to give time to respond).

     


    NB: I use Apple Maps exclusively, so my comments do not reflect a perspective of comparison with other services.



     


    Some cool services I’d like to see (after the above is addressed):



    1. More flyover materials (particularly for interesting/useful places, like landmarks, ski resorts, etc.).

    2. Indoor mapping.

    3. Street view version of flyover (I believe Nokia/Navtech is the only one doing this at the moment). 

    4. Augmented reality (glanceable POI info, direction indicators, historical info, demographic info).

    5. Integration with services like Uber (Me: tap on nearest car, or say: “Siri, reserve the closest Uber car.” Siri: “Ok, the nearest car is 4 minutes away, do you want to reserve it?”.

  • Reply 68 of 97
    mcdave wrote: »
    I used to think Apple would never catch up but here in the provinces (New Zealand) Apple maps is now a better product. Over the last few months we've had 3D views of all inner & outer suburbs and commercial data which matches (& surpasses) google maps.

    For us, the only advantage google maps has over Apple is preconception.

    An immaculate post.
  • Reply 69 of 97
    I’m not sure if anyone else noticed, but Apple used to tout being leaders in “hardware, software, and services.” In Tim’s more recent interviews/statements, “services” has been left out. I hope this means that Apple is planning some big improvements in Maps and Siri soon.
     
    Here’s my Apple Maps compliment sandwich, with lots of ingredients (i.e. complaints):
     

    1. Interface: I love the interface, can’t think of any ways I would change it. It’s simple, clean, presents all necessary relevant information in a well organized way, and I love the automatic switching to night mode.
    2. Search: Searching for locations is TERRIBLE. It’s basic, COMMON SENSE (even to a non-tech oriented person like me) that “ave” “ave.” “avenue” should produce the same results. Not only does this not happen, but on some occasions I have been taken to a random location in Europe or Africa. I currently live in Texas. Most people here don’t even know where Europe is! (for those who don’t live here, I’m being facetious [somewhat]). In short: it's ridiculous to require exact inputs to find our destinations.
    3. Improve Siri: Siri has difficulty with some basic commands/words. For example, if I say “take me to Evan’s house,” I’ll get the response, “I don’t have a location for evan’s house,” even as Evan’s contact info is presented on screen with the address right there entitled “Address.” So if I then say, “take me to evan’s address,” it still does not work. Also, siri does not understand the word “tea,” even in the context of “tea shop,” “tea bar,” or “tea house,” I still get the same response, “I can’t find any T bars,” or something like that. On a related note, Siri does not have the word “oolong” in its vocabulary. Even though I’m a tea nut, I don’t think this is an uncommon word.
    4. Improve POI’s: Pretty self-explanatory. This has definitely been improving since the initial release.
    5. Transit directions.
    6. Omit toll road option.
    7. Surface roads only option.
    8. Better, more responsive traffic indicators.
    9. Driving directions: These are great. The timing is great. I like how effortlessly I’m guided back to my route when I, deliberately or otherwise, go off route. Although, a nice feature would be for siri to prompt “do you want to change your route” after a few missed turns (and when the next predicted turn is at least 0.2 miles away to give time to respond).
     
    NB: I use Apple Maps exclusively, so my comments do not reflect a perspective of comparison with other services.

     
    Some cool services I’d like to see (after the above is addressed):

    1. More flyover materials (particularly for interesting/useful places, like landmarks, ski resorts, etc.).
    2. Indoor mapping.
    3. Street view version of flyover (I believe Nokia/Navtech is the only one doing this at the moment). 
    4. Augmented reality (glanceable POI info, direction indicators, historical info, demographic info).
    5. Integration with services like Uber (Me: tap on nearest car, or say: “Siri, reserve the closest Uber car.” Siri: “Ok, the nearest car is 4 minutes away, do you want to reserve it?”.

    Nice post.

    Polished to a T.
  • Reply 70 of 97
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    philboogie wrote: »
    Siri unfortunately has lost knowledge of the moon phase. Whenever I think I see a full moon she responds that she has no info on that, while she used to respond with correct info. But alas, not since a few months now, perhaps since iOS 8(?)

    Does this correspond to the move to Bing as the search provider?

    Good question. But I think she still relies on Wolfram Alpha for many things, including the moon phase.
  • Reply 71 of 97

    10 Tips and Tricks to Make Siri More Useful

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate View Post

     

    Improve Siri: Siri has difficulty with some basic commands/words. For example, if I say “take me to Evan’s house,” I’ll get the response, “I don’t have a location for evan’s house,” even as Evan’s contact info is presented on screen with the address right there entitled “Address.” So if I then say, “take me to evan’s address,” it still does not work. Also, siri does not understand the word “tea,” even in the context of “tea shop,” “tea bar,” or “tea house,” I still get the same response, “I can’t find any T bars,” or something like that. On a related note, Siri does not have the word “oolong” in its vocabulary. Even though I’m a tea nut, I don’t think this is an uncommon word.

     



    Some cool services I’d like to see (after the above is addressed):



    1. More flyover materials (particularly for interesting/useful places, like landmarks, ski resorts, etc.). Time and money. Lots of it. And I doubt you would be willing to pay for it.

    2. Indoor mapping. Requires GPS and that is virtually impossible unless you are standing on the roof directly above the spot you wish to locate. 

    3. Street view version of flyover (I believe Nokia/Navtech is the only one doing this at the moment). As in 1.

    4. Augmented reality (glanceable POI info, direction indicators, historical info, demographic info). Time and money.

    5. Integration with services like Uber (Me: tap on nearest car, or say: “Siri, reserve the closest Uber car.” Siri: “Ok, the nearest car is 4 minutes away, do you want to reserve it?”.  Time and money. And too many problems. And if you really wanted to use it, get the APP and have Siri open it for you.



     

     

    Siri is like a new baby. It needs time to learn. And it needs YOU to be patient in training it to do so.

     

    Note that Siri is a like talking to a stranger. Listen and speak carefully. Enunciate properly! Both of you.

     

    "T" is too generic. Try, "I would like to have some tea" Don't be too specific. For example, try "I would like to have some HOT tea," and Siri will tell you why it can't deliver. By the way, Siri did find, "Where can I find oolong tea?" for me.

     

    Teach Siri to pronounce contact names correctly. Names are too generic. Again, you are asking a stranger not your assistant. Add names PHONETICALLY in Contacts: and add for example their location, e.g., "evans home"

     

    And here are some great tips from Popular Mechanics' 4 Ways to Improve Your Relationship With Siri

     

    How to improve Siri by using phonetic names?

    10 Siri Tricks To Help You Be Your Most Productive Self

    10 Tips and Tricks to Make Siri More Useful

  • Reply 72 of 97
    croprcropr Posts: 1,129member
    I don't know if it is a local problem, but here in Belgium Apple Maps is not so reliable as Google Maps. I used it around a dozen times since it was launched and in 2 occassions it showed the correct street in the wrong city. It has even more issues understanding spoken addresses, especially the ones in Dutch (Belgium has 2 regions: a French speaking and a Dutch speaking). Google Maps have no issues with Dutch addresses or wrong cities, so currently I am sticking to Google Maps
  • Reply 73 of 97
    pfisherpfisher Posts: 758member
    mnbob1 wrote: »

    My 17 year-old daughter has problems with cables. I was worried until I observed her removing it from the phone by pulling on the cable instead of the connector. Investing in higher quality cables helps as well.

    For myself at least I'm very gentle with the cables and mine fell apart after a few months. I feel that if I pay $900 for a phone then the cable should last awhile. On the other hand, the headphones are nearly indestructible.
  • Reply 74 of 97
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mnbob1 View Post

     

    My 17 year-old daughter has problems with cables. I was worried until I observed her removing it from the phone by pulling on the cable instead of the connector. Investing in higher quality cables helps as well.




    My uncle was an electrical engineer. He used to tell us as kids how many times equipment failed because of people doing exactly what you daughter was doing. That and people plugging the connector on an angle, in and/or out.

     

    Spending more money on so-called 'higher quality cables' isn't necessarily the best answer.

     

    By the way, I've seen a lot of iPhones plugged in with their cables curled or jammed up by against walls, books, pillows, etc., or stuffed in their pockets and backpacks still connected.

  • Reply 75 of 97
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Westcoast8 View Post

     



    My uncle was an electrical engineer. He used to tell us as kids how many times equipment failed because of people doing exactly what you daughter was doing. That and people plugging the connector on an angle, in and/or out.

     

    Spending more money on so-called 'higher quality cables' isn't necessarily the best answer.

     

    By the way, I've seen a lot of iPhones plugged in with their cables curled or jammed up by against walls, books, pillows, etc., or stuffed in their pockets and backpacks still connected.




    In at least ten years of dealing with cables for Apple notebooks, iPhones, iPads, I've never had one fail or give me a moment's grief. But I treat cables as relatively delicate devices, i.e., when wrapping the cables around power bricks, iPhones, I make certain the portion that attaches to the device is as straight as possible with as little tension on the cable. That's all it takes, along with using the connector to plug / unplug the cable. 

     

    Sure, Apple could ship their products with military grade cables and such, but that would be a waste of materials and would add considerably to the cost. 

  • Reply 76 of 97
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mnbob1 View Post

     

    You make some very good points. I use Maps exclusively and find it works well especially in it's interface with Contacts and Siri.



    Your issues:

    1. Why is this a problem?

    2. I have no experience with this. Have you reported it to Apple? If you have enough time to complain about it here you could improve Maps as well.

    3. Specificity vs. guessing. Whenever I start typing the name of a business maps begins to suggest answers right away based on my location. When I start typing an address it begins suggesting street names immediately. I've never have to type a full business name or address because Maps "guessed" what I was looking for based on my location. Do you Location Services turned off for Maps?

    4. Apple Maps works in a similar way but without giving Google access to your private information for advertising purposes. In iOS you create a Contact with your information and then set it as your "My Info" in Settings>Mail, Contacts, Calendars. The more information included in that contact the more accurate your searches will be for Maps. You can set relationships to other contacts within this contact for easier use as well. The easiest way to do that is using Siri. For example, if you have a contact for your boss under the name Joe Johnson tell Siri "Joe Johnson is my boss". Then when you want to call him you could tell Siri "Call my boss" or if you have a work address in your contact you could tell Siri "take me to work" or when you start typing work into the Maps search it will immediately guess that you want your work address. It does that with all of the relationships that you set in you default contact. Giving Google that kind of information scares me.

    5. I haven't had any problems with Maps traffic. In fact I drive from a south east suburb of Minneapolis/St. Paul to Target Field during baseball season. I always as Siri "What's the fastest way to Target Field?" Before I leave home. She has given me alternate directions as the primary route which I have doubted. I went against her direct once and found myself in horrible traffic. I never did it again and never regretted it.

    6. If StreetView is important to you then Google is the app for you. I have found the app sluggish without wifi or a strong LTE signal.

    7. Transit is something that Apple did miss the target on. Since I don't use public transit it's not a problem for me however it leaves a huge number of urban users out. If Apple fails to deliver on it in iOS 9 or before it's a big disappointment. iOS 7, iOS 8, Watch, Health, iPhone 6, Apple Pay have all taken resources but there is no excuse for ignoring the Maps interface. The data continues to get better behind the scenes. It's time to get the user interface up to date.


    1. It's good to access to the same map service from any device, not just Apple hardware, whether on my Windows PC for work, MacBook or Chromebook.

    2. Trails should be on their list. It was on Google's list and they have it nailed. I haven't reported this to Apple. I'm sure they can scrape data from all of the other users posting to their forums. It's probably not a priority with Maps so far behind.

    3. Specific/"guessing". I type in DOL  into Maps. Gives me the chamber of commerce for city 50 miles away. I type in Dept of Licensing and it gives me a DOL office 100 miles in the other direction. I type in Department of Licensing and it gives me the DOL offices (not the closest one highlighted, but far away and I do have location services on). I type DOL into Google Maps and it hits it spot on and gives me other guesses as well. 

    Apple is based on the specificity in their databases. If you don't input "correctly" you won't get the correct or any output. Google seems to extrapolate the information you type in based on crowdsources. This is why Google search works so well. 

    4. No big deal to put address into Google. It guesses anyway after enough trips and you checking traffic. 

    5. I turn off Siri whenever I get a new phone. I find it very annoying to have to learn how it works. And I don't care for Siri trying to be "cute". I'll take robot woman from Google any day of the week. I know I'm talking to software and if it's a robot/software, fine, but I'm not going to pretend I'm talking to real artificial intelligence. I need to know what is the fastest way to get somewhere with Siri? With Google I just say, "Directions to XX" and it gives the fastest and alternative routes. Just a preference.

    6. Streetview - not a deal breaker. You can use it when you need to do so.

    7. Transit - same. Not a deal breaker for Apple. Apps out there do what seems to be the same as Google.

     

    As long as Apple focuses on being proprietary (OS X Maps & not web-based) and trying to be cute by making flyovers look pretty and not be accurate (Devil's Canyon example), then they are obviously not focused on the right things for software and services. I no longer use any Apple software if there are alternatives, as those alternatives are better. Same for services, like photo backup/iPhone, which is very confusing right now. They just need to slow down on the new features and fix what they have. It's not like no one is buying Apple products. They sell themselves. And most people wouldn't care if Apple stopped and polished what they have. That includes Maps.

  • Reply 77 of 97
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RegurgitatedCoprolite View Post

     



    In at least ten years of dealing with cables for Apple notebooks, iPhones, iPads, I've never had one fail or give me a moment's grief. But I treat cables as relatively delicate devices, i.e., when wrapping the cables around power bricks, iPhones, I make certain the portion that attaches to the device is as straight as possible with as little tension on the cable. That's all it takes, along with using the connector to plug / unplug the cable. 

     

    Sure, Apple could ship their products with military grade cables and such, but that would be a waste of materials and would add considerably to the cost. 


     

    The reviews are not kind.

     

    http://store.apple.com/uk/reviews/ME291ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-cable-05m

  • Reply 78 of 97
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pfisher View Post

     

     

    The reviews are not kind.

     

    http://store.apple.com/uk/reviews/ME291ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-cable-05m




    My reviews are.

     

    My wife and I have used iPhones since the original 2G, and 3GS, 4, 4S, 5s. In all that time and using many cables, they've all held up fine. And like I stated, we treat our Apple products as though we paid good money for them and care about them so they last. We don't treat cables as bailing wire, and we don't throw our iPhones and iPads around like I sometimes see others doing. As for another poster saying Apple's cables 'fall apart' after a few months, I don't buy it. I'd like to see how s/he uses the equipment. 

  • Reply 79 of 97
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RegurgitatedCoprolite View Post

     

    Sure, Apple could ship their products with military grade cables and such, but that would be a waste of materials and would add considerably to the cost. 


     

    Military grade is another ball of wax. Regarding adding a tapered rubber cone at the plug, I think the average iPhone user (i.e. one who finds the cable of low durability) would pay a dollar more to prevent an otherwise unnecessary $20 purchase in six months. 

  • Reply 80 of 97
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    mnbob1 wrote: »
    My wife does the same thing. When we are on a trip she digs out ancient maps from her files. Some don't even have the Interstate system completed! And we all know real men don't ask directions!

    I never ask for directions, I ask for guidance. :lol:
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