Im excited to see this in person! I can definitely see some of this design language carrying over to the pro in a few years, like how the 2010 Macbook Air influenced the 2012 Macbook Pro (flash, no drives).
The Air didn't influence the design of the MBP's, the move to solid state storage was for the most part mandatory to continue to increase system performance. The only hold up for the Mac Pro was getting pro class SSD capacity.
At the time people moaned about the lack of storage and no superdrive, and swore if they took them from the pro they would never upgrade.
For many people the lack of storage space in a Mac Book Pro is still an issue. In fact it is probably the only reason Apple has kept the old models around for so long.
And just a couple years later hardly anyone gives a shit about the superdrive, and the whole market has followed accordingly. The lack of ports are annoying, sure, but everyone needs to realise they will most likely market this as a simple consumer product, not for professionals.
I have no problem with a consumer targeted machine, however the big issue here is that not all professionals need a Mac Book Pro. On the same hand this rumored machine isn't exactly suitable either, the primary issue being the lack of standard ports.
What built the success of apple? A focus on the average consumer. This is not a professional notebook.
Actually Apples notebooks have been a massive success story.
The professional version in a few years will probably have an array of ports, being the differentiator between models. They need something to make a clear difference. Now with the Air going retina and getting a glass bezel, they are getting closer and closer to becoming the same machine.
That is totally asinine, the whole reason for the MBPs is performance. Apple would be totally nuts to give that up for an ultra thin machine. MBPs target an entirely different market than the Airs and will continue to do so, you will not find many MBP users not wanting even better performance out of their next machine.
I can see the lineup in 2-3 years as notebooks as thin and simple as this, only the pro is faster, has different screen sizes, and more connectivity for the professionals.. but still limited compared to todays offering.
Then it wouldn't be a MBP then would it? The last thing MBP users need is a limited machine.
At absolute minimum 2 USB 3.1 ports so professionals aren't forced to go off battery power and lower performance when connecting to an external device. I believe getting rid of dedicated charing port is just ridiculous in the first place (what about all their success with proprietary ports with Lighting and Magsafe, now they're moving to USB??).
If they actually do drop a dedicated charging port for one USB port it will be the ultimate in stupidity on Apples part. They might redeem themsleves somewhat if the charger also functions as a hub with a number of ports on it. In the end I just don't get a warm fuzzy feeling about a single port on this rumored machine.
Despite all of this I am still shocked at how little is rumored to be on this machine. 1 port for all charging and connectivity, which isn't even the standard USB port or their heavily pushed Thunderbolt port?
The biggest issue I see is the number of ports, especially if that port is occupied by a charger. The compatibility of USB C style connectors is also a real issue but I see far more importance here of having more ports accessible in the field. The dropping of the SD port just makes things worst as you don't even have that as an option to replace the thumb drive storage device. The SD port is actually kinda nice on the Airs as it supplements the internal SSD for bulk storage.
1. Either call the old MacBook Air 12", or the new one 11.6 retina I highly doubt Apple change their form factor. 2. The reason ipad and iPhone doesn't have a backlit logo is because it has a logic board and a battery in the middle. If the new logo is made by a separate material, Apple just need to switch to acrylic to make lit. (I highly doubt for a screen that thin, they put anything behind the screen. )
Hmmm... If the current Air is way too big and heavy, and needs to be super thin, have a Retina screen, all day battery life, just one port and a headphone jack (or no ports at all!) AND it would be awesome if it could go down in price and meet a bigger market...
Don't people realize that there already IS such a Mac? An iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard...
Well not exactly. Admittedly the iPAds are sometimes the better machine for many users but there are good reasons to prefer Mac OS/X over IOS.
Seriously, just make a 13 inch IPad and be done with it. The ironic thing is, that if someone can live with a sub 10watt MacBook Air without any ports, chances are that they're nt doing anything with their computer that requires an Intel CPU and OSX, but could get by just fine with iOS on an A7...
The big IPad is coming if the rumors are true. However that doesn't make it a Mac OS machine. I think people often mis a big point here, Mac OS gives the users some significant advantages over IOS.
Gotta say I don't see the advantage of a fanless CPU. The CoreM CPUs have turned out rather anaemic, and I'd much prefer a fan that rarely goes off, but has the potential to perform a lot higher when necessary, than a fanless CPU that's always stuck at low MHZ performance.
I try to maintains a balanced view point here. A fanless machine could certianly serve the needs of some users. However the rather anemic performace you point out indicates that the technology just isn't there yet. We may need to see another process shrink with SkyLake follow on cores.
The only time where the fan in my MacBook Air turns on, is when I start playing 3D games: XCom, call of duty, etc.
It will be very interesting to see what actually happens here when somebody attempts to run these games on a fanless core M. Not just games by the way, any use of 3D may become a problem. How well this all works out will depend a great deal upon how advanced Apples heat sinking methods are. I can't see Apple getting good results without attaching the die directly to an Aluminum or carbon fiber case. In effect the case would become the heat sink.
I wonder if a MacBook Air with a Core M CPU would be able to play those at all...
Probably not at full performance. I'm not even convinced yet that the CPU can run at full performance for long without throttling. If this machine is real there will be long discussion about its performance in the blogo sphere. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Apple delivers the best performance in its class but that might not be saying much. We need to remember that current Core M implementations haven't been the best possible.
In any event this performance issue is why I'm really hoping that the original MBA go retina and Briadwell and stay on the market. Broadwell is an ideal upgrade processor for the current MBA's, add retina and a better SSD (bigger base storage) and you have a nice upgrade.
The location and placement of the antenna doesn't matter. You still need a radio window, such as the Apple logo on MacBooks and iPads, that the radio signals can pass through.
Have you ever heard of a Farraday cage? It is an all-metal enclosure that prevents radio signals from getting in and out. An all-metal laptop without a radio window is like a Farraday cage, and will give awful wireless performance.
It would only have poor performance if the casing blocked the signal from the antenna. The antenna is encased in the plastic hinge, having the signal passing through the Apple logo does little to benefit it when the signals are bouncing all over the place. You can test it out, cover the Apple logo with anything that blocks the wifi and see if the signal drops out.
Not that I'd rather they do away with the illuminated logo, it's cool, but that's all it is, it's not functional.
But most people still use USB ports for lots of things. And most of them use more than one at a time often enough that it would be a real irritant, to have to choose between charging your laptop and charging your iPhone... Or using your keyboard or plugging in a USB HD.
There's no stats on what most people do but we also don't know for certain if there will be just one USB C port. That doesn't really make much sense considering the laptop shown has enough room for more and a TB port and a 3.5mm jack and an SD reader.
If there was a single port design, I'd even consider that it might be a Lightning port on an ARM product - effectively an iPad in a laptop form factor running desktop software. That would be intended to rely on the cloud or local wifi storage. This would be suitable for the same people who can live with an iPad as their only device.
With tethering so common these days and Yosemite making it easier than ever to do so, I'm thinking the days of expecting Apple to include cellular chips and antennas in Mac notebooks is long over.
We also have wifi available in most places where someone is likely to open their notebook for an extended period of time. I suspect cellular connectivity is only a significant factor for a small percentage of individuals, mainly those that would use it for work reasons. For those people, tethering should work almost as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
The Air didn't influence the design of the MBP's, the move to solid state storage was for the most part mandatory to continue to increase system performance. The only hold up for the Mac Pro was getting pro class SSD capacity.
The old mac pro actually had a cto ssd option. It was just not an exceptional value. It was around $1000 for a "typical" 512GB ssd.
We also have wifi available in most places where someone is likely to open their notebook for an extended period of time. I suspect cellular connectivity is only a significant factor for a small percentage of individuals, mainly those that would use it for work reasons. For those people, tethering should work almost as well.
Good point. WiFi, too, has become very widespread since I first wanted Apple to release a cellular capable PowerBook (I used to pay for a large and ugly USB 2.0 dongle). There was also was claimed to be a Mac notebook prototype with cellular built-in, including a protruding antenna on the display, that sold on eBay some years back. The prototype was from many years earlier; I think the PowerBook days, but I could be mistaken. Too me, that was the era this would have happened if Apple was going to do it.
edit: Looks like it was one of the first MacBook Pros, not a PowerBook.
I still think it was an influence, but maybe a better way to put it is the Air introduced technology which at the time was restricting and expensive, which later the Pro would take on.
Either way the trend with laptops has been the same for decades more power in a lighter chassis.
My point is if the Pro took those changes at the time the first Air did, professional users would of raged... if they lost battery life, storage capacity was halved and the superdrive went missing. Sure storage space is still an issue to some, but Apple obviously see's it as manageable enough to release pro computers with the capacities they have. And they sell, even in a declining market, so I would say they were right. We all know Apple, profits profits profits, the less they can get away with the better for them.
What is interesting here is that the declining market is mostly Windows hardware. Apples products are actually a growth area for the company.
Yes not all professional users get the Pro, which is probably why they will continue the 13 inch Air for those in between. The lack of ports is, how I see it, Apples way of jumping and encouraging future tech (which at this point looks like wirelessly streaming everything).
Except that wireless will never be widely accepted in the professional world.
Eliminating disk drives was a step (and I believe if they hadn't pushed it we'd still see a number of notebooks cramming them in), which at the time seemed forced, but its managed to shape the market. Eliminating ports I agree is a huge step, perhaps a step too far, but I think that is how they will see this machine. Whether its a success or not, who knows.
You might be missing my point here, I see a success here, my point is that it isn't the machine for me.
They aren't going to release a Pro product like this straight off the bat, it wouldn't take. They will ease it in as a less powerful computer, marketed as extremely simple and portable, and the traits that seem to success may, eventually, find their way to the pro. Like the original Air. Im not just talking ports, but the smaller computer footprint/fanless/clickless trackpad... this is the design language I refer to when I say the Pro will most likely follow in a few years.
There is no way that they can deliver a fanless MBP in the next few years and make Pro users happy. You already have people wondering, some actually bitching, about the lackluster upgrades to the MBP over the last two years. Going fanless would be asinine.
Yes Apples notebooks are a massive success story, I never said they weren't. Apple has a lot of success stories. But I was referring to the resurrection of Apple in the early 00's, where CONSUMER products are what bought them the success which turned the company around. Remember the original iMac? This product doesn't need to be aimed at the professionals to succeed. Consider this notebook a preview to the future, not a current flagship notebook.
Well look at It this way, the current Airs have not diminished the MBP lines so why would this machine?
The whole reason for a Pro is performance, you are right. Who says it'd loose performance with this design language?
You have no idea what a pro expects out of a computer do you? It isn't just about processor performance, connectivity is a big issue.
If Apple released a next gen Pro in 2-3 years, it wouldn't need to be under performing.
If it went fanless sure it would be underperforming. It is the nature of the beast higher performance means more heat.
I'm only talking about connectivity, which in a few years, streaming and wireless tech could have actually taken off enough for Apple to consider their Pro notebook to loose a few ports. Im sure there were some fuming professional users when the superdrive was eliminated, even after the Air lost it years before.
Again I don't think you have a clue here.
I'm talking about the future, clearly all speculation, but to say this is all stupid and less ports is ridiculous is a bit narrow minded. I'm trying to imagine what their approach may be, if this is the direction they are taking. Hell, this could be an experiment for them and they may not even have an approach. Or even better, this rumour could be complete bullshit and this is all a worthless discussion. All I'm doing is giving my thoughts on what purpose Apple taking ports off a computer could be for. And if history repeats itself, this could be the start of next gen notebooks, which today looks ridiculously limiting and stupid, but in a few years could be the norm and would make so much sense.
I suspect we have massively different ideas as to what is acceptable for a Pro computer. To put things in perspective I don't see any laptop in the near future being powerful enough to meet emerging needs. It just won't happen because software becomes more demanding every year and more and more apps want to break away from desktops and clusters. As such there is no way to get away from fan cooled processors in the near future. People will want laptops that can deliver all the performance possible which is what the MBP line targets.
2020 me: "Hey remember when computers had ports and we had to physically connect everything? God how difficult was that!"
The future you are looking at is farther away than 2020. Some users can go that way sooner but the majority of Pro users will just need better hardware.
Comments
The biggest issue I see is the number of ports, especially if that port is occupied by a charger. The compatibility of USB C style connectors is also a real issue but I see far more importance here of having more ports accessible in the field. The dropping of the SD port just makes things worst as you don't even have that as an option to replace the thumb drive storage device. The SD port is actually kinda nice on the Airs as it supplements the internal SSD for bulk storage.
I highly doubt Apple change their form factor.
2. The reason ipad and iPhone doesn't have a backlit logo is because it has a logic board and a battery in the middle.
If the new logo is made by a separate material, Apple just need to switch to acrylic to make lit.
(I highly doubt for a screen that thin, they put anything behind the screen. )
Probably not at full performance. I'm not even convinced yet that the CPU can run at full performance for long without throttling. If this machine is real there will be long discussion about its performance in the blogo sphere. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Apple delivers the best performance in its class but that might not be saying much. We need to remember that current Core M implementations haven't been the best possible.
In any event this performance issue is why I'm really hoping that the original MBA go retina and Briadwell and stay on the market. Broadwell is an ideal upgrade processor for the current MBA's, add retina and a better SSD (bigger base storage) and you have a nice upgrade.
It would only have poor performance if the casing blocked the signal from the antenna. The antenna is encased in the plastic hinge, having the signal passing through the Apple logo does little to benefit it when the signals are bouncing all over the place. You can test it out, cover the Apple logo with anything that blocks the wifi and see if the signal drops out.
Not that I'd rather they do away with the illuminated logo, it's cool, but that's all it is, it's not functional.
There's no stats on what most people do but we also don't know for certain if there will be just one USB C port. That doesn't really make much sense considering the laptop shown has enough room for more and a TB port and a 3.5mm jack and an SD reader.
If there was a single port design, I'd even consider that it might be a Lightning port on an ARM product - effectively an iPad in a laptop form factor running desktop software. That would be intended to rely on the cloud or local wifi storage. This would be suitable for the same people who can live with an iPad as their only device.
With tethering so common these days and Yosemite making it easier than ever to do so, I'm thinking the days of expecting Apple to include cellular chips and antennas in Mac notebooks is long over.
We also have wifi available in most places where someone is likely to open their notebook for an extended period of time. I suspect cellular connectivity is only a significant factor for a small percentage of individuals, mainly those that would use it for work reasons. For those people, tethering should work almost as well.
The Air didn't influence the design of the MBP's, the move to solid state storage was for the most part mandatory to continue to increase system performance. The only hold up for the Mac Pro was getting pro class SSD capacity.
The old mac pro actually had a cto ssd option. It was just not an exceptional value. It was around $1000 for a "typical" 512GB ssd.
Good point. WiFi, too, has become very widespread since I first wanted Apple to release a cellular capable PowerBook (I used to pay for a large and ugly USB 2.0 dongle). There was also was claimed to be a Mac notebook prototype with cellular built-in, including a protruding antenna on the display, that sold on eBay some years back. The prototype was from many years earlier; I think the PowerBook days, but I could be mistaken. Too me, that was the era this would have happened if Apple was going to do it.
edit: Looks like it was one of the first MacBook Pros, not a PowerBook.