As is noted, research is ongoing. Considering all that science gets wrong (or flat out lies about), healthy skepticism of any scientific theory is essential.
The two principal abiogenic petroleum theories, the deep gas theory of Thomas Gold and the deep abiotic petroleum theory, have been scientifically discredited and are obsolete.[1] Scientific opinion on the origin of fossil fuels is that almost all fossil fuels on earth are not abiogenic in origin....It is generally accepted that abiogenic formation of petroleum has insufficient scientific support and that fossil fuels are formed almost exclusively from organic material.[5]
In other news, research on evolution, the age of the earth, and the effects of doubling the atmosphere's level of carbon dioxide on global temperatures is ongoing as well.
As someone once said, it pays to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.
In other news, research on evolution, the age of the earth, and the effects of doubling the atmosphere's level of carbon dioxide on global temperatures is ongoing as well.
As someone once said, it pays to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.
What an excellent example of bias! You conveniently edited this part out.
Quote:
There are a few abiogenic petroleum theories which are still subject to ongoing research and which typically seek to explain the existence of smaller quantities of fossil fuels.
Thanks for demonstrating why scientists aren't to be trusted wholly. Bravo.
Seems like a great place. In the US, the solar panels don't fit into the decor very well. Has Germany made them blend into the architecture more naturally?
The pictures I've seen don't blend in very well, unless you like dark blue everywhere.
But I just did a search, and Germany seem very progressive with roof tiles and shingles that have integrated PV panels in them, and they do look a lot better (if you like a dark roof).
Think of how much area the roof of the Spaceship could be used to hold solar panels.
Quote:
I'm pro nuclear, but thorium-based reactors are new to me.
I had high hopes that Steven Chu (Obama's Secretary of Energy) would pursue more efficient reactors, specifically thorium, but it never happened. It would take government-level research to commercialize it. India is one of the countries pursuing it now. Micro nukes are being pursued by several companies now. It just takes soooooo long to commercialize anything nuclear, for obvious reasons.
I'm all for green, but butchering all that land for solar panels is such a waste, and a shame. I'm in Monterey often and it breaks my heart to see this kind of destruction going on.
I so hope fusion energy comes into play soon, or some modern-tech nuclear power. I'm gonna get flamed for it, but massive swaths of land for energy is not the way.
Solar farms wastes land, Windmills kills thousands of birds a year, solar collectors fry birds in mid-air... there is a cost.
Me no like this.
Sounds like this is in the southern part of the county, and in a town that has abandoned mines. Not exactly an environmentally sensitive area, and the south part of the county also has several square miles of oil fields that date back to the 1950s. Those oil fields have not been particularly productive for many years, and have been the subject of a debate whether to allow fracking in Monterey County. In the context of the land areas in that part of the county, and in comparison with the oil extraction, aggregate mining, and other resource extraction activity already occurring, 1,300 acres for a solar field is a relatively small impact.
I'm all for green, but butchering all that land for solar panels is such a waste, and a shame. I'm in Monterey often and it breaks my heart to see this kind of destruction going on.
I so hope fusion energy comes into play soon, or some modern-tech nuclear power. I'm gonna get flamed for it, but massive swaths of land for energy is not the way.
Solar farms wastes land, Windmills kills thousands of birds a year, solar collectors fry birds in mid-air... there is a cost.
Me no like this.
Thanks for the lunacy comment. It wouldn't be a day on the Net without one.
The pictures I've seen don't blend in very well, unless you like dark blue everywhere.
But I just did a search, and Germany seem very progressive with roof tiles and shingles that have integrated PV panels in them, and they do look a lot better (if you like a dark roof).
[image]
I think that blends very well from what I'm used to in the US.
Ok where is their solar program financial data and projections then? Is it a secret?
There is a reason FSLR and ESLR and other solar companies have done crummy.
What is the opportunity cost of not using natural gas instead?
I am not saying solar is totally crazy, but individual panel efficiency drops fast over time and rare earth metal materials will largely increase in price over time.
It is not as if the panels dont eventually have to be thrown away. The panels often have toxic rare earth compounds too. People make solar out as something that will save the human race. There is no indication of this yet with current photovoltaics.
With nanotech methods, as panel efficiency and longevity increses, MAYBE they will look very smart.
Has there been major improvements in how effectively solar energy is harvested? What about costs of materials?
Uh oh! I fear this thread is about to get trolled into oblivion but the FOX News watching, anti-technology, aluminium foil hat-wearing, conspiracy theorists.
Right. Like the comments that excessive snow fall proves there is no such thing ... I guess the energy to produce all that moisture to make the record breaking falls came from .... mmm ... I can't think of anything to say there but 'from space' which would be accurate.
The devil's in the details. Those solar highways are made of glass panels. Roadway materials have to handle high stress loads and different weather conditions, and last for many years. What are the tolerances in the seams between the panels? How do those panels handle elevation changes? What happens when the glass breaks or wears down over time? How much grip do those surfaces provide in bad weather? What happens to drainage if the material cannot absorb water?
All kinds of questions about simple practical everyday usage that haven't been answered yet.
Ok where is their solar program financial data and projections then? Is it a secret?
There is a reason FSLR and ESLR and other solar companies have done crummy.
What is the opportunity cost of not using natural gas instead?
I am not saying solar is totally crazy, but individual panel efficiency drops fast over time and rare earth metal materials will largely increase in price over time.
It is not as if the panels dont eventually have to be thrown away. The panels often have toxic rare earth compounds too. People make solar out as something that will save the human race. There is no indication of this yet with current photovoltaics.
With nanotech methods, as panel efficiency and longevity increses, MAYBE they will look very smart.
I don't disagree we need to keep researching for a better technology to harness solar radiation, that's a given. After all fossil fuels are exactly that, the snag is they are finite and break down chemically into a lot of unwanted greenhouse gasses when oxidized to release the energy they captured from the sun eons ago.
Stanford University calculated the amount of energy used to create every solar panel ever made and the amount of energy produced by all of those solar panels. We might reach the break even point by 2018.
More importantly, California is in a drought. Studies have shown that California has had drought of up to 240 years long in the past. Where is all the water going to come from to keep all these solar panels clean so that they produce electricity?
In other news, research on evolution, the age of the earth, and the effects of doubling the atmosphere's level of carbon dioxide on global temperatures is ongoing as well.
As someone once said, it pays to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.
Stanford University calculated the amount of energy used to create every solar panel ever made and the amount of energy produced by all of those solar panels. We might reach the break even point by 2018.
So you're saying their conclusion is that doing nothing would bring more energy into Apple's campus than creating the solar farm? What about the energy used for petroleum, wind and natural gas?
More importantly, California is in a drought. Studies have shown that California has had drought of up to 240 years long in the past. Where is all the water going to come from to keep all these solar panels clean so that they produce electricity?
I agree. I believe the climate changes. Of course it does. Just look outside everyday. Do we have as large an impact on it as everyone seems think (thank you media for sensationalizing it just to get views)? I don't think so. Do we have an effect? sure, but it's probably more akin to spitting into the ocean compared to other things. If you look back at reports and media from the 1970s several of the headlines would've sounded like they came from today, except they were about global cooling.
There really isn't enough data yet to determine these things yet. The atmosphere is one complex machine and many factors are in play. We are looking at a small pin hole in the wall and claiming the entire structure is going to fall. These warming/cooling periods are probably cyclical and largely out of our control. Source? I have none/don't remember.
All said and done, I'm all for solar. I'm glad apple is doing this. Great way for them to save money and reduce reliance on oil for when we do run out.
Stanford University calculated the amount of energy used to create every solar panel ever made and the amount of energy produced by all of those solar panels. We might reach the break even point by 2018.
More importantly, California is in a drought. Studies have shown that California has had drought of up to 240 years long in the past. Where is all the water going to come from to keep all these solar panels clean so that they produce electricity?
OT perhaps but when I was in Vancouver recently a taxi driver commented to me that 'he didn't know why American wanted to transport oil from Canada given we had plenty of our own fossil fuel sources now, what we should be doing is piping water down the west coast, Vancouver had plenty to spare!'
Ok where is their solar program financial data and projections then? Is it a secret?
There is a reason FSLR and ESLR and other solar companies have done crummy.
What is the opportunity cost of not using natural gas instead?
I am not saying solar is totally crazy, but individual panel efficiency drops fast over time and rare earth metal materials will largely increase in price over time.
It is not as if the panels dont eventually have to be thrown away. The panels often have toxic rare earth compounds too. People make solar out as something that will save the human race. There is no indication of this yet with current photovoltaics.
With nanotech methods, as panel efficiency and longevity increses, MAYBE they will look very smart.
You need to read up on oil and natural gas production in North Dakota. There it is apparent that minimally regulated energy production comes at a very steep social and environmental price.
The amount of natural gas and methane released to the atmosphere in oil production is staggering, and this is due to the cost of creating a pipeline infrastructure to deal with it. Fortunately for producers, oil is easy to truck, so why worry?
I agree. I believe the climate changes. Of course it does. Just look outside everyday. Do we have as large an impact on it as everyone seems think (thank you media for sensationalizing it just to get views)? I don't think so. Do we have an effect? sure, but it's probably more akin to spitting into the ocean compared to other things. If you look back at reports and media from the 1970s several of the headlines would've sounded like they came from today, except they were about global cooling.
There really isn't enough data yet to determine these things yet. The atmosphere is one complex machine and many factors are in play. We are looking at a small pin hole in the wall and claiming the entire structure is going to fall. These warming/cooling periods are probably cyclical and largely out of our control. Source? I have none/don't remember.
All said and done, I'm all for solar. I'm glad apple is doing this. Great way for them to save money and reduce reliance on oil for when we do run out.
I am glad too. The problem is your beliefs that the rise in CO2 since the industrial revolution's beginning hasn't been significant in climate change and oceanic global warming is about as valid as believing the British doctor who falsified the data to show autism came from vaccinations. Once false science is out there, far too many gullible people believe it.
You need to read up on oil and natural gas production in North Dakota. There it is apparent that minimally regulated energy production comes at a very steep social and environmental price.
The amount of natural gas and methane released to the atmosphere in oil production is staggering, and this is due to the cost of creating a pipeline infrastructure to deal with it. Fortunately for producers, oil is easy to truck, so why worry?
Yes, water totally is flammable now thanks to fracking.
Comments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin
As is noted, research is ongoing. Considering all that science gets wrong (or flat out lies about), healthy skepticism of any scientific theory is essential.
Your wikipedia link:
In other news, research on evolution, the age of the earth, and the effects of doubling the atmosphere's level of carbon dioxide on global temperatures is ongoing as well.
As someone once said, it pays to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.
In other news, research on evolution, the age of the earth, and the effects of doubling the atmosphere's level of carbon dioxide on global temperatures is ongoing as well.
As someone once said, it pays to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.
What an excellent example of bias! You conveniently edited this part out.
Thanks for demonstrating why scientists aren't to be trusted wholly. Bravo.
Seems like a great place. In the US, the solar panels don't fit into the decor very well. Has Germany made them blend into the architecture more naturally?
The pictures I've seen don't blend in very well, unless you like dark blue everywhere.
But I just did a search, and Germany seem very progressive with roof tiles and shingles that have integrated PV panels in them, and they do look a lot better (if you like a dark roof).
Think of how much area the roof of the Spaceship could be used to hold solar panels.
I had high hopes that Steven Chu (Obama's Secretary of Energy) would pursue more efficient reactors, specifically thorium, but it never happened. It would take government-level research to commercialize it. India is one of the countries pursuing it now. Micro nukes are being pursued by several companies now. It just takes soooooo long to commercialize anything nuclear, for obvious reasons.
I'm all for green, but butchering all that land for solar panels is such a waste, and a shame. I'm in Monterey often and it breaks my heart to see this kind of destruction going on.
I so hope fusion energy comes into play soon, or some modern-tech nuclear power. I'm gonna get flamed for it, but massive swaths of land for energy is not the way.
Solar farms wastes land, Windmills kills thousands of birds a year, solar collectors fry birds in mid-air... there is a cost.
Me no like this.
Sounds like this is in the southern part of the county, and in a town that has abandoned mines. Not exactly an environmentally sensitive area, and the south part of the county also has several square miles of oil fields that date back to the 1950s. Those oil fields have not been particularly productive for many years, and have been the subject of a debate whether to allow fracking in Monterey County. In the context of the land areas in that part of the county, and in comparison with the oil extraction, aggregate mining, and other resource extraction activity already occurring, 1,300 acres for a solar field is a relatively small impact.
Thanks for the lunacy comment. It wouldn't be a day on the Net without one.
I think that blends very well from what I'm used to in the US.
There is a reason FSLR and ESLR and other solar companies have done crummy.
What is the opportunity cost of not using natural gas instead?
I am not saying solar is totally crazy, but individual panel efficiency drops fast over time and rare earth metal materials will largely increase in price over time.
It is not as if the panels dont eventually have to be thrown away. The panels often have toxic rare earth compounds too. People make solar out as something that will save the human race. There is no indication of this yet with current photovoltaics.
With nanotech methods, as panel efficiency and longevity increses, MAYBE they will look very smart.
You dont care to see the opposing viewpoint because you already have your mind made up.
Right. Like the comments that excessive snow fall proves there is no such thing ... I guess the energy to produce all that moisture to make the record breaking falls came from .... mmm ... I can't think of anything to say there but 'from space' which would be accurate.
What about this for an option... http://www.solarroadways.com/intro.shtml ?
The devil's in the details. Those solar highways are made of glass panels. Roadway materials have to handle high stress loads and different weather conditions, and last for many years. What are the tolerances in the seams between the panels? How do those panels handle elevation changes? What happens when the glass breaks or wears down over time? How much grip do those surfaces provide in bad weather? What happens to drainage if the material cannot absorb water?
All kinds of questions about simple practical everyday usage that haven't been answered yet.
I don't disagree we need to keep researching for a better technology to harness solar radiation, that's a given. After all fossil fuels are exactly that, the snag is they are finite and break down chemically into a lot of unwanted greenhouse gasses when oxidized to release the energy they captured from the sun eons ago.
Stanford University calculated the amount of energy used to create every solar panel ever made and the amount of energy produced by all of those solar panels. We might reach the break even point by 2018.
More importantly, California is in a drought. Studies have shown that California has had drought of up to 240 years long in the past. Where is all the water going to come from to keep all these solar panels clean so that they produce electricity?
LOL, I must remember that one.
So you're saying their conclusion is that doing nothing would bring more energy into Apple's campus than creating the solar farm? What about the energy used for petroleum, wind and natural gas?
How much water is needed?
There really isn't enough data yet to determine these things yet. The atmosphere is one complex machine and many factors are in play. We are looking at a small pin hole in the wall and claiming the entire structure is going to fall. These warming/cooling periods are probably cyclical and largely out of our control. Source? I have none/don't remember.
All said and done, I'm all for solar. I'm glad apple is doing this. Great way for them to save money and reduce reliance on oil for when we do run out.
OT perhaps but when I was in Vancouver recently a taxi driver commented to me that 'he didn't know why American wanted to transport oil from Canada given we had plenty of our own fossil fuel sources now, what we should be doing is piping water down the west coast, Vancouver had plenty to spare!'
Ok where is their solar program financial data and projections then? Is it a secret?
There is a reason FSLR and ESLR and other solar companies have done crummy.
What is the opportunity cost of not using natural gas instead?
I am not saying solar is totally crazy, but individual panel efficiency drops fast over time and rare earth metal materials will largely increase in price over time.
It is not as if the panels dont eventually have to be thrown away. The panels often have toxic rare earth compounds too. People make solar out as something that will save the human race. There is no indication of this yet with current photovoltaics.
With nanotech methods, as panel efficiency and longevity increses, MAYBE they will look very smart.
You need to read up on oil and natural gas production in North Dakota. There it is apparent that minimally regulated energy production comes at a very steep social and environmental price.
The amount of natural gas and methane released to the atmosphere in oil production is staggering, and this is due to the cost of creating a pipeline infrastructure to deal with it. Fortunately for producers, oil is easy to truck, so why worry?
I am glad too. The problem is your beliefs that the rise in CO2 since the industrial revolution's beginning hasn't been significant in climate change and oceanic global warming is about as valid as believing the British doctor who falsified the data to show autism came from vaccinations. Once false science is out there, far too many gullible people believe it.
You need to read up on oil and natural gas production in North Dakota. There it is apparent that minimally regulated energy production comes at a very steep social and environmental price.
The amount of natural gas and methane released to the atmosphere in oil production is staggering, and this is due to the cost of creating a pipeline infrastructure to deal with it. Fortunately for producers, oil is easy to truck, so why worry?
Yes, water totally is flammable now thanks to fracking.