[quote] 1) believe it or not macs are a niche market, remember how many joysticks and gamepads we had before usb? who was building adb devices besides mice of any quality? gravis?
jobs realized this, dumped adb and adopted an industry standard, usb. so when a company made a mouse all they had to do was write new drivers for it. now apples gone one step further by including support in os x for 2 button mice with scroll wheel so that we can buy mice that don't even have mac drivers. finally<hr></blockquote>
Ok so it would take very little R&D for Apple to make a two button mouse w/scroll wheel standard. Now they just need to do it.
[quote]2) apple even goes a step beyond and outsources all their mouse production to said companies, wasn't the original imac mouse a plastic puck around logitech innards?<hr></blockquote>
So Apple would just outsource production of a new two button mouse w/scroll wheel. Even easier.
[quote]3) if apple shipped a 2 button scroll wheel mouse how many people would ever but another one... and if no ones buying the damn things why would any company make mac specific mice or other peripherals<hr></blockquote>
Well at least one company would make mac mice: the one Apple outsourced production of their mouse to. Otherwise, I don't think Apple's standard mouse choice has much of an impact on overall mouse sales. Go check out the mouse section at Best Buy sometime...it is far too large to be supported by 5% of the computer market...in other words, USB mice would continue to be made, because people buy them as replacement mice when their original breaks, or if their original mouse isn't good enough for them.
Also, the same argument you make about Apple mice could be made for CD burners, i.e., if Apple offers CDRW drives on their computers, then nobody will make Firewire CD burners for Macs. But now Apple offers CDRW drives standard on virtually all Macs, and guess what? I can still go to the nearest ChumpUSA and buy a CD burner for my Mac.
[quote]4) how can u compare a num pad which by your own words 'not all of us use' to a mouse? shipping a one button mouse obviously generates sales for 3rd party companies the mac market so desperatly needs.<hr></blockquote>
As you said, not all of use use a two button mouse, so the analogy of the number pad holds true. Understand? A standard one button mouse forces some, but not all, mac users to buy a 3rd party mouse. A standard keyboard without number pad would force some, but not all, mac users to buy a 3rd party number pad. Is this analogy really that hard to understand?
Again, the USB mouse market isn't going to go under when Apple improves their standard mouse. It didn't go under when Apple got rid of the puck, and it's not going to be hurt when Apple offers a two button mouse w/scroll wheel. It may change for the better, actually, with more companies focusing on 4-6 button mice for the Mac since people wouldn't be buying many two button mice to replace their standard mouse any longer.
Also, since OS X fully supports any 2 button mouse w/ scrollwheel (And USB overdrive supports any mouse), then why does Apple desperately need 3rd party Mac mice? They don't. Just buy any mouse you like and it will work in OS X.
[quote]5) it's an image thing. the 'new' imac is not like the 'old' imac. so why not call it imac2? or imac2002? for the same reason apple's not gunna start shipping something it hasn't done since its inception. it's an icon, it represents the damn company. how many people know macs as the computers with one button mice? and if it's that big a deal you weren't going to buy a mac in the first place.<hr></blockquote>
Huh? Since when is Apple's fame based on a one button mouse? I thought Macs were known for what people can do with them, like graphics, DV, DA, etc. At least, that's what most people say to me when I tell them I use Macs, "oh, those are supposed to be good for graphics, aren't they?" is a typical response, not "Macs, the computer with a one button mouse!".
[quote]macs are a niche market. we need as many 3rd partys making mac products as possible, if that means making the buyer whip out another $30 for a decent mouse then, well, apple is willing to let the consumer eat sh!t, well, as much shit as $30 can buy. do i want a 2button scroll wheel mac mouse? yes. are we going to get it? no. is it because apple is backwards and doesn't see that the a one button mouse will be their downfall? no, it's business. does it hurt us, as consumers? obviously
<hr></blockquote>
This is such nonsense. You are basically saying Apple should intentionally ship a lousy mouse so that 3rd party mouse makers can have more business...that's twisted! Hell, why not ship a mouse designed with only a 1 year lifespan, that would help out 3rd party sales!
I think that no matter what sort of mouse Apple ships, 3rd party mice will always be available. There will always be mac users that want a special mouse, one with 20 buttons, or a ball n' socket mouse, or a drawing tablet, anything.
Finally, the great thing about a standard two button mouse is that, it pleases everyone. Single button mouse users can still stick to using one button, and two button mouse users won't have to fill landfills with Apple's standard mouse after paying for a replacement mouse to use with their brand new $3000 Mac. Everyone is happy.
AppleZombies like you would be defending it against criticism until blue in the face. No matter what Apple does, you will find a way to rationalize it. I suppose you loved the puck mouse as well....am I right? If you do then I have one to send you...I'd rather someone use it than throw it out.
[quote]I love the Pro Mouse - keep the same form factor just extend the rocking motion to implement a "back click" as the second "mouse button". <hr></blockquote>
I'm thinking through this mouse thing more, and I think I have some of the crazy humors going through my head <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> , but why doesn't Apple come up with a whole new input device. I may not be accurate in my history, but I think Apple was the first computer company to use the mouse (after buying the idea off of xerox).
I'm thinking the new device could be like a glove around your hand sort of, and when you positioned your fingers certain ways, it'd respond just like cliking, and contorting them a little different could be the equiv. of the right-click. There could be some way of letting the glove know that you were typing, for it to not attempt to move the mouse around while doing that. I haven't fully mapped out the theoretic design of it , but I can't think of anything immediately impeding this sort of idea.
This is such nonsense. You are basically saying Apple should intentionally ship a lousy mouse so that 3rd party mouse makers can have more business...that's twisted! Hell, why not ship a mouse designed with only a 1 year lifespan, that would help out 3rd party sales! </strong><hr></blockquote>
forced obsoletion? jee, apple would never do that i am NOT saying apple should do it, just why. you can add standard business practice to the twisted remark, wrong as it might be. more and more i see apple acting like microsoft, but they're so small they can get a way with it. is it right? no, hell it's illegal (not this 2 button mouse issue, but how bout the g3 suit, or itunes, itools, imovie, all work on pre os9 with a patch yet apple won't support them, i'd hardly call a g3 running 8.6 legacy hardware YMMV)
[quote]<strong>
AppleZombies like you would be defending it against criticism until blue in the face. No matter what Apple does, you will find a way to rationalize it. I suppose you loved the puck mouse as well....am I right? If you do then I have one to send you...I'd rather someone use it than throw it out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
please grow out of the apple zombie remarks, and the puck mouse was a piece of shit, i threw it out and went and bought a macally... the fact that apple shipped that piece of shit for so long proves my point, i'm not saying apple isnt wrong, i'm not defending them, read the end of my post in the other thread we were talking in, i'm saying why they do it, not if it's right or wrong, explaination is not rationalization. i was adding to the discussion- if you think it's a bad thing, thats fine, me too. however, i do see why they do it.
in all seriousness, thankgod you're here jyd, we can get some serious discussion going, i thrououghly enjoy these posts of ours otherwise these boards are a bit stale
how many pcs come with a shitty mouse that gets instantly replaced??? for gamers....every single one...i replaced my iMac G3's hockey puck with a point and scroll mouse a week after buying the iMac....i will replace the apple optical with an optical scroll 3 or 4 button about two weeks after having the new iMac G4....regret this throw away more as the white apple mouse is really nice looking, but, to me, it's just the way it goes...some people never replace the mouse that comes with their system, some replace it right away...this works for both macs and pcs....g
<strong>I can't believe ANYONE is defending Apple on this. There is some serious AppleZombie action here, drones following the herd, lemmings jumping to their death. Unbelievable. If Apple's mouse zapped the user with high voltage every time they missed a target, I suppose some of you would defend that, too.
The waste generated by Apple's stock mice also annoys me. Why should Apple be shipping something with their computers that most people throw out upon delivery? That makes no sense at all, none. If a mouse is so bad that people don't even bother using it before trashing it, then it's not fit to ship with Macs. Forget BTO, a real, 2 button mouse w/scrollwheel should be standard issue, it's not going to kill Apple to add a few parts to their overpriced mouse.
As I already noted, if you like a single button mouse, then just use one button, nobody forces you to use two buttons on a two button mouse. I would question what exactly is between a person's ears who continued to use only one button on a two button Apple mouse, but it's your choice. And choice is something that a single button mouse doesn't offer. The only "choice" one has is to throw it out and start over...some choice.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I use a Pro mouse (when I use a mouse - I have a laptop) and would never use a mouse with more than one button. From an ergonomic point of view, it forces you to sit your hand in a certain direction, to hit the left button most of the time, or to move your finger over the button to press it. I can't stand this, for the same reason I can't stand a QWERTY keyboard (yes I use Dvorak). Technology should NOT make my hand ache. One button is the only way to go from that respect. If I need a context menu, it's no loss to control click, compared to what a two button mouse does to my hand. For me it's not about simplicity, it's about ergonomics and RSI.
Therefore, with your other point, I would throw out any mouse that isn't one button! That's assuming I could find another single button mouse... does anyone else make them?
If any of you have an Apple Pro Mouse or Apple Pro Keyboard you need taken off your hands...I would be a more than willing reciever (I use the original USB keyboard and puck mouse, pity me ).
i do think apple could learn from dell in this case and, when you order a computer, it asks you what mouse you would like and offers 4 or 5 options (single button apple pro mouse, 3 button logitech wheelmouse, 4 button logitech dual optical, 4 button kensington, 5 button microsoft)...this way the customer has choices and the 3rd party companies get sales...it would be easy to throw a mouse box into the iMac box and the PM box at shipping....g
<strong>i do think apple could learn from dell in this case and, when you order a computer, it asks you what mouse you would like and offers 4 or 5 options (single button apple pro mouse, 3 button logitech wheelmouse, 4 button logitech dual optical, 4 button kensington, 5 button microsoft)...this way the customer has choices and the 3rd party companies get sales...it would be easy to throw a mouse box into the iMac box and the PM box at shipping....g</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd love it if they did that, but it'd never happen.
why?? right now when you buy an iMac from the apple store they ask you if you want to add memory, an airport card, an iPod or add apple care...if you're buying a PowerMac the add even more options to include: upgrading the monitor, adding a second monitor, larger HD, change the graphics card, add removible storage and add speakers...it would be EXTREMEMLY easy to add a slot that asks...."what mouse would you like with your NEW apple computer?" and give a pull down with 4 or 5 choices....hell, make it 3 choices if they think consumers are too dumb....i think if a person can decide the HD size and the graphics card they want, they can probably also stretch the old noodle a bit and think about want mouse would be best suited for them....third party builders would still be happy if apple included their mouse on the short list....g
[quote] I use a Pro mouse (when I use a mouse - I have a laptop) and would never use a mouse with more than one button. From an ergonomic point of view, it forces you to sit your hand in a certain direction, to hit the left button most of the time, or to move your finger over the button to press it. I can't stand this, for the same reason I can't stand a QWERTY keyboard (yes I use Dvorak). Technology should NOT make my hand ache. One button is the only way to go from that respect. If I need a context menu, it's no loss to control click, compared to what a two button mouse does to my hand. For me it's not about simplicity, it's about ergonomics and RSI.
Therefore, with your other point, I would throw out any mouse that isn't one button! That's assuming I could find another single button mouse... does anyone else make them?
Amorya <hr></blockquote>
I agree with Amorya. Clicking collectively with three fingers on a one button Pro Mouse (or the old ADB mouse) is much less straining on your hand (or at least my hand) than clicking with single fingers on a multi-button mouse.
Guitarbloke also has a good point--that one button simplicity is consistent with the Mac's ease of use. I personally have found little desire for additional buttons.
With that said, I love scroll wheels, so I just bought a logitech. I am, however, going to program the right button as the main button so I can bang away on that with more than one finger.
TO MY EVERLASTING SHAME, i went to compUSA last night and bought a logitech optical 2 button mouse w/scrollwheel. it's the first time in my lengthy mac history that i haven't used an apple mouse.after 24 hours of driving this thing around, i've come to these conclusions.
1) the scroll wheel is a damn fine invention. it makes just about everything easier and i've really taken to it. this is a definite plus.
2) on the downside, i actually have to be aware of where my buttons are now. i miss the pro mouse's ability to let me click anywhere. furthermore, when i grab the mouse, my index finger naturally rests over the 2nd button, not the first...so i have to make an effort to move it over, which is a bit more uncomfortable and somewhat counterintuitive. is this a design weakness of my mouse or 2 button mice in general? i'm not sure.
3) having a physical button to summon contextual menus is a very handy thing... to be fair, using the control key doesn't take much effort...but i could certainly get used to a button.
overall, i think the apple single button mouse wins for intuitive use and comfort. it's hard to beat utter simplicity. the dual button mouse wins for overall usefullness. to scroll without using the scrollbar is a zenlike awakening. what i really want now is a marriage of the two different types. i want apple's buttonless design with the scrollwheel and the ability to peform some kind of secondary click. that would be the best of both worlds.
Okay, using a two-button mouse shouldn't be confusing. Saying that you have to move your finger over to click a different button sounds odd to me, but the field of ergonomics exists due to differences in human form and expectations.
Basically, with the Logitech 2-button scrolling mouse you have three buttons, because the scroll wheel is ALSO a button. So let's name them, from left to right, as we look at the mouse as if it were on your desk ready for use.
Button One - the leftmost button.
Scroll Wheel - the ribbed wheel in the center.
Button Two - the rightmost button.
For Right-Handed people Button One fits under the index finger and Button Two fits under the middle finger. Your hand grips the mouse with your thumb and ring finger and your pinkie goes along for the ride, providing valuable tactile data in regard to your position on your mousing surface. Button One is defined as a single click and Button Two is set up to act as a contextual click.
For Left-Handed people Buttons One and Two have reverse fingering and click assignments.
It's that easy.
For first-time multi-button mouse users there's a period of familarization with the finger movement. As time goes by and you utilize the mouse you'll wonder how you were ever productive without it.
I think a lot of people dont recognize the fact that A LOT of people do find a multibutton mouse a hastle; I.E. older people, small children, and various others. I for one enjoy using an Intellimouse Explorer. However, that renders my Apple mouse useless and costs an extra $50. I would simply like Apple to develop a multibutton scroll mouse and have it as a build to order option.
I was just sitting here holding a sandwich in on hand and mousing w/the other. I wanted to copy a new OmniWeb from the dmg to my HD. Click-hold didnt work. I was forced to use the 'edit' menu or put down my sandwich a reach for control. Suddenly I was wishing I had a second button.
I love the Apple ProMouse, but I find myself using context. menus more and more. Now that OSX has services, there is a real potential for growth here. A 2nd button would help this.
One thing I like about NT is shift-right click. You can get an 'open with...' option.
[quote]For first-time multi-button mouse users there's a period of familarization with the finger movement. As time goes by and you utilize the mouse you'll wonder how you were ever productive without it.<hr></blockquote>
The majority of time I use a mouse, it's a 3 button (or two button with scroll wheel) Logitech one that's standard issue at college. At home I tend to use the trackpad on my Pismo. I'm not a multi-button mouse newbie, I just hate the damned things. I also don't agree with having a menubar AND a context menu (stick to one - the Acorn was excellent in using just a context menu - the Mac has traditionally been great at using just a menubar). But that's another argument.
My point is, I'm not unused to many buttons. I'm not just not realising what I'm missing. I know full well what I'm missing and wouldn't have it any other way! Ergonomics are very important to me - I type on Dvorak layout to guard against RSI, etc... - and I find the way a multi-button mouse twists your hand is uncomfortable and unpleasant.
Mapping the buttons both as left-click is also no good. If that happens, I'd be double clicking (one click with each button) every time I tried to click on something. There is no substitute for a single button mouse :-)
Comments
jobs realized this, dumped adb and adopted an industry standard, usb. so when a company made a mouse all they had to do was write new drivers for it. now apples gone one step further by including support in os x for 2 button mice with scroll wheel so that we can buy mice that don't even have mac drivers. finally<hr></blockquote>
Ok so it would take very little R&D for Apple to make a two button mouse w/scroll wheel standard. Now they just need to do it.
[quote]2) apple even goes a step beyond and outsources all their mouse production to said companies, wasn't the original imac mouse a plastic puck around logitech innards?<hr></blockquote>
So Apple would just outsource production of a new two button mouse w/scroll wheel. Even easier.
[quote]3) if apple shipped a 2 button scroll wheel mouse how many people would ever but another one... and if no ones buying the damn things why would any company make mac specific mice or other peripherals<hr></blockquote>
Well at least one company would make mac mice: the one Apple outsourced production of their mouse to. Otherwise, I don't think Apple's standard mouse choice has much of an impact on overall mouse sales. Go check out the mouse section at Best Buy sometime...it is far too large to be supported by 5% of the computer market...in other words, USB mice would continue to be made, because people buy them as replacement mice when their original breaks, or if their original mouse isn't good enough for them.
Also, the same argument you make about Apple mice could be made for CD burners, i.e., if Apple offers CDRW drives on their computers, then nobody will make Firewire CD burners for Macs. But now Apple offers CDRW drives standard on virtually all Macs, and guess what? I can still go to the nearest ChumpUSA and buy a CD burner for my Mac.
[quote]4) how can u compare a num pad which by your own words 'not all of us use' to a mouse? shipping a one button mouse obviously generates sales for 3rd party companies the mac market so desperatly needs.<hr></blockquote>
As you said, not all of use use a two button mouse, so the analogy of the number pad holds true. Understand? A standard one button mouse forces some, but not all, mac users to buy a 3rd party mouse. A standard keyboard without number pad would force some, but not all, mac users to buy a 3rd party number pad. Is this analogy really that hard to understand?
Again, the USB mouse market isn't going to go under when Apple improves their standard mouse. It didn't go under when Apple got rid of the puck, and it's not going to be hurt when Apple offers a two button mouse w/scroll wheel. It may change for the better, actually, with more companies focusing on 4-6 button mice for the Mac since people wouldn't be buying many two button mice to replace their standard mouse any longer.
Also, since OS X fully supports any 2 button mouse w/ scrollwheel (And USB overdrive supports any mouse), then why does Apple desperately need 3rd party Mac mice? They don't. Just buy any mouse you like and it will work in OS X.
[quote]5) it's an image thing. the 'new' imac is not like the 'old' imac. so why not call it imac2? or imac2002? for the same reason apple's not gunna start shipping something it hasn't done since its inception. it's an icon, it represents the damn company. how many people know macs as the computers with one button mice? and if it's that big a deal you weren't going to buy a mac in the first place.<hr></blockquote>
Huh? Since when is Apple's fame based on a one button mouse? I thought Macs were known for what people can do with them, like graphics, DV, DA, etc. At least, that's what most people say to me when I tell them I use Macs, "oh, those are supposed to be good for graphics, aren't they?" is a typical response, not "Macs, the computer with a one button mouse!".
[quote]macs are a niche market. we need as many 3rd partys making mac products as possible, if that means making the buyer whip out another $30 for a decent mouse then, well, apple is willing to let the consumer eat sh!t, well, as much shit as $30 can buy. do i want a 2button scroll wheel mac mouse? yes. are we going to get it? no. is it because apple is backwards and doesn't see that the a one button mouse will be their downfall? no, it's business. does it hurt us, as consumers? obviously
<hr></blockquote>
This is such nonsense. You are basically saying Apple should intentionally ship a lousy mouse so that 3rd party mouse makers can have more business...that's twisted! Hell, why not ship a mouse designed with only a 1 year lifespan, that would help out 3rd party sales!
I think that no matter what sort of mouse Apple ships, 3rd party mice will always be available. There will always be mac users that want a special mouse, one with 20 buttons, or a ball n' socket mouse, or a drawing tablet, anything.
Finally, the great thing about a standard two button mouse is that, it pleases everyone. Single button mouse users can still stick to using one button, and two button mouse users won't have to fill landfills with Apple's standard mouse after paying for a replacement mouse to use with their brand new $3000 Mac. Everyone is happy.
AppleZombies like you would be defending it against criticism until blue in the face. No matter what Apple does, you will find a way to rationalize it. I suppose you loved the puck mouse as well....am I right? If you do then I have one to send you...I'd rather someone use it than throw it out.
What if we have a wrist-rest mouse pad?
Any way here is my .02:
Rock motion forward(not back)
button on sides
scroll wheel
allow for two button chording and done
[ 02-10-2002: Message edited by: macsrock ]</p>
I'm thinking the new device could be like a glove around your hand sort of, and when you positioned your fingers certain ways, it'd respond just like cliking, and contorting them a little different could be the equiv. of the right-click. There could be some way of letting the glove know that you were typing, for it to not attempt to move the mouse around while doing that. I haven't fully mapped out the theoretic design of it , but I can't think of anything immediately impeding this sort of idea.
<strong>
This is such nonsense. You are basically saying Apple should intentionally ship a lousy mouse so that 3rd party mouse makers can have more business...that's twisted! Hell, why not ship a mouse designed with only a 1 year lifespan, that would help out 3rd party sales! </strong><hr></blockquote>
forced obsoletion? jee, apple would never do that
[quote]<strong>
AppleZombies like you would be defending it against criticism until blue in the face. No matter what Apple does, you will find a way to rationalize it. I suppose you loved the puck mouse as well....am I right? If you do then I have one to send you...I'd rather someone use it than throw it out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
please grow out of the apple zombie remarks, and the puck mouse was a piece of shit, i threw it out and went and bought a macally... the fact that apple shipped that piece of shit for so long proves my point, i'm not saying apple isnt wrong, i'm not defending them, read the end of my post in the other thread we were talking
in all seriousness, thankgod you're here jyd, we can get some serious discussion going, i thrououghly enjoy these posts of ours
[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: janitor ]
[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: janitor ]
[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: janitor ]</p>
[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
<strong>I can't believe ANYONE is defending Apple on this. There is some serious AppleZombie action here, drones following the herd, lemmings jumping to their death. Unbelievable. If Apple's mouse zapped the user with high voltage every time they missed a target, I suppose some of you would defend that, too.
The waste generated by Apple's stock mice also annoys me. Why should Apple be shipping something with their computers that most people throw out upon delivery? That makes no sense at all, none. If a mouse is so bad that people don't even bother using it before trashing it, then it's not fit to ship with Macs. Forget BTO, a real, 2 button mouse w/scrollwheel should be standard issue, it's not going to kill Apple to add a few parts to their overpriced mouse.
As I already noted, if you like a single button mouse, then just use one button, nobody forces you to use two buttons on a two button mouse. I would question what exactly is between a person's ears who continued to use only one button on a two button Apple mouse, but it's your choice. And choice is something that a single button mouse doesn't offer. The only "choice" one has is to throw it out and start over...some choice.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I use a Pro mouse (when I use a mouse - I have a laptop) and would never use a mouse with more than one button. From an ergonomic point of view, it forces you to sit your hand in a certain direction, to hit the left button most of the time, or to move your finger over the button to press it. I can't stand this, for the same reason I can't stand a QWERTY keyboard (yes I use Dvorak). Technology should NOT make my hand ache. One button is the only way to go from that respect. If I need a context menu, it's no loss to control click, compared to what a two button mouse does to my hand. For me it's not about simplicity, it's about ergonomics and RSI.
Therefore, with your other point, I would throw out any mouse that isn't one button! That's assuming I could find another single button mouse... does anyone else make them?
Amorya
Finally, the great thing about a standard two button mouse is that, it pleases everyone.
<hr></blockquote>
When hell's frozen over, may be.
No way, many people are happy with one button, others need minimum 4 or 5 of them. You cannot create a mouse to please all people.
The best idea is like thegelding said. Let everybody decide for himself, that pleases everyone.
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
(edit:spelling)
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: SemiConductor ]</p>
<strong>i do think apple could learn from dell in this case and, when you order a computer, it asks you what mouse you would like and offers 4 or 5 options (single button apple pro mouse, 3 button logitech wheelmouse, 4 button logitech dual optical, 4 button kensington, 5 button microsoft)...this way the customer has choices and the 3rd party companies get sales...it would be easy to throw a mouse box into the iMac box and the PM box at shipping....g</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd love it if they did that, but it'd never happen.
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
That said, I personally quite enjoy the "no-brainer" function of the Pro mouse - it adds a nice air of interface transparency that sits well with OS X
Therefore, with your other point, I would throw out any mouse that isn't one button! That's assuming I could find another single button mouse... does anyone else make them?
Amorya <hr></blockquote>
I agree with Amorya. Clicking collectively with three fingers on a one button Pro Mouse (or the old ADB mouse) is much less straining on your hand (or at least my hand) than clicking with single fingers on a multi-button mouse.
Guitarbloke also has a good point--that one button simplicity is consistent with the Mac's ease of use. I personally have found little desire for additional buttons.
With that said, I love scroll wheels, so I just bought a logitech. I am, however, going to program the right button as the main button so I can bang away on that with more than one finger.
1) the scroll wheel is a damn fine invention. it makes just about everything easier and i've really taken to it. this is a definite plus.
2) on the downside, i actually have to be aware of where my buttons are now. i miss the pro mouse's ability to let me click anywhere. furthermore, when i grab the mouse, my index finger naturally rests over the 2nd button, not the first...so i have to make an effort to move it over, which is a bit more uncomfortable and somewhat counterintuitive. is this a design weakness of my mouse or 2 button mice in general? i'm not sure.
3) having a physical button to summon contextual menus is a very handy thing... to be fair, using the control key doesn't take much effort...but i could certainly get used to a button.
overall, i think the apple single button mouse wins for intuitive use and comfort. it's hard to beat utter simplicity. the dual button mouse wins for overall usefullness. to scroll without using the scrollbar is a zenlike awakening. what i really want now is a marriage of the two different types. i want apple's buttonless design with the scrollwheel and the ability to peform some kind of secondary click. that would be the best of both worlds.
[ 02-16-2002: Message edited by: koffedrnkr ]</p>
Basically, with the Logitech 2-button scrolling mouse you have three buttons, because the scroll wheel is ALSO a button. So let's name them, from left to right, as we look at the mouse as if it were on your desk ready for use.
Button One - the leftmost button.
Scroll Wheel - the ribbed wheel in the center.
Button Two - the rightmost button.
For Right-Handed people Button One fits under the index finger and Button Two fits under the middle finger. Your hand grips the mouse with your thumb and ring finger and your pinkie goes along for the ride, providing valuable tactile data in regard to your position on your mousing surface. Button One is defined as a single click and Button Two is set up to act as a contextual click.
For Left-Handed people Buttons One and Two have reverse fingering and click assignments.
It's that easy.
For first-time multi-button mouse users there's a period of familarization with the finger movement. As time goes by and you utilize the mouse you'll wonder how you were ever productive without it.
D
I love the Apple ProMouse, but I find myself using context. menus more and more. Now that OSX has services, there is a real potential for growth here. A 2nd button would help this.
One thing I like about NT is shift-right click. You can get an 'open with...' option.
The majority of time I use a mouse, it's a 3 button (or two button with scroll wheel) Logitech one that's standard issue at college. At home I tend to use the trackpad on my Pismo. I'm not a multi-button mouse newbie, I just hate the damned things. I also don't agree with having a menubar AND a context menu (stick to one - the Acorn was excellent in using just a context menu - the Mac has traditionally been great at using just a menubar). But that's another argument.
My point is, I'm not unused to many buttons. I'm not just not realising what I'm missing. I know full well what I'm missing and wouldn't have it any other way! Ergonomics are very important to me - I type on Dvorak layout to guard against RSI, etc... - and I find the way a multi-button mouse twists your hand is uncomfortable and unpleasant.
Mapping the buttons both as left-click is also no good. If that happens, I'd be double clicking (one click with each button) every time I tried to click on something. There is no substitute for a single button mouse :-)
Amorya