You do realize when tax breaks are given to business that the consumer makes up the difference, right? Take my state businesses pay very low taxes & no property tax, education funding has been cut, police forces etc., are being downsized, the roads & infrastructure are a decaying mess etc. The solution (from a Republican Governor & legislature) raise taxes. They have decided to raise taxes on citizens by taxing pensions, raising property taxes on the citizens & now trying to raise the sales tax to fix roads. There has to be some balance.
So... taxes are acceptable to you when someone else pays them, eh? What a surprise.
If those numbers tell the real story, then I agree they should be taxed equally...at 0%
Where do you guys get off? 20% corporate tax...which is passed on to the consumer then 20% VAT on top of that??? Geeze
It's hard to compare tax rates in different countries because of the complicated systems each country operates but 20% corporation tax is considered low, especially in comparison to US federal corporate income tax rates of up to 39% plus state taxes of up to 3%. VAT is not the same as US sales tax, it's a tax on value added not the sale - a bit complicated to explain but it's not sales tax and is widely considered as being fairer than sales tax. I know a lot of Americans are anti any tax or government, but regardless of the tax rates if you trade in a country you should pay tax like everyone else in that country.
The government of any civilised country should aim to provide public services for its citizens and it does that through tax revenue. Each individual - that's me - has to pay each year and each company doing business here (who does not have the luxury of an army of tax advisors in their phone book) should also pay their fair share. Fair meaning fair, not simply their legal commitment.
If the law has convenient loopholes that as being used by wealthy corporations then those loopholes should be closed.
Government created those Loopholes. Corporations don't pay taxes!!! Well they do, but they really don't. Higher Taxes for them just means higher prices for YOU. In effect, you're only taxing yourself even more. All they see right now is a number of RICH American company's to make a money grab at. It's as simple as that. In fact they want more money then what the Corporate Take rate is in the first place that just dropped 1%. Just a money grab. Got to pay all them socialist programs, once you run out of your own money, you have to take it from someplace. At some point, you'll run out of everyone else's money. Good luck then.
Government created those Loopholes. Corporations don't pay taxes!!! Well they do, but they really don't. Higher Taxes for them just means higher prices for YOU. In effect, you're only taxing yourself even more. All they see right now is a number of RICH American company's to make a money grab at. It's as simple as that. In fact they want more money then what the Corporate Take rate is in the first place that just dropped 1%. Just a money grab. Got to pay all them socialist programs, once you run out of your own money, you have to take it from someplace. At some point, you'll run out of everyone else's money. Good luck then.
Corporations don't pay taxes, YOU do! If they have to fork out more money, they pass the buck to you!!! That's fact and so in the end you're only taxing yourself even more. The price of the product just goes up. It's as simple as that. VAT has nothing to do with anything. You're still paying the 20% on top of the higher priced product. There's no extra mess. All this is about is a huge money grab from Rich American company's. Facebook taxes really seem silly, same with Star Bucks and low to none being paid, but if the taxes are now even higher then the normal corporate taxes that's wrong also. So you'll be paying it. Corporations aren't going to just eat it. That's beyond silly and really naive.
Assuming prices would go up if more tax from profits were to be paid also implies that if taxs went down then so would prices. But why would Apple or any company drop prices when consumers are willing to pay that price, and if they could still sell the same with higher prices why wouldn't they do that too.
Prices wouldn't go up as companies already sell at a price that they think will make the most profit. Not so low that the extra sales doesn't make up for the lower profit on each device and not so high that they loose sales. As the tax comes out of profit they couldn't make up for it with higher pries because they would sell less and therefore make less profit.
When the UK vat rate changed to 20% prices also weren't affected that much. Stuff that was £99 is still £99.
So... taxes are acceptable to you when someone else pays them, eh? What a surprise.
I didn't mean what I said as some kind of slam. I thanked you for clarifying your statement. You seem to have taken it that way. I pay taxes...so wtf are you talking about? I did not say anything remotely close to that. I believe if they are a necessary evil than everyone should share in the responsibility.
Assuming prices would go up if more tax from profits were to be paid also implies that if taxs went down then so would prices. But why would Apple or any company drop prices when consumers are willing to pay that price, and if they could still sell the same with higher prices why wouldn't they do that too.
Prices wouldn't go up as companies already sell at a price that they think will make the most profit. Not so low that the extra sales doesn't make up for the lower profit on each device and not so high that they loose sales. As the tax comes out of profit they couldn't make up for it with higher pries because they would sell less and therefore make less profit.
When the UK vat rate changed to 20% prices also weren't affected that much. Stuff that was £99 is still £99.
I agree. It's quite tiresome reading "you pay the taxes not the corporations" from all these teabaggers. Of course prices are affected by any number of things including exchange rate fluctuations, inflation (which is at zero in the UK), energy prices, political and civil unrest or natural disasters in the far away developing countries where nearly all Apple's products are made... it goes on and on. Taxes helped to pay for the environments that helped make Apple successful, such as the education of their workforce, the infrastructure to move their people and products around, their safety and security in the streets and in the world - without these things Americans would be assembling iPhones not designing them.
I can understand a tax of 5% or less, but 25%? That's insanity! Is the U.K. wanting to put the companies out of business while sitting on their fat, lazy arses?
How is corporation tax of 25% insanity? It's about the going rate for Western economies. Domestic companies in the UK pay 20%, so all Apple needs to do is stop trying to pull a fast one and declare it in the proper jurisdiction, not some crummy tax haven.
Few of the companies engaged in this sort of behaviour are in any likelihood of going out of business, and those that are, good riddance, other businesses will replace them. The businesses that aren't doing it are more often the ones that have suffered because of predatory business practices.
Government created those Loopholes. Corporations don't pay taxes!!! Well they do, but they really don't. Higher Taxes for them just means higher prices for YOU. In effect, you're only taxing yourself even more. All they see right now is a number of RICH American company's to make a money grab at. It's as simple as that. In fact they want more money then what the Corporate Take rate is in the first place that just dropped 1%. Just a money grab. Got to pay all them socialist programs, once you run out of your own money, you have to take it from someplace. At some point, you'll run out of everyone else's money. Good luck then.
If they don't pay taxes (your statement) How can they raise prices because of higher taxes? If the cost of taxes are passed on to the consumer than isn't that essentially the same thing as not paying taxes?
I didn't mean what I said as some kind of slam. I thanked you for clarifying your statement. You seem to have taken it that way. I pay taxes...so wtf are you talking about? I did not say anything remotely close to that. I believe if they are a necessary evil than everyone should share in the responsibility.
Something considered "evil" should not be synonymous with "necessity", IMO.
There are too many Federal taxes, there are too many loopholes and almost all Federal taxes are misused and misspent, therefore Federal taxes should be used only for their constitutionally limited purposes. Much of the taxes we pay are used to expand government that is more burdensome and more willing to engage in illegal and unconstitutional activities.
If they don't pay taxes (your statement) How can they raise prices because of higher taxes? If the cost of taxes are passed on to the consumer than isn't that essentially the same thing as not paying taxes?
Costs are always passed along. If extra costs make a business non-competitive, then costs must be cut. I take it you don't own a business.
I didn't make that argument, but I disagree with you. Fairness is the supposed bedrock of our society, so taxation should be based on a fair share principle. Specifics are obviously debateable.
But whichever way you look at, what Apple pays in corporation tax in many countries is not a fair share. 0% or close to 0% is not anything approaching a fair share.
Comments
You seriously worry that Apple will do something that hurts their margins? Like Apple would ever do that.
So... taxes are acceptable to you when someone else pays them, eh? What a surprise.
It's hard to compare tax rates in different countries because of the complicated systems each country operates but 20% corporation tax is considered low, especially in comparison to US federal corporate income tax rates of up to 39% plus state taxes of up to 3%. VAT is not the same as US sales tax, it's a tax on value added not the sale - a bit complicated to explain but it's not sales tax and is widely considered as being fairer than sales tax. I know a lot of Americans are anti any tax or government, but regardless of the tax rates if you trade in a country you should pay tax like everyone else in that country.
The government of any civilised country should aim to provide public services for its citizens and it does that through tax revenue. Each individual - that's me - has to pay each year and each company doing business here (who does not have the luxury of an army of tax advisors in their phone book) should also pay their fair share. Fair meaning fair, not simply their legal commitment.
If the law has convenient loopholes that as being used by wealthy corporations then those loopholes should be closed.
Government created those Loopholes. Corporations don't pay taxes!!! Well they do, but they really don't. Higher Taxes for them just means higher prices for YOU. In effect, you're only taxing yourself even more. All they see right now is a number of RICH American company's to make a money grab at. It's as simple as that. In fact they want more money then what the Corporate Take rate is in the first place that just dropped 1%. Just a money grab. Got to pay all them socialist programs, once you run out of your own money, you have to take it from someplace. At some point, you'll run out of everyone else's money. Good luck then.
Government created those Loopholes. Corporations don't pay taxes!!! Well they do, but they really don't. Higher Taxes for them just means higher prices for YOU. In effect, you're only taxing yourself even more. All they see right now is a number of RICH American company's to make a money grab at. It's as simple as that. In fact they want more money then what the Corporate Take rate is in the first place that just dropped 1%. Just a money grab. Got to pay all them socialist programs, once you run out of your own money, you have to take it from someplace. At some point, you'll run out of everyone else's money. Good luck then.
What socialist programs?
We know how to dodge them.
Prices wouldn't go up as companies already sell at a price that they think will make the most profit. Not so low that the extra sales doesn't make up for the lower profit on each device and not so high that they loose sales. As the tax comes out of profit they couldn't make up for it with higher pries because they would sell less and therefore make less profit.
When the UK vat rate changed to 20% prices also weren't affected that much. Stuff that was £99 is still £99.
So... taxes are acceptable to you when someone else pays them, eh? What a surprise.
I didn't mean what I said as some kind of slam. I thanked you for clarifying your statement. You seem to have taken it that way. I pay taxes...so wtf are you talking about? I did not say anything remotely close to that. I believe if they are a necessary evil than everyone should share in the responsibility.
I agree. It's quite tiresome reading "you pay the taxes not the corporations" from all these teabaggers. Of course prices are affected by any number of things including exchange rate fluctuations, inflation (which is at zero in the UK), energy prices, political and civil unrest or natural disasters in the far away developing countries where nearly all Apple's products are made... it goes on and on. Taxes helped to pay for the environments that helped make Apple successful, such as the education of their workforce, the infrastructure to move their people and products around, their safety and security in the streets and in the world - without these things Americans would be assembling iPhones not designing them.
I can understand a tax of 5% or less, but 25%? That's insanity! Is the U.K. wanting to put the companies out of business while sitting on their fat, lazy arses?
How is corporation tax of 25% insanity? It's about the going rate for Western economies. Domestic companies in the UK pay 20%, so all Apple needs to do is stop trying to pull a fast one and declare it in the proper jurisdiction, not some crummy tax haven.
Few of the companies engaged in this sort of behaviour are in any likelihood of going out of business, and those that are, good riddance, other businesses will replace them. The businesses that aren't doing it are more often the ones that have suffered because of predatory business practices.
Wonderful how the response to this issue when it was first raised was "don't blame Apple, change the tax code."
Tax code gets changed and the frothing at the mouth begins that Apple might have to start paying up after decades of tax abuse.
Government created those Loopholes. Corporations don't pay taxes!!! Well they do, but they really don't. Higher Taxes for them just means higher prices for YOU. In effect, you're only taxing yourself even more. All they see right now is a number of RICH American company's to make a money grab at. It's as simple as that. In fact they want more money then what the Corporate Take rate is in the first place that just dropped 1%. Just a money grab. Got to pay all them socialist programs, once you run out of your own money, you have to take it from someplace. At some point, you'll run out of everyone else's money. Good luck then.
If they don't pay taxes (your statement) How can they raise prices because of higher taxes? If the cost of taxes are passed on to the consumer than isn't that essentially the same thing as not paying taxes?
Taxation is theft.
You win the prize!
There should be some kind of alarm bell that rings whenever anyone uses this spurious argument anywhere, about anything.
I didn't mean what I said as some kind of slam. I thanked you for clarifying your statement. You seem to have taken it that way. I pay taxes...so wtf are you talking about? I did not say anything remotely close to that. I believe if they are a necessary evil than everyone should share in the responsibility.
Something considered "evil" should not be synonymous with "necessity", IMO.
There are too many Federal taxes, there are too many loopholes and almost all Federal taxes are misused and misspent, therefore Federal taxes should be used only for their constitutionally limited purposes. Much of the taxes we pay are used to expand government that is more burdensome and more willing to engage in illegal and unconstitutional activities.
Wonderful how the response to this issue when it was first raised was "don't blame Apple, change the tax code."
Tax code gets changed and the frothing at the mouth begins that Apple might have to start paying up after decades of tax abuse.
If it's allowed in the tax code, then it isn't "tax abuse" now, is it?
If they don't pay taxes (your statement) How can they raise prices because of higher taxes? If the cost of taxes are passed on to the consumer than isn't that essentially the same thing as not paying taxes?
Costs are always passed along. If extra costs make a business non-competitive, then costs must be cut. I take it you don't own a business.
If it's allowed in the tax code, then it isn't "tax abuse" now, is it?
Is a man beating his wife in a country with lax domestic violence laws not abusing her?
You win the prize!
There should be some kind of alarm bell that rings whenever anyone uses this spurious argument anywhere, about anything.
"Fair share" is a spurious argument.
^ Is a man beating his wife in a country with lax domestic violence laws not abusing her?
How often do you beat your wife?
"Fair share" is a spurious argument.
I didn't make that argument, but I disagree with you. Fairness is the supposed bedrock of our society, so taxation should be based on a fair share principle. Specifics are obviously debateable.
But whichever way you look at, what Apple pays in corporation tax in many countries is not a fair share. 0% or close to 0% is not anything approaching a fair share.