It is a great compute node where a laptop won't work.
Switchers? No, the cost of a new monitor, keyboard and mouse is trivial now. Apple's not even running switcher ads anymore.
A good portion of the switching world had gone iOS.
Hobbyist? No, you can't upgrade anything in the box anymore.
Upgradeability has little to do with suitability for a hobbyist. Defending upon what your hobby is though the Mini is a great little machine. It is still an excellent HTPC for example.
Server? Maybe, but if Apple really cared they wouldn't put the power supply inside the box.
Interesting because I don't think that internal power supply is a problem for a server. Apple buys decent power supplies that last a long time. The problem with the internal supply is that it artificially limits the machine to AC power supplies which makes installations in cars and recreational vehicles problematic.
Home Video? No, Apple will have a better solution for that very soon.
Doubtful really. Often people have their Apple TV running along side a home theater PC, the two serve different needs.
Car? No, better solutions exist from practically everyone.
Well yeah with the internal power supply Apple did screw with usages in non traditional locations. If the coming Apple TV replacement provides for an external power supply and it can handle downloadable apps then "maybe" it will be a good solution for mobile Video. It will not however be a good solution for people wanting a more significant "car" computer.
What is the point anymore? The Mini's magic is gone and the desktop computer world has changed.
It is still a market that any serious computer manufacture needs to service. Yes the world has changed and the desktop market is now nearly non existent outside of the business world. However the Mini does give Apple at least some traction in the business world.
Apple should scrap the Mini entirely and lower the base iMac to $799.
I'd like to see them rethink the Mini as they need to lower costs significantly. In that regard I'd like to see the low end Mini go Arm with Mac OS running on ARM. The high end machine can remain Intel but it needs to be as powerful as can be reasonably had in the Mini case. That means a quad core.
The low end Mini on the other hand would run an updated Apple designed ARM chip setup to address large blocks of RAM compared to the IPAds, 8GB would be about right if it where to launch this year. The idea is to ship a box that cost not much more than a couple of hundred and is useful in a variety of dedicated uses. The goal would be Mac OS but I'm really afraid that Apple will deliver such a box running iOS. IOS isn't a huge problem as the idea is to run dedicated apps for specific uses but I'd rather prefer Mac OS.
The thing is there are lots of uses for a small low cost box that can run a decent OS. I think this explains to popularity of Raspberry PI and other single board computers that often run cell phone hardware. Sometimes you want cheap more than anything else. Apple won't do extremely cheap of course but they could offer up something that cost a couple of hundred and isn't all that bad.
I need to add:
Part of the idea here is to see Apple take some initiative with technical education. It is something that is significantly lacking in the USA right now. A tiny PC that is cheap enough and open enough to get into the hands of students would be really nice. Note we are't talking about the niche that is filled by laptops and tablets but rather the niche that is technical education especially in high schools and to some extent junior schools. Of course the same open and widely supported hardware would have a bunch of other practice uses so this isn't a direct educational play.
Yes the world has changed and the desktop market is now nearly non existent outside of the business world. However the Mini does give Apple at least some traction in the business world.
No, it doesn't. That's over now. How many businesses have you walked into recently and seen a Mini on the desk?
Outside of specialty applications (where Raspberry Pi is winning) and SOHO office servers, who runs a Mini in their office?
A $799. iMac, slightly upgraded from the base model and sold to businesses in packs of 5 or 10, would add far more traction in the business world that the current Mini.
So now we have two people taking a dump on my thread? I thought marv was enough. To me, take the iMac improvements to the iMac thread. Let me enjoy my fantasy of the mini.
No, it doesn't. That's over now. How many businesses have you walked into recently and seen a Mini on the desk?
On a desk not much though Lenovo has a similar model,that is attracting lots of buyers. I do see Mini's in all sorts of other locations though. I know of one company that integrates them into interferometers. Another company uses them to set up public access points. The Mini is very useful when it comes to dedicated functionality.
Outside of specialty applications (where Raspberry Pi is winning) and SOHO office servers, who runs a Mini in their office?
As much as I like the Raspberry PI, I've yet to see serious corporate buy in. There is still a strong bias towards Intel hardware and traditional operating system support.
That being said I would like to see Apple offer up an ARM based Mac to grab some of the low end uses. This would likely still be a 2-300 dollar computer. The idea is that it would have an Apple supported OS.
A $799. iMac, slightly upgraded from the base model and sold to businesses in packs of 5 or 10, would add far more traction in the business world that the current Mini.
Many businesses simply won't buy "all in ones" even if it makes sense in a specific application.
Bring on the [S]Broadwell and[/S] Skylake minis. It's going to be awesome. Intel has fit Iris 6100 into a 15 watt chip formerly in a 28 watt chip. Integrated graphics is still nowhere near where discrete graphics is but it's getting better and better each year.
The margins on a low cost Mac mini are too low. Apple is still a business and will dedicate their resources to the areas where they feel the market is headed, not where it has been. Hence the Apple watch gets all of the development focus.
It's unfortunate, but Apple has taken its focus off of Intel based machines. It's now essentially a niche market.
Somehow I find this to be more of an appropriate response because it's looking at an overall view. I honestly don't know how I'll adjust my buying of Macs. I don't really want a PC (although I like the Intel NUC) and I just recently upgraded to Yosemite (after skipping Mountain Lion and Mavericks) and I like it. The finder icon I don't like as much but that's so minor. The mini is perfect for my needs but we'll have to see.
What's a good alternative to the mini if Apple quit on it?
First what makes you think Apple will quit on the Mini?
Second this has been brought up before but Lnovo and others have similar sized machines.
As for the current Minis they really aren't that bad of a machine as Apple focused on the GPU which is important for many users even if those users don't realize it. Yes quad cores would be nice but the Mini is no slouch for a low end machine.
I still have this desire to see Apple refactor the Mini into a scaled down Mac Pro looking platform. The idea being to produce a more thermal efficient design that would allow for better performance at the top end. Here I'm thinking +45 watt processors at the third level. I still see one of the minis biggest problems, especially with the current lineup, is that you don't get much extra for moving to the high end machine. Well much extra in the way of CPU performance. A perfect Mini line up in my mind would be 2, 3 & 4 GHz processors with the current pricing structure. The top end really needs to be quad core too.
I guess what I mean to say is what is comparable specs wise. From what I have seen from Lenovo, they don't really match up. GPU is very important to me yes but an alternative I was looking at was something sort of like this.
That's just last year's model, if you manage to get a 2012-2013 model, it'll be even cheaper.
SSDs are going to drop in price this year again so if they knock $100 off the new 15" MBPs or start them with 512GB SSDs, refurbs will drop similar amounts.
These laptops have faster GPUs than the mini would ever have had because they use a lot of power (60-90W) just for the chips. The mini has a maximum 65W PSU for everything and the chips maxed out at 35-45W.
The Pro is a bit out of my price range. It starts at $3k and I would want to add some stuff to it including more RAM, double the SSD, and better graphics even though the default is better than anything the mini could offer.
That's just last year's model, if you manage to get a 2012-2013 model, it'll be even cheaper.
SSDs are going to drop in price this year again so if they knock $100 off the new 15" MBPs or start them with 512GB SSDs, refurbs will drop similar amounts.
These laptops have faster GPUs than the mini would ever have had because they use a lot of power (60-90W) just for the chips. The mini has a maximum 65W PSU for everything and the chips maxed out at 35-45W.
I just wish they had a 15" rMBP equivalent offered in a box. I don't really want a screen honestly even if I'm not using it in a docking station. I know I'm being very picky.
The Pro is a bit out of my price range. It starts at $3k and I would want to add some stuff to it including more RAM, double the SSD, and better graphics even though the default is better than anything the mini could offer.
I just wish they had a 15" rMBP equivalent offered in a box. I don't really want a screen honestly even if I'm not using it in a docking station. I know I'm being very picky.
Sooner or later you will have to buy something! As for the Mni it would be really nice to see a Broadwell in that platform. At least in my 13" MBP Broadwells GPU produces a snappy GUI interface. Of course there is no telling when the Mini will be updated again.
As for alternatives you can always go the Linux box and dial in any performance metric you could want.
You're right and if they updated the mini to the same Broadwell processors as with the 13" rMBP, I would be sold. Haswell is great but it came along a bit too late.
I just wish they had a 15" rMBP equivalent offered in a box. I don't really want a screen honestly even if I'm not using it in a docking station. I know I'm being very picky.
I'd settle for what's in the 13" - like you I don't need (or want to pay for) a screen and battery.
128 gb PCIe
Skylake whatever processor
8 GB RAM - config. up to 32GB
TB 3, USB 3, SD reader, Ethernet, HDMI (i guess)
To me would be an attractive machine for, I dunno, starting 599 too wishful? I know its not a lot of storage for a desktop (though I'm using an 80GB SSD right now) but a TB external drive would more than make up for it. I guess a Fusion drive could solve it, but with Skylake/PCIe the new mini could be a nano without being too terrible on performance!
These laptops have faster GPUs than the mini would ever have had because they use a lot of power (60-90W) just for the chips. The mini has a maximum 65W PSU for everything and the chips maxed out at 35-45W.
Which laptops use 60-90W just for the chips? The rmbp can't possibly approach 90W for the chips, as that alone is more than the charger can supply. Chargers themselves are often rated on maximum throughput, so I don't know how much it can output sustained, but they have operated at a power deficit on some generations. I don't think they would anywhere near that great of a power deficit, as any moderately demanding task would draw from both charger and battery.
Comments
Yeah no... I agree on lowering the price of the base iMac but not scrapping the mini. Sorry.
Why, what grand purpose does it solve today?
Switchers? No, the cost of a new monitor, keyboard and mouse is trivial now. Apple's not even running switcher ads anymore.
Hobbyist? No, you can't upgrade anything in the box anymore.
Server? Maybe, but if Apple really cared they wouldn't put the power supply inside the box.
Home Video? No, Apple will have a better solution for that very soon.
Car? No, better solutions exist from practically everyone.
I'd like to see them rethink the Mini as they need to lower costs significantly. In that regard I'd like to see the low end Mini go Arm with Mac OS running on ARM. The high end machine can remain Intel but it needs to be as powerful as can be reasonably had in the Mini case. That means a quad core.
The low end Mini on the other hand would run an updated Apple designed ARM chip setup to address large blocks of RAM compared to the IPAds, 8GB would be about right if it where to launch this year. The idea is to ship a box that cost not much more than a couple of hundred and is useful in a variety of dedicated uses. The goal would be Mac OS but I'm really afraid that Apple will deliver such a box running iOS. IOS isn't a huge problem as the idea is to run dedicated apps for specific uses but I'd rather prefer Mac OS.
The thing is there are lots of uses for a small low cost box that can run a decent OS. I think this explains to popularity of Raspberry PI and other single board computers that often run cell phone hardware. Sometimes you want cheap more than anything else. Apple won't do extremely cheap of course but they could offer up something that cost a couple of hundred and isn't all that bad.
I need to add:
Part of the idea here is to see Apple take some initiative with technical education. It is something that is significantly lacking in the USA right now. A tiny PC that is cheap enough and open enough to get into the hands of students would be really nice. Note we are't talking about the niche that is filled by laptops and tablets but rather the niche that is technical education especially in high schools and to some extent junior schools. Of course the same open and widely supported hardware would have a bunch of other practice uses so this isn't a direct educational play.
Yes the world has changed and the desktop market is now nearly non existent outside of the business world. However the Mini does give Apple at least some traction in the business world.
No, it doesn't. That's over now. How many businesses have you walked into recently and seen a Mini on the desk?
Outside of specialty applications (where Raspberry Pi is winning) and SOHO office servers, who runs a Mini in their office?
A $799. iMac, slightly upgraded from the base model and sold to businesses in packs of 5 or 10, would add far more traction in the business world that the current Mini.
That being said I would like to see Apple offer up an ARM based Mac to grab some of the low end uses. This would likely still be a 2-300 dollar computer. The idea is that it would have an Apple supported OS.
Many businesses simply won't buy "all in ones" even if it makes sense in a specific application.
It's unfortunate, but Apple has taken its focus off of Intel based machines. It's now essentially a niche market.
First what makes you think Apple will quit on the Mini?
Second this has been brought up before but Lnovo and others have similar sized machines.
As for the current Minis they really aren't that bad of a machine as Apple focused on the GPU which is important for many users even if those users don't realize it. Yes quad cores would be nice but the Mini is no slouch for a low end machine.
I still have this desire to see Apple refactor the Mini into a scaled down Mac Pro looking platform. The idea being to produce a more thermal efficient design that would allow for better performance at the top end. Here I'm thinking +45 watt processors at the third level. I still see one of the minis biggest problems, especially with the current lineup, is that you don't get much extra for moving to the high end machine. Well much extra in the way of CPU performance. A perfect Mini line up in my mind would be 2, 3 & 4 GHz processors with the current pricing structure. The top end really needs to be quad core too.
http://www.thebookpc.com/product-p/de7200.htm <--- Obviously I would change it to an i7, 16 GB of RAM, and a 240 GB SSD.
I'd get 32 GB if it was allowed but right now I can only have that on the 27" iMac.
You can get up to 64GB on the Mac Pro.
Once you add all the necessary parts to that, it comes to just under $1200. The following is $1700:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FGXA2LL/A/Refurbished-154-inch-MacBook-Pro-22GHz-Quad-core-Intel-i7-with-Retina-Display
That's just last year's model, if you manage to get a 2012-2013 model, it'll be even cheaper.
SSDs are going to drop in price this year again so if they knock $100 off the new 15" MBPs or start them with 512GB SSDs, refurbs will drop similar amounts.
It has a larger footprint but you can get a dock:
http://hengedocks.com/pages/vertical-macbook-pro-retina
These laptops have faster GPUs than the mini would ever have had because they use a lot of power (60-90W) just for the chips. The mini has a maximum 65W PSU for everything and the chips maxed out at 35-45W.
The Pro is a bit out of my price range. It starts at $3k and I would want to add some stuff to it including more RAM, double the SSD, and better graphics even though the default is better than anything the mini could offer.
I just wish they had a 15" rMBP equivalent offered in a box. I don't really want a screen honestly even if I'm not using it in a docking station. I know I'm being very picky.
Sooner or later you will have to buy something! As for the Mni it would be really nice to see a Broadwell in that platform. At least in my 13" MBP Broadwells GPU produces a snappy GUI interface. Of course there is no telling when the Mini will be updated again.
As for alternatives you can always go the Linux box and dial in any performance metric you could want.
I just wish they had a 15" rMBP equivalent offered in a box. I don't really want a screen honestly even if I'm not using it in a docking station. I know I'm being very picky.
I'd settle for what's in the 13" - like you I don't need (or want to pay for) a screen and battery.
128 gb PCIe
Skylake whatever processor
8 GB RAM - config. up to 32GB
TB 3, USB 3, SD reader, Ethernet, HDMI (i guess)
To me would be an attractive machine for, I dunno, starting 599 too wishful? I know its not a lot of storage for a desktop (though I'm using an 80GB SSD right now) but a TB external drive would more than make up for it. I guess a Fusion drive could solve it, but with Skylake/PCIe the new mini could be a nano without being too terrible on performance!
Quote:
These laptops have faster GPUs than the mini would ever have had because they use a lot of power (60-90W) just for the chips. The mini has a maximum 65W PSU for everything and the chips maxed out at 35-45W.
Which laptops use 60-90W just for the chips? The rmbp can't possibly approach 90W for the chips, as that alone is more than the charger can supply. Chargers themselves are often rated on maximum throughput, so I don't know how much it can output sustained, but they have operated at a power deficit on some generations. I don't think they would anywhere near that great of a power deficit, as any moderately demanding task would draw from both charger and battery.