If Microsoft kills Office for the Mac, one of two things will happen. Either Microsoft will kill Apple, or Apple will cause the eventual downfall of Microsoft.
Office is ready to be commoditized. There's no reason people should continually hand over money just to maintain compatibility. If Apple is forced to develop it's own office suite or put a better interface on OpenOffice it makes sense for them to give it away or sell it for Windows also. Apple will have 125 retail stores and by heavily promoting OpenOffice for Windows they could do real damage to Microsoft. Imagine Apple Stores handing out free copies of OpenOffice to everyone coming in and having free in store tutorials.
Word and Excel cost $459 for the Mac and $100 on a Dell. Even if Apple gives away it's program for free to Windows users they still come out way ahead by making a standard program that Microsoft doesn't control.
It is the combination of Windows and Office that keeps Microsoft strong.
They are much more vulnerable if they only have a monopoly on one. Analysts have said that StarOffice may take 10% of the market by 2004. A really angry, determined Apple fighting for survival could take another 20%.
Paying $459 for Office stinks and makes the Mac more cost prohibitive than it already is for new buyers. Apple has a lot to lose here but they also have a lot to gain by getting away from Office.
This is certainly somehing within the Apple scope. But M$ Office is the defacto Office 'standard'. The only way to fight it is to make the absotutely greatest, most intuitively easy yet powerful Office Suite in existence that flawlessly converts/opens/ and reconverts ANY M$ OFFICE FILE yet works natively with well supported standards and 'open' formats. RTF, PDF, leverage their database technology, etc etc... Maybe talk to the good folks at Oxford and get a real dictionary put in there, there's lots that could be done.
Then, when it's just the greatest thing in the history of office computing... include it free with every mac you ship!
I'm all for MS and Apple duking it out, but if Apple wants the other 95%, their gonna have to have Office. Or something that's completely and utterly compatible. Why? Because the 5% who use Macs may not need it for Office stuff, but the large majority of the other 95% need it. So if Office is gone, they can't come over, even if they want to.
AW has got to be it. Free for all Mac users. Coming out Wed. Why else would Apple release QT6 now? To get some of that bandwidth freed up, that's why. This macworld just got very interesting....
Hand out CDs all day long to your heart's content and it still won't make a hill of beans difference to the sea of people who buy computers and have no idea that silly people like us sit around and talk about this stuff.
Not a bit.
Certainly this is Microsoft yanking on Apple's chain, just to remind them how important the M$ Suite is to business users and how easily Apple's "Switch" campaign can be derailed by a widespread panic that they might remove their support from the platform. I can hear the gang back in Redmond pumping their fists in the air and yelling "Switch THIS Jobsy!".
Don't count on DOJ to solve this issue, how many years have YOU got to wait around for a trial date?
It -IS- in Apple's best interest to maintain a good working relationship with M$. An Apple-branded office productivity suite is just not going to sell. MS Word is a bloody STANDARD as is EXCEL. It just IS.
<strong>What good comes of alienating and trying to attack Microsoft?
What happened to the cooperative attitude?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I look at it like this. MS isn't a friend, it's like the big giant cat that plays with its prey before actually killing it. If you're a tiny little mouse, do you cooperate or do you try to defeat the cat?
In motorsports, this is what happened with IRL vs CART. Basically, CART was supreme until the IRL came along, started by the guy who owned Indianapolis Motor Speedway. He took CART's crown race away from them and started a very similar, but inferior rival series. CART thought it could survive by being better, by showcasing better drivers and more varied tracks and not just ovals. Eventually the scale started tipping in favor of the IRL because it was cheaper to run and it had the "Greatest Spectacle in Racing." CART tried to cooperate with Microsoft by cutting deals.
1) CART would leave the month of May open in its schedule to let drivers race at Indy.
2) Bullied by Toyota (which was already defecting to the IRL,) CART would adopt the IRL engine package 3.5L V8s vs 2.65L turbo V8s.
3) CART manufacturers like Lola would help build a 3rd IRL chassis.
CART went through with these changes only to be shot down by the IRL again. The IRL denied CART's new engine package. They gave the new chassis contract to some upstart instead of Lola. As a result of the turmoil, CART had been left little choices. They had already decided on a new engine package, but they later went back to the old package. One of CART's chassis makers went into receivership and almost all three of CART's engine makers were gone. Honda and Ford were very unhappy with the last minute decision to go to naturally aspirated low-tech engines. Honda went to the IRL and Ford decided it would seize the opportunity to become the sole engine maker in CART.
The point is that companies that let giants bully them and strong-arm them into special agreements usually don't make it. The giant hasn't play fair, and never will.
Anti-trust? MS doesn't care anymore. The DOJ can't stop them.
<strong>doesn't surprise me that they are startign with the strong-arming tactics again. now that the exclusive office development deal is over, the MacBU is generally considered a rogue nation int he M$ empire, and Apple's new Switch campaign, where you get a bunch of people ragging on Windows for 30 seconds at a time, well...
I'me betting Mr. Ballmer is beginning to sweat. And we all know that is not a pretty sight. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I really wouldn't take this for a lot more than what it is, a software developer that's a little peeved at Apple. The MacBU has just released a statement to try and motivate Apple on some other issues to which you aren't aware. Trust me these aren't true strong-arming tactics
Frankly I have to agree with the statement Apple does need to do more to push OS X adoption. A large part of that push into the mainstream will come with the release of Jaguar but there is a lot more Apple could be doing to speed up the process.
[quote]MS isn't a friend, it's like the big giant cat that plays with its prey before actually killing it.<hr></blockquote>
If that was the case... why didn't MS finish Apple off at the worst of it instead of investing $150 million?
Apple isn't real competition to Microsoft, I don't see Microsoft losing a whole lot to Apple's Switch campaign.
Microsoft certainly has something to gain by keeping Apple alive but in its place, but I don't see why Microsoft would take special effort in an attempt to kill off Apple.
If that was the case... why didn't MS finish Apple off at the worst of it instead of investing $150 million?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Like I said, Microsoft is playing with its food. And back then Microsoft was afraid the DoJ might actually do something to them. Now they are not afraid.
With the Dubya DOJ, M$ has nothing to worry about. The Dubya administration isn't pro-business, it IS business. The entire administration is run by businessmen. They will never break up M$, never, because they do what's best for business, not what's best for Americans.
As long as our government is run by business, M$ will be able to do whatever they please. If they want Apple dead, then they do it. M$ can kill Apple quickly and easily, there is no question about it, shut down the MBU and Apple's marketshare will slide into oblivion.
The important thing to remember is that Dubya will not be in office for a second term, and whoever replaces him won't be business. Although democrats are beholden to corporations, they are not part of corporations, and this is a big distinction that many people tend to forget.
On MS's web-page and promotions, they market Office 2001 for 9 and Office X for X simultaniously.
Kevin Brown has said that because of Mac OS X, they decided to focus not on an upgrade with a ton of new features, but a good Mac OS X port.
Well, I guess MS did the port, expects money from users forced to upgrade to X by Apple. But Apple's not forcing anyone.
I can see why they're annoyed.
But who cares, it's MS, screw them over for a change and viva la revolution!
Maybe the 100 metres underground project at 1 Infinite Loop is not X for x86, but iDesk, OfficeDesk and iSurf. iDesk is GPLed and OfficeDesk is $200 for PC and Mac.
iSurf is Mozilla based, GPLed with an HIG compliant, Aqua interface. Or maybe OmniWeb 5 will transmorgify into iSurf, repeating the SoundJam to iTunes transmorgification.
Apple decides that they can't take MS stalling no more, and flicks the switch.
[quote]Like I said, Microsoft is playing with its food.<hr></blockquote>
Again, what does Microsoft stand to gain from Apple's death?
------
[quote]Apple decides that they can't take MS stalling no more, and flicks the switch.<hr></blockquote>
MS stalling... on what?
I like the 180 on Office here. Usually you guys are saying that not only does the Mac have Office, but it's better than the Windows version. And now it's a buggy piece of crap. Interesting.
The big question to me is: What has Microsoft done in the last 5 years to Apple that's made them such a horrible enemy?
<a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0207/16.msapple.php"; target="_blank">Apple responds</a> I dont think apple is just going bend over for microsft anymore and i think apple is in a great positition to not do so anymore. Reall I dont think the end of office for the mac means the end of mac all together. We have Apple and open source. I`m sure apple could release some office app much better then well office. Look at the iapps and pro apps we already have. I`m sure the reason they havent yet is the deal with microsoft they had. What ever happens I think in the comming years we will see a change in personal computing and the comanies responsible for it as we know it
actually, i think the only thing holding back os x adoption among its strongest base -- the designers and output facilities -- is quark.
i hate to say it, but all of our files are still quark files (and we're talking hundreds upon hundreds), and our two main output facilities still get a large majority of their files as quarkxpress documents.
until quark gets their sh!t together, os x adoption among the faithful fanbase will remain low.
and quark saying xpress runs under the classic environment is laughable. hell, it's the only application that consistently kills my classic environment (yes, i am trying to run quark within mac os x, but it's been a horrible experience).
if redmond wants to be pissed at someone, fly a group to denver and read them the riot act.
p.s. also remember that photoshop 7 was only just released, what, 8 weeks ago? that was the other killer-app everyone was waiting for, and if you depend on a third-party plug-in, you are STILL waiting...
to lay all the blame on apple's marketing is utterly moronic.
Well, lets' start with the "Switch" section and to the Top Ten Questions page (or the Most Frequently Asked Questions page...take your pick)...Question #1 Can I run MS Office?
"Yes. Microsoft Office v.X for Mac OS X gives you Word, PowerPoint and Excel, all with the same familiar interfaces. And thanks to exclusive features, the Mac versions actually improve on their Windows counterparts in several areas. Office documents are all fully compatible between Mac and Windows, so you can share everything from spreadsheets to presentations, and they?ll open painlessly at each end."
Then there is the link to MS Office X page on Apple's site...
Hey, lots of information here. Even a link to MS's Mactopia site about MS Office for OS X and Entourage X. Oh hey, there is a link back on the Apple site/MS Office X that reads;
"This product is available at the Apple Store".
Now, let's take a look at the Mac OS X section on Apple's site...click on Applications...Hmmm, Ok. "Office v.X for Mac" That link takes you here...
...wow! Another page on Apple's site wholely devoted to MS Office X with Buy Now, Upgrade Now and even a "Free Test Drive" link...
I also remember when MS Office X was released Apple had it plastered on their home page for weeks...
So, has Apple been lax in promoting Office X? Don't think so. Have they been lax in promoting OS X? I don't think so. They have been touting it for three ****ing years. But maybe they could do more. Still, I don't think so. They have online demos and pages and pages of information on their web site. And have had reams of good media coverage on the web and in magazines.
A gift from her mother (her brother got a duel MP Power Mac G4 w/Super drive and a 17-inch Apple Studio Display...haven't seen that one yet).
I came over to help her with installing softwear. She had been a Windows user from the start and never used a Mac before.
What I thought was cool was the iBook (as all Macs now) was set with OS X as the default OS. She didn't really know this was the case...just thought OS X was the OS for Apple computers. She already had it all down pat! I showed her a few tips, but she had already had mail, iTunes, iPhoto and the OS X basics learned.
I did show her that OS 9 was still on there and how to set up her start up disc. Her brother had software for OS 9 but hadn't gotten around to installing them. She was having too much fun with OS X! She says she'll use Office for OS X and that she'll stay in OS X and use Classic for a couple of OS 9 applications.
I had thought that having OS X as the default OS would irk some newbies but as far as I can tell, this "newbie" was familierized and running her OS X and applications as soon as she booted it up for the first time. "It's so much easier on a Mac!" she said..."
I thought this was a really interesting experience. She didn't have any clue that underneath OS X (set now by Apple on all their machines as the default OS) was OS 9. She just booted up went through the demo and was on the web and working in a few hours and within a few weeks was comfortable in OS X. Maybe that's why MS is scared...how many newbies to who bought a PC breeze through XP?
That's all I have to write...I think MS is FUDDING again as usual...we'll see... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[quote]Ok. Has Apple lagged on promoting MS Office X?<hr></blockquote>
That's not the complaint.
MacBU's complain is that Apple hasn't been pushing OSX hard enough, not Office v.X.
Apple needs to advertise Office v.X like mad, in my opinion, it's depressing how many people out there think that Macs don't have the apps in the Office suite.
The switch campaign should say this:
"You can run Office (that means: Word, Excel, Powerpoint) on the Mac, and it's prettier!"
I think that Apple has not pushed OS X very hard YET because it is not ready. But as of Jaguar I think we will see a change. The switch campaign is the start, any Windows users who visit an Apple store would be dismayed at the aparent speed. No I am not talking mhz, I am talking GUI. What happens behind the GUI is invisable to most users, but we don't have a snappy GUI yet.
When Jaguar is released, the big push will come and I won't be suprised if OS9 isn't there. Nearly all major apps now have a carbonised version.
If MS stopped selling office 2001 in favour of the OS X version perhapps more people would switch.
<strong>Office is overated. I'm amazed nobody has come along and bent it over for a damn good hosing.
Yeesh. An overated, fussy, cluttered ('So M$') piece of software. Most of M$ Office I find tacky from the weak Powerpoint to the 'cheap' junk pile that is 'Office'. There's not an ounce of quality or class in the suite.
If there's one company that can come out with an elegant office solution.
Alas Apple needs M$ for credibility, even if nobody uses Office:mac it needs to be available so that managers see Macs as viable.
Apple would be wise to make friends with M$. Pay them a few million $$ and get Office bundled (or just Word X) with every new iMac & iBook.
Nothing can be gained by pissing BillG off. Losing 10% of the Windows market won't hurt them, but gaining 10% would make Apple so coming to a new bundling agreement would be extremely sensible.
"You can run Office (that means: Word, Excel, Powerpoint) on the Mac, and it's prettier!"
That's all it needs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uhhh, isn't that what they have done? I showed you all the links and where the promos were... oops, you meant the switch ads...sorry
Apple's done a damn fine job there. Now as for OS X? Yes, there should be more. I would have liked in the Switch ads the "Switchers" were shown working/enjoying their Macs. None of this twitching warm body standing in front of a white backdrop/see every pimple testimonials (funny, I've already seen an investment company copy them).
Show them setting up, surfing, playing games and working with OS X! Ok, I agree, Apple flubbed again...still their web site has it all there...at the end of every switch ad there is the web site address...BUT I think they should advertise their stores on TV and in newpapers in the areas where their Apple Stores are a lot more than they have done (if ever).
Another thing, when Microsoft promoted XP they had a lot more money than Apple to do so. Apple still can too. I think they've become too dependent on the web site. They need more print and TV presence.
[quote]I use Excel, I use Word, I use Lotus notes. And they work great.<hr></blockquote>
Damon Wright:
[quote]I had tons of Microsoft Word documents, PowerPoint presentations, movie files and audio files floating around on my PC's hard drive. But when I put them into my new Macintosh, every single file opened flawlessly.<hr></blockquote>
Comments
Office is ready to be commoditized. There's no reason people should continually hand over money just to maintain compatibility. If Apple is forced to develop it's own office suite or put a better interface on OpenOffice it makes sense for them to give it away or sell it for Windows also. Apple will have 125 retail stores and by heavily promoting OpenOffice for Windows they could do real damage to Microsoft. Imagine Apple Stores handing out free copies of OpenOffice to everyone coming in and having free in store tutorials.
Word and Excel cost $459 for the Mac and $100 on a Dell. Even if Apple gives away it's program for free to Windows users they still come out way ahead by making a standard program that Microsoft doesn't control.
It is the combination of Windows and Office that keeps Microsoft strong.
They are much more vulnerable if they only have a monopoly on one. Analysts have said that StarOffice may take 10% of the market by 2004. A really angry, determined Apple fighting for survival could take another 20%.
Paying $459 for Office stinks and makes the Mac more cost prohibitive than it already is for new buyers. Apple has a lot to lose here but they also have a lot to gain by getting away from Office.
Then, when it's just the greatest thing in the history of office computing... include it free with every mac you ship!
AW has got to be it. Free for all Mac users. Coming out Wed. Why else would Apple release QT6 now? To get some of that bandwidth freed up, that's why. This macworld just got very interesting....
Hand out CDs all day long to your heart's content and it still won't make a hill of beans difference to the sea of people who buy computers and have no idea that silly people like us sit around and talk about this stuff.
Not a bit.
Certainly this is Microsoft yanking on Apple's chain, just to remind them how important the M$ Suite is to business users and how easily Apple's "Switch" campaign can be derailed by a widespread panic that they might remove their support from the platform. I can hear the gang back in Redmond pumping their fists in the air and yelling "Switch THIS Jobsy!".
Don't count on DOJ to solve this issue, how many years have YOU got to wait around for a trial date?
It -IS- in Apple's best interest to maintain a good working relationship with M$. An Apple-branded office productivity suite is just not going to sell. MS Word is a bloody STANDARD as is EXCEL. It just IS.
Such interesting times in which we live....
<strong>What good comes of alienating and trying to attack Microsoft?
What happened to the cooperative attitude?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I look at it like this. MS isn't a friend, it's like the big giant cat that plays with its prey before actually killing it. If you're a tiny little mouse, do you cooperate or do you try to defeat the cat?
In motorsports, this is what happened with IRL vs CART. Basically, CART was supreme until the IRL came along, started by the guy who owned Indianapolis Motor Speedway. He took CART's crown race away from them and started a very similar, but inferior rival series. CART thought it could survive by being better, by showcasing better drivers and more varied tracks and not just ovals. Eventually the scale started tipping in favor of the IRL because it was cheaper to run and it had the "Greatest Spectacle in Racing." CART tried to cooperate with Microsoft by cutting deals.
1) CART would leave the month of May open in its schedule to let drivers race at Indy.
2) Bullied by Toyota (which was already defecting to the IRL,) CART would adopt the IRL engine package 3.5L V8s vs 2.65L turbo V8s.
3) CART manufacturers like Lola would help build a 3rd IRL chassis.
CART went through with these changes only to be shot down by the IRL again. The IRL denied CART's new engine package. They gave the new chassis contract to some upstart instead of Lola. As a result of the turmoil, CART had been left little choices. They had already decided on a new engine package, but they later went back to the old package. One of CART's chassis makers went into receivership and almost all three of CART's engine makers were gone. Honda and Ford were very unhappy with the last minute decision to go to naturally aspirated low-tech engines. Honda went to the IRL and Ford decided it would seize the opportunity to become the sole engine maker in CART.
The point is that companies that let giants bully them and strong-arm them into special agreements usually don't make it. The giant hasn't play fair, and never will.
Anti-trust? MS doesn't care anymore. The DOJ can't stop them.
<strong>doesn't surprise me that they are startign with the strong-arming tactics again. now that the exclusive office development deal is over, the MacBU is generally considered a rogue nation int he M$ empire, and Apple's new Switch campaign, where you get a bunch of people ragging on Windows for 30 seconds at a time, well...
I'me betting Mr. Ballmer is beginning to sweat. And we all know that is not a pretty sight.
I really wouldn't take this for a lot more than what it is, a software developer that's a little peeved at Apple. The MacBU has just released a statement to try and motivate Apple on some other issues to which you aren't aware. Trust me these aren't true strong-arming tactics
Frankly I have to agree with the statement Apple does need to do more to push OS X adoption. A large part of that push into the mainstream will come with the release of Jaguar but there is a lot more Apple could be doing to speed up the process.
If that was the case... why didn't MS finish Apple off at the worst of it instead of investing $150 million?
Apple isn't real competition to Microsoft, I don't see Microsoft losing a whole lot to Apple's Switch campaign.
Microsoft certainly has something to gain by keeping Apple alive but in its place, but I don't see why Microsoft would take special effort in an attempt to kill off Apple.
<strong>
If that was the case... why didn't MS finish Apple off at the worst of it instead of investing $150 million?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Like I said, Microsoft is playing with its food. And back then Microsoft was afraid the DoJ might actually do something to them. Now they are not afraid.
As long as our government is run by business, M$ will be able to do whatever they please. If they want Apple dead, then they do it. M$ can kill Apple quickly and easily, there is no question about it, shut down the MBU and Apple's marketshare will slide into oblivion.
The important thing to remember is that Dubya will not be in office for a second term, and whoever replaces him won't be business. Although democrats are beholden to corporations, they are not part of corporations, and this is a big distinction that many people tend to forget.
Kevin Brown has said that because of Mac OS X, they decided to focus not on an upgrade with a ton of new features, but a good Mac OS X port.
Well, I guess MS did the port, expects money from users forced to upgrade to X by Apple. But Apple's not forcing anyone.
I can see why they're annoyed.
But who cares, it's MS, screw them over for a change and viva la revolution!
Maybe the 100 metres underground project at 1 Infinite Loop is not X for x86, but iDesk, OfficeDesk and iSurf. iDesk is GPLed and OfficeDesk is $200 for PC and Mac.
iSurf is Mozilla based, GPLed with an HIG compliant, Aqua interface. Or maybe OmniWeb 5 will transmorgify into iSurf, repeating the SoundJam to iTunes transmorgification.
Apple decides that they can't take MS stalling no more, and flicks the switch.
Barto
[ 07-16-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
Again, what does Microsoft stand to gain from Apple's death?
------
[quote]Apple decides that they can't take MS stalling no more, and flicks the switch.<hr></blockquote>
MS stalling... on what?
I like the 180 on Office here. Usually you guys are saying that not only does the Mac have Office, but it's better than the Windows version. And now it's a buggy piece of crap. Interesting.
The big question to me is: What has Microsoft done in the last 5 years to Apple that's made them such a horrible enemy?
<strong>
MS stalling... on what?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not saying that they are stalling, Office X is great compared to the Windows version.
I'm saying if this pissed them off so much they started to either stall or pull the plug on MacBU out of the blue.
I'm also saying that I don't give a rats about Microsoft, including the MacBU. If they want my respect, drop everything and work for Sun.
MS works by having money making units such as MacBU, and loss-making monopoly-extending units like X-Box.
Using MacBU products feeds the evil empire.
Barto
[ 07-16-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
i hate to say it, but all of our files are still quark files (and we're talking hundreds upon hundreds), and our two main output facilities still get a large majority of their files as quarkxpress documents.
until quark gets their sh!t together, os x adoption among the faithful fanbase will remain low.
and quark saying xpress runs under the classic environment is laughable. hell, it's the only application that consistently kills my classic environment (yes, i am trying to run quark within mac os x, but it's been a horrible experience).
if redmond wants to be pissed at someone, fly a group to denver and read them the riot act.
p.s. also remember that photoshop 7 was only just released, what, 8 weeks ago? that was the other killer-app everyone was waiting for, and if you depend on a third-party plug-in, you are STILL waiting...
to lay all the blame on apple's marketing is utterly moronic.
Well, lets' start with the "Switch" section and to the Top Ten Questions page (or the Most Frequently Asked Questions page...take your pick)...Question #1 Can I run MS Office?
"Yes. Microsoft Office v.X for Mac OS X gives you Word, PowerPoint and Excel, all with the same familiar interfaces. And thanks to exclusive features, the Mac versions actually improve on their Windows counterparts in several areas. Office documents are all fully compatible between Mac and Windows, so you can share everything from spreadsheets to presentations, and they?ll open painlessly at each end."
Then there is the link to MS Office X page on Apple's site...
<a href="http://www.apple.com/switch/questions/applications/office.html"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/switch/questions/applications/office.html</a>;
Go to their Ten Reasons to Switch section on their site...#8...
<a href="http://www.apple.com/switch/whyswitch/"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/switch/whyswitch/</a>;
There's that link to the MS Office X page on Apple's site again...
<a href="http://www.apple.com/switch/questions/applications/office.html"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/switch/questions/applications/office.html</a>;
Hey, lots of information here. Even a link to MS's Mactopia site about MS Office for OS X and Entourage X. Oh hey, there is a link back on the Apple site/MS Office X that reads;
"This product is available at the Apple Store".
Now, let's take a look at the Mac OS X section on Apple's site...click on Applications...Hmmm, Ok. "Office v.X for Mac" That link takes you here...
<a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/applications/office/"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/macosx/applications/office/</a>;
...wow! Another page on Apple's site wholely devoted to MS Office X with Buy Now, Upgrade Now and even a "Free Test Drive" link...
I also remember when MS Office X was released Apple had it plastered on their home page for weeks...
So, has Apple been lax in promoting Office X? Don't think so. Have they been lax in promoting OS X? I don't think so. They have been touting it for three ****ing years. But maybe they could do more. Still, I don't think so. They have online demos and pages and pages of information on their web site. And have had reams of good media coverage on the web and in magazines.
Let me share again a little experience I had that I posted <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=001884"; target="_blank">here</a> last week...
"My friend's girlfriend got the $1,199 iBook:
12.1-inch TFT XGA display
600MHz PowerPC G3
512K L2 cache @600MHz
System bus @100MHz
128MB SDRAM memory
20GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-ROM
A gift from her mother (her brother got a duel MP Power Mac G4 w/Super drive and a 17-inch Apple Studio Display...haven't seen that one yet).
I came over to help her with installing softwear. She had been a Windows user from the start and never used a Mac before.
What I thought was cool was the iBook (as all Macs now) was set with OS X as the default OS. She didn't really know this was the case...just thought OS X was the OS for Apple computers. She already had it all down pat! I showed her a few tips, but she had already had mail, iTunes, iPhoto and the OS X basics learned.
I did show her that OS 9 was still on there and how to set up her start up disc. Her brother had software for OS 9 but hadn't gotten around to installing them. She was having too much fun with OS X! She says she'll use Office for OS X and that she'll stay in OS X and use Classic for a couple of OS 9 applications.
I had thought that having OS X as the default OS would irk some newbies but as far as I can tell, this "newbie" was familierized and running her OS X and applications as soon as she booted it up for the first time. "It's so much easier on a Mac!" she said..."
I thought this was a really interesting experience. She didn't have any clue that underneath OS X (set now by Apple on all their machines as the default OS) was OS 9. She just booted up went through the demo and was on the web and working in a few hours and within a few weeks was comfortable in OS X. Maybe that's why MS is scared...how many newbies to who bought a PC breeze through XP?
That's all I have to write...I think MS is FUDDING again as usual...we'll see... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
That's not the complaint.
MacBU's complain is that Apple hasn't been pushing OSX hard enough, not Office v.X.
Apple needs to advertise Office v.X like mad, in my opinion, it's depressing how many people out there think that Macs don't have the apps in the Office suite.
The switch campaign should say this:
"You can run Office (that means: Word, Excel, Powerpoint) on the Mac, and it's prettier!"
That's all it needs.
When Jaguar is released, the big push will come and I won't be suprised if OS9 isn't there. Nearly all major apps now have a carbonised version.
If MS stopped selling office 2001 in favour of the OS X version perhapps more people would switch.
<strong>Office is overated. I'm amazed nobody has come along and bent it over for a damn good hosing.
Yeesh. An overated, fussy, cluttered ('So M$') piece of software. Most of M$ Office I find tacky from the weak Powerpoint to the 'cheap' junk pile that is 'Office'. There's not an ounce of quality or class in the suite.
If there's one company that can come out with an elegant office solution.
It's Apple.
Lemon Bon Bon
[ 07-15-2002: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Alas Apple needs M$ for credibility, even if nobody uses Office:mac it needs to be available so that managers see Macs as viable.
Apple would be wise to make friends with M$. Pay them a few million $$ and get Office bundled (or just Word X) with every new iMac & iBook.
Nothing can be gained by pissing BillG off. Losing 10% of the Windows market won't hurt them, but gaining 10% would make Apple so coming to a new bundling agreement would be extremely sensible.
<strong>The switch campaign should say this:
"You can run Office (that means: Word, Excel, Powerpoint) on the Mac, and it's prettier!"
That's all it needs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uhhh, isn't that what they have done? I showed you all the links and where the promos were...
Apple's done a damn fine job there. Now as for OS X? Yes, there should be more. I would have liked in the Switch ads the "Switchers" were shown working/enjoying their Macs. None of this twitching warm body standing in front of a white backdrop/see every pimple testimonials (funny, I've already seen an investment company copy them).
Show them setting up, surfing, playing games and working with OS X! Ok, I agree, Apple flubbed again...still their web site has it all there...at the end of every switch ad there is the web site address...BUT I think they should advertise their stores on TV and in newpapers in the areas where their Apple Stores are a lot more than they have done (if ever).
Another thing, when Microsoft promoted XP they had a lot more money than Apple to do so. Apple still can too. I think they've become too dependent on the web site. They need more print and TV presence.
[ 07-16-2002: Message edited by: Artman @_@ ]</p>
David Carey:
[quote]I use Excel, I use Word, I use Lotus notes. And they work great.<hr></blockquote>
Damon Wright:
[quote]I had tons of Microsoft Word documents, PowerPoint presentations, movie files and audio files floating around on my PC's hard drive. But when I put them into my new Macintosh, every single file opened flawlessly.<hr></blockquote>