beautiful Swiss premium mechanical watches have defined the premium market for many decades. including high fashion jewelry watches.
that's over now.
You might wish to ponder the distinction between "people here predicted" versus "one person slightly exaggerated for effect."
That's all you got!? Pathetic.
It's enough to prove that I didn't make it up, and many predictions are exaggerated for effect. There were plenty of others. I just didn't bother to copy and paste them.
People, what people? The only one predicting complete failure was Benjamin Frost, and there wasn't a shortage of people claiming that Rolex, Omega, etc.. would become the new Palm, or Blackberry. In other words either dead, or having a slow death.
Nope. Tons of people in the media and Swiss watch makers said the AppleWatch would fail.
It's enough to prove that I didn't make it up, and many predictions are exaggerated for effect. There were plenty of others. I just didn't bother to copy and paste them.
Sure. Of course.
Why don't you just admit that you exaggerated too. In the name of getting in your usual anti-Apple dig.
Or perhaps you were trying to be funny, but it just came through as being lame.
It's enough to prove that I didn't make it up, and many predictions are exaggerated for effect. There were plenty of others. I just didn't bother to copy and paste them.
Sure. Of course.
Why don't you just admit that you exaggerated too. In the name of getting in your usual anti-Apple dig.
Or perhaps you were trying to be funny, but it just came through as being lame.
I'm guilty of exaggerating at times. I'll admit that, but people did make claims that the Apple Watch would be the downfall of the Swiss watchmakers, some even said the Swiss economy would take a hit just like Finland's has due to the failure of Nokia.
Mr Ed, unfortunately LVMH have revived the dead horse with the injection of a $1,800 competitor.
That said, the Apple watch is disposable and will only convert people looking at entry level swiss watches, not the larger swiss watch market. The economic effects in China which he is quoted about, will also affect the fashion and high end car industries too.
But it is true, the internet was down, not due to curling, but due to a Canadian teams’ world series winning run of a north american cricket game, being played out east.
I'm guilty of exaggerating at times. I'll admit that, but people did make claims that the Apple Watch would be the downfall of the Swiss watchmakers, some even said the Swiss economy would take a hit just like Finland's has due to the failure of Nokia.
It's still too early to judge the impact on the industry and on the country.
I happen to believe that Apple will really take a toll on the $150 - $1500 segment of the market, the segment that it is the most profitable segment for the industry. It is a huge source of employment and export earnings for Switzerland. But it'll take a another two or three years before we know.
However, their pursuing the Android route is not the way to go. It screams "cheap", and is incompatible with the "Crafted in Switzerland" cache they have.
For a year now, that's been my opinion on how I think Swiss or other mid-range watch makers are going to survive in a world or connected wearables. Apple isn't likely to license wOS, and even if they did they would probably have far too many requirements for what the device does. With Android Wear, even more so than with Android for a phone or tablet, or Windows for a desktop or notebook, unique HW is important.
This is what Android Wear can offer watch makers and their customers. You want a pedometer and heart rate monitor in a standard watch? Fine. Just use BT to connect to your smartphone and you don't even need to see any digital display on the watch, only the app, which on iOS could feed into HealthKit.
...and Tag does appreciate Apple proving the market will support premium smart-watches.
“We were a little bit concerned about the price, because we’re going to sell it at $1,800 … and now we are quite reassured because Apple is telling us we can sell at $1,500 or even more,” (CEO, Jean-Claude Biver) said. “I’m very, very pleased.”
I'm guilty of exaggerating at times. I'll admit that, but people did make claims that the Apple Watch would be the downfall of the Swiss watchmakers, some even said the Swiss economy would take a hit just like Finland's has due to the failure of Nokia.
However, their pursuing the Android route is not the way to go. It screams "cheap", and is incompatible with the "Crafted in Switzerland" cache they have.
What choice do they have? They don't have the programming chops to build their own proprietary software.
It's still too early to judge the impact on the industry and on the country.
I happen to believe that Apple will really take a toll on the $150 - $1500 segment of the market, the segment that it is the most profitable segment for the industry. It is a huge source of employment and export earnings for Switzerland. But it'll take a another two or three years before we know.
However, their pursuing the Android route is not the way to go. It screams "cheap", and is incompatible with the "Crafted in Switzerland" cache they have.
Going Android is a huge mistake. Tag should partner up with Apple.
A Tag AppleWatch would be pretty cool actually.
You know all too well that Apple would never do that.
Can we stop with the posts that begin the stuttering but but but? It comes across as incredibly childish
It doesn't just come across that way, it is incredibly immature, and sophomoric behavior. The fact that calling people on it produces even more trollish behavior to intentionally irritate others reading the forum is proof. It's incredibly small minded, from folks who routinely lace their posts with expletives in lieu of reasonable debate.
Fortunately I only see these types of posts when others quote them. The "block" feature is an unfortunate but welcome reality to this forum, and people who begin sentences this way are instantly added to mine. Life is too short to wade through the opinions from those who feel this is intellectually acceptable discourse.
Tell that to the folks at Vertu and the folks who buy their phones.
all 5 guys that buy Vertu phones? Sucker born every day.
"Taking Pogliani's estimated average price of £5,000, this translates to around 26,700 annual sales. Vertu says it has sold 400,000 handsets since 2002."
For some perspective, Ferrari says it sold 6,922 cars in 2013. Rolls-Royce sold 4,063 cars in 2014. The people who buy those kinds of vehicles are the same people who can afford a Vertu without batting an eye.
They are also the same people who might buy an Apple Watch Edition. I'm curious to see how many Apple Watch Edition will sell annually.
Would you call owners of a Ferrari or Rolls-Royce or Apple Watch Edition suckers as well?
Buying a $20K Rolex, the movement inside is the same as a $6k Rolex, you are just paying for the 'bling' Gold/Diamonds. The reason these watches hold their value is they increase the price of a new watch a few hundred, so in 5 years the same watch will cost $1k more. I don't see the Gold Apple watch holding the value in the same way.
Apple maintains the price and offers more benefits. But they need to let the watch work in isolation from a phone i.e. with it's own LTE connection and improve the battery life.
From the people I know with Swiss watches, they tried the Apple but it didn't meet their needs, number one issue being battery life.
So because Apple made a deal with Hermes you think they'd make one with Tag? You think Hermes is making $0 from the partnership?
Its a possibility. Apple partnering with prestigious Swiss watch makers will benefit both parties. Apple will gain old school prestige and the Swiss maker will be able to attract additional foot traffic and not be seen as an old man brand.
I think Hermes is making some money from the Watch deal. But Hermes is in a better position than Tag.
IMO, Apple will select a Swiss watch brand to partner with. Just makes too much sense. But they will only select ONE. So Tag would be smart to be proactive. There will always be a market for mechanical watches and the brand that partners with Apple will flourish while many other brands will be crushed.
When I think Swiss watch I think IWC, Longines, and
Jaeger-LeCoultre (one of Jony's favorites). If Apple is going to partner with one it'll be with a Jaeger-LeCoultre type, and not with Tag.
"Taking Pogliani's estimated average price of £5,000, this translates to around 26,700 annual sales. Vertu says it has sold 400,000 handsets since 2002."
For some perspective, Ferrari says it sold 6,922 cars in 2013. Rolls-Royce sold 4,063 cars in 2014. The people who buy those kinds of vehicles are the same people who can afford a Vertu without batting an eye.
They are also the same people who might buy an Apple Watch Edition. I'm curious to see how many Apple Watch Edition will sell annually.
Would you call owners of a Ferrari or Rolls-Royce or Apple Watch Edition suckers as well?
The amount of Vertu phones sold has dropped like a rock since the iPhone came out.
A few thousand Vertu phones sold a year is literally a piece of dust in Apple's point of view.
Ferrari/Rolls-Royce buyers are not suckers because those are awesome products that keep their value very well. Vertu phones? Hell no. A Vertu phone from 2010 is worth less than the gold/diamonds on it.
Citation please. Otherwise you are just making that up.
And Vertu is not in competition with Apple just as Rolls-Royce is not in competition with Cadillac.
The article I linked to was from Feb. 2015 which seems recent enough, and it appears they are doing fine within their small niche.
It's fine that you don't like Vertu and hate Android with the burning fury of a thousand suns. But the fact remains plenty of people like their Vertu phones as they do other luxury goods.
Also the fact that something retains its value is not the only measure used that makes something luxurious. If that were true then a Honda Accord could be considered a luxury car since it retains its value so well. If I get a custom pair of shoes made for $5000 they are of virtually no worth to anyone but myself since they are made specifically for my feet. They will not hold their value and yet they are 100% a luxury item.
Just skimming the articles, the wording from Vertu is interesting: sales have grown 9 out of the past ten years. The one year they didn't grow was 2008, for obvious reasons.
That may well mean that sales dropped "like a rock" to 10% in 2008, and have been growing again since, but are still an order of magnitude lower than they were. Or it might not. We don't know.
But wording it in that specific way: how else would you interpret it other than "iPhone hurt us A LOT, but things are slowly getting better again"?
"Taking Pogliani's estimated average price of £5,000, this translates to around 26,700 annual sales. Vertu says it has sold 400,000 handsets since 2002."
For some perspective, Ferrari says it sold 6,922 cars in 2013. Rolls-Royce sold 4,063 cars in 2014. The people who buy those kinds of vehicles are the same people who can afford a Vertu without batting an eye.
They are also the same people who might buy an Apple Watch Edition. I'm curious to see how many Apple Watch Edition will sell annually.
Would you call owners of a Ferrari or Rolls-Royce or Apple Watch Edition suckers as well?
The amount of Vertu phones sold has dropped like a rock since the iPhone came out.
A few thousand Vertu phones sold a year is literally a piece of dust in Apple's point of view.
Ferrari/Rolls-Royce buyers are not suckers because those are awesome products that keep their value very well. Vertu phones? Hell no. A Vertu phone from 2010 is worth less than the gold/diamonds on it.
Citation please. Otherwise you are just making that up.
And Vertu is not in competition with Apple just as Rolls-Royce is not in competition with Cadillac.
The article I linked to was from Feb. 2015 which seems recent enough, and it appears they are doing fine within their small niche.
It's fine that you don't like Vertu and hate Android with the burning fury of a thousand suns. But t<span style="line-height:1.4em;">he fact remains plenty of people like their Vertu phones as they do other luxury goods. </span>
Also the fact that something retains its value is not the only measure used that makes something luxurious. If that were true then a Honda Accord could be considered a luxury car since it retains its value so well. If I get a custom pair of shoes made for $5000 they are of virtually no worth to anyone but myself since they are made specifically for my feet. They will not hold their value and yet they are 100% a luxury item.
Shoot, Jeep Wranglers also hold their value. People love them. It's hard trying to find a pre-owned one for sale. They don't last long on a lot.
Just skimming the articles, the wording from Vertu is interesting: sales have grown 9 out of the past ten years. The one year they didn't grow was 2008, for obvious reasons.
That may well mean that sales dropped "like a rock" to 10% in 2008, and have been growing again since, but are still an order of magnitude lower than they were. Or it might not. We don't know.
But wording it in that specific way: how else would you interpret it other than "iPhone hurt us A LOT, but things are slowly getting better again"?
Interesting.
I guess I would interpret it that even the super-rich button up their purses when there is a global financial crisis meltdown like what happened in 2008.
Totally spit-balling here, but I would imagine that anyone who owns a Vertu more than likely also has the latest greatest iPhone as well. I don't believe for a second that the iPhone would erode Vertu sales any more than Cadillac erodes Rolls-Royce sales. It seems like Vertu has a small but dedicated clientele that keeps the lights on.
"Taking Pogliani's estimated average price of £5,000, this translates to around 26,700 annual sales. Vertu says it has sold 400,000 handsets since 2002."
So since 2002 Vertu sold an average of 33,000 phones a year since 2002
They only sold 26,000 in 2014. Their market is shrinking. Why else would Nokia sell them for $300 mil a couple years ago?
"Pogliani explains the typical Signature owner as someone who "wants a simple phone with one week of battery life. They don't want the internet, they just want to call [because] they have people sorting out other things for them; this is a very top elite of people."
Thats sounds like the defintion of a dying market....
IMO, I think Apple is experimenting with the Watch Edition. If it takes off I would not be surprised is Apple starts selling iPhone Edition with real gold casing for $20k. But the market is so small I don't think Apple will even bother doing it.
Seems like Nokia sold Vertu because they were on the ropes financially:
"As Reuters reported yesterday (June 13th), Nokia is selling its Vertu luxury phone business to private equity group EQT. While reports indicated Vertu would sell for €200 million (about $249 million), Nokia hasn't released the price it negotiated, although a press release indicates the company will be holding onto a 10 percent stake in the operation.
The news comes a month and a half after two of the "big three" rating agencies — S&Pand Fitch — downgraded Nokia's credit to "junk" status. The Finnish phone maker has been trying to find a buyer for its premium brand for more than 18 months, according toThe Financial Times. While Nokia doesn't break out financial results for Vertu separately, EQT says the luxury handset maker's 2011 sales were €266 million (about $334 million) . Nokia also announced big organizational changes today, including the closure of manufacturing and R&D facilities, and 10,000 job cuts by the end of the year."
You might be right. Vertu might be dying a slow death. I don't think they are. As long as there are people who want one person to hand-make their phone, and that same person to make every subsequent phone in the future, Vertu will be around.
Regarding the Apple Watch Edition, if it takes off or even does moderately well I do think Apple would do just as you say and come out with an Edition iPhone. Even though the market is small, they are aspirational products. I don't see them making a super huge splash about it. But I would not be surprised if they did it.
It is sort of how a car dealer parks a few really nice cars inside the show room. They don't sell well. A vast majority of the cars they sell are off the lot. But they make for great eye candy. I could see Apple having an Edition iPhone on display at a handful of their most successful stores around the globe. It might almost be like a tourist destination for some people.
Comments
It's enough to prove that I didn't make it up, and many predictions are exaggerated for effect. There were plenty of others. I just didn't bother to copy and paste them.
I was solely talking about here on AI.
Sure. Of course.
Why don't you just admit that you exaggerated too. In the name of getting in your usual anti-Apple dig.
Or perhaps you were trying to be funny, but it just came through as being lame.
I'm guilty of exaggerating at times. I'll admit that, but people did make claims that the Apple Watch would be the downfall of the Swiss watchmakers, some even said the Swiss economy would take a hit just like Finland's has due to the failure of Nokia.
Mr Ed, unfortunately LVMH have revived the dead horse with the injection of a $1,800 competitor.
That said, the Apple watch is disposable and will only convert people looking at entry level swiss watches, not the larger swiss watch market. The economic effects in China which he is quoted about, will also affect the fashion and high end car industries too.
But it is true, the internet was down, not due to curling, but due to a Canadian teams’ world series winning run of a north american cricket game, being played out east.
I'm guilty of exaggerating at times. I'll admit that, but people did make claims that the Apple Watch would be the downfall of the Swiss watchmakers, some even said the Swiss economy would take a hit just like Finland's has due to the failure of Nokia.
It's still too early to judge the impact on the industry and on the country.
I happen to believe that Apple will really take a toll on the $150 - $1500 segment of the market, the segment that it is the most profitable segment for the industry. It is a huge source of employment and export earnings for Switzerland. But it'll take a another two or three years before we know.
However, their pursuing the Android route is not the way to go. It screams "cheap", and is incompatible with the "Crafted in Switzerland" cache they have.
“We were a little bit concerned about the price, because we’re going to sell it at $1,800 … and now we are quite reassured because Apple is telling us we can sell at $1,500 or even more,” (CEO, Jean-Claude Biver) said. “I’m very, very pleased.”
What choice do they have? They don't have the programming chops to build their own proprietary software.
You know all too well that Apple would never do that.
Fortunately I only see these types of posts when others quote them. The "block" feature is an unfortunate but welcome reality to this forum, and people who begin sentences this way are instantly added to mine. Life is too short to wade through the opinions from those who feel this is intellectually acceptable discourse.
Tell that to the folks at Vertu and the folks who buy their phones.
all 5 guys that buy Vertu phones? Sucker born every day.
"Taking Pogliani's estimated average price of £5,000, this translates to around 26,700 annual sales. Vertu says it has sold 400,000 handsets since 2002."
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/inside-vertu-english-luxury-phone-company-closer-rolex-apple-1489291
People do buy Vertu phones, a lot more than 5.
For some perspective, Ferrari says it sold 6,922 cars in 2013. Rolls-Royce sold 4,063 cars in 2014. The people who buy those kinds of vehicles are the same people who can afford a Vertu without batting an eye.
They are also the same people who might buy an Apple Watch Edition. I'm curious to see how many Apple Watch Edition will sell annually.
Would you call owners of a Ferrari or Rolls-Royce or Apple Watch Edition suckers as well?
Buying a $20K Rolex, the movement inside is the same as a $6k Rolex, you are just paying for the 'bling' Gold/Diamonds. The reason these watches hold their value is they increase the price of a new watch a few hundred, so in 5 years the same watch will cost $1k more. I don't see the Gold Apple watch holding the value in the same way.
Apple maintains the price and offers more benefits. But they need to let the watch work in isolation from a phone i.e. with it's own LTE connection and improve the battery life.
From the people I know with Swiss watches, they tried the Apple but it didn't meet their needs, number one issue being battery life.
So because Apple made a deal with Hermes you think they'd make one with Tag? You think Hermes is making $0 from the partnership?
When I think Swiss watch I think IWC, Longines, and
Jaeger-LeCoultre (one of Jony's favorites). If Apple is going to partner with one it'll be with a Jaeger-LeCoultre type, and not with Tag.
"Taking Pogliani's estimated average price of £5,000, this translates to around 26,700 annual sales. Vertu says it has sold 400,000 handsets since 2002."
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/inside-vertu-english-luxury-phone-company-closer-rolex-apple-1489291
People do buy Vertu phones, a lot more than 5.
For some perspective, Ferrari says it sold 6,922 cars in 2013. Rolls-Royce sold 4,063 cars in 2014. The people who buy those kinds of vehicles are the same people who can afford a Vertu without batting an eye.
They are also the same people who might buy an Apple Watch Edition. I'm curious to see how many Apple Watch Edition will sell annually.
Would you call owners of a Ferrari or Rolls-Royce or Apple Watch Edition suckers as well?
The amount of Vertu phones sold has dropped like a rock since the iPhone came out.
A few thousand Vertu phones sold a year is literally a piece of dust in Apple's point of view.
Ferrari/Rolls-Royce buyers are not suckers because those are awesome products that keep their value very well. Vertu phones? Hell no. A Vertu phone from 2010 is worth less than the gold/diamonds on it.
Citation please. Otherwise you are just making that up.
And Vertu is not in competition with Apple just as Rolls-Royce is not in competition with Cadillac.
The article I linked to was from Feb. 2015 which seems recent enough, and it appears they are doing fine within their small niche.
It's fine that you don't like Vertu and hate Android with the burning fury of a thousand suns. But the fact remains plenty of people like their Vertu phones as they do other luxury goods.
Also the fact that something retains its value is not the only measure used that makes something luxurious. If that were true then a Honda Accord could be considered a luxury car since it retains its value so well. If I get a custom pair of shoes made for $5000 they are of virtually no worth to anyone but myself since they are made specifically for my feet. They will not hold their value and yet they are 100% a luxury item.
That may well mean that sales dropped "like a rock" to 10% in 2008, and have been growing again since, but are still an order of magnitude lower than they were. Or it might not. We don't know.
But wording it in that specific way: how else would you interpret it other than "iPhone hurt us A LOT, but things are slowly getting better again"?
Shoot, Jeep Wranglers also hold their value. People love them. It's hard trying to find a pre-owned one for sale. They don't last long on a lot.
Just skimming the articles, the wording from Vertu is interesting: sales have grown 9 out of the past ten years. The one year they didn't grow was 2008, for obvious reasons.
That may well mean that sales dropped "like a rock" to 10% in 2008, and have been growing again since, but are still an order of magnitude lower than they were. Or it might not. We don't know.
But wording it in that specific way: how else would you interpret it other than "iPhone hurt us A LOT, but things are slowly getting better again"?
Interesting.
I guess I would interpret it that even the super-rich button up their purses when there is a global financial crisis meltdown like what happened in 2008.
Totally spit-balling here, but I would imagine that anyone who owns a Vertu more than likely also has the latest greatest iPhone as well. I don't believe for a second that the iPhone would erode Vertu sales any more than Cadillac erodes Rolls-Royce sales. It seems like Vertu has a small but dedicated clientele that keeps the lights on.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/inside-vertu-english-luxury-phone-company-closer-rolex-apple-1489291
"Taking Pogliani's estimated average price of £5,000, this translates to around 26,700 annual sales. Vertu says it has sold 400,000 handsets since 2002."
So since 2002 Vertu sold an average of 33,000 phones a year since 2002
They only sold 26,000 in 2014. Their market is shrinking. Why else would Nokia sell them for $300 mil a couple years ago?
"Pogliani explains the typical Signature owner as someone who "wants a simple phone with one week of battery life. They don't want the internet, they just want to call [because] they have people sorting out other things for them; this is a very top elite of people."
Thats sounds like the defintion of a dying market....
IMO, I think Apple is experimenting with the Watch Edition. If it takes off I would not be surprised is Apple starts selling iPhone Edition with real gold casing for $20k. But the market is so small I don't think Apple will even bother doing it.
Seems like Nokia sold Vertu because they were on the ropes financially:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/14/3084531/nokia-vertu-sale-eqt
"As Reuters reported yesterday (June 13th), Nokia is selling its Vertu luxury phone business to private equity group EQT. While reports indicated Vertu would sell for €200 million (about $249 million), Nokia hasn't released the price it negotiated, although a press release indicates the company will be holding onto a 10 percent stake in the operation.
The news comes a month and a half after two of the "big three" rating agencies — S&Pand Fitch — downgraded Nokia's credit to "junk" status. The Finnish phone maker has been trying to find a buyer for its premium brand for more than 18 months, according toThe Financial Times. While Nokia doesn't break out financial results for Vertu separately, EQT says the luxury handset maker's 2011 sales were €266 million (about $334 million) . Nokia also announced big organizational changes today, including the closure of manufacturing and R&D facilities, and 10,000 job cuts by the end of the year."
You might be right. Vertu might be dying a slow death. I don't think they are. As long as there are people who want one person to hand-make their phone, and that same person to make every subsequent phone in the future, Vertu will be around.
Regarding the Apple Watch Edition, if it takes off or even does moderately well I do think Apple would do just as you say and come out with an Edition iPhone. Even though the market is small, they are aspirational products. I don't see them making a super huge splash about it. But I would not be surprised if they did it.
It is sort of how a car dealer parks a few really nice cars inside the show room. They don't sell well. A vast majority of the cars they sell are off the lot. But they make for great eye candy. I could see Apple having an Edition iPhone on display at a handful of their most successful stores around the globe. It might almost be like a tourist destination for some people.
Shoot, Jeep Wranglers also hold their value. People love them. It's hard trying to find a pre-owned one for sale. They don't last long on a lot.
True story, I used to own a couple of CJ-7's back in the day. The time came for me to sell them so I parked them on the lawn with "for sale" signs.
They literally sat for a few hours when two guys rolled up at the same time and got into a bidding war over them.
Needless to say they were the easiest vehicles to sell that I have ever owned.