Everyone needs a smartphone. Not everyone needs a tablet. That's just the facts. The tablet will never sell as many units as a phone no matter how good it is.
I think the average upgrade cycle for iPad's are at 3-5 years since iPad3. The jump from iPad1-iPad3 was massive and most upgraded.
As you said the 6+ is also canibalizing iPad sales. Which is 100% fine with Apple since the 6+ makes Apple much more profit per unit compared to ipads. That's why I've always felt that once the 6+ came out iPad and iPhone sales should be combined. They are basically the same device but with different sized screens.
The biggest iPad differentiator is the screen format; 4:3 vs 16:9 or 16:10, so if anything, you might want to consider that the iPhone is the same screen format as the laptops/desktops and imagine what that roadmap looks like a few years from now. With the iPad Pro, the paper like screen and pen are big differentiators.
4:3 is preferable for graphics and fine for productivity apps; I say keep iPad's as a separate reporting item.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
You know, if an iPad made and received phone calls and you rarely receive or make calls (that describes me), an iPad alone would be just fine.
One wonders what the iPad market would look like if it had the same voice/data contracts available as iPhones. I would certainly consider an iPad and an Apple Watch as a "good enough" phone. Pretty easy to imagine the same boost for Mac Book's and Mac Book Pro's with LTE on board.
Certainly a vast untapped market should one of the carriers decide to take it on.
And that is why the iPad most likely is not selling in massive quantities like the iPhone that people upgrade every 1-3 years. 2 years is most likely where the majority is. I have an iPad 4th Gen and it does everything I need it to do.
Also, it could be the Plus series of iPhones are big enough to do double duty for some people so no iPad is needed/desired of that group. A lot of factors to consider. How is the market for other tablets doing? Is it a general slow down or just the iPad? I find analysis that is hashed out here usually is better than what the "pros" offer anyway.
I've mentioned before why I think Apple didn't/couldn't upgrade the Air this year.
They have a problem with deciding on how to upgrade it. The major area for an upgrade is the SoC. So what would they do? We've seen tests showing that the A9 has much better core performance, but that the A8x still has better multi core performance.
But, they couldn't go from the A8x to the A9 because of that multicore discrepancy. In general, apps would see an increase in performance, but overall, performance might suffer.
They couldn't go to the A9x, because performance of the Air 3 would then be better than the Pro, with its much higher resolution screen, and that would be a problem.
Next year, I can see them using an A9x for an Air 3, because of the much improved performance it would give, while the Pro 2 would get an A10x, with improved performance. That would rationalize the performance across the line.
I got it from the article above "His supply chain sources indicated the new 12-inch MacBook with Retina display is already Apple's No. 2 most popular product, behind only the 13.3-inch MacBook Pro." But yeah, I haven't seen many in the wild either. Seen massive numbers of Macbook Pros though (as always).
It's still too new to be seeing them in the wild. Even with it selling well, those sales are spread out across a large area, and so they would be few in any one place. I would expect to begin seeing them as time goes on.
"His supply chain sources indicated the new 12-inch MacBook with Retina display is already Apple's No. 2 most popular product, behind only the 13.3-inch MacBook Pro." But yeah, I haven't seen many in the wild either. Seen massive numbers of Macbook Pros though (as always).
Where do you get the idea that the Mac Book is popular, I've yet to see one in the wild. Seriously I'd like to be convinced otherwise but the lack of any sightings leaves me to believe that most people feel the same about Mac Book as I do.
Both of you cannot be for real.
The MacBook Retina might be a hot selling notebook, but the reason you mostly see, say, MacBook Airs "in the wild" is because the MacBook Air design has carried over since 2010. What you see in the wild are 5 years of collective MacBook Air sales vs. a few months of MacBook Retina sales. Similarly, the MBP Retina design carries over from 2012, giving you 3 years of MBPs in the wild.
The surface has a full OS of virus and bugs. Forget it.
iPad has MS office, email, and enough Apps to be more than good enough for 90% of workers.
The surface OS is indeed not immune to viruses, but in number of bugs I could not tell the difference between Windows 10 and iOS.
IPads have indeed the good apps, but in my company we had a test organized by the IT division where 6 employees were having an iPad only and no laptop. The test did not work out that well. The apps or the size of the iPad were not the issue, the absence of decent file management in iOS was a show stopper. The 6 testers needed access to between 500 and 1000 files stored on our internal file servers. There is in iOS no good way to store/cache these files locally on their iPads if these testers got disconnected from the corporate network. Something which a piece of cake on a Surface or Android tablet.
Why should Apple update the iPad Air lineup every year if people only upgrade every 3-5 years?
You need to understand that iPads have incredibly low margins. Apple has to either raise the price of the iPad Air or get cheaper parts. They choose to lengthen the cycle which seems to be the right move. The Air2 is already ridiculously fast.
The Macbook is for light users. Get a Macbook Pro if you want more power. pretty simple. If you didn't notice the trend is to smaller and lighter devices (even laptops).
What would you consider overwhelming demand? I think it will outsell the entire Surface line up. That to me is a success for the iPad Pro.
Apple should have axed the 1st gen iPad Air and reduced the price of the Air 2. I can't imagine they're selling a lot of Air 2s when people know a 3 could probably drop in the spring (and perhaps with Pencil and 3D Touch support).
The surface OS is indeed not immune to viruses, but in number of bugs I could not tell the difference between Windows 10 and iOS.
IPads have indeed the good apps, but in my company we had a test organized by the IT division where 6 employees were having an iPad only and no laptop. The test did not work out that well. The apps or the size of the iPad were not the issue, the absence of decent file management in iOS was a show stopper. The 6 testers needed access to between 500 and 1000 files stored on our internal file servers. There is in iOS no good way to store/cache these files locally on their iPads if these testers got disconnected from the corporate network. Something which a piece of cake on a Surface or Android tablet.
...I've wondered where some long-time frequent commenters have disappeared to over the years.
Easy... The general decline of AI, along with the inept ability of the mods to keep the trolls in the forums in check has a lot to do with it. Too many times the threads turn into one giant cesspool of troll-scum that any attempt at contributing opinions is drowned out. AI just cares about web clicks.
Easy... The general decline of AI, along with the inept ability of the mods to keep the trolls in the forums in check has a lot to do with it. Too many times the threads turn into one giant cesspool of troll-scum that any attempt at contributing opinions is drowned out. AI just cares about web clicks.
I used to frequent MacRumors.
I skip comments now. It's a cesspool.
Mr. Frost seems to have found the new accommodations there to his liking.
I got it from the article above "His supply chain sources indicated the new 12-inch MacBook with Retina display is already Apple's No. 2 most popular product, behind only the 13.3-inch MacBook Pro." But yeah, I haven't seen many in the wild either. Seen massive numbers of Macbook Pros though (as always).
I've seen quite a few Macbooks on trains, planes, busses, etc. The girl beside me on the plane was using one last week, I asked her how she liked it, and she kept gushing about it and thats its her favorite computer ever.
Not a fair comparison to MBPs, as those have been out for many years and have maintained the same design since 2012, compared to a product that's been on the market for a few months, is still priced at a premium level, and available in 1 size.
Last quarter Kuo spewed out some ridiculously high 'guesses' for iPhone sales. When those were not meet the stock tanked 20%.
Now Kuo is spewing low iPhone sales. Why? My guess is so his clients can buy cheap shares.
My prediction is Apple will give STRONG guidance for the Dec Qtr. I think 5-10% revenue growth in guidance.
Kuo is nothing more thna a charlatin. If memory serves he always predicts future products for Apple and when those dates come to pass and nothing gets released he then gives himself a mulligan.
The surface OS is indeed not immune to viruses, but in number of bugs I could not tell the difference between Windows 10 and iOS.
IPads have indeed the good apps, but in my company we had a test organized by the IT division where 6 employees were having an iPad only and no laptop. The test did not work out that well. The apps or the size of the iPad were not the issue, the absence of decent file management in iOS was a show stopper. The 6 testers needed access to between 500 and 1000 files stored on our internal file servers. There is in iOS no good way to store/cache these files locally on their iPads if these testers got disconnected from the corporate network. Something which a piece of cake on a Surface or Android tablet.
Until it gets file manager access and a complete suite of RSAT tools, it's 100% useless to anyone in the IT field.
Right! The worst is over unless people don't buy as many iPad Pro's as he thinks they will. The older iPads are still too doggone good, woof! Definitely will replace mine with another one ... someday. Stoked to think about it! But it might be back to the Future a year or two late.
storing files locally is an easy thing to do on an iPad.
IMO, your IT department simply did not want to convert to iOS devices. Why? Because such a conversion would mean less maintenance hours and probably headcount cuts in the IT dept. I see it all the time.
I don't understand your remark about conversion. Our company is full of iPads. A lot of people have a company paid iPad and a laptop. The test was to see if one could do his work without a laptop, but this was not so easy.
Storing a file locally is not that difficult. But storing and syncing1000 data files locally in a automated managed manner, is on iOS a hard job, much more challenging than on a Surface or an Android tablet. There are some apps like Filer! where one is simulating a file manager, but it requires additional UI actions by the end user, degrading the efficiency. On Android or a Windows 10, these things are all handled transparently by the OS
True I don't work for them, but I'm pretty damn experienced in the IT sector. I have almost literally no clue how an iPad would operate for even the simplest tasks for anyone ranging from the lowly helpdesk to net/server admins. Yes, I know what an iPad is, how to use them and what they can do, it's one of various devices we deploy to and have enterprise software for. It's just for work completely unrelated to IT.
What exactly do IBM use them for? I can see their business potential, just not their usage within the IT world.
I don't understand your remark about conversion. Our company is full of iPads. A lot of people have a company paid iPad and a laptop. The test was to see if one could do his work without a laptop, but this was not so easy.
Storing a file locally is not that difficult. But storing and syncing1000 data files locally in a automated managed manner, is on iOS a hard job, much more challenging than on a Surface or an Android tablet. There are some apps like Filer! where one is simulating a file manager, but it requires additional UI actions by the end user, degrading the efficiency. On Android or a Windows 10, these things are all handled transparently by the OS
Many companies (including ours) have come to the realization that the maintenance costs associated with the internal infrastructure required to share files is much higher than using a secure external hosting solution. Not to mention the fact that most external solutions will also provide ways to access your files easily and securely from any device. If your IT department isn't at least evaluating such options, I'd question their level of expertise and motives.
Many companies (including ours) have come to the realization that the maintenance costs associated with the internal infrastructure required to share files is much higher than using a secure external hosting solution. Not to mention the fact that most external solutions will also provide ways to access your files easily and securely from any device. If your IT department isn't at least evaluating such options, I'd question their level of expertise and motives.
We are investigating such a solution, but currently there are a lot of constraints. Two tailor made apps on our internal Sun servers don't have (yet) a version for Linux: an external solution for these apps is not trivial and not cheap. Security is a big concern in our IT department. Can the hosting company accept regular external security audits? What if an employee of the hosting company moves to one of our competitors? We do business with the government, who demands that all data related to their business does not leave the country, so no Dropbox, Google Drive, iCloud, Skydrive, ...
Both Google and Amazon up 10%+ after hours, Microsoft up over 5%. No doubt next week Apple will beat but Wall Street will find something wrong and send the stock down 5%.
Comments
Everyone needs a smartphone. Not everyone needs a tablet. That's just the facts. The tablet will never sell as many units as a phone no matter how good it is.
I think the average upgrade cycle for iPad's are at 3-5 years since iPad3. The jump from iPad1-iPad3 was massive and most upgraded.
As you said the 6+ is also canibalizing iPad sales. Which is 100% fine with Apple since the 6+ makes Apple much more profit per unit compared to ipads. That's why I've always felt that once the 6+ came out iPad and iPhone sales should be combined. They are basically the same device but with different sized screens.
The biggest iPad differentiator is the screen format; 4:3 vs 16:9 or 16:10, so if anything, you might want to consider that the iPhone is the same screen format as the laptops/desktops and imagine what that roadmap looks like a few years from now. With the iPad Pro, the paper like screen and pen are big differentiators.
4:3 is preferable for graphics and fine for productivity apps; I say keep iPad's as a separate reporting item.
You know, if an iPad made and received phone calls and you rarely receive or make calls (that describes me), an iPad alone would be just fine.
One wonders what the iPad market would look like if it had the same voice/data contracts available as iPhones. I would certainly consider an iPad and an Apple Watch as a "good enough" phone. Pretty easy to imagine the same boost for Mac Book's and Mac Book Pro's with LTE on board.
Certainly a vast untapped market should one of the carriers decide to take it on.
I've mentioned before why I think Apple didn't/couldn't upgrade the Air this year.
They have a problem with deciding on how to upgrade it. The major area for an upgrade is the SoC. So what would they do? We've seen tests showing that the A9 has much better core performance, but that the A8x still has better multi core performance.
But, they couldn't go from the A8x to the A9 because of that multicore discrepancy. In general, apps would see an increase in performance, but overall, performance might suffer.
They couldn't go to the A9x, because performance of the Air 3 would then be better than the Pro, with its much higher resolution screen, and that would be a problem.
Next year, I can see them using an A9x for an Air 3, because of the much improved performance it would give, while the Pro 2 would get an A10x, with improved performance. That would rationalize the performance across the line.
It's still too new to be seeing them in the wild. Even with it selling well, those sales are spread out across a large area, and so they would be few in any one place. I would expect to begin seeing them as time goes on.
Both of you cannot be for real.
The MacBook Retina might be a hot selling notebook, but the reason you mostly see, say, MacBook Airs "in the wild" is because the MacBook Air design has carried over since 2010. What you see in the wild are 5 years of collective MacBook Air sales vs. a few months of MacBook Retina sales. Similarly, the MBP Retina design carries over from 2012, giving you 3 years of MBPs in the wild.
The surface has a full OS of virus and bugs. Forget it.
iPad has MS office, email, and enough Apps to be more than good enough for 90% of workers.
The surface OS is indeed not immune to viruses, but in number of bugs I could not tell the difference between Windows 10 and iOS.
IPads have indeed the good apps, but in my company we had a test organized by the IT division where 6 employees were having an iPad only and no laptop. The test did not work out that well. The apps or the size of the iPad were not the issue, the absence of decent file management in iOS was a show stopper. The 6 testers needed access to between 500 and 1000 files stored on our internal file servers. There is in iOS no good way to store/cache these files locally on their iPads if these testers got disconnected from the corporate network. Something which a piece of cake on a Surface or Android tablet.
Apple should have axed the 1st gen iPad Air and reduced the price of the Air 2. I can't imagine they're selling a lot of Air 2s when people know a 3 could probably drop in the spring (and perhaps with Pencil and 3D Touch support).
The surface OS is indeed not immune to viruses, but in number of bugs I could not tell the difference between Windows 10 and iOS.
IPads have indeed the good apps, but in my company we had a test organized by the IT division where 6 employees were having an iPad only and no laptop. The test did not work out that well. The apps or the size of the iPad were not the issue, the absence of decent file management in iOS was a show stopper. The 6 testers needed access to between 500 and 1000 files stored on our internal file servers. There is in iOS no good way to store/cache these files locally on their iPads if these testers got disconnected from the corporate network. Something which a piece of cake on a Surface or Android tablet.
http://appadvice.com/appguides/show/download-apps-for-the-ipad
Perhaps IT isn't really that interested in figuring it out, nor is your corporation interested in developing enterprise apps to do the same.
Not saying the linked solutions are the proper ones, just that IT has skin in the game, and it isn't for iPad's.
Easy... The general decline of AI, along with the inept ability of the mods to keep the trolls in the forums in check has a lot to do with it. Too many times the threads turn into one giant cesspool of troll-scum that any attempt at contributing opinions is drowned out. AI just cares about web clicks.
Easy... The general decline of AI, along with the inept ability of the mods to keep the trolls in the forums in check has a lot to do with it. Too many times the threads turn into one giant cesspool of troll-scum that any attempt at contributing opinions is drowned out. AI just cares about web clicks.
I used to frequent MacRumors.
I skip comments now. It's a cesspool.
Mr. Frost seems to have found the new accommodations there to his liking.
I got it from the article above "His supply chain sources indicated the new 12-inch MacBook with Retina display is already Apple's No. 2 most popular product, behind only the 13.3-inch MacBook Pro." But yeah, I haven't seen many in the wild either. Seen massive numbers of Macbook Pros though (as always).
I've seen quite a few Macbooks on trains, planes, busses, etc. The girl beside me on the plane was using one last week, I asked her how she liked it, and she kept gushing about it and thats its her favorite computer ever.
Not a fair comparison to MBPs, as those have been out for many years and have maintained the same design since 2012, compared to a product that's been on the market for a few months, is still priced at a premium level, and available in 1 size.
The surface OS is indeed not immune to viruses, but in number of bugs I could not tell the difference between Windows 10 and iOS.
IPads have indeed the good apps, but in my company we had a test organized by the IT division where 6 employees were having an iPad only and no laptop. The test did not work out that well. The apps or the size of the iPad were not the issue, the absence of decent file management in iOS was a show stopper. The 6 testers needed access to between 500 and 1000 files stored on our internal file servers. There is in iOS no good way to store/cache these files locally on their iPads if these testers got disconnected from the corporate network. Something which a piece of cake on a Surface or Android tablet.
Until it gets file manager access and a complete suite of RSAT tools, it's 100% useless to anyone in the IT field.
storing files locally is an easy thing to do on an iPad.
IMO, your IT department simply did not want to convert to iOS devices. Why? Because such a conversion would mean less maintenance hours and probably headcount cuts in the IT dept. I see it all the time.
I don't understand your remark about conversion. Our company is full of iPads. A lot of people have a company paid iPad and a laptop. The test was to see if one could do his work without a laptop, but this was not so easy.
Storing a file locally is not that difficult. But storing and syncing1000 data files locally in a automated managed manner, is on iOS a hard job, much more challenging than on a Surface or an Android tablet. There are some apps like Filer! where one is simulating a file manager, but it requires additional UI actions by the end user, degrading the efficiency. On Android or a Windows 10, these things are all handled transparently by the OS
Until it gets file manager access and a complete suite of RSAT tools, it's 100% useless to anyone in the IT field.
Tell that to IBM
Tell that to IBM
True I don't work for them, but I'm pretty damn experienced in the IT sector. I have almost literally no clue how an iPad would operate for even the simplest tasks for anyone ranging from the lowly helpdesk to net/server admins. Yes, I know what an iPad is, how to use them and what they can do, it's one of various devices we deploy to and have enterprise software for. It's just for work completely unrelated to IT.
What exactly do IBM use them for? I can see their business potential, just not their usage within the IT world.
I don't understand your remark about conversion. Our company is full of iPads. A lot of people have a company paid iPad and a laptop. The test was to see if one could do his work without a laptop, but this was not so easy.
Storing a file locally is not that difficult. But storing and syncing1000 data files locally in a automated managed manner, is on iOS a hard job, much more challenging than on a Surface or an Android tablet. There are some apps like Filer! where one is simulating a file manager, but it requires additional UI actions by the end user, degrading the efficiency. On Android or a Windows 10, these things are all handled transparently by the OS
Many companies (including ours) have come to the realization that the maintenance costs associated with the internal infrastructure required to share files is much higher than using a secure external hosting solution. Not to mention the fact that most external solutions will also provide ways to access your files easily and securely from any device. If your IT department isn't at least evaluating such options, I'd question their level of expertise and motives.
Many companies (including ours) have come to the realization that the maintenance costs associated with the internal infrastructure required to share files is much higher than using a secure external hosting solution. Not to mention the fact that most external solutions will also provide ways to access your files easily and securely from any device. If your IT department isn't at least evaluating such options, I'd question their level of expertise and motives.
We are investigating such a solution, but currently there are a lot of constraints. Two tailor made apps on our internal Sun servers don't have (yet) a version for Linux: an external solution for these apps is not trivial and not cheap. Security is a big concern in our IT department. Can the hosting company accept regular external security audits? What if an employee of the hosting company moves to one of our competitors? We do business with the government, who demands that all data related to their business does not leave the country, so no Dropbox, Google Drive, iCloud, Skydrive, ...