How do I convince a PC user to get a Mac?

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  • Reply 21 of 37
    stevesteve Posts: 523member
    [quote]Originally posted by Mac Voyer:

    <strong>It is Deer Stags? job to advertise and educate and dispel myths about their product. What I don?t understand is what compels Mac users to take on this responsibility for themselves. I am not alone in this.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Perhaps because if the Deer Stags platform isn't dwindling, third parties won't pull their support for laces, etc.



    You can compare something like operating systems / computing platforms and shows. Especially in a scenario in which a relatively small company that's always coming out with innovative features, is desperate to stay afloat, going up against a multi-billion dollar software giant. If we don't take matters into our own hands and attempt to make guarantees on the survival of this platform (which is arguably only obtainable by increasing marketshare), who will? Ellen Feiss?
  • Reply 22 of 37
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    [quote]Originally posted by Mac Voyer:

    <strong>I appreciate your response, but it doesn?t really get at the heart of my confusion. In religion, there is a compelling reason to try and convert as many as possible. If you believe that souls will be lost, or that God has ordered you to do so, then by all means, contend for your faith. When it comes to computers, what?s the point? </strong><hr></blockquote>



    The point is that there is not necessarily a religious impetus to it at all. Personal computers in general - and yes, I'm including Macs here, too - are generally complex, unreliable, and diverse enough that the choice of platform and the choice of hardware can make a very significant difference to a person. The choice should be made as rationally as possible. There's a lot of irrationality surrounding the Mac. Most of the shrill Mac evangelism that made me cringe is gone now that Apple is doing better, but there's still a lot of fog on the PC side. And it's preventing some people from spending their hard-earned money on a machine that might be better for them.



    I don't preach the Mac from street corners. If someone asks me for advice, I give it. If someone asks me why I use a Mac (often incredulously, because I'm a computer programmer, so apparently I'm supposed to hate them), I tell them.



    [quote]<strong>So what if some people believe that Macs suck. There are those who think my computer sucks. But I don?t care. Why do care what people think about the Mac, or Apple in general? You said something about proving it to be a viable option. Why? Are you a sales person for Apple? It is not your job to show the Mac to be a viable option. It is not your job to educate the public about the virtues of the Mac platform. What do you stand to gain if a person buys a Mac? What do you stand to lose if they buy a PC?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    So now, all of a sudden, you don't care about zealotry?



    By this logic, no one would tell anyone about anything. But I've had the praises of everything from shoes to musical groups to microphones sung to me at various points throughout my life. It's a basic fact of human nature that if something works for you, you tell people about it. Marketing is just an attempt to direct and control that basic urge. I don't recommend Macs out of any sense of loyalty to Apple. I do it when I'm asked to recommend a computer, and when I genuinely believe that Apple offers the best machine.



    To turn your question around: If you know something well, why are you content to let people you know spend thousands of dollars out of ignorance? I don't say "MACZ R GUD! PCZ DROOL!" There are things that they're better at. On a different note, if they expect me to help them, they're better off with a Mac. I know more than I have any reason to about troubleshooting PCs, but I tend to foist that noisome task off on professionals. Macs, I know, and what I don't know I have the documentation for.



    In the case under discussion here, we have a person going into graphic design. Why wouldn't you recommend a Mac in that instance? They're better for graphic design. That's not an article of faith, it's a simple fact. Over the years, they've become specialized for that task, and they've accumulated a host of applications and technologies that make them better for that purpose.



    [quote]<strong>I love Deer Stags shoes. They are the most comfortable shoes I have ever owned. I would buy them even if they were more expensive. I wish everyone knew about them and felt the same as I do about them. But they don?t. And I don?t care. If a person asks me for shoe buying advice, I will gladly give it. I might even give even if they don?t ask. But that is as far as it goes.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Shoes are one thing. Personal computers are another. Partly because of the cost, partly because of the complexity, and partly because of the zealotry surrounding all the options. I've never heard any FUD about that brand of shoes, or any brand of shoes for that matter.



    [quote]<strong>It is Deer Stags? job to advertise and educate and dispel myths about their product. What I don?t understand is what compels Mac users to take on this responsibility for themselves. I am not alone in this. Many people are turned off by this behavior. Help me see this from your perspective.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    What myths are there around their product?



    If someone told you that you couldn't walk on the same sidewalks as everyone else if you bought them, you'd leave it to Deer Stag to say otherwise?



    Besides, people trust word of mouth more than corporate advertizing. Apple saying their products are good is a given - what else are they going to say? My saying their products are good is different: I'm not beholden to them, and I'm not reluctant to point out what I think they're not good at.



    For what it's worth, I don't always recommend Macs. If I feel they're the better machine for the job - and many times they are - then I recommend them. And then only if someone asks, or if someone (like my boss, recently) expresses frustration about Windows and asks why there aren't any alternatives. He found out recently that Macs run Microsoft Word (I told him), and he's a smart guy and a veteran computer programmer and sysadmin.



    [ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
  • Reply 23 of 37
    if she's majoring in graphic design. Mac is the way to go. i've never seen a PC used in an ad angency or graphic design firm and i've seen a lot of them.



    and like someone said, i suspect the graphic desgin department at school use Macs, that should say something
  • Reply 24 of 37
    If she dose want a PC, don't let her get a Compaq. They are some of the worst computers ever made (Packard Bell being the worst). I know Compaq's are made my HP now, but they still can't be that good. I CAN'T BELEIVE ANY ONE WOULD LIKE A COMPAQ. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
  • Reply 25 of 37
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    She'll get what she wants. If she has a Compaq at home and she likes it, more power to her. It's not my deal, it's hers.



    The impressions I've been getting from posters to this thread are that I could suggest that she may want to try a Mac, but it's her decision. I fully agree with that. I'm not going to see any difference in my life if she gets one or the other. In fact, things will probably be better if she gets the PC, because she'll be more comfortable with it and she won't blame me if she has problems.
  • Reply 26 of 37
    [quote]Originally posted by Mac Voyer:

    <strong>No product is worthy of that brand of zealotry... except, or course... for my Microwave by Sharp! A PRODUCT WHICH HAS NO EQUAL AND THE WHOLE WORLD SHOULD BE USING. LONG LIVE SHARP!!! </strong><hr></blockquote>



    I realize you were just joking, but... well... I happen to have a Sharp microwave and it is a HUGE PILE OF CRAP.



    I just wanted to be sure both sides of this debate were equally represented.
  • Reply 27 of 37
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    Today she told me what she got. A Compaq. But not the one she was first looking at. This one has a Pentium 4 (yuck), but it's still faster than the previous one she considered, and it has more RAM and hard drive space, etc. It also has a 17" LCD. So I think she'll really like it.



    Again, probably not the best computer for graphic design, but an eMac wouldn't be much better. She's not even taking any graphic design courses this semester. By the time she needs a computer specifically for working in graphic design, she will have probably learned a lot more about Macs through using them in class, and she'll probably want to get a PowerMac. eMacs are great for web and email and Otto Matic, but not for really heavy photoshop work.
  • Reply 28 of 37
    [quote]Originally posted by spotbug:

    <strong>



    I realize you were just joking, but... well... I happen to have a Sharp microwave and it is a HUGE PILE OF CRAP.



    I just wanted to be sure both sides of this debate were equally represented. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Now look here mister. You?ve really got me riled now! You can vandalize my house, eat my lunch, insult my wife, kick my dog, and berate me for being a worthless PC user. BUT YOU HAD BETTER NOT SAY A WORD AGAINST MY MICROWAVE OVEN FROM SHARP! FOOL!!!
  • Reply 29 of 37
    [quote]Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:

    <strong>Today she told me what she got. A Compaq. But not the one she was first looking at. This one has a Pentium 4 (yuck), but it's still faster than the previous one she considered, and it has more RAM and hard drive space, etc. It also has a 17" LCD. So I think she'll really like it.



    Again, probably not the best computer for graphic design, but an eMac wouldn't be much better. She's not even taking any graphic design courses this semester. By the time she needs a computer specifically for working in graphic design, she will have probably learned a lot more about Macs through using them in class, and she'll probably want to get a PowerMac. eMacs are great for web and email and Otto Matic, but not for really heavy photoshop work.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    :eek: she made a big boo boo. seriously though, i doubt the graphic design department use PeeCee's
  • Reply 30 of 37
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    Did you notice how I said she doesn't have any graphic design courses yet? That's right, none. Maybe you should re-read my post. It looks like you read the first couple sentences and then replied.



    To reiterate, by the time she does *need* a Mac to do classwork (not when it's handy to have one, but when she really does have to have one), the eMac won't be good enough anyway.



    Anyway, no offense to you, it just didn't look like you got the point of my response.
  • Reply 31 of 37
    mcqmcq Posts: 1,543member
    Just out of curiosity, how did she spend only $1200 on a computer with a 17" LCD? The P4 isn't that bad, I'm imagining it's at least 2 GHz which is plenty fast for graphics. Hopefully that 17" LCD is a decent quality one, there's some pretty crappy ones out there.
  • Reply 32 of 37
    [quote]Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:

    <strong>Did you notice how I said she doesn't have any graphic design courses yet? That's right, none. Maybe you should re-read my post. It looks like you read the first couple sentences and then replied.



    To reiterate, by the time she does *need* a Mac to do classwork (not when it's handy to have one, but when she really does have to have one), the eMac won't be good enough anyway.



    Anyway, no offense to you, it just didn't look like you got the point of my response.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    no i read it. i knew she wasn't taking any graphic design courses yet, but when she does, i suspect she'll be sorry
  • Reply 33 of 37
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    [quote]Originally posted by MCQ:

    <strong>Just out of curiosity, how did she spend only $1200 on a computer with a 17" LCD? The P4 isn't that bad, I'm imagining it's at least 2 GHz which is plenty fast for graphics. Hopefully that 17" LCD is a decent quality one, there's some pretty crappy ones out there.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Actually she spend $1350. Apparently she got some help from her grandparents who were willing to send her some money, so she could afford a bit more. The computer is 2 GHz with pretty standard configurations for middle-end PCs (DVD-ROM + CD-RW, 512MB DDR, 80GB HD, 17" CRT). There was an option to upgrade the CRT to an LCD for $150, so she took it. The LCD coming with it normally sells for $600, which is about standard nowadays for 17" analog LCDs.



    Since it was an upgrade from the company that sold the computer, the LCD is also a Compaq.
  • Reply 34 of 37
    Well, I read this whole thread and all...



    Hope she enjoys the new Compaq. I hope you reminded her that if she does take courses in graphic design and the computers are Macs she'll have to get 3rd party software and copies of the applications to do any homework. Seems though she's not to serious about graphic design anyway (she bought a Windows PC).



    That's why I always will stay with Macs...I know if I bring files from any Windows computer from work...I can read the disc, open them, edit them and save them.



    Oh, and if she calls with any problem with her Compaq...tell her you only know Macs and get her gaming friend to help her...



    Plink, plink.
  • Reply 35 of 37
    emaneman Posts: 7,204member
    [quote]Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:

    <strong>

    To reiterate, by the time she does *need* a Mac to do classwork (not when it's handy to have one, but when she really does have to have one), the eMac won't be good enough anyway.



    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Why won't the eMac be good enough? I would think a Mac would be better than a PC with graphics and a 700MHz G4 isn't bad.
  • Reply 36 of 37
    An eMac should be fine for PS work, since it has altivec.



    This brings up a serious problem for Apple. While many people consider Macs, they balk at the price. People just don't understand that when you buy a computer, you're not really buying the hardware, but the experience. Also, Apple has a bad reputation because of the Mac OS days. So many people have told me they hate macs, and it's always because they remember using OS 8 and how unstable it was.
  • Reply 37 of 37
    I've spent the last few years being pro-PC, and it's strange now owning my first Mac. I thought it was going to be the motherland, and in a lot of ways it is. But you guys can't go around disregarding PC's, I mean I know your not disregarding them exactly, but saying how you won't be able to open up any files and that sort of thing. I mean come on, if it's a program's file it won't matter as long as the extension is the same. Like take a Macromedia Flash file, like .fla, my PC reads it and I can go back and forth from Mac MX to PC MX, there really isn't a big deal. In fact I have to do that for my web design classes using Mac MX and then opening it up in W2K at school.



    The computer she got was a far better deal than the comparable Mac, and she will be able to use it much better with a lot of ease because she's already familiar with it. Granted it may have typical PC problems (especially since it is a Compaq and any PC from a large manufacturer like Compaq or HP or Gateway is full of junk and add ons that just decay the OS, not to mension the price advantage of PC's) but it will be just fine. It's faster, has better internals, and is the same price as the Mac. Ironically the specs are almost the same as my brand new dual 1Ghz G4 Powermac, and I paid just over $2,000, WITH MY DEVELOPER DISCOUNT.



    Anyway, it's frustrating to watch everyone here just rant about how bad PC's are, they are really great, they just have a terrible OS as of yet. That, and Mac has much much higher perfecting standards and innovations. I didn't mean to offend anyone so I'm sorry if I did, but I just wanted to point that out, especially since Mac's are not perfect, even though we would like to think so.



    -CFPC
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