Apple's $59M Australian tax bill in the spotlight as international tax row continues

Posted:
in AAPL Investors
Apple Australia recorded a gross tax rate of slightly more than 1 percent in 2015, Australian government records indicate, focusing attention once again on the iPhone maker's international tax strategy.


Apple Store on George St. in Sydney


Apple sent just AU$85 million ($59 million) to Australian government coffers last year after recording revenues of AU$7.9 billion, according to the Sydney Morning Herald. Apple Australia reported an after-tax profit of AU$123 million, a AU$51.5 million year-over-year decline.

The iPhone maker -- along with a number of other major multinational firms -- has come under fire from governments around the world in recent years over its tax avoidance strategies. Using legal loopholes and complex arrangements of foreign affiliates, companies like Apple and Google can achieve effective tax rates far lower than the statutory rates.

Last year, Apple warned investors that one ongoing investigation into the company's tax arrangements with the Irish government could lead to a penalty which would have a "material" impact on Apple's bottom line.

Down under, Apple, Google, and other foreign tech firms are facing a legislative backlash over their tax policies. The Australian Tax Office has begun more aggressive audits, currently focusing on Apple's 2012 accounts.

"The Australian Taxation Office is currently auditing the company's tax position for 2012," Apple's most recent filing read. "As at the date of this report, the outcome of the tax audit cannot be predicted with certainty and reliably estimated, no adjustments have been recognised in the financial statements."

An Apple spokesperson told the Herald that "Apple Australia pays all taxes it owes in accordance with Australian law."
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 50
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    That's 'taking the piss'.

    I propose that where a company declares income greater than AU$100 M on finished manufactured goods and their profit to be less than 25% of that income, just tax them at 20% of income.
  • Reply 2 of 50
    williamhwilliamh Posts: 1,045member
    Apple Australia recorded a gross tax rate of slightly more than 1 percent in 2015, Australian government records indicate, focusing attention once again on the iPhone maker's international tax strategy.

    Apple sent just AU$85 million ($59 million) to Australian government coffers last year after recording revenues of AU$7.9 billion, according to the Sydney Morning Herald. Apple Australia reported an after-tax profit of AU$123 million, a AU$51.5 million year-over-year decline.

    Corporate taxes are not calculated on gross revenue. $85 million is more than 1% of $208 million.
    edited January 2016 icoco3latifbpwetlander
  • Reply 3 of 50
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    williamh said:

    cnocbui said:
    That's 'taking the piss'.

    I propose that where a company declares income greater than AU$100 M on finished manufactured goods and their profit to be less than 25% of that income, just tax them at 20% of income.
    I guess you just want higher prices and fewer choices, right?  You are proposing that Australia levy a tax that is higher than a company's profit or else mandate that the profit margin be greater than 25%?  Does that really make sense to you?
    When they are clearly lying about their profit - you betcha.
    ronn
  • Reply 4 of 50
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,622member
    williamh said:
    Apple Australia recorded a gross tax rate of slightly more than 1 percent in 2015, Australian government records indicate, focusing attention once again on the iPhone maker's international tax strategy.

    Apple sent just AU$85 million ($59 million) to Australian government coffers last year after recording revenues of AU$7.9 billion, according to the Sydney Morning Herald. Apple Australia reported an after-tax profit of AU$123 million, a AU$51.5 million year-over-year decline.

    Corporate taxes are not calculated on gross revenue. $85 million is more than 1% of $208 million.
    Curious if you think it's realistic for Apple to have a relatively piddling profit on the nearly AUS$8B in 2015 revenues without some really creative revenue shifting and transfer pricing? I'm sure you're not surprised the Aussies might think something's not right, and in any case it seems at odds with Mr Cook's claim they Apple doesn't make use of tax havens and accounting tricks. 

    "We don't use tax gimmicks," Cook said. "We pay all the taxes we owe, every single dollar. We don't just comply with the law, we comply with the spirit of the law."
    edited January 2016 cnocbuironn
  • Reply 5 of 50
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,298member
    Fine, the Australian Tax Office is doing an audit. I doubt Apple knowingly broke any tax laws but I can guarantee they used every tax law to their benefit and to the benefit of their stock holders. (See other forums about Apple's fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders to pay as little tax as legally required.) I'm sure Australia's tax laws are as mixed up and stupid as everyone else's so when the audit is done and after Apple appeals, we might find out how bad of a job Australia did in writing their tax laws. This is an embarrassment for the country and they'll attempt to cover up as many mistakes as they can, just like in the EU and the US. Australia, just like Ireland, wants a huge company like Apple to be in their country so they gave them special concessions, just like every state in the US does, to get them to come and build their. Why do you think companies build in Nevada? It's not for the scenery, it's because the of taxes. Why did Apple build a huge data center in North Carolina? Because they were given all sorts of tax concessions. Historically, this was called greasing the wheels and included bribes and other payments to get politicians to give them the breaks. Now, these large companies only have to promise to bring jobs to the area and politicians will give them the key to the city as well as low taxes and other concessions. This is happening all over the world and is the way business is done. Why is it such a big deal? Oh wait, I forgot about that magic word--greed.
    icoco3latifbp
  • Reply 6 of 50
    They're coming for individuals soon enough. 
    icoco3
  • Reply 7 of 50
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    They're coming for individuals soon enough. 
    "How much did you make?"
    "Send it in."
  • Reply 8 of 50
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,622member
    sog35 said:
    williamh said:
    Apple Australia recorded a gross tax rate of slightly more than 1 percent in 2015, Australian government records indicate, focusing attention once again on the iPhone maker's international tax strategy.

    Apple sent just AU$85 million ($59 million) to Australian government coffers last year after recording revenues of AU$7.9 billion, according to the Sydney Morning Herald. Apple Australia reported an after-tax profit of AU$123 million, a AU$51.5 million year-over-year decline.

    Corporate taxes are not calculated on gross revenue. $85 million is more than 1% of $208 million.
    Apple pays 40% taxes on PROFITS in Austrailia

    Profits before tax = $208 million
    Taxes = $85 million
    Tax rate = 40%

    So stupid that this article bases tax rate on gross revenue.
    Hardly sounds worth doing business in Australia. Less than a 3% profit margin? I thought Apple's margins were a lot higher than that. Who knew. 
    edited January 2016 cnocbuironn
  • Reply 9 of 50
    sog35 said:

    cnocbui said:
    When they are clearly lying about their profit - you betcha.
    Give me a friken break. 
    The profit calculation is based on Australian tax law. Go fix the tax law if its broken.  But don't be blaming Apple for following the law and taking advantage of it.
    It's also funny how people think 'paying taxes' is somehow taking advantage of the law.  Paying any tax is a penalty, never an 'advantage'.

    All this nonsense stems from class bigotry, the most prevalent form of bigotry in the 21st century.  Funny how it's condoned by a lot of the same people beating the bigotry drum at every other opportunity.  


    latifbp
  • Reply 10 of 50
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    sog35 said:

    cnocbui said:
    When they are clearly lying about their profit - you betcha.
    Give me a friken break. 
    The profit calculation is based on Australian tax law. Go fix the tax law if its broken.  But don't be blaming Apple for following the law and taking advantage of it.
    Lying often isn't illegal. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be criticized and reported on.
    cnocbuironn
  • Reply 11 of 50
    sog35 said:
    williamh said:
    Corporate taxes are not calculated on gross revenue. $85 million is more than 1% of $208 million.
    Apple pays 40% taxes on PROFITS in Austrailia

    Profits before tax = $208 million
    Taxes = $85 million
    Tax rate = 40%

    So stupid that this article bases tax rate on gross revenue.

    Christ almighty, do you people have no appreciation for context? They didn't even TRY to make it seem like that was the effective tax rate; in fact, it's clearly labeled "gross tax rate." God forbid they try to inject some semblance of scale so that people who are used to counting their money in the 100s can understand what $60 million really means. 
    edited January 2016 ronn
  • Reply 12 of 50
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    sog35 said:

    cnocbui said:
    When they are clearly lying about their profit - you betcha.
    Give me a friken break. 
    The profit calculation is based on Australian tax law. Go fix the tax law if its broken.  But don't be blaming Apple for following the law and taking advantage of it.
    No, you give me a 'friken break'. The profit is based on 'we made up (inflated) the value of the IP our Irish subsidiary bought from the US and poured into each and every item by virgins using  Unicorn horns as  funnels, so as to make it look like they cost a shit load more to make than they actually did'

    I made a simple proposal of a fix for the tax law which is so broken they might as well say, stuff it, don't pay any tax at all.
    edited January 2016 latifbpronn
  • Reply 13 of 50
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    So once again we have opposing sides here in the wealth redistribution argument. The way I see it is that Apple’s lawyers and accountants are smarter than the Australian government’s lawyers and accountants. The tax structures of most developed countries are convoluted political compromises with intentional loopholes put there by politicians of various ideological persuasions to assuage the demands of their constituents.

    This is a witch hunt by corrupt politicians who see yet another way to line their pockets under the guise of righteous indignation, both on the left and on the right. All governments are corrupt at their core. So are corporations. This is a pissing contest between billionaires and the public won’t see any benefits either way the fight ends, accept for maybe higher iPhone prices.
    edited January 2016 latifbpwetlander
  • Reply 14 of 50
    xbitxbit Posts: 399member
    They're coming for individuals soon enough. 
    I don't know about you but I pay my taxes without resorting to loop holes and dodgy offshore profit-funnelling schemes. 
  • Reply 15 of 50
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member

    sog35 said:

    Give me a friken break. 
    The profit calculation is based on Australian tax law. Go fix the tax law if its broken.  But don't be blaming Apple for following the law and taking advantage of it.
    Lying often isn't illegal. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be criticized and reported on.
    It is if you pay taxes on the basis of the "lies". OTOH when you follow the definitions and determinations as laid out IN the tax law then you're not actually "lying", simply obeying the rules as written, even when written different than other tax laws elsewhere.
    edited January 2016 latifbp
  • Reply 16 of 50
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    redefiler said:
    sog35 said:

    Give me a friken break. 
    The profit calculation is based on Australian tax law. Go fix the tax law if its broken.  But don't be blaming Apple for following the law and taking advantage of it.
    It's also funny how people think 'paying taxes' is somehow taking advantage of the law.  Paying any tax is a penalty, never an 'advantage'.

    All this nonsense stems from class bigotry, the most prevalent form of bigotry in the 21st century.  Funny how it's condoned by a lot of the same people beating the bigotry drum at every other opportunity.  


    Tax is not a penalty, it's an obligation to be paid for living in a more or less civilised society.
  • Reply 17 of 50
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    xbit said:
    They're coming for individuals soon enough. 
    I don't know about you but I pay my taxes without resorting to loop holes and dodgy offshore profit-funnelling schemes. 
    Yup, we all pay what we owe and so does Apple.
    mwhite
  • Reply 18 of 50
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    jfc1138 said:

    It is if you pay taxes on the basis of the "lies". OTOH when you follow the definitions and determinations as laid out IN the tax law then you're not actually "lying", simply obeying the rules as written, even when written different than other tax laws elsewhere.
    That's a generous assessment of what is happening. Loopholes in the law are usually not about what it codified, but what isn't. Apple are lying because they are saying that profit is a number that it clearly isn't, and that is legally admissible because they have internally transferred revenue to subsidiaries. That is untrue economic activity, designed for tax avoidance. That it is often seen as legal does not make it any less a lie. 
    cnocbui
  • Reply 19 of 50
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    sog35 said:
    crowley said:
    Lying often isn't illegal. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be criticized and reported on.
    Show me proof that Apple 'lied' on their taxes. Show me.  If not STFU.
    Apple's profit numbers in Australia are a lie, that is evident.
    sog35 said:

    And lying IS ILLEGAL for taxes. Go try lying on your personal tax return this year? Lets see what happens.
    There are plenty of admissible lies. Deferring income to another tax season is a lie, but one that is accepted in certain circumstances.
    sog35 said:

    Apple is 100% following THE LAW of Australia.
    If the law is messed up then the politicians need to change the law. But they won't.  You know why? Because these same politicians who are witch hunting Apple are using the same tax loopholes for their businesses and the businesses that fund their political campaigns.
    Australia has some very strict transfer pricing laws, so are you sure that Apple did nothing illegal?  Your tone suggests to me that you're taking an emotive stance on this rather than an informed one. 
    edited January 2016 singularitycnocbui
  • Reply 20 of 50
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    sog35 said:
    cnocbui said:
    No, you give me a 'friken break'. The profit is based on 'we made up (inflated) the value of the IP our Irish subsidiary bought from the US and poured into each and every item by virgins using  Unicorn horns as  funnels, so as to make it look like they cost a shit load more to make than they actually did'

    I made a simple proposal of a fix for the tax law which is so broken they might as well say, stuff it, don't pay any tax at all.
    So why don't they just change the law?  Answer me that Mr Genius.
    Because politicians are useless and lazy, but I believe they may finally be working on it because telling the Australian public that the 50% hike in GST they will all have to pay is needed to subsidise multinationals so they can continue to fleece them with higher prices than are charged in most other markets, is probably going to be a bit of a hard sell.
    edited January 2016
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