The rich also take in 90% of the financial gains over the last 2 decades and actually end up paying a lower effective tax rate than most citizens. And the comment that 50% pay no federal tax is crap. Unless you are making close to minimum wage, you are paying federal taxes. If you are you are in extreme poverty and can barely afford to eat and have shelter.
As Bernie and Obama and Hillary would say, "Apple should pay their fair share".
I'm somewhat left of centre but they are paying their fair share. That's the $9M. Which is pretty high really.
Cupertino isn't much. It's a seperate city administratively from San Jose and the others but really all the cities there merge into each other. I don't think you could even say it has a recognisable town centre. It's mostly houses. Furthermore Apple is on the corner of de. Anza and 280, most employees who take the motorway will drive the 30 yards it takes them to leave 280, turn onto De Anza and then into infinite loop. Most of the rest will travel from San Jose or los gratos and drive a mile on de Anza at most. It's not true that most employees live there. The idea that it's straining the infrastructure is nonsense.
Apple could easily design their products in Ireland. There's nothing about being designed in Cupertino that increases the value of Apple products.
No they can't. A desirable place to live (& alternative employment options) is crucial to attracting tech workers (or really any highly skilled work force). That isn't happening in Ireland (no offense to the Irish). Apple (& other companies) would if they could.
Sog can be a bit tiring, but however tough Tim is behind the office/boardroom door, he just doesn't convey it in the media. I appreciate his stance on privacy, but he didn't sell it with power.
I'll toss this out there for you thinkers. In the beginning of the computer revolution there were two factions. You had the Aumentation Faction, whose technical and spiritual leader was Doug Engelbart, and you had the AI Faction, which was and still is populated by a lot of folks who've yet to make it manifest. Steve was and today's Apple is the full flower of the Augmentation dream. We're basically at peak Augmentation and that's Apple's present business paradigm.
It's taken until recently for AI to become functional enough to play a role in our day to day lives. Siri et al etc. Self-driving cars, buses, boats, planes, etc are coming fast. Other AI-Based stuff we can't imagine in the next 20. After about 60 years of promises, The curve of AI is finally ramping up from the Y Axis. Here's the rub.
AI requires input data. Massive input data that it can swish about in its algorithms. If the AI is going to do things just for you, as a consumer of technology, such as know which version of your favorite Mozart piano concerto you prefer on Fridays, after a 14-Hour work day, when you're pulling the cork on a Mondavi Cab, then it's going to have to suck ALL of your data + behaviors + schedules + contacts + locations + etc up into the cloud for analysis. In the early to middle phase of the evolution of consumer AI, the more data you give your chosen AI assistant, the better it's going to serve you. Therefore, Free Market competition dictates that the AI that sucks tbe most data will perform the best! The privacy fallout from these phases of Consumer AI has a high potential of making today's privacy and security issues look insignificant. The mature phase of Consumer AI will find a way to provide the value and services without privacy and security problems.
If Apple does not leap beyond it's wonderful, cozy, profitable Augmentation paradigm soon, it risks being too late to the AI party. Further, when Apple leaps, it must leap to where the puck will be, which is the mature phase of Consumer AI. All the functionality none of the privacy risk. IMHO, Tim and the board need to integrate a position on privacy, both technically and in the media, that leads to this mission critical goal.
Haven't I heard this story before? Like someone said they're trying to spread the wealth around..
I..just..can't... remember.
TBH, I don't expect much else from California as a whole, or for that matter NY, WA, OR, CT and pretty much any other "what's yours is mine" state.
which include the very poor, the elderly, the unemployed, veterans, etc..
it does not mean what you're trying to pretend it means -- that nearly half the country are lazy good for nothings.
It simply means what it says, I'm not carving it up into categories.
The bottom line is when compute the total tax burden well (lets say federal, state, local/city, property, sales, wholesale taxes and import fees burned into costs of goods, regulator fees, tolls, capital gains, etc..) for people who do reasonably well (let's say a married professional couple making $300k per year), what do you imagine the total burden is? What is fair?
People who do "well" easily pay 45-55% of their earnings to various government entities. This is partly due to government largess, government ineptness, and a situation where nearly half our population pays nothing.
I presume you understand not only the lack of fairness, but the detrimental nature of a progressive structure.
Apple could easily design their products in Ireland. There's nothing about being designed in Cupertino that increases the value of Apple products.
No they can't. A desirable place to live (& alternative employment options) is crucial to attracting tech workers (or really any highly skilled work force). That isn't happening in Ireland (no offense to the Irish). Apple (& other companies) would if they could.
Although there aren't that many options in Cork, Ireland as a whole has plenty of IT jobs. And Silicon Valley though great once is not that easy a place to live in now. That said its the venture capital that will keep creating jobs there, and that's not going to slow down.
you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, from week to week. it's insane. the notion that Cook didn't earn his role, or that no respects him, is insane. you really need help.
Apple's PE tells the whole story.
Sub 10 PE's are given to companies that are 1 foot in the grave. Sub 10 PE's are given to companies that are trending down, hard.
Hell IBM which has had shrinking revenue for TWO DECADES has a higher PE than Apple. Its absolutely pathetic.
Investors and Wall Street don't respect Cook at all. If they did respect Cook, Apple's PE would be 20 and have a share price of $200.
So I have to ask...who would you pick as CEO to replace Tim? Who would do a better job? And don't say well anyone could do a better job than Tim...thats a total BS answer.
How many millions of dollars is Apple's new campus pouring into that economy, and he has the nerve to demand even more? That doesn't seem right.
Probably almost none. I'd bet that nearly all of the companies and contractors working on the project are located outside of Cupertino. Even Apple's own employees who live outside of Cupertino probably contribute very little to the city's revenues on an individual basis.
It's not any different from people who live in Virginia or Maryland and work in DC. Or live in NW Indiana and work in Chicago. The mayor's plan of charging a $1000/head tax is pretty stupid, but the city does have a right to collect revenue to pay for the roads and services that the city provides to the benefit of Apple and it's employees, even if they live outside of the city limits. Hard to say if what Apple is already paying is a fair amount or not without more information, but first he needs to make a case and provide a rational justification for his proposals. Just saying "you're the biggest employer in town, give us more money" isn't a very good strategy.
I bet that a lot of Apple employees are Bernie supporters who have contributed to the campaign and they support higher taxation!
Now pay up what you owe! Put your money where your mouth is!
Apple only contributes nearly 20% of the city's tax revenue? It should clearly be much higher!
Down with the rich! Down with greedy corporations! The rich are evil! And Apple has plenty of money! It's absolutely disgusting that any company should make that much money.
Let's dismantle Apple and nationalize it! Power to the people! Crackhead lives matter!
Cupertino is the 11th wealthiest city with a population over 50,000 in the United States - they are the rich
It is surprising how crappy a city Cupertino is, a glorified suburb, for a city that rich, maybe the mayor should be embarrassed by that... Most Silicon valley cities are an embarrassment or urban planning; it's like they're all stuck in the 1960s even though most development happened post 1980s.
So basically, he wants Apple with all of its BILLIONS of dollars to pay 100% of Cupertino's taxes. I mean Apple could have easily chosen to build its new headquarters elsewhere. Maybe some of these issues should have been brought up BEFORE they approved of Apple Campus 2 being approved by the city. Were they afraid to say no to Steve Jobs in the first place???
its not like Apple is bullying the city to get out of paying taxes. Sounds like poor planning on the city's part for all of these projects and the mayor wants Apple to pay for it because it has the money to do so.
Funny how everyone seems to think they deserve a small portion of Apple's cash...
Thing is Apple clearly does impact the community both Pro -- housing, shopping, gas, coffee, essentially the halo effect of one employer having so many emplyees, visitors, 2nd tier contractors/consultants on site regularly, and Con -- traffic, congestion, infrastructure (public utilities). The impact of such a large company is not always about the tax dollars into the community's coffers.
While Cupertino most certainly appreciates the income from higher property values, sales tax, and all the additional fiscal benefits, it would appear they failed to account for the additional strain the new campus would place on its ever aging infrastructure. Community Development departments are notoriously spineless and cave routinely to the pressures of politicians/residents/other businesses to give in rather than require an assessment of the added strain on existing transportation and municipally owned facilities (water / sewer/ electric).
The mayor suddenly having an epiphany in regards to the needed update/upkeep of these facilities is what seems to be causing the stir. The need is real and not imagined. If studied and and any shortcomings addressed or requested at the time of the initial permitting process, I doubt this would be such a heated point of discussion.
The Campus, even the parking lot, is straight off the freeway, and there were already buildings there. It is likely that this Campus has LESS impact than what was there before. So, total BS mister mayor.
Sub 10 PE's are given to companies that are 1 foot in the grave. Sub 10 PE's are given to companies that are trending down, hard.
PE is not given, it is calculated. It is essentially the number of years it would take to cover the price if the earnings remained the same.
A low PE is not so bad for a company that has a lot of cash. Investors obviously want the share price to go up, but I don't think Apple really cares because they have all the cash they need and don't have to depend on increasing share price to finance acquisitions or new product development. I don't think Apple views itself as a growth stock at this point. That sort of jibes with them starting to pay a dividend and buying back shares.
Frankly would it kill Apple to support its local community a bit more. It can afford it.
It already does. It provides the community THOUSANDS of well paying jobs. It pays MILLIONS in corporate taxes and generates BILLIONS to the local economy.
Billions to the local economy is about the dumbest thing you've ever said.
Cupertino has an 8.75% sales tax, which is relatively high for a smaller city, so Chang doesn't appear to be wrong in saying that raising the sales tax isn't such a great idea. Sales taxes are statistically proven to be more of a burden on lower income residents than anyone else.
It already does. It provides the community THOUSANDS of well paying jobs. It pays MILLIONS in corporate taxes and generates BILLIONS to the local economy.
Billions to the local economy is about the dumbest thing you've ever said.
I think he got the BILLIONS and the MILLIONS the wrong way round. So definitely don't take financial advice from him.
yes this guy. This is the guy that Tim cook is allowing to heap crap on the Apple name.
I'm getting sick of Tim Cook being such a push over and allowing small fry to crap on Apple's brand. Weird that when Steve Jobs was CEO hardly anyone in media/politics/Wall Street crapped on Apple. Yet now Apple is more powerful and richer than ever it gets crapped on all the time.
wtf are you talking about!? Crap on the brand? How is this Tim's fault? LOLOLOLOL man some of you in the comments here crack me up!
Clearly, sog35 has gone nonlinear regarding Tim Cook and anything even remotely related to him, or might possibly be construed to be related. It's like he was dumped before the prom or something.
Either that, or he's taken up trolling to another level altogether.
Comments
it does not mean what you're trying to pretend it means -- that nearly half the country are lazy good for nothings.
Cupertino isn't much. It's a seperate city administratively from San Jose and the others but really all the cities there merge into each other. I don't think you could even say it has a recognisable town centre. It's mostly houses. Furthermore Apple is on the corner of de. Anza and 280, most employees who take the motorway will drive the 30 yards it takes them to leave 280, turn onto De Anza and then into infinite loop. Most of the rest will travel from San Jose or los gratos and drive a mile on de Anza at most. It's not true that most employees live there. The idea that it's straining the infrastructure is nonsense.
I'll toss this out there for you thinkers. In the beginning of the computer revolution there were two factions. You had the Aumentation Faction, whose technical and spiritual leader was Doug Engelbart, and you had the AI Faction, which was and still is populated by a lot of folks who've yet to make it manifest. Steve was and today's Apple is the full flower of the Augmentation dream. We're basically at peak Augmentation and that's Apple's present business paradigm.
It's taken until recently for AI to become functional enough to play a role in our day to day lives. Siri et al etc. Self-driving cars, buses, boats, planes, etc are coming fast. Other AI-Based stuff we can't imagine in the next 20. After about 60 years of promises, The curve of AI is finally ramping up from the Y Axis. Here's the rub.
AI requires input data. Massive input data that it can swish about in its algorithms. If the AI is going to do things just for you, as a consumer of technology, such as know which version of your favorite Mozart piano concerto you prefer on Fridays, after a 14-Hour work day, when you're pulling the cork on a Mondavi Cab, then it's going to have to suck ALL of your data + behaviors + schedules + contacts + locations + etc up into the cloud for analysis. In the early to middle phase of the evolution of consumer AI, the more data you give your chosen AI assistant, the better it's going to serve you. Therefore, Free Market competition dictates that the AI that sucks tbe most data will perform the best! The privacy fallout from these phases of Consumer AI has a high potential of making today's privacy and security issues look insignificant. The mature phase of Consumer AI will find a way to provide the value and services without privacy and security problems.
If Apple does not leap beyond it's wonderful, cozy, profitable Augmentation paradigm soon, it risks being too late to the AI party. Further, when Apple leaps, it must leap to where the puck will be, which is the mature phase of Consumer AI. All the functionality none of the privacy risk. IMHO, Tim and the board need to integrate a position on privacy, both technically and in the media, that leads to this mission critical goal.
It simply means what it says, I'm not carving it up into categories.
The bottom line is when compute the total tax burden well (lets say federal, state, local/city, property, sales, wholesale taxes and import fees burned into costs of goods, regulator fees, tolls, capital gains, etc..) for people who do reasonably well (let's say a married professional couple making $300k per year), what do you imagine the total burden is? What is fair?
People who do "well" easily pay 45-55% of their earnings to various government entities. This is partly due to government largess, government ineptness, and a situation where nearly half our population pays nothing.
I presume you understand not only the lack of fairness, but the detrimental nature of a progressive structure.
So I have to ask...who would you pick as CEO to replace Tim? Who would do a better job? And don't say well anyone could do a better job than Tim...thats a total BS answer.
It's not any different from people who live in Virginia or Maryland and work in DC. Or live in NW Indiana and work in Chicago. The mayor's plan of charging a $1000/head tax is pretty stupid, but the city does have a right to collect revenue to pay for the roads and services that the city provides to the benefit of Apple and it's employees, even if they live outside of the city limits. Hard to say if what Apple is already paying is a fair amount or not without more information, but first he needs to make a case and provide a rational justification for his proposals. Just saying "you're the biggest employer in town, give us more money" isn't a very good strategy.
http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_29622434/cupertino-mayor-barry-chang-penalized-by-fppc
Most Silicon valley cities are an embarrassment or urban planning; it's like they're all stuck in the 1960s even though most development happened post 1980s.
A low PE is not so bad for a company that has a lot of cash. Investors obviously want the share price to go up, but I don't think Apple really cares because they have all the cash they need and don't have to depend on increasing share price to finance acquisitions or new product development. I don't think Apple views itself as a growth stock at this point. That sort of jibes with them starting to pay a dividend and buying back shares.
Either that, or he's taken up trolling to another level altogether.