Apple can just go "here's the standard Apple Pay terms and conditions, have a nice day".
The Australian banks are on very shakey ground , if they can "force" Apple to turn a closed platform into an open platform on this, they could equally claim to force 3rd party App Stores etc.
And that is exactly what Apple is going to say. Nobody can "force" them to open anything...they will pull Apple Pay out of Australia before that happens.
Anti-competitive? Those three are having a laugh and a joke at their customers expense because they don't have enough competition - contactless reader technology is fairly widespread in the UK - but RFID bank cards are fundamentally insecure to walk-by scamming. I use ApplePay daily and watch people in the coffee shop queues' reaction as I use the same device for loyalty card and payment, its much faster and more secure than chip and pin, cards only come out when there's antediluvian technology in the shops or I need some cash. Why do I need to put my card in a slot? can't I have ApplePay secured cash machines. Please?
Oh spare us the BS. The coffee shop has NFC, by your own admission, so how is it quicker to use Apple Pay than wave an NFC card? Oh that's right, it isn't. Oh, that's right, you don't want to use such a card because of walk-by scamming. Care to post some examples of this actually happening and someone being left out of pocket because the bank wouldn't cover it?
Not sure exactly what you're going on about, but you sound like an Australian bank employee who has never used Apple Pay.
Develop an app for Android. Use Android wallet. Use CurrentC. There's lots of availability for competition out there. Apple built their walled garden for a purpose so if you don't want to play in their garden by their rules, you can always play in the Android cess pool or build your own mobile phone and payment ecosystem. Suck it up princesses.
A couple of other things they want: 1. The ability to insert an app between Amazon and all their customers so they don't have to pay Amazon any money. 2. The ability to sell their own burgers at all McDonald drive thru windows without having to pay McDonalds any money. 3. The ability to have their own cars and sales people at all Ford dealerships without having to pay Ford any money.
You really are pushing it. If you use an NFC card in Australia, the transaction is tokenized, that is not an Apple invention and is not exclusive to Apple Pay. There is no security on NFC transactions under $100 because the banks are prepared to reimburse you for any fraud involving such transactions and to wear the cost because it so minuscule compared to the efficiency savings, so in terms of the security of YOUR money, there is no advantage with Apple Pay.
There are several advantages to Apple Pay, but someone with a simple mind like yours is more concerned with trolling than actually thinking about how these systems work. So either you're ignorant or you're a liar. Which is it?
Do you suppose you could be more specific about those alleged advantages rather than just engage in a personal attack? Can you identify something in what I said that is not factually correct and which you think counts as a lie?
Typical approach of a banking cartel: - speak of vibrant competition while actually preserving status quo or consolidating; - reap profits; - fund politicians; - receive desired legislation and political support; - raise barriers to entry for potential new competitors; - privatize profits while protecting for socialized risk; - avoid innovation and customer oriented investment (unless it dramatically decreases operating expenses); - if you do innovate, take off the shelf systems that you can control (vendor must always be subordinate); - if a new entrant appears boycott; - if new entrant's efforts gain traction, raise regulatory challenges; - if regulatory system doesn't belong to your lobbying organization, begin negotiations to work with vendor with hope that regulatory threats, or homegrown alternatives will be enough to tame demands of vendor.
If if the system isn't corrupt, then for the banking cartel to get in bed with a strong vendor, it takes customers switching loyalties to a competitor get things moving, and something like the Kubler Ross stages of grieving to get through.
Australian banks are even more profitable than their Swiss counterparts - on part because they pull stunts like this, but mostly because they have absurd fees that are significantly out of order to the services provided. This is the result from a lack of real competition.
Despite Australia's relatively small population, transaction fees were over 2 billion in 2015. Make no mistake, this is what the banks are protecting - they don't give a damn about consumers or competition. In fact they try to harm competition at every opportunity.
The suggestion that any or all providers of closed-NFC hardware must open such hardware for competitors is idiotic. There is no such thing as having a monopoly on your own platform. Meanwhile Commonwealth Bank's latest EFT terminal deliberately excludes support for American Express, a clear indication that they are two faced about such an approach.
The "modern" solutions provided by these banks are laughable and lacking in security. One such example is the Commonwealth Bank's stick-on NFC token which they advise to stick onto your smart phone. The problem here is that sales under $100 are completely pin code free, and should the phone be stolen the primary means of managing the token is taken away. Compare that to Apple Pay which requires a finger print for verification, and utilises a tokenised transaction and it's clear that the banks aren't interested in even basic protections for consumers.
This whole thread is a laugh. Boo hoo, big mean Australian banks with their terrible monopoly and no competition.
ANZ, Westpac, Commonwealth, NAB, that's all there is for a poor bank choice impoverished ausie to choose from, right? That's the usual whinge, right? Don't mention the other 339 banks, building societies, credit unions and such you could choose from, that would spoil the story, wouldn't it? A population of about 20 million and only 343 financial institutions to choose from, boo hoo, there's no competition!
The big 4 are big and stay big because they are amongst the best financial institutions available in the world. Seriously, if you think Australian banks are a rip off, move to another country and live there for a while. I currently live in Ireland and have lived in Australia. I'll take Australian banks anytime, I have accounts in both countries. You complain of fees - ha! Try an Irish bank. I have my quarterly fees statement right here next to me. €10.35 for Account maintenance, 24 electronic transactions and 3 ATM withdrawals. I have taken to withdrawing my max cash ATM amount and paying cash wherever possible. I have an ANZ account that I consider expensive in terms of fees, which amounted to €4 for the quarter; my accounts with another Australian bank attract no fees whatsoever. Australian banks provide a lot of value for the fees they charge. If you think those charges are out of order, tell us where you think the services provided are better and the fees lower.
You mention Swiss banks. You want absurd fees try dealing with one of those. I asked about being able to check my balance online and they said they could provide me an electronic security device for secure login. That will be €85 Herr ******. No thanks. Rabo Bank gave me one for free. Swiss banks have a sense of supercilious entitlement and charge like wounded bulls. It's a wonder they haven't become extinct.
You think Australian bank fees of $2 B a year amount to expensive? Are you kidding? The reason Australian banks don't want to provide Apple Pay is because their transaction fees are so low and Apple is asking for the same cut they get in the US - Duh! Australian banks charge half the interbank fees US banks charge.
No such thing as monopoly on your own platform? Right, OK, so Australian banks provide the entire electronic banking infrastructure and platform in Australia so it's Ok for them to tell Apple to take a hike. Right, gotcha. "Meanwhile Commonwealth Bank's latest EFT terminal deliberately excludes
support for American Express, a clear indication that they are two faced
about such an approach." But you just said the provider of the platform... Forget it, you probably wouldn't understand.
You really are pushing it. If you use an NFC card in Australia, the transaction is tokenized, that is not an Apple invention and is not exclusive to Apple Pay. There is no security on NFC transactions under $100 because the banks are prepared to reimburse you for any fraud involving such transactions and to wear the cost because it so minuscule compared to the efficiency savings, so in terms of the security of YOUR money, there is no advantage with Apple Pay.
1. In terms of convenience, Apple Pay from Apple Watch, or from your iPhone if it's already out because you were playing Pokemon Go in the queue at the supermarket, is easier and faster than getting out your wallet, finding the specific card you want to use and tapping or using chip and pin or tap & pin. Changing between cards eg merchant does not support AMEX, is also faster. As Apple Pay is the treated similarly to chip & pin, you don't need to enter a pin for a transaction over AUD $100. Double press on the watch & you are done.
Thats the key thing - the point of comparison is not only sub $100 tap and go transactions - the user experience is the same above this threshold.
2. NFC based transactions in Australia are not inherently tokenized (eg Suncorp aren't) and Apple Pay does offer a stronger security posture for the customer by side stepping issues of compromised POS systems.
Keep in mind Apple Pay can also work in online transactions, so the merchant's web site being compromised does not post facto expose your card details.
3. This behavior is par for the course for Australian banks. You might be too young to remember Bankcard, which was a cartel response by the Australian Banks to avoid ceding "control" to MasterCard & Visa when credit cards were introduced.
This is absolutely crazy! They don't want to use the service at first. Then when they see how well it succeeds with one bank, now they all want in and they don't want to pay for it.
I am going to try this theory at my local gym. I really don't want to pay their membership so I am going to sue so I can install my ass on their equipment.
This has nothing to do with anti competitive issues and everything to do with the fact the Aussie banks IT staff are so useless they can't implement Apple Pay
Used to work at an Aussie Bank (not in IT) - they outsource all their development to the cheapest off shore source they can find - they were meant to have implemented Apple Pay by October last year (well that was the latest deadline - it was March before that) - they couldn't because the cheap "we all have (bought) PHd's from the best universities in our country" developers couldn't figure it out
I also worked for an Aussie bank in IT and Payments is the place it's at for people who want to do anything innovative. They definitely have the people and skills.
Here's what it's really about - the Reserve Bank wants to mandate interchange fees down from 0.5% to about 0.3% (about one third of what it is in the US) and the banks don't want to give Apple 0.15% for their part in it.
I think Apple should recognise the banks in Australia already have widely rolled out the infrastructure and their investment in the country would be much less. If they can get down to 5bps or event 8-10, I think Commbank would jump to do it and you'd see NAB and Westpac having to follow. Whatever ANZ have negotiated, I can only see the other banks having to fall in line as they will lose customers on this.
The article is inaccurate , the banks have asked to be allowed to negotiate with Apple as a block.
Normally negotiating like this would constitute cartel behavior and be illegal.
Apple can just go "here's the standard Apple Pay terms and conditions, have a nice day".
The Australian banks are on very shakey ground , if they can "force" Apple to turn a closed platform into an open platform on this, they could equally claim to force 3rd party App Stores etc.
Personally, I think they are arrogant and delusional, and will be in for a shock.
Here's a thought : what if Apple plans to get rid of Secure Element in future devices and go down a different path anchoring in secure enclave instead, with a specific SDK & API, so the banks can not just port their Android solution .
Well done on doing the research, unlike most people on this thread. Yes, the reason the banks have applied to the ACCC is so they can negotiate as a group. Without approval of the ACCC, this could be determined to be anti-competitive by other entities with an interest. They also want this to include negotiations with all third-party payment systems, particularly Android Pay and Samsung Pay. They do single out Apple's policies around Apple Pay for special attention, however.
They also allege, in the documentation, that Apple is being anti-competitive in not opening up the NFC antenna to other apps, while they seem perfectly happy to let anyone use Bluetooth, WiFi, or the cellular modem. They want to install their own apps to handle payments, rather than relying on the Apple Wallet. While making arguments about competition and technology, I think it's pretty clear they just don't want to pay Apple interchange fees.
They hold up what happened with negotiations in the US and UK as examples of what might happen here. It's basically a rant against letting market forces decide what they can do. Still, everyone loves capitalism until it happens to them.
For what it's worth, I do think Apple needs to be a bit more responsive to local markets in setting its fees, our bank interchange fees are significantly lower than in the US or the UK, but I don't really see the restrictions on access to NFC or the Apple Wallet as being anti-competitive.
In any event, if the ACCC approves the application, this does not mean they have ruled that Apple is anti-competitive, just that it is reasonable to allow the banks to negotiate as a block in this instance. I suspect (hope?) the language about access to NFC is just included as leverage, and that it will mostly be ignored. If they do push the access and third-party app issues, though, I hope they get laughed out of the hearing.
I'm not surprised with the banks. It's Australia, what do you expect? Look at the other industries such as retail.
Just because Woolworths and Coles can't compete with Aldi's pricing they took Aldi to the court on the issue of the team members at POS serving customers sitting on a chair. Sounds funny!!! Laugh... I'm not stopping you.
Few years ago, Dicksmith, Harvey Norman, JB-Hi-Fi went to ACCC crying to stop the online retailers including eBay because they can't compete on price. By compete I meant rip off people. Well eBay is still here, Dicksmith is NOT.
So, why the banks would be different?
I don't know from where people get data? But I pay $6/month account fee and 19% on my credit card.
Oh no here we go again. Real choice and better outcomes are providing us with ApplePay - NOT what are better for the bank pockets. ApplePay is long overdue in this country, and now I know why. As in 5 minutes ago, I just joined ANZ and plan to cancel my account with CBA.
Few years ago, Dicksmith, Harvey Norman, JB-Hi-Fi went to ACCC crying to stop the online retailers including eBay because they can't compete on price. By compete I meant rip off people. Well eBay is still here, Dicksmith is NOT.
The joke with Harvey Norman is that Gerry Harvey made his money by challenging the Department Store model, and introducing the Big Box Store model to Australia back in the 80s. (Locating the stores in Industrial estates where the rents are cheap, co-locating with the warehouse to keep costs down and improve delivery times, etc...) The minute someone comes in trying to challenge him, he starts whining he can't compete, just like the Department Stores complained about him.
It is so typical. The Australian banks have the highest fees in the world for their services. 20+% interest on average credit card in a 1.5% inflation environment! The Commonwealth bank came with profits of 8.8bln dollars and now they are complaining that Apple is fee ripper from those poor banks.
What a Hippocracy !!!
Really?
My Australian Mastercard has an APR of 9.99% If I were to get a Mastercard with my Irish bank, the APR would be 22.7%
So Australian banks have the highest fees in the world? - only if you haven't a clue and don't actually know anything about your own country, let alone those elsewhere.
The CBA charge half the interbank fees US banks charge, yet Apple want the same fees they get from US banks, so that makes the CBA the one doing the rip-off? I will bet most CBA shareholders would disagree.
(hypocrisy)
TX for the grammar correction but really interbank fee is
nothing in comparison to profits from credit card interest.
The Australian MasterCard you are talking about does not offer any points and
most people here are using CC that have points. Don't compare bad with bad.
Compare the CC here to the US for example! Also this 20%+ interest does not
include the yearly fee that for decent card that give you decent points can go
up to over $250 per year and some charge over $500 too.
Apple fees are nothing in comparison to the local bank fees. Also note that the
banks charging the seller and the buyer while Apple is only charging the
seller.
Add to this the security that Apple provide. Just to give an example. My AMEX was replaced once and my Visa was replaced twice. I am
40 years in computers and I'm never using garbage on-line sites for
purchases + my PC's are 100% secure. It is the nature of the bank security
systems that are weak.
So without hesitation I would run to Apple Pay and that is what the banks here
are fearing - people have enough of their messy treatment.
So yes it is a hypocrisy!
Is it "anti-competitive" for a restaurant to serve only the food that they themselves prepare? Is it "anti-competitive" for factory car dealers to only sell their own brand of automobile?
The why the fvck is it "anti-competitive" for a device payment service provider to only support their own payment app?
Surprise, surprise. This is utter disgusting behaviour by the Australian bank cartel. Whilst they may be a tiny argument it stinks of protectivism of their own interests and profits.
Apples offering is all about safer and more secure payments, and one that offers consumers a better choice.
If other banks around the world particular in the UK and US have embraced this technology then clearly the banks argument in Australia is all about them and not in the interests of anyone else.
i am shocked, disappointed and alarmed at this. Quite honestly, the Government should be holding the banks to account for stifling innovation and choice.
The banks should feel disgusted with themselves for trying to keep Australia in the dark ages of technology.
This whole thread is a laugh. Boo hoo, big mean Australian banks with their terrible monopoly and no competition.
ANZ, Westpac, Commonwealth, NAB, that's all there is for a poor bank choice impoverished ausie to choose from, right? That's the usual whinge, right? Don't mention the other 339 banks, building societies, credit unions and such you could choose from, that would spoil the story, wouldn't it? A population of about 20 million and only 343 financial institutions to choose from, boo hoo, there's no competition!
The big 4 are big and stay big because they are amongst the best financial institutions available in the world. Seriously, if you think Australian banks are a rip off, move to another country and live there for a while. I currently live in Ireland and have lived in Australia. I'll take Australian banks anytime, I have accounts in both countries. You complain of fees - ha! Try an Irish bank. I have my quarterly fees statement right here next to me. €10.35 for Account maintenance, 24 electronic transactions and 3 ATM withdrawals. I have taken to withdrawing my max cash ATM amount and paying cash wherever possible. I have an ANZ account that I consider expensive in terms of fees, which amounted to €4 for the quarter; my accounts with another Australian bank attract no fees whatsoever. Australian banks provide a lot of value for the fees they charge. If you think those charges are out of order, tell us where you think the services provided are better and the fees lower.
You mention Swiss banks. You want absurd fees try dealing with one of those. I asked about being able to check my balance online and they said they could provide me an electronic security device for secure login. That will be €85 Herr ******. No thanks. Rabo Bank gave me one for free. Swiss banks have a sense of supercilious entitlement and charge like wounded bulls. It's a wonder they haven't become extinct.
You think Australian bank fees of $2 B a year amount to expensive? Are you kidding? The reason Australian banks don't want to provide Apple Pay is because their transaction fees are so low and Apple is asking for the same cut they get in the US - Duh! Australian banks charge half the interbank fees US banks charge.
No such thing as monopoly on your own platform? Right, OK, so Australian banks provide the entire electronic banking infrastructure and platform in Australia so it's Ok for them to tell Apple to take a hike. Right, gotcha. "Meanwhile Commonwealth Bank's latest EFT terminal deliberately excludes
support for American Express, a clear indication that they are two faced
about such an approach." But you just said the provider of the platform... Forget it, you probably wouldn't understand.
You really are pushing it. If you use an NFC card in Australia, the transaction is tokenized, that is not an Apple invention and is not exclusive to Apple Pay. There is no security on NFC transactions under $100 because the banks are prepared to reimburse you for any fraud involving such transactions and to wear the cost because it so minuscule compared to the efficiency savings, so in terms of the security of YOUR money, there is no advantage with Apple Pay.
1. In terms of convenience, Apple Pay from Apple Watch, or from your iPhone if it's already out because you were playing Pokemon Go in the queue at the supermarket, is easier and faster than getting out your wallet, finding the specific card you want to use and tapping or using chip and pin or tap & pin. Changing between cards eg merchant does not support AMEX, is also faster. As Apple Pay is the treated similarly to chip & pin, you don't need to enter a pin for a transaction over AUD $100. Double press on the watch & you are done.
Thats the key thing - the point of comparison is not only sub $100 tap and go transactions - the user experience is the same above this threshold.
2. NFC based transactions in Australia are not inherently tokenized (eg Suncorp aren't) and Apple Pay does offer a stronger security posture for the customer by side stepping issues of compromised POS systems.
Keep in mind Apple Pay can also work in online transactions, so the merchant's web site being compromised does not post facto expose your card details.
3. This behavior is par for the course for Australian banks. You might be too young to remember Bankcard, which was a cartel response by the Australian Banks to avoid ceding "control" to MasterCard & Visa when credit cards were introduced.
Let's also bear in mind, some of those "other banks" such as BankWest and other alternatives are actually owned by the big 4 banks, so when you think you getting away from them, you're not. BankWest was becoming a hugely successful independent bank. ConBank (aka Commonwealth of Australia also known as Comm bank) bought them out. Swallowed up a competitor.
This whole thread is a laugh. Boo hoo, big mean Australian banks with their terrible monopoly and no competition.
ANZ, Westpac, Commonwealth, NAB, that's all there is for a poor bank choice impoverished ausie to choose from, right? That's the usual whinge, right? Don't mention the other 339 banks, building societies, credit unions and such you could choose from, that would spoil the story, wouldn't it? A population of about 20 million and only 343 financial institutions to choose from, boo hoo, there's no competition!
The big 4 are big and stay big because they are amongst the best financial institutions available in the world. Seriously, if you think Australian banks are a rip off, move to another country and live there for a while. I currently live in Ireland and have lived in Australia. I'll take Australian banks anytime, I have accounts in both countries. You complain of fees - ha! Try an Irish bank. I have my quarterly fees statement right here next to me. €10.35 for Account maintenance, 24 electronic transactions and 3 ATM withdrawals. I have taken to withdrawing my max cash ATM amount and paying cash wherever possible. I have an ANZ account that I consider expensive in terms of fees, which amounted to €4 for the quarter; my accounts with another Australian bank attract no fees whatsoever. Australian banks provide a lot of value for the fees they charge. If you think those charges are out of order, tell us where you think the services provided are better and the fees lower.
You mention Swiss banks. You want absurd fees try dealing with one of those. I asked about being able to check my balance online and they said they could provide me an electronic security device for secure login. That will be €85 Herr ******. No thanks. Rabo Bank gave me one for free. Swiss banks have a sense of supercilious entitlement and charge like wounded bulls. It's a wonder they haven't become extinct.
You think Australian bank fees of $2 B a year amount to expensive? Are you kidding? The reason Australian banks don't want to provide Apple Pay is because their transaction fees are so low and Apple is asking for the same cut they get in the US - Duh! Australian banks charge half the interbank fees US banks charge.
No such thing as monopoly on your own platform? Right, OK, so Australian banks provide the entire electronic banking infrastructure and platform in Australia so it's Ok for them to tell Apple to take a hike. Right, gotcha. "Meanwhile Commonwealth Bank's latest EFT terminal deliberately excludes
support for American Express, a clear indication that they are two faced
about such an approach." But you just said the provider of the platform... Forget it, you probably wouldn't understand.
You really are pushing it. If you use an NFC card in Australia, the transaction is tokenized, that is not an Apple invention and is not exclusive to Apple Pay. There is no security on NFC transactions under $100 because the banks are prepared to reimburse you for any fraud involving such transactions and to wear the cost because it so minuscule compared to the efficiency savings, so in terms of the security of YOUR money, there is no advantage with Apple Pay.
1. In terms of convenience, Apple Pay from Apple Watch, or from your iPhone if it's already out because you were playing Pokemon Go in the queue at the supermarket, is easier and faster than getting out your wallet, finding the specific card you want to use and tapping or using chip and pin or tap & pin. Changing between cards eg merchant does not support AMEX, is also faster. As Apple Pay is the treated similarly to chip & pin, you don't need to enter a pin for a transaction over AUD $100. Double press on the watch & you are done.
Thats the key thing - the point of comparison is not only sub $100 tap and go transactions - the user experience is the same above this threshold.
2. NFC based transactions in Australia are not inherently tokenized (eg Suncorp aren't) and Apple Pay does offer a stronger security posture for the customer by side stepping issues of compromised POS systems.
Keep in mind Apple Pay can also work in online transactions, so the merchant's web site being compromised does not post facto expose your card details.
3. This behavior is par for the course for Australian banks. You might be too young to remember Bankcard, which was a cartel response by the Australian Banks to avoid ceding "control" to MasterCard & Visa when credit cards were introduced.
Let's also bear in mind, some of those "other banks" such as BankWest and other alternatives are actually owned by the big 4 banks, so when you think you getting away from them, you're not. BankWest was becoming a hugely successful independent bank. ConBank (aka Commonwealth of Australia also known as Comm bank) bought them out. Swallowed up a competitor.
Surprise, surprise. This is utter disgusting behaviour by the Australian bank cartel. Whilst they may be a tiny argument it stinks of protectivism of their own interests and profits.
Apples offering is all about safer and more secure payments, and one that offers consumers a better choice.
If other banks around the world particular in the UK and US have embraced this technology then clearly the banks argument in Australia is all about them and not in the interests of anyone else.
i am shocked, disappointed and alarmed at this. Quite honestly, the Government should be holding the banks to account for stifling innovation and choice.
The banks should feel disgusted with themselves for trying to keep Australia in the dark ages of technology.
It has been pointed out in these forums many a time that Apple is free to charge whatever it likes from sellers wanting to sell through their app store. I believe Apple takes 30%. If it's fair for Apple to set the fees for use of it's systems, why is not also just as fair for the Australian banks to set the fees for use of their systems - the financial systems created, financed and owned by the Australian banks? Why is it just the banks fault, why isn't Apple also at fault for not reducing their demands?
I hear you have a house to rent. I'll tell you what, I don't want to pay you rent, I want you you to pay me $100 a week to live in your house. That ok with you? When can can I move in?
I'm working O/S at the moment, but when I get back to Oz I'll definitely cancel my current CC - with one of other banks - and open an account with ANZ, just so I can use Apple Pay.
Comments
And that is exactly what Apple is going to say. Nobody can "force" them to open anything...they will pull Apple Pay out of Australia before that happens.
Not sure exactly what you're going on about, but you sound like an Australian bank employee who has never used Apple Pay.
A couple of other things they want:
1. The ability to insert an app between Amazon and all their customers so they don't have to pay Amazon any money.
2. The ability to sell their own burgers at all McDonald drive thru windows without having to pay McDonalds any money.
3. The ability to have their own cars and sales people at all Ford dealerships without having to pay Ford any money.
- speak of vibrant competition while actually preserving status quo or consolidating;
- reap profits;
- fund politicians;
- receive desired legislation and political support;
- raise barriers to entry for potential new competitors;
- privatize profits while protecting for socialized risk;
- avoid innovation and customer oriented investment (unless it dramatically decreases operating expenses);
- if you do innovate, take off the shelf systems that you can control (vendor must always be subordinate);
- if a new entrant appears boycott;
- if new entrant's efforts gain traction, raise regulatory challenges;
- if regulatory system doesn't belong to your lobbying organization, begin negotiations to work with vendor with hope that regulatory threats, or homegrown alternatives will be enough to tame demands of vendor.
If if the system isn't corrupt, then for the banking cartel to get in bed with a strong vendor, it takes customers switching loyalties to a competitor get things moving, and something like the Kubler Ross stages of grieving to get through.
Thats the key thing - the point of comparison is not only sub $100 tap and go transactions - the user experience is the same above this threshold.
2. NFC based transactions in Australia are not inherently tokenized (eg Suncorp aren't) and Apple Pay does offer a stronger security posture for the customer by side stepping issues of compromised POS systems.
Keep in mind Apple Pay can also work in online transactions, so the merchant's web site being compromised does not post facto expose your card details.
3. This behavior is par for the course for Australian banks. You might be too young to remember Bankcard, which was a cartel response by the Australian Banks to avoid ceding "control" to MasterCard & Visa when credit cards were introduced.
I am going to try this theory at my local gym. I really don't want to pay their membership so I am going to sue so I can install my ass on their equipment.
I think Apple should recognise the banks in Australia already have widely rolled out the infrastructure and their investment in the country would be much less. If they can get down to 5bps or event 8-10, I think Commbank would jump to do it and you'd see NAB and Westpac having to follow. Whatever ANZ have negotiated, I can only see the other banks having to fall in line as they will lose customers on this.
Well done on doing the research, unlike most people on this thread. Yes, the reason the banks have applied to the ACCC is so they can negotiate as a group. Without approval of the ACCC, this could be determined to be anti-competitive by other entities with an interest. They also want this to include negotiations with all third-party payment systems, particularly Android Pay and Samsung Pay. They do single out Apple's policies around Apple Pay for special attention, however.
They also allege, in the documentation, that Apple is being anti-competitive in not opening up the NFC antenna to other apps, while they seem perfectly happy to let anyone use Bluetooth, WiFi, or the cellular modem. They want to install their own apps to handle payments, rather than relying on the Apple Wallet. While making arguments about competition and technology, I think it's pretty clear they just don't want to pay Apple interchange fees.
They hold up what happened with negotiations in the US and UK as examples of what might happen here. It's basically a rant against letting market forces decide what they can do. Still, everyone loves capitalism until it happens to them.
For what it's worth, I do think Apple needs to be a bit more responsive to local markets in setting its fees, our bank interchange fees are significantly lower than in the US or the UK, but I don't really see the restrictions on access to NFC or the Apple Wallet as being anti-competitive.
In any event, if the ACCC approves the application, this does not mean they have ruled that Apple is anti-competitive, just that it is reasonable to allow the banks to negotiate as a block in this instance. I suspect (hope?) the language about access to NFC is just included as leverage, and that it will mostly be ignored. If they do push the access and third-party app issues, though, I hope they get laughed out of the hearing.
Just because Woolworths and Coles can't compete with Aldi's pricing they took Aldi to the court on the issue of the team members at POS serving customers sitting on a chair. Sounds funny!!! Laugh... I'm not stopping you.
Few years ago, Dicksmith, Harvey Norman, JB-Hi-Fi went to ACCC crying to stop the online retailers including eBay because they can't compete on price. By compete I meant rip off people. Well eBay is still here, Dicksmith is NOT.
So, why the banks would be different?
I don't know from where people get data? But I pay $6/month account fee and 19% on my credit card.
TX for the grammar correction
but really interbank fee is
nothing in comparison to profits from credit card interest.
The Australian MasterCard you are talking about does not offer any points and most people here are using CC that have points. Don't compare bad with bad. Compare the CC here to the US for example! Also this 20%+ interest does not include the yearly fee that for decent card that give you decent points can go up to over $250 per year and some charge over $500 too.
Apple fees are nothing in comparison to the local bank fees. Also note that the banks charging the seller and the buyer while Apple is only charging the seller.
Add to this the security that Apple provide. Just to give an example. My AMEX was replaced once and my Visa was replaced twice. I am 40 years in computers and I'm never using garbage on-line sites for purchases + my PC's are 100% secure. It is the nature of the bank security systems that are weak.
So without hesitation I would run to Apple Pay and that is what the banks here are fearing - people have enough of their messy treatment.
So yes it is a hypocrisy!
Is it "anti-competitive" for a restaurant to serve only the food that they themselves prepare? Is it "anti-competitive" for factory car dealers to only sell their own brand of automobile?
The why the fvck is it "anti-competitive" for a device payment service provider to only support their own payment app?
Apples offering is all about safer and more secure payments, and one that offers consumers a better choice.
If other banks around the world particular in the UK and US have embraced this technology then clearly the banks argument in Australia is all about them and not in the interests of anyone else.
i am shocked, disappointed and alarmed at this. Quite honestly, the Government should be holding the banks to account for stifling innovation and choice.
The banks should feel disgusted with themselves for trying to keep Australia in the dark ages of technology.
BankWest was becoming a hugely successful independent bank. ConBank (aka Commonwealth of Australia also known as Comm bank) bought them out. Swallowed up a competitor.
BankWest was becoming a hugely successful independent bank. ConBank (aka Commonwealth of Australia also known as Comm bank) bought them out. Swallowed up a competitor.
I hear you have a house to rent. I'll tell you what, I don't want to pay you rent, I want you you to pay me $100 a week to live in your house. That ok with you? When can can I move in?