Apple makes counterclaims in Caltech Wi-Fi lawsuit, settles in Siri-related Dot 23 case

Posted:
in General Discussion
Together, Apple and Broadcom have reportedly filed counterclaims against the California Institute of Technology, attacking the latter's Wi-Fi patent lawsuit on several grounds. Separately, Apple and Dot 23 have settled a lawsuit over Siri.




In the Caltech case -- revolving around IRA codes in 802.11n and 802.11ac Wi-Fi -- Apple asserts that Caltech didn't file its lawsuit until May 26 this year, over six years after the 802.11n standard was published and hence too late to collect damages, according to MacRumors. Caltech also allegedly failed to disclose prior art for its patents, with Apple arguing that RA codes were well-established prior to IRA.

Caltech doesn't make, use, or sell any products that involve claims in the patents, Apple further charges.

Apple and Broadcom are not only denying infringement of the four U.S. patents in the Caltech suit, but asking the court to invalidate them. Caltech has claimed that various iPhone, iPad, and Mac models make use of its technology, as well as other Apple products -- Broadcom is a major Wi-Fi module supplier.

Dot 23, meanwhile, has filed to dismiss its case against Apple, saying it's settled out of court. The terms of the agreement -- including amounts owed -- have not been made public.

The patent-holding firm first launched its suit against Apple in January, contending that Siri's voice dialing and geoleocation features were infringing three patents. It also named the iPhone 4, 5, and 6 as violating devices, and called for unspecified damage compensation along with interest and fees.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 9
    mtbnutmtbnut Posts: 198member
    Caltech endowments running dry?
    mike1jbdragonlatifbp
  • Reply 2 of 9
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,246member
    mtbnut said:
    Caltech endowments running dry?
    California is a expensive state with a whole lot of Illegals draining the system while people with money that can move are fleeing. Then you have students that are so far left, they're driving away Republican speakers from even speaking. So no free speech other then their own!!! That turns away a lot of people with money that these schools may have gotten. I could go on, but it is, what it is.
    cyberzombielatifbp[Deleted User]
  • Reply 3 of 9
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,526moderator
    The pattern in these cases holds a certain implication.  That Apple plays fairly, settling when their own read of a patent indicates they are actually infringing all, or part, of the patent, and fighting when they feel they are either not infringing or when they feel the licensing demands are outsized.  With a company as large as Apple, innovating in many aspects on their products, there's bound to be some patents they don't review as they're doing R&D and engineering.  That's normal and so you'd expect a big company like Apple to be found to infringe a patent here and there.  It's how they handle those situations that tells you a lot about the company and its management.  I'd say Apple tries to conduct itself in a respectful manner toward patent holders who have solid inventions that are actually new and novel.  
  • Reply 4 of 9
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,423member
    The pattern in these cases holds a certain implication.  That Apple plays fairly, settling when their own read of a patent indicates they are actually infringing all, or part, of the patent, and fighting when they feel they are either not infringing or when they feel the licensing demands are outsized.  With a company as large as Apple, innovating in many aspects on their products, there's bound to be some patents they don't review as they're doing R&D and engineering.  That's normal and so you'd expect a big company like Apple to be found to infringe a patent here and there.  It's how they handle those situations that tells you a lot about the company and its management.  I'd say Apple tries to conduct itself in a respectful manner toward patent holders who have solid inventions that are actually new and novel.  
    FWIW it's been mentioned in several court cases that Apple does not respond to 3rd party patent licensing offers, and it has been reported that it's actually Apple policy not to acknowledge them until they become legal claims of infringement. I would imagine that Apple is not the only big company that ignores patent claims until they reach the point of lawsuits. They probably receive hundreds or thousands of claims every year but I'd bet most small IP owners wouldn't have the resources to go after a company as big as Microsoft, Apple or Google. 
    edited August 2016 singularityrevenant[Deleted User]
  • Reply 5 of 9
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    The pattern in these cases holds a certain implication.  That Apple plays fairly, settling when their own read of a patent indicates they are actually infringing all, or part, of the patent, and fighting when they feel they are either not infringing or when they feel the licensing demands are outsized.  With a company as large as Apple, innovating in many aspects on their products, there's bound to be some patents they don't review as they're doing R&D and engineering.  That's normal and so you'd expect a big company like Apple to be found to infringe a patent here and there.  It's how they handle those situations that tells you a lot about the company and its management.  I'd say Apple tries to conduct itself in a respectful manner toward patent holders who have solid inventions that are actually new and novel.  
    Did Apple's PR department write that for you?
    singularity
  • Reply 6 of 9
    yoyo2222yoyo2222 Posts: 144member
    jbdragon said:
    mtbnut said:
    Caltech endowments running dry?
    California is a expensive state with a whole lot of Illegals draining the system while people with money that can move are fleeing. Then you have students that are so far left, they're driving away Republican speakers from even speaking. So no free speech other then their own!!! That turns away a lot of people with money that these schools may have gotten. I could go on, but it is, what it is.
    1) CalTech is a private school so why would people fleeing the state (which isn't true) have anything to do with anything.
    2) California's economy is growing faster than 44 other states and has just passed France as the 6th largest economy in the world. From Bloomberg (6/2016):

    "California grew by 4.1 percent in 2015, compared with a 2.4 percent increase for the U.S. and 1.1 percent for France, Asmundson said.

    Last year, California created the most jobs of any state, more than the second- and third-most-populous states Florida and Texas combined. Four of the world’s 10 largest companies are based in California, including Alphabet Inc. and Facebook."

    How is your, I assume Republican infested, state doing?

    singularitylatifbp[Deleted User]
  • Reply 7 of 9
    loquiturloquitur Posts: 133member
    Ah, ye olde principal of "laches", the hey-you-cannot-lay-in-wait-longer-than-six-years thing.

    Other than that, universities, being NPE's (non-practicing entities) vs. PAE's (patent assertion entities)
    are a different breed of troll.   What's really not right here is that Cal Tech likely did not participate
    in the 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac/alphabetic soup standards committees, preferring to be a "patent holdout"
    with their special "secret sauce".   So chip makers like Broadcom etc. can enter into FRAND licensing with the
    standards-based patent pool, but are subject to being victimized by the ones not participating in the pools,
    the ones who "lay-in-wait".

    Further, Apple is the WiFi chip "user", so you might think that they are indemnified by the chip maker.
    But oh no, patents cover "make, sell, and *use*", so the deep pockets entity is also targeted,
    as are just plain WiFi users like you and me who can also be sued.
    edited August 2016 cyberzombielatifbp
  • Reply 8 of 9
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,085member
    loquitur said:
    Ah, ye olde principal of "laches", the hey-you-cannot-lay-in-wait-longer-than-six-years thing.

    Other than that, universities, being NPE's (non-practicing entities) vs. PAE's (patent assertion entities)
    are a different breed of troll.   What's really not right here is that Cal Tech likely did not participate
    in the 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac/alphabetic soup standards committees, preferring to be a "patent holdout"
    with their special "secret sauce".   So chip makers like Broadcom etc. can enter into FRAND licensing with the
    standards-based patent pool, but are subject to being victimized by the ones not participating in the pools,
    the ones who "lay-in-wait".

    Further, Apple is the WiFi chip "user", so you might think that they are indemnified by the chip maker.
    But oh no, patents cover "make, sell, and *use*", so the deep pockets entity is also targeted,
    as are just plain WiFi users like you and me who can also be sued.
    thank you for this post.  it answered my questions about how CalTech could be a troll.  it still seams strange to me.
  • Reply 9 of 9
    peteopeteo Posts: 402member
    jbdragon said:
    mtbnut said:
    Caltech endowments running dry?
    California is a expensive state with a whole lot of Illegals draining the system while people with money that can move are fleeing. Then you have students that are so far left, they're driving away Republican speakers from even speaking. So no free speech other then their own!!! That turns away a lot of people with money that these schools may have gotten. I could go on, but it is, what it is.
    haha Love it. State finally has a balanced budget and a "surplus"  and the repubs are whining. Just goes to show that trickle down crap does not work
    latifbp
Sign In or Register to comment.