Apple has interesting issue with this also. USB-C is already being adopted by other Android phones. MacBook uses USB-C. Probably MacBook Pro can have USB-C ports also. USB-C is small enough for iPhone... then.. why should they keep the two standard? Ligthing and USB-C? If they choose only one, for example, USB-C, those audio devices can be hooked up with iPhone and Mac ( and iPad). Are they going to ditch lighting port for USB-C? Or they will wait for a few years until customers replace their peripherals using Thunderbolt (mini display port) to USB-C (with Thunderbolt 3 protocol) and then ditch lightning port on iDevices with USB-C eventually?
Regardless of what we want, why Apple would use Lightning should be obvious: MFi.
Additionally, we can't say that USB-C is small enough for the iPhone, because we don't know what Apple plans to do in the future with the iPhone and we know that USB-C is thicker than Lightning. Personally, I'd like to see headphones use the same standard across the board, but I'm a single consumer, and if we're stating things we want a private company to do to suit my own needs there are great number of other things that come first.
I would expect USB-C to come to Macs and to replace the USB-A and mini-DP (aka Thunderbolt) ports, since it's a single port that can carry the same data without any drawbacks. I would also expect a Lightning port, but maybe they don't think that's important enough and will offer a USB-C-to-Lighnting (and a USB-C-to-3.5mm) adapter for those that will want to connect wired headphones to their Macs. I think this depends on how popular that is.
There are certainly many other tertiary considerations, like USB-C durability compared to Lightning as a connector, but in my experience USB-C seems better.
Lightning on PCs is not required, as long as Apple adds a lighting to jack adapter to the iPhone Box – which they most likely would do, so people can use lighting headphones on their PCs as well.
Do you honestly think that that approach is even remotely acceptable? More adapters? That's not ok for the average human, at all.
Well, Apple certainly appears as an adapter company. Who else can compete with Apple in this arena?
Lightning on PCs is not required, as long as Apple adds a lighting to jack adapter to the iPhone Box – which they most likely would do, so people can use lighting headphones on their PCs as well.
They are not going to include the adapter. It will be an optional purchase. Quite frankly, not everyone needs the adapter...quite frankly, most do not need the adapter. The phone will ship with Lightning EarPods.
Apple isn't going to giveaway an expensive adapter that most recipients simply do not need. You way overestimate how Apple cares about whether or not you can use their Made-Specifically-For-iPhone EarPods, with PCs. Or even Macs.
It's not even debatable. Just run the numbers. How many iPhone 7 will ship? How many of those people even own a Mac? 5%? 10%? They're gonna give away hundreds of millions of adapters to people without Macs? Possibly without PC's at all? If you think so, you simply don't know Apple...or you don't know how to separate your needs from the rest of the world.
I do see the point, and I think you're right with this argument. Actually, I don't care too much, and don't think this could be a big thing. The jack connector will be replaced at some point. Too old a technique. If it's not now, it will be soon enough.
no they wont, because that doesnt make any damned sense -- they could up-sell you on wireless buds today. better than the crap in the box, right? except people dont care, because most people just use whats in the box. it will continue to be the same.
This is different though. These are proprietary headphones that only work with iOS devices. It will force people to either buy an expensive adapter or have another set of headphones for all the devices they have that don't have a lightning port. That's a pretty shitty user experience.
or, just use what's in the box. I don't own a pair of (other) headphones that use 3.5mm. and soon, neither will a bunch of other people. and the world will keep turning.
those who want to go wireless will. those who don't care won't. most consumers of iPhones aren't techies and aren't going to freak out.
you still dont get it. it almost certainly has little to nothing to do w/ lighting or wireless headphones, and almost certainly to do w/ what more they can accomplish in the very close confines of the iphone. whether that be new bi-directional communication w/ headphone accessories, added space for components, waterproofing (and not like the fake, failed waterproofing by Samsung which surprise, isnt waterproof), etc...
its not about selling you some damn headphones. jesus. wake up.
Aside from making the phone more water resistant (no phones are waterproof) I would argue people will care way more about the headphone jack being gone than any of these other so-called benefits. Maybe if there's a significant improvement in battery life but that doesn't seem likely.
talk about arguing from a position of ignorance -- you 1) don't know what the advantages are, but 2) are certain people aren't going to like them. uh huh.
Aside from making the phone more water resistant (no phones are waterproof) I would argue people will care way more about the headphone jack being gone than any of these other so-called benefits. Maybe if there's a significant improvement in battery life but that doesn't seem likely.
talk about arguing from a position of ignorance -- you 1) don't know what the advantages be, but 2) are certain people aren't going to like them. uh huh.
Same as you arguing people will just accept this and move on because, Apple.
This is different though. These are proprietary headphones that only work with iOS devices. It will force people to either buy an expensive adapter or have another set of headphones for all the devices they have that don't have a lightning port. That's a pretty shitty user experience.
or, just use what's in the box. I don't own a pair of headphones that use 3.5mm. and soon, neither will a bunch of other people. and the world will keep turning.
those who want to go wireless will. those who don't care won't. most consumers of iPhones aren't techies and aren't going to freak out.
Ah, makes sense now. You don't own headphones that use the jack. It won't impact you therefore it's not a big deal and no one else will care.
talk about arguing from a position of ignorance -- you 1) don't know what the advantages be, but 2) are certain people aren't going to like them. uh huh.
Same as you arguing people will just accept this and move on because, Apple.
nope -- because it's what they're doing *today*. that's what you refuse to admit. most people just use what's in the box, and that's a fact. these people will. not. care.
I'm arguing from what people actually do today. you're arguing to fulfill your concern troll fantasies.
its what you always do. you're so certain these guys are out to get you, out to screw you, that they don't know what they're doing, etc etc. it's all troll trope nonsense. you'd be right at home on MR.
or, just use what's in the box. I don't own a pair of headphones that use 3.5mm. and soon, neither will a bunch of other people. and the world will keep turning.
those who want to go wireless will. those who don't care won't. most consumers of iPhones aren't techies and aren't going to freak out.
Ah, makes sense now. You don't own headphones that use the jack. It won't impact you therefore it's not a big deal and no one else will care.
you're starting to get it -- your use case is atypical. mine is typical. Apple doesn't cater to outlier use cases, it caters to the majority of consumers. one day you'll get this thru your head.
Ah, makes sense now. You don't own headphones that use the jack. It won't impact you therefore it's not a big deal and no one else will care.
Apple doesn't cater to outlier use cases, it caters to the majority of consumers. one day you'll get this thru your head.
Apple's modus operandi disagrees with that statement. They have a long history of making major changes that 1) people aren't expecting, and 2) require customers to adopt to their changes. Perhaps the oldest and most famous is when Apple added USB-A 1.0 ports to everything and dropped serial and parallel ports when hardly anyone had any USB-based peripherals. In hindsight, I'm happy they used in this change that would have otherwise taken another 5, 15, or more years before we saw adoption. They do this all the time.
As previously stated, my one contention with Lightning over the 3.5mm jack, isn't that the 3.5mm jack is being deprecated, but that Lightning isn't a universal port interface. At least with the mini-Display Port, they offered it up as a free license to Display Port to use. Perhaps we'll see that Apple will allow FREE use in their MFi program for headphone manufacturers, providing it's just for headphones, but that still doesn't resolve the issue for interchangeable headphones across platforms that will be moving to USB-C.
Well, saving $ on components to bring 3.5mm audio output will be a lot to Apple, though.
1) You really think their motivation is simply to save the cost of 3.5mm headphone jack?
2) All the other components are just being moved into the headphone cable so no cost savings there; in fact, one could argue that this make these components more costly for being in the cable end. We can get into those reasons if you'd like.
3a) There is also a cost for using a male Lightning port connector on ALL headphones included with EVERY iPhone instead of the much simpler 3.5mm jack that has been around for more decades than either of us have been alive. That along makes me think this will have a higher direct cost.
3b) Because the Lightning port is a complex connector there is more chance for it to stop working properly between the chips and connector in the headphone connector. I'm guessing that the 3.5mm connector gets plugged/unplugged considerably more than one does with charging, and I still get Lightning cables that wear and need to be replaced because the contacts wear a bit too much, which will have a cost for Apple if these need to be replaced more often under warranty.
Thanks for listing 3 reasons not to switch to Lightning only.
Ah, makes sense now. You don't own headphones that use the jack. It won't impact you therefore it's not a big deal and no one else will care.
you're starting to get it -- your use case is atypical. mine is typical. Apple doesn't cater to outlier use cases, it caters to the majority of consumers. one day you'll get this thru your head.
So the 3.5mm headphone jack is an outlier use case? You're seriously saying this with a straight face?
Typical Apple. Removing ports and adding adapters. When Apple decided to remove optical drives that at least made sense. The removal of optical drives made room to do one of two things make a device considerably thinner or add space for a larger battery. Any benefit of removing a 3.5mm jack is negated by having to use an adapter.
Adapters are not a permanent solution. They are transitional until you upgrade to the new port. When you buy a pair of Lightning headphones you'll no longer need the adapter.
Typical Apple. Removing ports and adding adapters. When Apple decided to remove optical drives that at least made sense. The removal of optical drives made room to do one of two things make a device considerably thinner or add space for a larger battery. Any benefit of removing a 3.5mm jack is negated by having to use an adapter.
no it isnt. i dont have any plans to use an adapter whatsoever. none. thus, ill reap only the benefits of the change, whatever they may be.
Which means you'll be using some garbage BT headphones. Make no mistake BT headphones are garbage. Besides doesn't matter you think everything Apple does is awesome. Tim Cook could take a crap on your wrist and call it the new Apple Watch and you would think it's awesome.
Apple doesn't cater to outlier use cases, it caters to the majority of consumers. one day you'll get this thru your head.
Apple's modus operandi disagrees with that statement. They have a long history of making major changes that 1) people aren't expecting, and 2) require customers to adopt to their changes. Perhaps the oldest and most famous is when Apple added USB-A 1.0 ports to everything and dropped serial and parallel ports when hardly anyone had any USB-based peripherals. In hindsight, I'm happy they used in this change that would have otherwise taken another 5, 15, or more years before we saw adoption. They do this all the time.
As previously stated, my one contention with Lightning over the 3.5mm jack, isn't that the 3.5mm jack is being deprecated, but that Lightning isn't a universal port interface. At least with the mini-Display Port, they offered it up as a free license to Display Port to use. Perhaps we'll see that Apple will allow FREE use in their MFi program for headphone manufacturers, providing it's just for headphones, but that still doesn't resolve the issue for interchangeable headphones across platforms that will be moving to USB-C.
All of your problems are solved if you buy wireless headphones with hybrid/interchangeable cables. BlueTooth is the standard for audio, not Lightning, not USB-C. Why should I give up an investment of 4 years of accumulated Lightning cables and accessories, just to switch to USB-C, and still have to buy an adapter to use my old headphones? The only solution that makes any sense is wireless. hard wired data port connections will not be standardized for years, by which time wireless will be at a level so as to make wired connections obsolete. And unless everyone, everywhere, replaces all of their 3.5mm only gear, adapters will be around for many, many years, regardless of what digital port becomes the new audio standard.
Well, saving $ on components to bring 3.5mm audio output will be a lot to Apple, though.
1) You really think their motivation is simply to save the cost of 3.5mm headphone jack?
2) All the other components are just being moved into the headphone cable so no cost savings there; in fact, one could argue that this make these components more costly for being in the cable end. We can get into those reasons if you'd like.
3a) There is also a cost for using a male Lightning port connector on ALL headphones included with EVERY iPhone instead of the much simpler 3.5mm jack that has been around for more decades than either of us have been alive. That along makes me think this will have a higher direct cost.
3b) Because the Lightning port is a complex connector there is more chance for it to stop working properly between the chips and connector in the headphone connector. I'm guessing that the 3.5mm connector gets plugged/unplugged considerably more than one does with charging, and I still get Lightning cables that wear and need to be replaced because the contacts wear a bit too much, which will have a cost for Apple if these need to be replaced more often under warranty.
1) That is one motivation, but not the only motivation, or the most significant.
2) Demand and volume.
3a) At first the cost will absolutely be higher. But demand will eventually lower costs across the industry making digital headphones less expensive.
3b) Beats presently makes wireless headphones in which the entire digital side can be bypassed and used as analogue. I wouldn't buy a pair of Lightning headphones that didn't have interchangeable cables to use with them, including an analogue option. So if the headphone circuitry ever go bad outside of the warranty, I'd just keep using them with an adapter. Even better if the technology is in the cable, then I could just buy a new cable. But you could say that for noise cancelling headphones too, or any headphones for that matter. Just because something is digital doesn't mean there are necessarily more chances for it to go bad. As for your final argument about the durability of the Lightning connector, well you're just guessing based on your own biases. I probably plug and unplug my iPhone more times a day than anyone does with their headphones. I have Lightning docks at home, in the car, and at work. When I'm not using my iPhone, it's on the dock. I must have tens of thousands of plugs and unpluggings on the phone, and the docks. Ive never once had a problem in 4 years of using them. But I have had many problems with 3.5mm headphone jacks over the years. Loose connectors, poor contacts, frayed wiring, static, noise, hum. Never once had a problem with that using audio over Lightning, nor with any Lightning cable or connector I've ever had. In fact I love the assumption that Apple didn't do any testing whatsoever on the Lightning connector when they invented it -- that they just put it into manufacture without know how a connector which would be used dozens a times a day, would wear over time. You should probably apply for a job at Apple if you believe that, because they could really use a guy like you.
Do you honestly think that that approach is even remotely acceptable? More adapters? That's not ok for the average human, at all.
Well, Apple certainly appears as an adapter company. Who else can compete with Apple in this arena?
I don't praise Apple left and right just because it is Apple. I love, enjoy and use SOME of their products and support SOME decisions, as shown by this thread. I inform myself. This means that I have absolutely no patience for irrational Apple haters and irrational Apple fanboys.
Apple isn't the adapter company. They are the company that moves tech forward. Sometimes it is easy, sometimes it isn't. They deserve the benefit of doubt, here, despite making some stupid, pathetic and questionable decisions on other areas.
Answer this, please: The iPod was released in 2001 with the 30 pin connector, right? Since then, how many connectors did Apple use on their iDevices devices? What about their competitors, between mp3 players, to phones, to smartphones, to tablets?
With all their billions, influence and pedigree, Apple must be held to a higher standard and I'm the first one to call BS on BS, unlike lots of users here, that will defend them no matter what, even when painfully obvious they are wrong, because it seems like Apple's current profit margins are their success, even if it means obliterating their own future business on the longer run. However, Apple has been nothing short of stellar while dealing with these ports and "standards". While people are discussing what USB-C even means, 200 million iOS devices were already sold with lightning.
Here's something no one seems to be discussing. The lightning port is far more delicate than the 3.5 jack. The more delicate port will now have to support both charging and headphones. Many people have had issues where the headphones or phone catches on something and breaks the jack etc. When that happens you have a fully functional phone except for the earphones. If this happens with lightning headphones you've just broken your ONLY port. No more charging, no more syncing nothing till you can get it fixed. You will now have a very expensive brick until it can be fixe. That's a big negative to me.
Here's something no one seems to be discussing. The lightning port is far more delicate than the 3.5 jack. The more delicate port will now have to support both charging and headphones. Many people have had issues where the headphones or phone catches on something and breaks the jack etc. When that happens you have a fully functional phone except for the earphones. If this happens with lightning headphones you've just broken your ONLY port. No more charging, no more syncing nothing till you can get it fixed. You will now have a very expensive brick until it can be fixe. That's a big negative to me.
No it's not. I've yet to see or read about a broken Lightning port. I have in fact broken 3.5mm ports, but one reason for that is the headphone jack is embedded deep into the devices it's plugged into and does not easily come out. Lightning on the other hand is a shallow connection, that is held securely in place to avoid accidental separation, but when force is applied tends to pop out. If the Lightning cable is bend at a right angle hard enough to break, I'll bet the Lightning plug will snap before the port is destroyed. I believe YouTube videos demonstrating the Apple Pencil being broken off demonstrated that.
Add to that, if this really is a problem, and I doubt it will be as a result of the different mechanics, the phone won't be an "expensive brick" as it will have wireless capability to sync. Of course if the port is damaged then charging will be an issue. But again, I've never seen this problem documented in any significant way, and at least there will be other ways to get data and audio out of the phone should the port ever be damaged for any reason, buying the user some time to get it fixed.
... However, this will bring interesting topic to people who use iPhone to broadcast, record audio for interviewing and so on. Recently I had a chance to search what kind option there were for recording better audio, and shotgun mics, condenser mics, wireless mics.. all of them used 3.5mm audio jack. ...
While it's true that most mics are analog, "all" of those mics you are looking for don't have 3.5mm. For one thing, you are much more likely to find XLR and 1/4" TRS on mics for pro applications.
The other thing is that you did not do a very good search. A quick google revealed more than a few good lightning connected mics:
Those last two are quite interesting. They are both measurement mics. One is a Type 1 certified microphone, calibrated to NIST traceable standards. The other is a lot cheaper and is the one that I personally use for small theater sound system tuning.
Comments
Additionally, we can't say that USB-C is small enough for the iPhone, because we don't know what Apple plans to do in the future with the iPhone and we know that USB-C is thicker than Lightning. Personally, I'd like to see headphones use the same standard across the board, but I'm a single consumer, and if we're stating things we want a private company to do to suit my own needs there are great number of other things that come first.
I would expect USB-C to come to Macs and to replace the USB-A and mini-DP (aka Thunderbolt) ports, since it's a single port that can carry the same data without any drawbacks. I would also expect a Lightning port, but maybe they don't think that's important enough and will offer a USB-C-to-Lighnting (and a USB-C-to-3.5mm) adapter for those that will want to connect wired headphones to their Macs. I think this depends on how popular that is.
There are certainly many other tertiary considerations, like USB-C durability compared to Lightning as a connector, but in my experience USB-C seems better.
I do see the point, and I think you're right with this argument. Actually, I don't care too much, and don't think this could be a big thing. The jack connector will be replaced at some point. Too old a technique. If it's not now, it will be soon enough.
those who want to go wireless will. those who don't care won't. most consumers of iPhones aren't techies and aren't going to freak out.
talk about arguing from a position of ignorance -- you 1) don't know what the advantages are, but 2) are certain people aren't going to like them. uh huh.
Ah, makes sense now. You don't own headphones that use the jack. It won't impact you therefore it's not a big deal and no one else will care.
I'm arguing from what people actually do today. you're arguing to fulfill your concern troll fantasies.
its what you always do. you're so certain these guys are out to get you, out to screw you, that they don't know what they're doing, etc etc. it's all troll trope nonsense. you'd be right at home on MR.
you're starting to get it -- your use case is atypical. mine is typical. Apple doesn't cater to outlier use cases, it caters to the majority of consumers. one day you'll get this thru your head.
As previously stated, my one contention with Lightning over the 3.5mm jack, isn't that the 3.5mm jack is being deprecated, but that Lightning isn't a universal port interface. At least with the mini-Display Port, they offered it up as a free license to Display Port to use. Perhaps we'll see that Apple will allow FREE use in their MFi program for headphone manufacturers, providing it's just for headphones, but that still doesn't resolve the issue for interchangeable headphones across platforms that will be moving to USB-C.
1) That is one motivation, but not the only motivation, or the most significant.
2) Demand and volume.
3a) At first the cost will absolutely be higher. But demand will eventually lower costs across the industry making digital headphones less expensive.
3b) Beats presently makes wireless headphones in which the entire digital side can be bypassed and used as analogue. I wouldn't buy a pair of Lightning headphones that didn't have interchangeable cables to use with them, including an analogue option. So if the headphone circuitry ever go bad outside of the warranty, I'd just keep using them with an adapter. Even better if the technology is in the cable, then I could just buy a new cable. But you could say that for noise cancelling headphones too, or any headphones for that matter. Just because something is digital doesn't mean there are necessarily more chances for it to go bad. As for your final argument about the durability of the Lightning connector, well you're just guessing based on your own biases. I probably plug and unplug my iPhone more times a day than anyone does with their headphones. I have Lightning docks at home, in the car, and at work. When I'm not using my iPhone, it's on the dock. I must have tens of thousands of plugs and unpluggings on the phone, and the docks. Ive never once had a problem in 4 years of using them. But I have had many problems with 3.5mm headphone jacks over the years. Loose connectors, poor contacts, frayed wiring, static, noise, hum. Never once had a problem with that using audio over Lightning, nor with any Lightning cable or connector I've ever had. In fact I love the assumption that Apple didn't do any testing whatsoever on the Lightning connector when they invented it -- that they just put it into manufacture without know how a connector which would be used dozens a times a day, would wear over time. You should probably apply for a job at Apple if you believe that, because they could really use a guy like you.
This means that I have absolutely no patience for irrational Apple haters and irrational Apple fanboys.
Apple isn't the adapter company. They are the company that moves tech forward. Sometimes it is easy, sometimes it isn't. They deserve the benefit of doubt, here, despite making some stupid, pathetic and questionable decisions on other areas.
Answer this, please: The iPod was released in 2001 with the 30 pin connector, right? Since then, how many connectors did Apple use on their iDevices devices? What about their competitors, between mp3 players, to phones, to smartphones, to tablets?
With all their billions, influence and pedigree, Apple must be held to a higher standard and I'm the first one to call BS on BS, unlike lots of users here, that will defend them no matter what, even when painfully obvious they are wrong, because it seems like Apple's current profit margins are their success, even if it means obliterating their own future business on the longer run. However, Apple has been nothing short of stellar while dealing with these ports and "standards". While people are discussing what USB-C even means, 200 million iOS devices were already sold with lightning.
Add to that, if this really is a problem, and I doubt it will be as a result of the different mechanics, the phone won't be an "expensive brick" as it will have wireless capability to sync. Of course if the port is damaged then charging will be an issue. But again, I've never seen this problem documented in any significant way, and at least there will be other ways to get data and audio out of the phone should the port ever be damaged for any reason, buying the user some time to get it fixed.
The other thing is that you did not do a very good search. A quick google revealed more than a few good lightning connected mics:
http://www.shure.com/americas/motiv/overview
https://www.zoom-na.com/products/handy-recorder/zoom-iq7-professional-stereo-microphone-ios
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/clipmic-digital-mobile-recording
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/mic
http://www.bluemic.com/products/spark-digital/
http://www.audiocontrol.com/pro-audio/mobile-solutions/iprecisionmic/
http://www.audiocontrol.com/pro-audio/mobile-solutions/sa-4100i/
Those last two are quite interesting. They are both measurement mics. One is a Type 1 certified microphone, calibrated to NIST traceable standards. The other is a lot cheaper and is the one that I personally use for small theater sound system tuning.