Reported Samsung Pay flaw lets thieves remotely collect credit card credentials

Posted:
in General Discussion
Samsung Pay's legacy point-of-sale system compatibility mode may be insecure, as a token theft and remote use vulnerability was demonstrated by a security researcher at the Black Hat conference.




The potential security flaw, demonstrated by security analyst Salvador Mendoza at the Black Hat security conference, relies on Samsung's "magnetic secure transmission" central to Samsung Pay's ability to work at existing magnetic stripe point-of-sale terminals. The data that is sent to a regular point of sale terminal by an Android phone using Samsung Pay to emulate a magnetic stripe scan appears to be collectible at short ranges by specialty hardware.

A proof of concept magnetic hardware capture device was demonstrated by Mendoza at the conference. His prototype build was strapped to his arm, and forwarded intercepted tokens to an email address. The prototype is also sufficiently small to be hidden inside a point of sale terminal.

Following the hack being demonstrated by Mendoza and a remote colleague making a purchase with magnetic spoofing hardware from a pilfered token transmitted to Mexico, Samsung denied the researcher's claim in a very brief statement.

Mendoza also postulates that data collected can be utilized to make educated guesses at a parent credit card number over time, but did not demonstrate that ability.



In the denial amplified on Tuesday, Samsung reiterated that while it is possible to intercept a token and use it for a payment, the conditions that have to be met are very specific, and hard to orchestrate. As with Apple Pay, a token generated by the pay system is single-use. In addition to the magnetic capture requirements, the attacker would have to use the token before the originating transaction completes.

Users also get immediate notification of a Samsung Pay transaction, so a fraudulent token capture and use could be blocked
immediately by the authorized user.

Despite all the denials, Samsung claims that the skimming attack which results in a token relay to a third party is a "known issue" and is an "acceptable" potential risk, given the difficulty of executing the attack.



Fraud with Apple Pay has been in the other direction, with Apple Pay once the venue for fraud, instead of customer data stolen as a result of use of it. Around the launch of Apple's service, criminals used stolen credit card data from other breaches, and entered the data into Apple Pay, for payments in stores.

Apple Pay does not have a legacy point of sale terminal compatibility mode, and is relying instead in part on mandated shifts to credit card processing machines in the U.S. to assist with vendor acceptance. Furthermore, since launch in 2015, data source authentication by Apple Pay issuing banks has tightened.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 40
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,301member
    So the NFC part of Android Pay is fine just like Apple Pay but, if you're sophisticated enough to go through the extremely difficult task of building something like this you may be able to get one payment in for fraud that will ultimately be reversed because of instant notification. Gotcha.
    cnocbuimike1htatc
  • Reply 2 of 40
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Seems to me the headline to this article is at best misleading, at worst just flat-out wrong. Credit card credentials are not lifted with this method; it’s a tokenised representation of the card (as also used by Apple Pay) that is single-use only.
    cnocbuinetmagehtatc
  • Reply 3 of 40
    The "magnetic secure transmission" is a bogus adhock feature that relies on the flawed design of magnetic card readers.
    Merchants should not allow it and Samsung should discontinue the feature.
    If a thief steals an unlocked Samsung phone, they could pay for a lot of stuff since no authentication is needed at the POS.
    caliradarthekatigorskymagman1979
  • Reply 4 of 40
    Worked for First Data for nearly 5 years. Largest transaction processing company in the world and handled Samsung, Android, and Apple Pay. Tried to explain to people a million times that the mag strip purchases, even with Samsung Pay, we're not a secure as the tokenized and encrypted NFC payments with Touch ID. There's a reason Apple left that technology out. It's dated and much easier to hack. Can't wait for Apple Pay to hit websites. Then I can use it for all my online shopping since some apps still haven't intergraded it yet. 
    slprescottcalipscooter63schwabsauceredgeminipacapasicumnetmagemagman1979
  • Reply 5 of 40
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    supadav03 said:
    Worked for First Data for nearly 5 years. Largest transaction processing company in the world and handled Samsung, Android, and Apple Pay. Tried to explain to people a million times that the mag strip purchases, even with Samsung Pay, we're not a secure as the tokenized and encrypted NFC payments with Touch ID. There's a reason Apple left that technology out. It's dated and much easier to hack. Can't wait for Apple Pay to hit websites. Then I can use it for all my online shopping since some apps still haven't intergraded it yet. 

    True 

    p.s. Why do yo have Chibi Robi as your pic?
  • Reply 6 of 40
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    I guess the proof of concept is new, but I think most people in (or close to) the technology field knew 1) the magnetic stripe data isn't secured, and 2) transmitting it a contactless payment makes it even less secure. 

    That said, even though NFC is inarguably more secure, I doubt anyone of us has been able to forego carrying physIcal cards*, so the threat of skimmers is still an issue, which are already exist and would still be usable with that aspect of Samsung Pay.

    * I can make trips without a physical card knowing that I'll be able to use Apple Pay at certain locations, and I probably use Apple Pay a good 10–20x a week, but we are still far from that tipping point of a certain percentage of a population being able to leave all physical cards are home, and therefore truly reaching a new level of personal protection against thieves.
  • Reply 7 of 40
    So the NFC part of Android Pay is fine just like Apple Pay but, if you're sophisticated enough to go through the extremely difficult task of building something like this you may be able to get one payment in for fraud that will ultimately be reversed because of instant notification. Gotcha.
    That reply is naive and apologist to such a level that it could only have been astroturfed.

    This wouldn't be a problem if NFC mobile payment was widely supported in USA & UK - which it is not.

    The loop technology is inherently flawed, by transmitting the magnetic field rather than having it read from a stripe card invites interception. Stealing a token is also particularly grave since token transactions are granted a higher transaction authority (such as max transaction limit, rather than a static mag card limit), the token can also be used to immediately withdraw cash from a debit account, and due to tokens being more secure the bank is unlikely to grant a swift reprieve - since it looks like you're the one who did the withdraw.

    Also trying to downplay the flaw as requiring hardware that is "extremely difficult" to build is entirely ignorant to the very real and very frequent problem of card skimming. The hardware required for this hack is not dissimilar to existing skimming devices - in fact it's novel because it can now be achieved wirelessly.

    Samsung's response is also a problem, you can't sweep a security flaw under the rug and expect organised crime to ignore it.
    edited August 2016 jcs2305pscooter63Rayz2016brucemcbigapplepieguyredgeminipacapasicumnetmageigorsky
  • Reply 8 of 40
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    So the NFC part of Android Pay is fine just like Apple Pay but, if you're sophisticated enough to go through the extremely difficult task of building something like this you may be able to get one payment in for fraud that will ultimately be reversed because of instant notification. Gotcha.
    That reply is naive and apologist to such a level that it could only have been astroturfed.

    This wouldn't be a problem if NFC mobile payment was widely supported in USA & UK - which it is not.

    The loop technology is inherently flawed, by transmitting the magnetic field rather than having it read from a stripe card invites interception. Stealing a token is also particularly grave since token transactions are granted a higher transaction authority (such as max transaction limit, rather than a static mag card limit), the token can also be used to immediately withdraw cash from a debit account, and due to tokens being more secure the bank is unlikely to grant a swift reprieve - since it looks like you're the one who did the withdraw.

    Also trying to downplay the flaw as requiring hardware that is "extremely difficult" to build is entirely ignorant to the very real and very frequent problem of card skimming. The hardware required for this hack is not dissimilar to existing skimming devices - in fact it's novel because it can now be achieved wirelessly.

    Samsung's response is also a problem, you can't sweep a security flaw under the rug and expect organised crime to ignore it.
    The reply was spot on.

    Why was Samsung's response a problem?  This so called security flaw quite obviously is extremely difficult to exploit and there will never be a single exploit using this in the wild, ever.  It is obviously completely impractical to impliment, given the degree of technical difficulty and the extremely low reward even if it were successful would provide no motive whatsoever.


  • Reply 9 of 40
    horvatichorvatic Posts: 144member
    Except that Samsung pay is not Apple pay and Samsung pay is the one under threat not Apple Pay. Apple Pay does not use any magnetic media period.
    Samsung is known for ignoring flaws and does not let consumers update there phones unless you buy a new one. Apple pay is secure.
    igorskyai46
  • Reply 10 of 40
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,301member
    So the NFC part of Android Pay is fine just like Apple Pay but, if you're sophisticated enough to go through the extremely difficult task of building something like this you may be able to get one payment in for fraud that will ultimately be reversed because of instant notification. Gotcha.
    That reply is naive and apologist to such a level that it could only have been astroturfed.

    This wouldn't be a problem if NFC mobile payment was widely supported in USA & UK - which it is not.

    The loop technology is inherently flawed, by transmitting the magnetic field rather than having it read from a stripe card invites interception. Stealing a token is also particularly grave since token transactions are granted a higher transaction authority (such as max transaction limit, rather than a static mag card limit), the token can also be used to immediately withdraw cash from a debit account, and due to tokens being more secure the bank is unlikely to grant a swift reprieve - since it looks like you're the one who did the withdraw.

    Also trying to downplay the flaw as requiring hardware that is "extremely difficult" to build is entirely ignorant to the very real and very frequent problem of card skimming. The hardware required for this hack is not dissimilar to existing skimming devices - in fact it's novel because it can now be achieved wirelessly.

    Samsung's response is also a problem, you can't sweep a security flaw under the rug and expect organised crime to ignore it.
    Ok, let's play your game. Given that mobile payments are extremely rare in the U.S., even for Apple Pay and Samsung Pay much much rare, it's still an impractical implementation for such a small reward. Of a criminal is going to go through all this effort to skim a card, they do it the old fashion way that's much more widely used. Hardly anyone makes mobile payments like Apple Pay or Android Pay and much less use this version of Samsung Pay.


  • Reply 11 of 40
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,301member
    horvatic said:
    Except that Samsung pay is not Apple pay and Samsung pay is the one under threat not Apple Pay. Apple Pay does not use any magnetic media period.
    Samsung is known for ignoring flaws and does not let consumers update there phones unless you buy a new one. Apple pay is secure.
    NFC payment's that include Apple Pay are secure. They all use the same standard token tech.
  • Reply 12 of 40
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    horvatic said:
    Except that Samsung pay is not Apple pay and Samsung pay is the one under threat not Apple Pay. Apple Pay does not use any magnetic media period.
    Samsung is known for ignoring flaws and does not let consumers update there phones unless you buy a new one. Apple pay is secure.
    NFC payment's that include Apple Pay are secure. They all use the same standard token tech.
    It's a tough sell to say anything is truly secure. In this scenario we can only point to technologies and implementations that are more secure than others. Remember that there are many layers to the transaction model.

    If the HW, mobile OS, financial institution are jeopardized then the security of the payment can be jeopardized, even with the token, referential card number, and small radius of NFC's magnetic loop. Additionally, if you through in an intermediary, like Google did with the launch of Google Wallet, Android Pay's predecessor, you then include another method by which consumer security can be jeopardized.

    Going beyond that, even if the transaction itself hasn't been hacked, it's still possible for retailers, apps, and/or hackers to get information on locations, stores, amounts per transactions, times and dates when a transaction may occur, and other data that can be used to manipulate the user, which is another way in which a system can be made insecure.
    capasicum
  • Reply 13 of 40
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    sirlance99 said:
    Ok, let's play your game. Given that mobile payments are extremely rare in the U.S., even for Apple Pay and Samsung Pay much much rare, it's still an impractical implementation for such a small reward. Of a criminal is going to go through all this effort to skim a card, they do it the old fashion way that's much more widely used. Hardly anyone makes mobile payments like Apple Pay or Android Pay and much less use this version of Samsung Pay.


    Christ on a bicycle, did you… did you just play the 'security through obscurity' card? 

    Wow, things went south pretty damn fast. :-(

    applepieguynetmagecapasicumradarthekatnolamacguymagman1979
  • Reply 14 of 40
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    So the NFC part of Android Pay is fine just like Apple Pay but, if you're sophisticated enough to go through the extremely difficult task of building something like this you may be able to get one payment in for fraud that will ultimately be reversed because of instant notification. Gotcha.
    That reply is naive and apologist to such a level that it could only have been astroturfed.

    This wouldn't be a problem if NFC mobile payment was widely supported in USA & UK - which it is not.

    The loop technology is inherently flawed, by transmitting the magnetic field rather than having it read from a stripe card invites interception. Stealing a token is also particularly grave since token transactions are granted a higher transaction authority (such as max transaction limit, rather than a static mag card limit), the token can also be used to immediately withdraw cash from a debit account, and due to tokens being more secure the bank is unlikely to grant a swift reprieve - since it looks like you're the one who did the withdraw.

    Also trying to downplay the flaw as requiring hardware that is "extremely difficult" to build is entirely ignorant to the very real and very frequent problem of card skimming. The hardware required for this hack is not dissimilar to existing skimming devices - in fact it's novel because it can now be achieved wirelessly.

    Samsung's response is also a problem, you can't sweep a security flaw under the rug and expect organised crime to ignore it.

    Mac observer has picked this up and thinks that for the most part that it isn't a problem… then went on to suggest why it might be a problem.

    http://www.macobserver.com/columns-opinions/editorial/samsung-pay-transaction-tokens-can-intercepted-its-cool/

    Since we already have card skimmers for ATMs, I don't think making one for magnetic readers would be all that difficult or expensive. But as Mr Chaffin points out, what if the device could use the token to create its own fraudulent transaction before the real reader? What would happen then? I'm guessing that the terminal would reject the genuine payment, and the customer and the sales bod would just try again. I don't think creating such a device would be that easy, but it would certainly be worth it to your tech-savvy fraudster. 

    And the screaming desperation of our two resident Samsung supporters doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, and neither did Samsung's response:

    This skimming attack model has been a known issue reviewed by the card networks and Samsung pay and our partners deemed this potential risk acceptable given the extremely low likelihood of a successful token relay attack. The card networks and issuers also run their fraud prevention algorithms on all payment attempts, including Samsung Pay. This serves as another layer of protection against token relay.

    'Potential risk acceptable'. Mmmm. Not sure that I'm happy with the people with a vested interest being the judge of what is an acceptable risk. Still, I like the way they shifted the responsibility back on to the card networks and issuers (and since this is using the old insecure technology they invented then the responsibility does lie with them). If this does turn out to be a problem then that could prove to be a very smart move.

    edited August 2016
  • Reply 15 of 40
    digitoldigitol Posts: 276member
    Shocking! Android security problems? Noooooooo. :)
    applepieguycapasicummagman1979
  • Reply 16 of 40
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,301member
    digitol said:
    Shocking! Android security problems? Noooooooo. :)
    Shocking! It's not Android security problems. It's mag strip problems. 
  • Reply 17 of 40
    EsquireCatsEsquireCats Posts: 1,268member
    That reply is naive and apologist to such a level that it could only have been astroturfed.

    This wouldn't be a problem if NFC mobile payment was widely supported in USA & UK - which it is not.

    The loop technology is inherently flawed, by transmitting the magnetic field rather than having it read from a stripe card invites interception. Stealing a token is also particularly grave since token transactions are granted a higher transaction authority (such as max transaction limit, rather than a static mag card limit), the token can also be used to immediately withdraw cash from a debit account, and due to tokens being more secure the bank is unlikely to grant a swift reprieve - since it looks like you're the one who did the withdraw.

    Also trying to downplay the flaw as requiring hardware that is "extremely difficult" to build is entirely ignorant to the very real and very frequent problem of card skimming. The hardware required for this hack is not dissimilar to existing skimming devices - in fact it's novel because it can now be achieved wirelessly.

    Samsung's response is also a problem, you can't sweep a security flaw under the rug and expect organised crime to ignore it.
    Ok, let's play your game. Given that mobile payments are extremely rare in the U.S., even for Apple Pay and Samsung Pay much much rare, it's still an impractical implementation for such a small reward. Of a criminal is going to go through all this effort to skim a card, they do it the old fashion way that's much more widely used. Hardly anyone makes mobile payments like Apple Pay or Android Pay and much less use this version of Samsung Pay.


    You don't get it - the point of the loop payment system is that it can already be used everywhere. That is why it's so dangerous, because it's going to be used in any place where the superior NFC payment system isn't available.
    capasicumigorskymagman1979
  • Reply 18 of 40
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    Rayz2016 said:
    sirlance99 said:
    Ok, let's play your game. Given that mobile payments are extremely rare in the U.S., even for Apple Pay and Samsung Pay much much rare, it's still an impractical implementation for such a small reward. Of a criminal is going to go through all this effort to skim a card, they do it the old fashion way that's much more widely used. Hardly anyone makes mobile payments like Apple Pay or Android Pay and much less use this version of Samsung Pay.


    Christ on a bicycle, did you… did you just play the 'security through obscurity' card? 

    Wow, things went south pretty damn fast. :-(
    I can see how you could see it that way, but his point is a little more subtle than that since you're talking about a subset.

    For a skimmer to work, a magnetic strip device has to be in place at the terminal. This means that all swiped cards as well as Samsung Pay users when using the feature they purchased from LoopPay. Skimmers are simple and cheap.

    The alternative is to target ONLY Android-based devices, and then ONLY those that are made by Samsung, and then ONLY those that less than a couple years old, and ONLY when they use Samsung Pay, and ONLY when it's the LoopPay feature.
    cnocbui
  • Reply 19 of 40
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member

    Ok, let's play your game. Given that mobile payments are extremely rare in the U.S., even for Apple Pay and Samsung Pay much much rare, it's still an impractical implementation for such a small reward. Of a criminal is going to go through all this effort to skim a card, they do it the old fashion way that's much more widely used. Hardly anyone makes mobile payments like Apple Pay or Android Pay and much less use this version of Samsung Pay.


    You don't get it - the point of the loop payment system is that it can already be used everywhere. That is why it's so dangerous, because it's going to be used in any place where the superior NFC payment system isn't available.
    How is it more dangerous than swiping a card? How is it dangerous when a retailer makes the choice to stop accepting swipes?
  • Reply 20 of 40
    Perhaps this is to be viewed less as a problem for the phone's owner and more as a problem for the banks.

    If the only way to prevent this attack is to try to reverse the charges after receiving a notification, that means these customers become more expensive for their banks to serve.

    Not to mention that people will probably find a way to turn off or ignore these notifications once they become annoying (which they are) and then delaying their response to the fraud will make it even more expensive for the banks, as some of the funds will become a lot less recoverable.

    We already have a huge issue in the US with banks not doing business in poor neighborhoods. This is why some politicians have considered whether post offices could offer financial services (which is clever but impractical). Hopefully the frequency of fraud won't explode overnight, but factors like this are not going to help banks move into those neighborhoods. Withholding legitimate financial services leaves these people to fend for themselves with check cashing establishments and interpersonal loans that incur a proportionally higher cost in both dollars and time and energy and emotional willpower.

    I suspect that Samsung executives realized a lot of this and decided to pull the trigger anyway so they could attempt to utilize the legacy hardware to "pull ahead" of Apple Pay. That's the kind of cultural issue that will affect a business and its customers in the long run. Maybe not right away, but if you continually leech value out of the lives of your customers, through security nightmares, bugs that waste time and aggravate and confuse, and products that don't last (or receive updates), you're doing little more than slowly kill the planet. A lot of the responsibility for these phones remaining popular should be laid at the feet of journalists who strive to maintain a semblance of parity so that their own work will be a reference point for customers to make decisions with.
    radarthekat
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