People really need to understand the US now has a national debt of $19.4 TRILLION. ( http://www.usdebtclock.org )
The debt has effectively doubled during Obama's term, something unprecedented in our history. On top of this, the labor force participation rate is the lowest it's been since 1978. More crushing debt and fewer people working to pay taxes is a very, very bad combination.
Thanks, Obama!
Ronald Reagan almost tripled the debt. GW Almost doubled the debt. This stuff is easy to look up for some.
The day Ronald Reagan was sworn in - the national debt was 934 billion. The day he left office the debt was 2.697 trillion. Almost TRIPLE. Bush 41 added over 80% and Bush 43 added 110%. The first year a President is in office the budget has already been set by the previous President.
So as to nullify the unique advantage Apple had over other companies. And if you think Ireland don't want that money, you are more clueless than I originally thought.
Thats short sighted thinking bro. Just like EU.
if Apple has to pay a huge tax bill you can bet thousands of US companies will leave the EU and Ireland, along with hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs.
No they won't. You don't leave a market of 500 million customers where you make good profits unless you're a complete idiot.
How dare the EU investigate a potential breach of the rules and omg then enforce any ruling. There is no punitive recovery if the deal between Apple and Ireland is found to breach the rules.
The problem is that if there was any wrongdoing, it was on the part of Ireland, or the Irish government, not Apple. However, the EU wants to punish Apple.
This is a money grab on the part of the EU, plain and simple. They're thieves and racketeers operating under the color of law.
Does the EU Commission get that money? Not as far as I know. I don't believe the taxes paid will go anywhere but the Irish government. The EU's interest is in better leveling the playing field so that everyone operates under the same rules as much as is practical.
Surely you don't think that small up and coming companies should be at even more of a disadvantage in becoming profitable compared to big multinationals who already struck it rich, partially by avoiding the corporate taxes that smaller (or even quite large) companies cannot. If all companies paid their fair share it might even result in you and me paying less in personal taxes that we have no way to entirely avoid like Apple, Google et al can. IMO the very rich are rich enough and becoming yet richer has no benefit to us peons. At some point it just becomes greed that in fact harms us.
Why does the EU want to force Ireland to accept back taxes Ireland says very publicly they don't want?
So as to nullify the unique advantage Apple had over other companies. And if you think Ireland don't want that money, you are more clueless than I originally thought.
So Irish politicians are lying in their public statements? And again.... AGAIN, I ask you to name one company that was affected in a way that disallowed it to compete with Appke. Which company flopped because Apple got this tax deal and they didn't? Where are the damages?
So as to nullify the unique advantage Apple had over other companies. And if you think Ireland don't want that money, you are more clueless than I originally thought.
Thats short sighted thinking bro. Just like EU.
if Apple has to pay a huge tax bill you can bet thousands of US companies will leave the EU and Ireland, along with hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs.
No they won't. You don't leave a market of 500 million customers where you make good profits unless you're a complete idiot.
Apple would not leave, but you certainly won't attract up and coming companies. Square, for example, might pull the plug on its European expansion if you guys act like a bunch of weenies.
Apple followed LEGAL Tax Laws!!! Apple didn't put the loopholes into the tax code, the politicians did. Now they want to change the rules and steal money from company's. That's exactly what they are doing, Government stealing. Really, it's nothing new.
You want to change the rules and close the loopholes, great, the extra taxes taken start at that point forward. I don't have a problem with that. American company's will slowly start to leave where it makes the most sense.
No the EU is investigating the charge that Apple had a deal that constituted to state aid which was not the same as other companies had access to which contravenes the rules. It's not changing the rules it's looking to see if the rules weren't enforced.
That's not quite true. But even so, it's taking the authority of individual countries into its own hands which isn't part of EU law. What Ireland did is the same thing we see states, counties and cities doing all the time. They give breaks to companies in order to have them move some operations into the area. This is done in Europe as well. The EU has mostly been targeting American companies. It's been pointed out that most large EU companies follow the same practice, but haven't been targeted, only those that actually broke EU law.
apple has long had a large presence in Ireland. Right now, that's over 6,000 people, with that number due to expand further. Considering the population of Ireland, that's a large percentage, and makes Apple one of the largest employers in Ireland.
so to make Ireland the center of European operations, and thereby the focus of their tax returns isn't actually illegal, according to EU law. The fact too, is that it's actually Ireland that's the subject of the investigation, not Apple, or others. The problem for Apple is that if Ireland is required to pay those taxes, then it's the companies that will be forced to do the actual payments.
if this were France or Germany, this investigation never would have happened, as that two do whatever they want.
There are a lot of immature Euros on here who don't understand the most rudimentary foundation of business... Whatever local community or city or state decides to do with a company is up to them. To have some arbitrary regulatory body create rules and apply them retroactively is unethical at best, but some Euros insist on cheering on this political stupidity
Article 107 of the TFEU (formerly 87 of the TEC) is the law that prohibits state aid as incompatible with competitiveness. It is not being applied retroactively, it's been there for a long time.
10 years later... Were these self-righteous assholes waiting this long so they could build the political capital to pull this bullshit off?
Neither Ireland nor Apple are required to submit a regular account of their tax arrangements to the EU. The EU didn't find out about it until recently.
Next excuse please. You keep setting them up, I'll keep knocking them down.
This has been in the media for far to over two years. "They just found out." Yeah right!
The EU taking two years to decide to do something is pretty quick off the mark by EU standards. And I believe the investigation has been underway for some time.
So as to nullify the unique advantage Apple had over other companies. And if you think Ireland don't want that money, you are more clueless than I originally thought.
So Irish politicians are lying in their public statements? And again.... AGAIN, I ask you to name one company that was affected in a way that disallowed it to compete with Appke. Which company flopped because Apple got this tax deal and they didn't? Where are the damages?
Irish politicians are not saying they don't want the money, they're saying that Ireland isn't at fault. Which is entirely what you'd expect them to say.
So as to nullify the unique advantage Apple had over other companies. And if you think Ireland don't want that money, you are more clueless than I originally thought.
So Irish politicians are lying in their public statements? And again.... AGAIN, I ask you to name one company that was affected in a way that disallowed it to compete with Appke. Which company flopped because Apple got this tax deal and they didn't? Where are the damages?
It is irrelevant if there is no other company that was damaged/flopped by this deal under investigation. IF Apple had a deal that no other company had access to then it breaks the rules and the back tax has to be reclaimed. End of. Period.
No they won't. You don't leave a market of 500 million customers where you make good profits unless you're a complete idiot.
Apple would not leave, but you certainly won't attract up and coming companies. Square, for example, might pull the plug on its European expansion if you guys act like a bunch of weenies.
Yes you will. No global company is going to go ... "nope won't get into Europe as I don't like the tax rules. I don't want to get into that lucrative market I have my faux principles. Let my competitors get all that profit."
So as to nullify the unique advantage Apple had over other companies. And if you think Ireland don't want that money, you are more clueless than I originally thought.
So Irish politicians are lying in their public statements? And again.... AGAIN, I ask you to name one company that was affected in a way that disallowed it to compete with Appke. Which company flopped because Apple got this tax deal and they didn't? Where are the damages?
Are they lying? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, hohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohohoho!
They are completely incapable of not lying.
Dell, maybe.
Dell will move all production of computer systems for customers in
Europe, the Middle East and Africa from Limerick to its Polish facility
and third-party manufacturers over the next year.
However, EU officials are to investigate a €52.7m aid package the Polish Government used to attract Dell away from Ireland
The trouble with that sort of question is it would be very difficult to really know without considerable resources and time to spend on the effort, which I don't happen to have.
So as to nullify the unique advantage Apple had over other companies. And if you think Ireland don't want that money, you are more clueless than I originally thought.
Thats short sighted thinking bro. Just like EU.
if Apple has to pay a huge tax bill you can bet thousands of US companies will leave the EU and Ireland, along with hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs.
No they won't. You don't leave a market of 500 million customers where you make good profits unless you're a complete idiot.
Yes they will leave.
Hundreds of USA companies will continue to sell goods in the EU, but they move their tax base and jobs out of that POS area. No business wants to deal with a POS place that retroactively changes rules a decade latter.
USA companies will no longer put their headquarters in the EU. Rather they will funnel their tax dollars to other countries and the EU will lose HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS in tax revenue. You can bet your azz that countries in South American, South East Asia, ect are all ready to welcome new USA headquarters.
And if Apple is asked to pay billions in taxes they will probably just leave Ireland all together and never pay the tax as a matter of principle. What can the EU do? Nothing. Apple does not have to pay a cent if they don't want to. The EU will try to ban Apple products then you will see millions protest and the EU will be forced to back down.
Sure, all those US companies are going to pull out of a market comprising over 500 million people and are then going to have to pay substantial import duties because of no longer being in the EU. That is not going to happen.
Sure, all those US companies are going to pull out of a market comprising over 500 million people and are then going to have to pay substantial import duties because of no longer being in the EU. That is not going to happen.
Apple still has Singapore so there may still backdoor left open there. That may become the new "Ireland". BTW, Apple lost the claim to being "Stateless" for tax purposes in Ireland last year, so they can no longer avoid the Irish.
Sure, all those US companies are going to pull out of a market comprising over 500 million people and are then going to have to pay substantial import duties because of no longer being in the EU. That is not going to happen.
Apple still has Singapore so there may still backdoor left open there. That may become the new "Ireland". BTW, Apple lost the claim to being "Stateless" for tax purposes in Ireland last year, so they can no longer avoid the Irish.
Being based in Singapore isn't going to get Apple products and services into the EU market without having to pay import duties.
Sure, all those US companies are going to pull out of a market comprising over 500 million people and are then going to have to pay substantial import duties because of no longer being in the EU. That is not going to happen.
You'll be surprised what $200 billion will buy you
Are you implying that Apple will be able to bribe access to to the EU for its goods and services without paying import duties? That should work, I can't imagine anyone in the EU noticing Apple selling $50.3 B worth of goods a year while not paying any import duties.
The EU is currently a bigger market for Apple than China. Last year alone Apple generated $50.33 B in income from the EU. Let's say Apple eventually has to pay $10 B in back taxes - which would represent a period of 10 years. You think as an Apple shareholder that you would like to see Apple walk away from a market, which on 2015 figures would generate income of potentially $503 B in ten years, all for the sake of having to cough up $10 B - ten years worth of tax? It's worth bearing in mind that if Apple wanted to repatriate some of it's funds to the US, that $10 B would be a deductible from the balancing payment they would have to make to the US gov't to bring the tax up to the US corporate tax rate of 35%
I think some of Apple's other shareholders might not think that a wise strategy or trade-off.
No they won't. You don't leave a market of 500 million customers where you make good profits unless you're a complete idiot.
Yes they will leave.
Hundreds of USA companies will continue to sell goods in the EU, but they move their tax base and jobs out of that POS area. No business wants to deal with a POS place that retroactively changes rules a decade latter.
USA companies will no longer put their headquarters in the EU. Rather they will funnel their tax dollars to other countries and the EU will lose HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS in tax revenue. You can bet your azz that countries in South American, South East Asia, ect are all ready to welcome new USA headquarters.
And if Apple is asked to pay billions in taxes they will probably just leave Ireland all together and never pay the tax as a matter of principle. What can the EU do? Nothing. Apple does not have to pay a cent if they don't want to. The EU will try to ban Apple products then you will see millions protest and the EU will be forced to back down.
If you think this I'm so very glad you are not in charge of any company. In your deranged fantasy world maybe this would happen but in the real world Apple and all those other US companies would still have an EU tax Base and would still pay the amount of tax they have to because they would have to be totally insane to walk away from the European markets.
Apple leave the EU because of tax? No chance. Anyone suggesting that surely doesn't understand how tax works and why Apple have an incorporated base in the EU in the first place.
Apple leave the EU because of tax? No chance. Anyone suggesting that surely doesn't understand how tax works and why Apple have an incorporated base in the EU in the first place.
Because the negotiations to revise the corporate tax code to fit business in a global economy are still happening and will favor Apple once implemented. They'll likely pay only a minimal sales tax kind of thing to you gents wearing Capri pants and the rest will be taxed only from the companies home country. There may not even be a need to incorporate internationally once these treaties or agreements or laws are signed.
Sure, all those US companies are going to pull out of a market comprising over 500 million people and are then going to have to pay substantial import duties because of no longer being in the EU. That is not going to happen.
Apple still has Singapore so there may still backdoor left open there. That may become the new "Ireland". BTW, Apple lost the claim to being "Stateless" for tax purposes in Ireland last year, so they can no longer avoid the Irish.
Being based in Singapore isn't going to get Apple products and services into the EU market without having to pay import duties.
People really need to understand the US now has a national debt of $19.4 TRILLION. ( http://www.usdebtclock.org )
The debt has effectively doubled during Obama's term, something unprecedented in our history. On top of this, the labor force participation rate is the lowest it's been since 1978. More crushing debt and fewer people working to pay taxes is a very, very bad combination.
Thanks, Obama!
Ronald Reagan almost tripled the debt. GW Almost doubled the debt. This stuff is easy to look up for some.
The day Ronald Reagan was sworn in - the national debt was 934 billion. The day he left office the debt was 2.697 trillion. Almost TRIPLE. Bush 41 added over 80% and Bush 43 added 110%. The first year a President is in office the budget has already been set by the previous President.
Both Bush AND Obama managed to send the US well along the path to economic ruin. Did you actually read your linked story?
Yes, I did. It was a point of reference for you. Did you read what you posted? "The debt has effectively doubled during Obama's term, something unprecedented in our history."
unprecedented: something never done or known before
Apple leave the EU because of tax? No chance. Anyone suggesting that surely doesn't understand how tax works and why Apple have an incorporated base in the EU in the first place.
Because the negotiations to revise the corporate tax code to fit business in a global economy are still happening and will favor Apple once implemented. They'll likely pay only a minimal sales tax kind of thing to you gents wearing Capri pants and the rest will be taxed only from the companies home country. There may not even be a need to incorporate internationally once these treaties or agreements or laws are signed.
Cue revision to every international trade agreement to slap down import taxes. And there are no international corporate tax code negotiations that are going to affect national sales taxes.
I don't wear capri pants or receive any sales tax. Weird reference.
Comments
next!
They are completely incapable of not lying.
Dell, maybe.
The trouble with that sort of question is it would be very difficult to really know without considerable resources and time to spend on the effort, which I don't happen to have.
The EU is currently a bigger market for Apple than China. Last year alone Apple generated $50.33 B in income from the EU. Let's say Apple eventually has to pay $10 B in back taxes - which would represent a period of 10 years. You think as an Apple shareholder that you would like to see Apple walk away from a market, which on 2015 figures would generate income of potentially $503 B in ten years, all for the sake of having to cough up $10 B - ten years worth of tax? It's worth bearing in mind that if Apple wanted to repatriate some of it's funds to the US, that $10 B would be a deductible from the balancing payment they would have to make to the US gov't to bring the tax up to the US corporate tax rate of 35%
I think some of Apple's other shareholders might not think that a wise strategy or trade-off.
GDP of world markets:
In your deranged fantasy world maybe this would happen but in the real world Apple and all those other US companies would still have an EU tax Base and would still pay the amount of tax they have to because they would have to be totally insane to walk away from the European markets.
"The debt has effectively doubled during Obama's term, something unprecedented in our history."
unprecedented: something never done or known before
I don't wear capri pants or receive any sales tax. Weird reference.