Seems like some very "safe" iterating on the line for these laptops, but where in the hell is the pipeline full of exciting new products? Where? They're now spending billions more on research... yet where are the breakthroughs? I hope the focus on real innovation has not entirely gone in favor of raiding the pantry for the management and employees? My uninformed (outsider) opinion tells me people need to feel some fire under them and utter wastes such as Eddie Cue, Dr. Dre and (sadly) Jony Ive need to take lesser roles at the company.
You just saw them, and you're too left-brained to realize it, just like almost everybody else here.
A rule of life: never find yourself on the side of the whining majority.
Should have learned this with the iPhone and the iPad.
I don't get it. People are honestly critical of the 4 TB3 ports!! I would rather rather have the functionality and bandwidth of TB3 than an old USB-A or DVI port. TB3 is more than worth having to purchase an inexpensive adapter.
I was actually impressed by the new machines. OLED still isn't mainstream and I like the touchbar. Discrete graphics in the higher end machine is a plus
Seems like some very "safe" iterating on the line for these laptops, but where in the hell is the pipeline full of exciting new products? Where? They're now spending billions more on research... yet where are the breakthroughs? I hope the focus on real innovation has not entirely gone in favor of raiding the pantry for the management and employees? My uninformed (outsider) opinion tells me people need to feel some fire under them and utter wastes such as Eddie Cue, Dr. Dre and (sadly) Jony Ive need to take lesser roles at the company.
You might not see this as I think you put me on ignore for being too negative. But honest to god can people actually use this stuff or least wait for reviews before pissing all over them? All the hands on first impressions I've read so far were very positive. The Verge said the new MacBook Pro looks and feels so good it's unreal. The touch bar is getting universal thumbs up. Of course we have to see reviews but first impressions are promising.
Since when did Apple become "The Dongle Company"? No dongle, no play.
Just pondering...
The answer to your question can be summed up in two words: Jony Ive.
Ive was given carte blanche on hardware and (for reasons that escape logic) software design by Tim Cook. Ive is on an insane quest to make the thinnest and lightest products possible, regardless if that design sacrifices function for form. And let's be clear, the latest round of hardware from Apple (e.g. new MacBook, iPhone 7, this new MacBook Pro) absolutely sacrifices function for form. Sure, the Touch Bar is cool. But how else can you possibly explain ditching several well established, frequently used, ports in favor of the still new USB-C port, on a Pro-level machine? Okay, I'll give you that the new Thunderbolt 3 port is powerful and has great potential, but why not ADD it to a standard USB 3, Thunderbolt, or even Lightning port, instead of REMOVING all of these ports completely? To shave off a few mm? Really? I'm all for making things thin and light, but there comes a point to where a product is thin enough (are we going for paper thin?)
Ive has gone too far in thin and minimal in his design, all in the name of beauty. What he fails to take into account is that most people still NEED the ports that are now gone. So, they inevitably have to now purchase and carry a slew of dongles to use the devices they already have. In addition to being inconvenient, these dongles also are ugly and make the beautifully designed Macbook Pro they are attached to ugly too. They're like accessory warts. Does Ive care? No, and clearly Apple doesn't either.
Plus, let's not forget that they just coupled the WORST keyboard in the world to the new PRO Macbook. People seem to be overlooking that. It's the same awful keyboard they saddled the new MacBook with. It's terrible. There's virtually no keyboard travel. It's like typing on an iPad. Apple can talk all day long about wobbly keys. But let me ask this, when has anyway EVER complained about this as a problem with past Apple keyboards? Never. They needed to explain why they created a super thin keyboard to accommodate their super thin computer. I can see the logic on the MacBook. It was essentially designed to replace the MacBook Air. They whole purpose of that design was to be as thin as possible. Okay, I'll buy that. But, the MacBook Pro should have a regular keyboard. It's a PRO machine. Have you ever tried typing at length on the MacBook keyboard? Go to an Apple store and try it for yourself. It's a TERRIBLE experience.
Look, I LOVE Apple. I've been a Mac user since the 90s. I supported Apple when everyone else was saying they were going to disappear. Hell, my license plate is APLGUY. But, Ive's minimalist obsession has got to stop. He's gone too far. First he went to the extreme in responding to the excesses of skeumorphism in iOS and OS X/MacOS by removing all that was functional and beautiful in the OSes, making them too simple and actually harder to use (e.g. hiding standard UI elements in the name of minimalism). Now he's done the same with the hardware by making them so thin that they had to strip out useful functions (e.g. ports). Enough is enough. I give Ive much credit for what he's done, but I think all his fame has gone to his head. He lives in his own reality where thin is in and is the only thing that matters. I hope he retires soon, so his reign of design terror will come to an end.
Question : If all the USB ports can be a power connector can I speed up the charging by plugging in multiple chargers?
Well... I still prefer magsafe more
Might be an excellent way to make the Note explosions look small scale.
Or Apple might have (and likely has) engineered the max amount of power the battery can receive at a given moment.
you rwally there's a possibility that they didn't think of that and could have exploding laptops? you actually think that's possible, even if unlikely?
Did they explain why the 2.9GHz 13" MacBookPro with Touch Bar is only available with a 250GB SSD? Even the 2.0GHz 13" MBP without the Touch Bar is available up to 1TB. I didn't see anything in the keynote that explained this apparent oversight, and I hope it is just a temporary situation.
It jumps directly from Memory to Keyboard and Documentation, skipping any Storage options: [image]
Unless there is a problem with their website—which I think is doubtful—then you didn't click the link I supplied. Here's a screen of what I see. I'm guessing you choose the entry-level MacBook Pro with Touch Bar instead of choosing the other one which allows you to confugure the same options as the other, plus the storage capacity.
Your link worked for me, but when I navigated to it I didn't see the Capacity options either:
The product ID is different from your link, so something funny is going on.
EDIT: Looks like the higher end one that ships with a default of 512GB is configurable up to 1TB, but the mid-range one that ships with 256GB is not capacity configurable at all. Which seems silly, as the only difference between the mid-range and high-end appears to be the capacity.
But effectively, it's configurable, at 256GB, 512GB or 1TB, just split across two products.
It makes sense, it's just unintuitive. The $200 to go from mid to high range is just the cost of the storage upgrade, but allows the ability to just order one with more storage without using a CTO option.
Apples vision of the future is one where people carry around laptop that's 15% lighter. And an extra pound or two of adapters and USB C cables... Dumb!
I don't get it. People are honestly critical of the 4 TB3 ports!! I would rather rather have the functionality and bandwidth of TB3 than an old USB-A or DVI port. TB3 is more than worth having to purchase an inexpensive adapter.
I was actually impressed by the new machines. OLED still isn't mainstream and I like the touchbar. Discrete graphics in the higher end machine is a plus. The discrete graphics would work well with the iPad Pro using Duet and having such a set up is quite portable and would serve nearly conceivable need I would ever have. Including the ability to run Windows in VMWare.
I am seriously looking at picking up one of these machines.
Why do people keep thinking that those of us who would have liked a USB Type A port don't ALSO want some Type C love, too? How about 3 Type C/Thunderbolt 3 ports and one Type A/USB 3 port? How often is anyone going to need more than 3 C ports? If you are using all 4 ports there is a very good chance that one of them is connected to a Type A device via an adapter.
And it's not about the expense, it's about the convenience. Forget or lose your adapter just once and you're screwed if a friend or client hands you a flash drive or you want to borrow someone else's cable to charge your phone or your watch or wireless headphones. If your MBP sits at your desk 90% of the time it's probably not going to be an issue. But some of us take our laptops out into the real world where USB C is probably a couple years (or more) away still from being common place. Don't expect accessory makers to simply start shipping all of their devices with USB C cables anytime soon because they will need to maintain compatibility with the Type A ports on the vast majority of their customer's computers and chargers.
Touch bar looks interesting. I think it will be bery useful for some and only somewhat useful for most. Still I like it. The DJ app was great.
I don't like that Apple couldn't come up with a MagSafe replacement. I realize that with all ports accepting power (good idea) it rules out a special receptacle for a breakaway connector in the unibody. How about coming up with a cord that optionally offers a MagSafe USB-C connector? The cords are separate from the power brick so it would be a minor expense. I guess I'll have to get that ugly Griffin thingy.
Maybe the permanent magnet on the MagSafe connector acts as a choke for the high speed data passing thru the port.
Seems like some very "safe" iterating on the line for these laptops, but where in the hell is the pipeline full of exciting new products? Where? They're now spending billions more on research... yet where are the breakthroughs? I hope the focus on real innovation has not entirely gone in favor of raiding the pantry for the management and employees? My uninformed (outsider) opinion tells me people need to feel some fire under them and utter wastes such as Eddie Cue, Dr. Dre and (sadly) Jony Ive need to take lesser roles at the company.
why on earth do you believe, as some anonymous random, that if you don't personally see things that they don't exist?
and since you're completely ignorant to what goes on behind closed doors what makes you think your opinion is remotely worth anything on those executives? can Ive? well, at least now i know to put you in the troll/clueless bin.
Though Off The Topic, Have You Ever Typed " Telex " Key Board ?
That Was Indespensable Pre-Historic Tool for ANYBODY Who Were Engaged in The Business Communicating with People World-Widely Instantaneously on The Wire Before The Real Curtain of http:// & E-Mail Era Opened.
What I Want to Say is I ReaLly Loved and Captivated by The " Touch & Feel " of The Key Board of Telex So Long - Very DEEP, PROFOUND STROKE with Real Hard & Heavy Response and Comfortable Clicking Sound - No Other Key Board of Computers Nowadays Developped in The Direction of " Thinner & Lighter " and Even No Other Typewriters Key Boards Can Match.
Probably Very First Period of Computers Key Boards Such As IBM Terminal that Appeared in The Video Clip of This Live Event and Commodore Ones Might Have Retained The Same Touch, and Even Apple II Maybe.
Of Course Those Key Boards Look Now Fossil Age Products - TOO HEAVY & TOO BULKY !
But I Still Want Any Vendor in The World Have Them Resurrect and Sell !!!!!!
I Have Never Ever Had Such " Orgasm " When I Typed Any Key of Telex Key Board with Any Developped Thin & Silent ( Real Physical Clicking Sound, NOT The Sound Out of Speakers ! ) Key Boards of Late.
The old Apple Extended keyboard had a similar feel because of the mechanical Alps switches. It was considered the best keyboard Apple ever made in terms of feel. A company called Matthias makes a modern version of that keyboard for Mac or PC, and you can find it here: http://matias.ca/tactilepro/ I've never used the modern ones, and they're not exactly cheap, but were supposedly highly regarded. Enjoy!
I don't get it. People are honestly critical of the 4 TB3 ports!! I would rather rather have the functionality and bandwidth of TB3 than an old USB-A or DVI port. TB3 is more than worth having to purchase an inexpensive adapter.
I was actually impressed by the new machines. OLED still isn't mainstream and I like the touchbar. Discrete graphics in the higher end machine is a plus. The discrete graphics would work well with the iPad Pro using Duet and having such a set up is quite portable and would serve nearly conceivable need I would ever have. Including the ability to run Windows in VMWare.
I am seriously looking at picking up one of these machines.
Why do people keep thinking that those of us who would have liked a USB Type A port don't ALSO want some Type C love, too? How about 3 Type C/Thunderbolt 3 ports and one Type A/USB 3 port? How often is anyone going to need more than 3 C ports? If you are using all 4 ports there is a very good chance that one of them is connected to a Type A device via an adapter.
And it's not about the expense, it's about the convenience. Forget or lose your adapter just once and you're screwed if a friend or client hands you a flash drive or you want to borrow someone else's cable to charge your phone or your watch or wireless headphones. If your MBP sits at your desk 90% of the time it's probably not going to be an issue. But some of us take our laptops out into the real world where USB C is probably a couple years (or more) away still from being common place. Don't expect accessory makers to simply start shipping all of their devices with USB C cables anytime soon because they will need to maintain compatibility with the Type A ports on the vast majority of their customer's computers and chargers.
Exactly. USB A ports are going to be around for a VERY long time. They are like the headphone jack and the VGA port. Just because Apple is standardizing on USB C, doesn't mean the rest of the industry is. I'm all for forwarding technology (e.g. when Apple dropped the floppy disk) when it makes sense. But USB C is still too new. Even when Apple moved to USB, back in the Power Mac days, they still included some of the legacy ports on the Power Mac G3. They allowed for an easy transition to the new standard. These days, Apple goes full steam ahead with a new standard, users be damned. It's sad, really. But hey, need to connect a legacy device? There's an adapter for that!
Just curious how a company that prides itself on it's integrated ecosystem has its two brand new 2016 devices, iPhone 7 and MacBook Pro that can't connect to each other without an out of box dongle or cable purchase.
You can't be serious. What solution do you propose other than never moving from USB-A?
Um, do what they did with every other MPB port migration in the past. When they moved to FW800, there was a model of MBP that had both FW800 and FW400. When they moved to Thunderbolt they had a model that had both Thunderbolt and FW800. In both of those cases, the outgoing port would easily have been considered a niche market, and yet Apple included it so that users could have time to transition their devices/peripherals to the new standard while still being able to conveniently use their old devices.
USB Type A is easily the most prolific port standard in computer history, not niche like FW was. Literally every device most of us own and use daily is going to require an adapter. You'll either need to buy many adapters, one for each device, or be constantly swapping them. And always carry one with you in case someone hands you a thumb drive with files you need. You'll need a different cable or adapter depending if you are charging your phone/watch/table/etc from your laptop vs wall charger.
Removing the headphone jack from the iPhone was a fairly bounded and manageable problem. The vast majority of people will only ever use one set of headphones with their iPhone. If you used 3rd party wired headphones, one $10 adapter solves 99% of the problem. A laptop needs to be able to connect to a much larger, ore diverse, and, for some of us, constantly changing set of devices. "Get an adapter" is neither a convenient or elegant solution.
I know you are going to disagree and probably go into a rage about how stupid and stubborn I am, but in my opinion, they should have provided a model with both Type C and Type A and then gone C-only with the next iteration (along with Kaby Lake) just like they have with the port migrations in the past.
Not stubborn and stupid, but shall we say unsympathetic to engineering and production challenges. Each compromise wth past standards in the machine not only represents thousands of hours of engineering time, millions of dollars of resources as the compromises are prototyped back and forth, but most important they introduce fatal distractions and dispiriting rats nests of pointless finessing over obsolescences that should just be cut and done with. You have to think like Jobs did. Just buy an adapter.
I get all that stuff. I really do. But don't you think that you are exaggerating just a little bit saying that having a Type A port in place of one of the Type C ports is THAT big of an engineering challenge? As several have already pointed out, the adapter is around $10, how complicated could that possibly be to put that miniscule amount of technology inside of the case? If that requirement had been a primary specification from the beginning, it would have been a far, far less challenging technical accomplishment than making the MBP a few mm thinner! Apple has some pretty smart people on their payroll. I'm confident they could have figure it out if they had wanted to.
Oh, and those "transition" MBP models I mentioned in my post that supported both the new and old standards were under Jobs' watch. So I'm not so sure he thoughts were always just buy an adapter.
I'm seeing more positive first impressions from the tech press and my twitter tech feed than I'm seeing here. I think that's a first. As far as Jony Ive having carte blanche to do whatever he wants that's nonsense. If the decision is made to go all USB-C that's not a decision only made by one person. I don't care how much power Ive might have he doesn't have the power to remove USB-A from a laptop if the rest of the executive team doesn't agree.
Why didn't Apple put USB-C into the iPhone 7 and use that as the charging and audio port? It would be universal across all platforms and would allow the iPhone to be compatible with more accessories. Looks like USB-C might be the new standard and Lighting is out the door?
software UI to allow the iPad Pro to be used as touch input to the iMac -- including Apple Pencil
pro apps (FCP, Logic, Xcode, etc) that run on the iMac and the iPad
handoff both ways between the iMac and the iPad Pro
That would bring all the advantages of Touch UI to the iMmac without any of the disadvantages, and allow the iPad Pro, standalone, to do pro apps.
...Best of both worlds?
AstroPad allows you to use your iPad Pro and Pencil as if it was your Mac from anywhere in your house and with little lag. Duet allows you to use your iPad Pro as a second display on your Mac using your TrackPad/Mouse/or Touch. It's as close as you're going to get for now, and they work quite well (I use them daily on my 12 inch iPad and Pencil).
AstroPad looks amazing, thanks for posting that.
Just so you know, Duet has a Pro version, a $20 per year subscription, that also includes input ability using the Pencil.
Seems like some very "safe" iterating on the line for these laptops, but where in the hell is the pipeline full of exciting new products? Where? They're now spending billions more on research... yet where are the breakthroughs? I hope the focus on real innovation has not entirely gone in favor of raiding the pantry for the management and employees? My uninformed (outsider) opinion tells me people need to feel some fire under them and utter wastes such as Eddie Cue, Dr. Dre and (sadly) Jony Ive need to take lesser roles at the company.
why on earth do you believe, as some anonymous random, that if you don't personally see things that they don't exist?
and since you're completely ignorant to what goes on behind closed doors what makes you think your opinion is remotely worth anything on those executives? can Ive? well, at least now i know to put you in the troll/clueless bin.
Cook has been saying that for several years now. At some point is reasonable to expect that "awesome new tech in the pipeline" would actually show itself and come out the door.
When Steve came back and ran Apple from 1999- 2010 we got the iMac, the G3 tower, the G4 tower, G5 Tower, Mac Pro, the "Pixar lamp" iMac, the switch to Intel processors, iTunes and the iTunes store, TV and movie rentals and purchases, Apple TV, a new Mac OS built from the ground up with a Unix kernel, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, the titanium PowerBook G4, the iBook, the MacBook Pro aluminum redesign, the Apple Cinema Display lineup with up to 30" flat panel, the iSight camera, FaceTime, iOS.
With Tim Cook in charge since 2010- 2016 we have thinner iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, the Apple Watch, and the decline and slow death of the Mac.
Comments
A rule of life: never find yourself on the side of the whining majority.
Should have learned this with the iPhone and the iPad.
Its been forever thst 16GB has been the Apple notebook limit.
With th the event invite tag line I was certain they'd double the RAM capacity.
It it would have been san instant purchase for me but now I must wait another year...
its getting ridiculous.
Ive was given carte blanche on hardware and (for reasons that escape logic) software design by Tim Cook. Ive is on an insane quest to make the thinnest and lightest products possible, regardless if that design sacrifices function for form. And let's be clear, the latest round of hardware from Apple (e.g. new MacBook, iPhone 7, this new MacBook Pro) absolutely sacrifices function for form. Sure, the Touch Bar is cool. But how else can you possibly explain ditching several well established, frequently used, ports in favor of the still new USB-C port, on a Pro-level machine? Okay, I'll give you that the new Thunderbolt 3 port is powerful and has great potential, but why not ADD it to a standard USB 3, Thunderbolt, or even Lightning port, instead of REMOVING all of these ports completely? To shave off a few mm? Really? I'm all for making things thin and light, but there comes a point to where a product is thin enough (are we going for paper thin?)
Ive has gone too far in thin and minimal in his design, all in the name of beauty. What he fails to take into account is that most people still NEED the ports that are now gone. So, they inevitably have to now purchase and carry a slew of dongles to use the devices they already have. In addition to being inconvenient, these dongles also are ugly and make the beautifully designed Macbook Pro they are attached to ugly too. They're like accessory warts. Does Ive care? No, and clearly Apple doesn't either.
Plus, let's not forget that they just coupled the WORST keyboard in the world to the new PRO Macbook. People seem to be overlooking that. It's the same awful keyboard they saddled the new MacBook with. It's terrible. There's virtually no keyboard travel. It's like typing on an iPad. Apple can talk all day long about wobbly keys. But let me ask this, when has anyway EVER complained about this as a problem with past Apple keyboards? Never. They needed to explain why they created a super thin keyboard to accommodate their super thin computer. I can see the logic on the MacBook. It was essentially designed to replace the MacBook Air. They whole purpose of that design was to be as thin as possible. Okay, I'll buy that. But, the MacBook Pro should have a regular keyboard. It's a PRO machine. Have you ever tried typing at length on the MacBook keyboard? Go to an Apple store and try it for yourself. It's a TERRIBLE experience.
Look, I LOVE Apple. I've been a Mac user since the 90s. I supported Apple when everyone else was saying they were going to disappear. Hell, my license plate is APLGUY. But, Ive's minimalist obsession has got to stop. He's gone too far. First he went to the extreme in responding to the excesses of skeumorphism in iOS and OS X/MacOS by removing all that was functional and beautiful in the OSes, making them too simple and actually harder to use (e.g. hiding standard UI elements in the name of minimalism). Now he's done the same with the hardware by making them so thin that they had to strip out useful functions (e.g. ports). Enough is enough. I give Ive much credit for what he's done, but I think all his fame has gone to his head. He lives in his own reality where thin is in and is the only thing that matters. I hope he retires soon, so his reign of design terror will come to an end.
And it's not about the expense, it's about the convenience. Forget or lose your adapter just once and you're screwed if a friend or client hands you a flash drive or you want to borrow someone else's cable to charge your phone or your watch or wireless headphones. If your MBP sits at your desk 90% of the time it's probably not going to be an issue. But some of us take our laptops out into the real world where USB C is probably a couple years (or more) away still from being common place. Don't expect accessory makers to simply start shipping all of their devices with USB C cables anytime soon because they will need to maintain compatibility with the Type A ports on the vast majority of their customer's computers and chargers.
and since you're completely ignorant to what goes on behind closed doors what makes you think your opinion is remotely worth anything on those executives? can Ive? well, at least now i know to put you in the troll/clueless bin.
The old Apple Extended keyboard had a similar feel because of the mechanical Alps switches. It was considered the best keyboard Apple ever made in terms of feel. A company called Matthias makes a modern version of that keyboard for Mac or PC, and you can find it here: http://matias.ca/tactilepro/
I've never used the modern ones, and they're not exactly cheap, but were supposedly highly regarded.
Enjoy!
Oh, and those "transition" MBP models I mentioned in my post that supported both the new and old standards were under Jobs' watch. So I'm not so sure he thoughts were always just buy an adapter.
Cook has been saying that for several years now. At some point is reasonable to expect that "awesome new tech in the pipeline" would actually show itself and come out the door.
Not that this thread needs any more comments...
But on a humorous note for closure:
This is what happens when John Ive is busy decorating Christmas trees...!! LOL
With Tim Cook in charge since 2010- 2016 we have thinner iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, the Apple Watch, and the decline and slow death of the Mac.
Really miss you Steve!