Steve Jobs never said anything about the extermination of the laptop or the computer. He just said "PCs will become trucks" Interpreting this as "PC will die" is a gross mistake of Microsoft's management at that time, opening the way for "convertibles" frenzy, pushing the PC industry several years backwards.
"You can't try to turn MacOS into an iPhone," Schiller added. "Conversely, you can't turn iOS into a Mac.... So each one is best at what they're meant to be -- and we take what makes sense to add from each, but without fundamentally changing them so they're compromised."
I don't get the logic there... Yes, tablets and laptops ARE different and will not merge well. But Schiller is talking about software, not hardware configurations. Yes, IOS is touchscreen and MacOS is mouse driven. That does not mean that they could not be merged into one OS that recognizes both without compromising either one. Yes, MS tried and failed dramatically with Windows 8, but then MS fails at most things. That certainly does not mean Apple could not pull it off.
There is no logical reason why an IPad could not be connected to a mouse & keyboard and perform well. The result would be the death of the MacBook. Not the MacBook Pro, but the MacBook. It would become immediately redundant.
I get the feeling Schiller is speaking from an ideological standpoint rather than a technological one. Jobs would kick his butt.
Steve Jobs would never kill the MacBook for a "keyboard operated" iPad. As a fanless full macOS computer the Retina MacBook is as big a breakthrough as the iPad. Besides, there is a more fundamental difference between iOS and macOS: the user experience does not include the file system in iOS. You cannot hide and unhide the file system based on the interaction method. If you do, then you share the fate of Windows 8...
"We unanimously were very compelled by [the Touch Bar] as a direction, based on, one, using it, and also having the sense this is the beginning of a very interesting direction," Ive said. "But [it] still just marks a beginning."AppleInsider said:
Next step: OLED touch-screen? That could make it much easier to eliminate the trackpad and sense gestures directly over the virtual key surface. Even less wasted motion that way. But only if it improves the experience of using the keyboard.
Logical next step (and one that would turbo boost the Apple ecosystem) would be to integrate iOS devices as MacOS peripherals.
No, not integrating the OSes, just letting us use those brand new TouchBar capabilities with, say, a 12.9" ipadPro as a super peripheral. Will have a much bigger bang than a 1/2" wide strip. With the changes to MacOS and Mac software to support touchbar, all the elements are there.
All that iPad real estate paired in slave mode to a MacOS rebuilt for *optional* touch peripheral use? Game changer!
They already have a very good model for doing this with WatchOS/iOS. In that they distribute WatchOS apps as extensions to iOS apps. Do the same with MacOS and and allow trusted signed MacOS apps to host an extension to run on iOS devices. I guess there will be security restrictions like only being able to run those apps while close to the host to avoid it being a way to sideload iOS apps.
Hey it might be wishful thinking on my part but these denials sure sound like they have something planned and are deflecting.
"We unanimously were very compelled by [the Touch Bar] as a direction, based on, one, using it, and also having the sense this is the beginning of a very interesting direction," Ive said. "But [it] still just marks a beginning."AppleInsider said:
Next step: OLED touch-screen? That could make it much easier to eliminate the trackpad and sense gestures directly over the virtual key surface. Even less wasted motion that way. But only if it improves the experience of using the keyboard.
"It is great to provide two different ways to solve some of the same things, but they also do very unique things that the other doesn't," said Schiller. "Having them separate allows us to explore both, versus trying to force them into one -- and only one -- model."
Microsoft fell for the head fake. Ballmer thought Apple was moving toward unifying iOS and OS X. He saw a few cosmetic and functional changes being shared between iOS to OS X.
So he jumped to the conclusion that Apple would merge the two OS-es.
I can just see him bellowing "Apple is going to do a mash-up of iOS and OS X. Let's beat them to it." "For once, Apple will be copying Microsoft", he must have said, triumphantly.
Well, no. Merging the mobile and desktop Windows experiences was a sucker move.
Enjoy your retirement, Ballmer. How 'bout them Clippers?
"Next step: OLED touch-screen?"
by that I'm assuming you mean make the whole keyboard / trackpad area a touch screen (with haptic feedback of course)?
Maybe they should take a brief look at price. Even I, a 30-year Apple vet, am starting to question why Apple keeps delivering 2 year old hardware specs at 2 years from now prices.
The MBP is using Skylake quad core processors since Kaby Lake is only shipping in dual core configurations. It may be 2017 before Intel ships quad-core versions of KL. You can only ship the parts that are available.
But unfortunately. I cannot see them updating these machines quickly with the new chips. Can you? Skylake will sit in the machines for far longer than it should while the price stays high ala the Mac Pro.
Apple will just soak the profit up as the chip prices fall.
I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it
What new chips. "The new chips"? You're talking about things that are literally not available. So Apple is late with things that don't exist, again? This argument is so very tired.
I do wish they would have followed what they did with iPhone 7 and put an adapter in the box for connecting your iOS device to the USB c port. If they're going to take USB-a away give people an adapter to make the transition to USB c less painful. These laptops are expensive enough I'm sure they could do it without cutting into margins much at all. People hate dongles but they hate them even more when they have to be purchased separately.
You don't need a fucking cord to sync your iPhone with your Mac. If you want one, you can already buy one. They don't "have to" be purchased.
Logical next step (and one that would turbo boost the Apple ecosystem) would be to integrate iOS devices as MacOS peripherals.
No, not integrating the OSes, just letting us use those brand new TouchBar capabilities with, say, a 12.9" ipadPro as a super peripheral. Will have a much bigger bang than a 1/2" wide strip. With the changes to MacOS and Mac software to support touchbar, all the elements are there.
All that iPad real estate paired in slave mode to a MacOS rebuilt for *optional* touch peripheral use? Game changer!
"You can't try to turn MacOS into an iPhone," Schiller added. "Conversely, you can't turn iOS into a Mac.... So each one is best at what they're meant to be -- and we take what makes sense to add from each, but without fundamentally changing them so they're compromised."
I don't get the logic there... Yes, tablets and laptops ARE different and will not merge well. But Schiller is talking about software, not hardware configurations. Yes, IOS is touchscreen and MacOS is mouse driven. That does not mean that they could not be merged into one OS that recognizes both without compromising either one. Yes, MS tried and failed dramatically with Windows 8, but then MS fails at most things. That certainly does not mean Apple could not pull it off.
There is no logical reason why an IPad could not be connected to a mouse & keyboard and perform well. The result would be the death of the MacBook. Not the MacBook Pro, but the MacBook. It would become immediately redundant.
I get the feeling Schiller is speaking from an ideological standpoint rather than a technological one. Jobs would kick his butt.
Steve Jobs would never kill the MacBook for a "keyboard operated" iPad. As a fanless full macOS computer the Retina MacBook is as big a breakthrough as the iPad. Besides, there is a more fundamental difference between iOS and macOS: the user experience does not include the file system in iOS. You cannot hide and unhide the file system based on the interaction method. If you do, then you share the fate of Windows 8...
It's not about keyboards. Apple already gave keyboards to IPads. I was referring to the mouse.
Yes, the file system is a major difference between IOS and MacOS - but that has nothing to do with intrinsic qualities. It's simply a feature not currently available to IOS users. That could be easily fixed. On the other hand, for its regular users, IOS does just fine without it. Rather than not being there, it is tightly bound to the associated program. If you want a Numbers file, you open Numbers and there are all the files associated with it.
The prices are just incredible. I don't think I can justify this kind of expense for a laptop. They've completely price themselves out of the range of 99% of the population. More worryingly, they have priced themselves out of their future markets the classrooms and universities that are the users of the future. Computers for the 1%. Their phones are getting more expensive. The iPad has become way too expensive. iPads were such a success because nearly everyone could afford one. Now they are more expensive than most laptops and desktops. I guess I'm gonna have to learn to live with Windows 10. I use it at work and it is not so bad. Apple has completely done away with their entry and mid level computers and gone super ultra high premium. For the first time in 35 years I will have to be a Windows user. Too bad. People's memories are short. Apple has done this in the past. Over priced undifferentiated computers nearly killed the company once before. I'm a little sad to say goodbye community. It's been nice being one of you.
I do wish they would have followed what they did with iPhone 7 and put an adapter in the box for connecting your iOS device to the USB c port. If they're going to take USB-a away give people an adapter to make the transition to USB c less painful. These laptops are expensive enough I'm sure they could do it without cutting into margins much at all. People hate dongles but they hate them even more when they have to be purchased separately.
You don't need a fucking cord to sync your iPhone with your Mac. If you want one, you can already buy one. They don't "have to" be purchased.
I don't need a cord to use iTunes with my iOS device?
Logical next step (and one that would turbo boost the Apple ecosystem) would be to integrate iOS devices as MacOS peripherals.
No, not integrating the OSes, just letting us use those brand new TouchBar capabilities with, say, a 12.9" ipadPro as a super peripheral. Will have a much bigger bang than a 1/2" wide strip. With the changes to MacOS and Mac software to support touchbar, all the elements are there.
All that iPad real estate paired in slave mode to a MacOS rebuilt for *optional* touch peripheral use? Game changer!
Logical next step (and one that would turbo boost the Apple ecosystem) would be to integrate iOS devices as MacOS peripherals.
No, not integrating the OSes, just letting us use those brand new TouchBar capabilities with, say, a 12.9" ipadPro as a super peripheral. Will have a much bigger bang than a 1/2" wide strip. With the changes to MacOS and Mac software to support touchbar, all the elements are there.
All that iPad real estate paired in slave mode to a MacOS rebuilt for *optional* touch peripheral use? Game changer!
They have already done this a while ago with the Logic Remote iPad app. Now it's just a matter of expanding that concept across more Mac apps.
The prices are just incredible. I don't think I can justify this kind of expense for a laptop. They've completely price themselves out of the range of 99% of the population. More worryingly, they have priced themselves out of their future markets the classrooms and universities that are the users of the future. Computers for the 1%. Their phones are getting more expensive. The iPad has become way too expensive. iPads were such a success because nearly everyone could afford one. Now they are more expensive than most laptops and desktops. I guess I'm gonna have to learn to live with Windows 10. I use it at work and it is not so bad. Apple has completely done away with their entry and mid level computers and gone super ultra high premium. For the first time in 35 years I will have to be a Windows user. Too bad. People's memories are short. Apple has done this in the past. Over priced undifferentiated computers nearly killed the company once before. I'm a little sad to say goodbye community. It's been nice being one of you.
Exactly. I've been buying Apple since the mid 80's. Now their machines are a fortune with no entry or mid level (Apple entry and mid not Windows cheap cheap) models. Not only that but they're not really Pro machines which are upgradeable. You used to be able to buy a good Mac for $1000-$1200 and then could upgrade memory, drive etc as needed. No longer now you get ripped off by Apple's ultra premium pricing, then their outrageous ssd upgrade pricing and for all that you're stuck with those specs never being able to upgrade.
Sadly after 30+ years I will buy no more Macs unless I buy used from somewhere. It's very true that the next generation will never adopt Apple because as high school and college students the machines are way out of reach. Very shortsighted by TPTB at Apple.
The prices are just incredible. I don't think I can justify this kind of expense for a laptop. They've completely price themselves out of the range of 99% of the population. More worryingly, they have priced themselves out of their future markets the classrooms and universities that are the users of the future. Computers for the 1%. Their phones are getting more expensive. The iPad has become way too expensive. iPads were such a success because nearly everyone could afford one. Now they are more expensive than most laptops and desktops. I guess I'm gonna have to learn to live with Windows 10. I use it at work and it is not so bad. Apple has completely done away with their entry and mid level computers and gone super ultra high premium. For the first time in 35 years I will have to be a Windows user. Too bad. People's memories are short. Apple has done this in the past. Over priced undifferentiated computers nearly killed the company once before. I'm a little sad to say goodbye community. It's been nice being one of you.
Exactly. I've been buying Apple since the mid 80's. Now their machines are a fortune with no entry or mid level (Apple entry and mid not Windows cheap cheap) models. Not only that but they're not really Pro machines which are upgradeable. You used to be able to buy a good Mac for $1000-$1200 and then could upgrade memory, drive etc as needed. No longer now you get ripped off by Apple's ultra premium pricing, then their outrageous ssd upgrade pricing and for all that you're stuck with those specs never being able to upgrade.
Sadly after 30+ years I will buy no more Macs unless I buy used from somewhere. It's very true that the next generation will never adopt Apple because as high school and college students the machines are way out of reach. Very shortsighted by TPTB at Apple.
All true... But, during the presentation Apple was very open about the fact that the MacBook Pro is for Pros. ... I expect Apple to come back by dumping the MacBook Air and modernizing the MacBook. ......... And, at some point, they will need to release the Apple version of a Chromebook. Otherwise, Google will wipe the floor with them.
Maybe they should take a brief look at price. Even I, a 30-year Apple vet, am starting to question why Apple keeps delivering 2 year old hardware specs at 2 years from now prices.
The MBP is using Skylake quad core processors since Kaby Lake is only shipping in dual core configurations. It may be 2017 before Intel ships quad-core versions of KL. You can only ship the parts that are available.
But unfortunately. I cannot see them updating these machines quickly with the new chips. Can you? Skylake will sit in the machines for far longer than it should while the price stays high ala the Mac Pro.
Apple will just soak the profit up as the chip prices fall.
I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it
People need to realize that Intel's newer CPU's are the barest improvements. Kaby Lake is just a slight tweak to Skylake, nothing more. The days of legitimate CPU improvements from Intel are over.
Intel has already announced that high end Cannonlake will be delayed even further, and Coffee Lake will be produced to fill in the gap, meaning they'll have had four CPU's on the 14nm process. (Broadwell/Skylake/Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake).
I own a software company and my developers can choose between a Dell XPS13 (Ubuntu based) and a Macbook Pro 13". The difference between a Skylake and a KabyLake Dell XPS13 is 5 hours of battery life (10 vs 15), the performance is roughly equal. The new Macbook Pro costs 40% more than an equivalent Dell XPS. In the coming weeks I will reconsidering my purchasing policy and and if it seems that the touchbar only gives a marginally productivity gain as I am fearing, I might be sticking to a Dell XPS13 only policy. Why should I keep the option open for an outdated, overpriced machine?
I do wish they would have followed what they did with iPhone 7 and put an adapter in the box for connecting your iOS device to the USB c port. If they're going to take USB-a away give people an adapter to make the transition to USB c less painful. These laptops are expensive enough I'm sure they could do it without cutting into margins much at all. People hate dongles but they hate them even more when they have to be purchased separately.
You can sync your iOS device wirelessly. A more prominent issue is connecting other legacy USB and Thurnderbolt devices. Kind of like the previous teething issues with Firewire a while back.
Maybe they should take a brief look at price. Even I, a 30-year Apple vet, am starting to question why Apple keeps delivering 2 year old hardware specs at 2 years from now prices.
The MBP is using Skylake quad core processors since Kaby Lake is only shipping in dual core configurations. It may be 2017 before Intel ships quad-core versions of KL. You can only ship the parts that are available.
But unfortunately. I cannot see them updating these machines quickly with the new chips. Can you? Skylake will sit in the machines for far longer than it should while the price stays high ala the Mac Pro.
Apple will just soak the profit up as the chip prices fall.
I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it
People need to realize that Intel's newer CPU's are the barest improvements. Kaby Lake is just a slight tweak to Skylake, nothing more. The days of legitimate CPU improvements from Intel are over.
Intel has already announced that high end Cannonlake will be delayed even further, and Coffee Lake will be produced to fill in the gap, meaning they'll have had four CPU's on the 14nm process. (Broadwell/Skylake/Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake).
I own a software company and my developers can choose between a Dell XPS13 (Ubuntu based) and a Macbook Pro 13". The difference between a Skylake and a KabyLake Dell XPS13 is 5 hours of battery life (10 vs 15), the performance is roughly equal. The new Macbook Pro costs 40% more than an equivalent Dell XPS. In the coming weeks I will reconsidering my purchasing policy and and if it seems that the touchbar only gives a marginally productivity gain as I am fearing, I might be sticking to a Dell XPS13 only policy. Why should I keep the option open for an outdated, overpriced machine?
That's the same misguided question that compares Samsung phones to Apple phones. Looking only at the hardware is looking at just part of the picture. It ignores Apple level security and infrastructure as well as the superior Apple OS.
The prices are just incredible. I don't think I can justify this kind of expense for a laptop. They've completely price themselves out of the range of 99% of the population. More worryingly, they have priced themselves out of their future markets the classrooms and universities that are the users of the future. Computers for the 1%. Their phones are getting more expensive. The iPad has become way too expensive. iPads were such a success because nearly everyone could afford one. Now they are more expensive than most laptops and desktops. I guess I'm gonna have to learn to live with Windows 10. I use it at work and it is not so bad. Apple has completely done away with their entry and mid level computers and gone super ultra high premium. For the first time in 35 years I will have to be a Windows user. Too bad. People's memories are short. Apple has done this in the past. Over priced undifferentiated computers nearly killed the company once before. I'm a little sad to say goodbye community. It's been nice being one of you.
Exactly. I've been buying Apple since the mid 80's. Now their machines are a fortune with no entry or mid level (Apple entry and mid not Windows cheap cheap) models. Not only that but they're not really Pro machines which are upgradeable. You used to be able to buy a good Mac for $1000-$1200 and then could upgrade memory, drive etc as needed. No longer now you get ripped off by Apple's ultra premium pricing, then their outrageous ssd upgrade pricing and for all that you're stuck with those specs never being able to upgrade.
Sadly after 30+ years I will buy no more Macs unless I buy used from somewhere. It's very true that the next generation will never adopt Apple because as high school and college students the machines are way out of reach. Very shortsighted by TPTB at Apple.
All true... But, during the presentation Apple was very open about the fact that the MacBook Pro is for Pros. ... I expect Apple to come back by dumping the MacBook Air and modernizing the MacBook. ......... And, at some point, they will need to release the Apple version of a Chromebook. Otherwise, Google will wipe the floor with them.
Again, a Pro machine to me is something you can upgrade as needed and something you can easily attach peripheral devices and screens to. None of these apply to these new MacBooks.
That being said, I have no problem with them trying to sell what they consider a Pro machine at the prices. The customers will let them know how they feel by buying or not. What they are missing is the updated and useable $1000 and up tier machines. The Air is a dead duck just waiting for the bullet so why spend that kind of money on a dead device. They just gave the middle finger to 90% or more of their user base. That's not a good thing for the future of the company and its a bad business practice.
Maybe they should take a brief look at price. Even I, a 30-year Apple vet, am starting to question why Apple keeps delivering 2 year old hardware specs at 2 years from now prices.
The MBP is using Skylake quad core processors since Kaby Lake is only shipping in dual core configurations. It may be 2017 before Intel ships quad-core versions of KL. You can only ship the parts that are available.
But unfortunately. I cannot see them updating these machines quickly with the new chips. Can you? Skylake will sit in the machines for far longer than it should while the price stays high ala the Mac Pro.
Apple will just soak the profit up as the chip prices fall.
I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it
People need to realize that Intel's newer CPU's are the barest improvements. Kaby Lake is just a slight tweak to Skylake, nothing more. The days of legitimate CPU improvements from Intel are over.
Intel has already announced that high end Cannonlake will be delayed even further, and Coffee Lake will be produced to fill in the gap, meaning they'll have had four CPU's on the 14nm process. (Broadwell/Skylake/Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake).
I own a software company and my developers can choose between a Dell XPS13 (Ubuntu based) and a Macbook Pro 13". The difference between a Skylake and a KabyLake Dell XPS13 is 5 hours of battery life (10 vs 15), the performance is roughly equal. The new Macbook Pro costs 40% more than an equivalent Dell XPS. In the coming weeks I will reconsidering my purchasing policy and and if it seems that the touchbar only gives a marginally productivity gain as I am fearing, I might be sticking to a Dell XPS13 only policy. Why should I keep the option open for an outdated, overpriced machine?
That's the same misguided question that compares Samsung phones to Apple phones. Looking only at the hardware is looking at just part of the picture. It ignores Apple level security and infrastructure as well as the superior Apple OS.
Bullshit. I am using both macOs and Ubuntu for years and I have still has to discover where macOs is superior to Ubuntu. Thery are very comparable, they both have their strong points, but also their weaknesses
Comments
Do the same with MacOS and and allow trusted signed MacOS apps to host an extension to run on iOS devices. I guess there will be security restrictions like only being able to run those apps while close to the host to avoid it being a way to sideload iOS apps.
Hey it might be wishful thinking on my part but these denials sure sound like they have something planned and are deflecting.
by that I'm assuming you mean make the whole keyboard / trackpad area a touch screen (with haptic feedback of course)?
You don't need a fucking cord to sync your iPhone with your Mac. If you want one, you can already buy one. They don't "have to" be purchased.
Yes, the file system is a major difference between IOS and MacOS - but that has nothing to do with intrinsic qualities. It's simply a feature not currently available to IOS users. That could be easily fixed. On the other hand, for its regular users, IOS does just fine without it. Rather than not being there, it is tightly bound to the associated program. If you want a Numbers file, you open Numbers and there are all the files associated with it.
Exactly. I've been buying Apple since the mid 80's. Now their machines are a fortune with no entry or mid level (Apple entry and mid not Windows cheap cheap) models. Not only that but they're not really Pro machines which are upgradeable. You used to be able to buy a good Mac for $1000-$1200 and then could upgrade memory, drive etc as needed. No longer now you get ripped off by Apple's ultra premium pricing, then their outrageous ssd upgrade pricing and for all that you're stuck with those specs never being able to upgrade.
Sadly after 30+ years I will buy no more Macs unless I buy used from somewhere. It's very true that the next generation will never adopt Apple because as high school and college students the machines are way out of reach. Very shortsighted by TPTB at Apple.
But, during the presentation Apple was very open about the fact that the MacBook Pro is for Pros.
... I expect Apple to come back by dumping the MacBook Air and modernizing the MacBook.
......... And, at some point, they will need to release the Apple version of a Chromebook. Otherwise, Google will wipe the floor with them.
Again, a Pro machine to me is something you can upgrade as needed and something you can easily attach peripheral devices and screens to. None of these apply to these new MacBooks.
That being said, I have no problem with them trying to sell what they consider a Pro machine at the prices. The customers will let them know how they feel by buying or not. What they are missing is the updated and useable $1000 and up tier machines. The Air is a dead duck just waiting for the bullet so why spend that kind of money on a dead device. They just gave the middle finger to 90% or more of their user base. That's not a good thing for the future of the company and its a bad business practice.