People need to realize that Intel's newer CPU's are the barest improvements. Kaby Lake is just a slight tweak to Skylake, nothing more. The days of legitimate CPU improvements from Intel are over.
True. Gone are the good old Core times where each generation would easily provide a substantial 30% improvement over the previous. I've very little incentive to move from my 4-core Sandy Bridge to Skylake und Kaby Lake is not going to make a considerably larger dent...
None of those are adjusted for inflation, so charging $1799 and $2399 for significantly better laptops in 2016 is reasonable, and on average they're still cheaper than the historical trend.
I had a good laugh at the mentioned pricing... My first TiBook set me back a whopping $4450 (unadjusted).
None of those are adjusted for inflation, so charging $1799 and $2399 for significantly better laptops in 2016 is reasonable, and on average they're still cheaper than the historical trend.
I had a good laugh at the mentioned pricing... My first TiBook set me back a whopping $4450 (unadjusted).
Irrelevant. When calculators first came out they cost thousands. The first real pocket calculator cost hundreds. Now they're a couple of dollars. Comparing tech to early models is pointless. A better comparison is comparing the current Pro to the ones prior to the retina edition as far as price, upgradeability etc.
I own a software company and my developers can choose between a Dell XPS13 (Ubuntu based) and a Macbook Pro 13". The difference between a Skylake and a KabyLake Dell XPS13 is 5 hours of battery life (10 vs 15), the performance is roughly equal.
There's no change in hell that Skylake vs. Kaby Lake provides a 50% longer battery life in a real life world scenario. Apart from the fact that something is very off in your development picture anyway...
Our developers get to chose whatever device they like and can be most productive on. The hardware costs are totally negligible next to the cost of a developers anyway and the additional IT people required to maintain non-Mac-devices completely offset the calculation so we actually prefer if the personell opts to use Macs.
What price increase? 15" MacBook Pros have been $2349 - $2399 forever.
Nope. Maybe the models you've ever considered have been around that price, but when launched In 2012, the entry-level 15" retina MBP was $2199, and in the 2013 update this went down to $1999. I think Apple have made a serious error of judgement in removing an entry-level 15" MBP (keeping on old model and not updating the processor to the latest generation is insulting and doesn't count).
The prices are just incredible. I don't think I can justify this kind of expense for a laptop. They've completely price themselves out of the range of 99% of the population. More worryingly, they have priced themselves out of their future markets the classrooms and universities that are the users of the future. Computers for the 1%. Their phones are getting more expensive. The iPad has become way too expensive. iPads were such a success because nearly everyone could afford one. Now they are more expensive than most laptops and desktops. I guess I'm gonna have to learn to live with Windows 10. I use it at work and it is not so bad. Apple has completely done away with their entry and mid level computers and gone super ultra high premium. For the first time in 35 years I will have to be a Windows user. Too bad. People's memories are short. Apple has done this in the past. Over priced undifferentiated computers nearly killed the company once before. I'm a little sad to say goodbye community. It's been nice being one of you.
Exactly. I've been buying Apple since the mid 80's. Now their machines are a fortune with no entry or mid level (Apple entry and mid not Windows cheap cheap) models. Not only that but they're not really Pro machines which are upgradeable. You used to be able to buy a good Mac for $1000-$1200 and then could upgrade memory, drive etc as needed. No longer now you get ripped off by Apple's ultra premium pricing, then their outrageous ssd upgrade pricing and for all that you're stuck with those specs never being able to upgrade.
Sadly after 30+ years I will buy no more Macs unless I buy used from somewhere. It's very true that the next generation will never adopt Apple because as high school and college students the machines are way out of reach. Very shortsighted by TPTB at Apple.
All true... But, during the presentation Apple was very open about the fact that the MacBook Pro is for Pros. ... I expect Apple to come back by dumping the MacBook Air and modernizing the MacBook. ......... And, at some point, they will need to release the Apple version of a Chromebook. Otherwise, Google will wipe the floor with them.
Again, a Pro machine to me is something you can upgrade as needed and something you can easily attach peripheral devices and screens to. None of these apply to these new MacBooks.
That being said, I have no problem with them trying to sell what they consider a Pro machine at the prices. The customers will let them know how they feel by buying or not. What they are missing is the updated and useable $1000 and up tier machines. The Air is a dead duck just waiting for the bullet so why spend that kind of money on a dead device. They just gave the middle finger to 90% or more of their user base. That's not a good thing for the future of the company and its a bad business practice.
I think that by "Pro" they are thinking of the professional photographer and such who is happy to stay out of the hardware. I'm not trying to justify that (I tend to agree with you) -- I'm just trying to explain it.
As for the conspicuous absence of their consumer class machines? As a wise man once said "I'll Be Back!" ... Personally I am betting that MacBook will be running the "A" series processor sooner rather than later. If my guess is correct, that could be why they split the introductions apart: because the hardware is headed in different directions. (Maybe?)
Maybe they should take a brief look at price. Even I, a 30-year Apple vet, am starting to question why Apple keeps delivering 2 year old hardware specs at 2 years from now prices.
The MBP is using Skylake quad core processors since Kaby Lake is only shipping in dual core configurations. It may be 2017 before Intel ships quad-core versions of KL. You can only ship the parts that are available.
But unfortunately. I cannot see them updating these machines quickly with the new chips. Can you? Skylake will sit in the machines for far longer than it should while the price stays high ala the Mac Pro.
Apple will just soak the profit up as the chip prices fall.
I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it
People need to realize that Intel's newer CPU's are the barest improvements. Kaby Lake is just a slight tweak to Skylake, nothing more. The days of legitimate CPU improvements from Intel are over.
Intel has already announced that high end Cannonlake will be delayed even further, and Coffee Lake will be produced to fill in the gap, meaning they'll have had four CPU's on the 14nm process. (Broadwell/Skylake/Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake).
I own a software company and my developers can choose between a Dell XPS13 (Ubuntu based) and a Macbook Pro 13". The difference between a Skylake and a KabyLake Dell XPS13 is 5 hours of battery life (10 vs 15), the performance is roughly equal. The new Macbook Pro costs 40% more than an equivalent Dell XPS. In the coming weeks I will reconsidering my purchasing policy and and if it seems that the touchbar only gives a marginally productivity gain as I am fearing, I might be sticking to a Dell XPS13 only policy. Why should I keep the option open for an outdated, overpriced machine?
That's the same misguided question that compares Samsung phones to Apple phones. Looking only at the hardware is looking at just part of the picture. It ignores Apple level security and infrastructure as well as the superior Apple OS.
Bullshit. I am using both macOs and Ubuntu for years and I have still has to discover where macOs is superior to Ubuntu. Thery are very comparable, they both have their strong points, but also their weaknesses
People need to realize that Intel's newer CPU's are the barest improvements. Kaby Lake is just a slight tweak to Skylake, nothing more. The days of legitimate CPU improvements from Intel are over.
True. Gone are the good old Core times where each generation would easily provide a substantial 30% improvement over the previous. I've very little incentive to move from my 4-core Sandy Bridge to Skylake und Kaby Lake is not going to make a considerably larger dent...
True! And that will have a YUGE effect on the entire PC industry once others realize what you have realized....
The prices are just incredible. I don't think I can justify this kind of expense for a laptop. They've completely price themselves out of the range of 99% of the population. More worryingly, they have priced themselves out of their future markets the classrooms and universities that are the users of the future. Computers for the 1%. Their phones are getting more expensive. The iPad has become way too expensive. iPads were such a success because nearly everyone could afford one. Now they are more expensive than most laptops and desktops. I guess I'm gonna have to learn to live with Windows 10. I use it at work and it is not so bad. Apple has completely done away with their entry and mid level computers and gone super ultra high premium. For the first time in 35 years I will have to be a Windows user. Too bad. People's memories are short. Apple has done this in the past. Over priced undifferentiated computers nearly killed the company once before. I'm a little sad to say goodbye community. It's been nice being one of you.
Exactly. I've been buying Apple since the mid 80's. Now their machines are a fortune with no entry or mid level (Apple entry and mid not Windows cheap cheap) models. Not only that but they're not really Pro machines which are upgradeable. You used to be able to buy a good Mac for $1000-$1200 and then could upgrade memory, drive etc as needed. No longer now you get ripped off by Apple's ultra premium pricing, then their outrageous ssd upgrade pricing and for all that you're stuck with those specs never being able to upgrade.
Sadly after 30+ years I will buy no more Macs unless I buy used from somewhere. It's very true that the next generation will never adopt Apple because as high school and college students the machines are way out of reach. Very shortsighted by TPTB at Apple.
All true... But, during the presentation Apple was very open about the fact that the MacBook Pro is for Pros. ... I expect Apple to come back by dumping the MacBook Air and modernizing the MacBook. ......... And, at some point, they will need to release the Apple version of a Chromebook. Otherwise, Google will wipe the floor with them.
Again, a Pro machine to me is something you can upgrade as needed and something you can easily attach peripheral devices and screens to. None of these apply to these new MacBooks.
That being said, I have no problem with them trying to sell what they consider a Pro machine at the prices. The customers will let them know how they feel by buying or not. What they are missing is the updated and useable $1000 and up tier machines. The Air is a dead duck just waiting for the bullet so why spend that kind of money on a dead device. They just gave the middle finger to 90% or more of their user base. That's not a good thing for the future of the company and its a bad business practice.
I think that by "Pro" they are thinking of the professional photographer and such who is happy to stay out of the hardware. I'm not trying to justify that (I tend to agree with you) -- I'm just trying to explain it.
As for the conspicuous absence of their consumer class machines? As a wise man once said "I'll Be Back!" ... Personally I am betting that MacBook will be running the "A" series processor sooner rather than later. If my guess is correct, that could be why they split the introductions apart: because the hardware is headed in different directions. (Maybe?)
If they're targeting the pro photographer how the heck do they get rid of the SD slot? It's almost like they're trying to kill the Mac and are flipping everyone the middle finger.
Good grief people Macs are worth far more than the alternatives. My current MBP is a few years old now, still a good production machine cost me £2199 and I thought it was cheap when I bought it. I'd rather spend £3k on a Mac than £1k on a Dell. The £ has been really strong, now it's really weak and the dollar is really strong. What else was going to happen. Adapt or die!
"You can't try to turn MacOS into an iPhone," Schiller added. "Conversely, you can't turn iOS into a Mac.... So each one is best at what they're meant to be -- and we take what makes sense to add from each, but without fundamentally changing them so they're compromised."
I don't get the logic there... Yes, tablets and laptops ARE different and will not merge well. But Schiller is talking about software, not hardware configurations. Yes, IOS is touchscreen and MacOS is mouse driven. That does not mean that they could not be merged into one OS that recognizes both without compromising either one. Yes, MS tried and failed dramatically with Windows 8, but then MS fails at most things. That certainly does not mean Apple could not pull it off.
There is no logical reason why an IPad could not be connected to a mouse & keyboard and perform well. The result would be the death of the MacBook. Not the MacBook Pro, but the MacBook. It would become immediately redundant.
I get the feeling Schiller is speaking from an ideological standpoint rather than a technological one. Jobs would kick his butt.
Steve Jobs would never kill the MacBook for a "keyboard operated" iPad. As a fanless full macOS computer the Retina MacBook is as big a breakthrough as the iPad. Besides, there is a more fundamental difference between iOS and macOS: the user experience does not include the file system in iOS. You cannot hide and unhide the file system based on the interaction method. If you do, then you share the fate of Windows 8...
1. But didn't Apple say at WWDC that they were going to introduce a new file system for both iOS and macOS. I think that the two will converge but it will take at least 6-8 years. There's probably a lot of plumbing that they have to do first. It may be that someday iOS will be a subset of macOS and iOS apps will be able to run on a touch screen macbook. Maybe the convergence will result in a laptop machine that has both an A16 chip and an intel Core M chip based on the 7 nm architecture for legacy apps.
2. It may take a year or two for touch strips be added to the MB, iMAC on a new keyboard, and MP.
3. The new magic touch strip on the MacPro begs the question: Should't the Smart Keyboard for the iPad Pro have a Magic touch strip? iPad updates will probably stretch to once every two years. We've yet to see multi-user support in the iPad even when iPads have had touchID buttons for a long time that can be used for instantaneous switching between users.
4. I like the Surface as a light laptop but it's probably used as a tablet much less than a PC. The iPad is just so much better in that respect. And the fact that the iPad supports an internal cell modem makes it so much more mobile and enables a different kind of app.
Agreed. The price is an issue. Having spoke to two extremely knowledgeable people this evening one who works for Apple. The response was disbelief and pure laughter from the other.
The price is very difficult to justify. Certainly in the UK at the moment. A like for like model is £600 more expensive overnight. Making the spec of machine I was wanting to order £3300 when it was £2700.
Its too much, I can see our clients scaling down.
Part of me thinks that is what Apple wants. Kill of the Mac lineups slowly by pricing people out of them.
Pleasant even if it is only lip service to hear they expect the laptop to stay. Shame they can't be bothered to update the Mac Mini and the other one.
They were open about one thing during the presentation: MacBook Pros are for Pros... The pros will pay because their livelihood depends on having the tools they need.
Nope, no they won't.
At least not as long as Apple tries to throw a semi-professional machine at them for pro-prices.
Professionals care about ports and expandability: Cutting all the existing ports that are still widely used, and replacing them with Two (or even 4) USB-C ports isn't going to cut it.
Professionals care about performance and future proofing. Not updating the machines for years, and limiting them to 16 GBs of RAM won't cut it either. Especially when there are thin and light Windows machines with 32GB RAM available.
Professionals don't mind paying for quality, but don't want to get gauged for old hardware. And they care more for battery life, than shaving off 2mm or 200 grams of an already thin and light machine.
You really think it's an coincidence Mac sales are slipping? It's not.
Comments
Irrelevant. When calculators first came out they cost thousands. The first real pocket calculator cost hundreds. Now they're a couple of dollars. Comparing tech to early models is pointless. A better comparison is comparing the current Pro to the ones prior to the retina edition as far as price, upgradeability etc.
Our developers get to chose whatever device they like and can be most productive on. The hardware costs are totally negligible next to the cost of a developers anyway and the additional IT people required to maintain non-Mac-devices completely offset the calculation so we actually prefer if the personell opts to use Macs.
As for the conspicuous absence of their consumer class machines? As a wise man once said "I'll Be Back!"
... Personally I am betting that MacBook will be running the "A" series processor sooner rather than later. If my guess is correct, that could be why they split the introductions apart: because the hardware is headed in different directions. (Maybe?)
If they're targeting the pro photographer how the heck do they get rid of the SD slot? It's almost like they're trying to kill the Mac and are flipping everyone the middle finger.
2. It may take a year or two for touch strips be added to the MB, iMAC on a new keyboard, and MP.
3. The new magic touch strip on the MacPro begs the question: Should't the Smart Keyboard for the iPad Pro have a Magic touch strip? iPad updates will probably stretch to once every two years. We've yet to see multi-user support in the iPad even when iPads have had touchID buttons for a long time that can be used for instantaneous switching between users.
4. I like the Surface as a light laptop but it's probably used as a tablet much less than a PC. The iPad is just so much better in that respect. And the fact that the iPad supports an internal cell modem makes it so much more mobile and enables a different kind of app.
At least not as long as Apple tries to throw a semi-professional machine at them for pro-prices.
Professionals care about ports and expandability: Cutting all the existing ports that are still widely used, and replacing them with Two (or even 4) USB-C ports isn't going to cut it.
Professionals care about performance and future proofing. Not updating the machines for years, and limiting them to 16 GBs of RAM won't cut it either. Especially when there are thin and light Windows machines with 32GB RAM available.
Professionals don't mind paying for quality, but don't want to get gauged for old hardware. And they care more for battery life, than shaving off 2mm or 200 grams of an already thin and light machine.
You really think it's an coincidence Mac sales are slipping? It's not.