Kuo: Demand for new MacBook Pro models tepid due to high prices, disappointing specs

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 211
    xbitxbit Posts: 340member
    Sadly, I can't see it selling well in the UK with such a high price. That's not Apple'a fault though, it's the fault of the tanking pound after the EU referendum result. :(
    ration aldysamoria
  • Reply 42 of 211
    ...I wish we could run our MacOS of choice, for compatibility, and get AppleCare support for such,
    rather than new hardware forcing users onto the barely out of beta Sierra...

    Other than tabs I can't see a feature I find compelling enough to implement by choice for working,
    and tabs existed in the pre X days in more primitive windowed form, so to me kind of a throwback, if useful...

    Siri, Photos (scans), iCloud (and thus Handoff/Copy), Storage all seem legitimate potential privacy risks.
    Anything iCloud is actually technically illegal by statute (privacy) where I work (jurisdictional storage only),
    so a local, internal private server iCloud might be the only way to solve this limitation...?
    Auto Login requires the watch. ApplePay requires iPhone 6+/watch. Emoji is a feature? Really?
    Could these features really sales drivers, and some actually work distractions,
    or even ways Apple can keep tabs on us, or building out an AI database...?

    Improved memory management, power efficiency & better retina graphics aside,
    if I could run even Snow @ 4x the speed (ie. on new hardware) I think I'd be happier, a buyer and focussed on the work,
    vs risking unknown issues, lost legacy app/file/data access & potential peripheral obsolescence...

    edited November 2016 duervo
  • Reply 43 of 211
    xbitxbit Posts: 340member
    Maybe the flak that Apple are getting for Intel's problems will hasten the move to ARM MacBooks?
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 44 of 211
    Rayz2016 said:

    All Apple needed to do was offer a MacBook Pro with 32 GB of RAM. 

    THATS IT. 

    And theyd fly fly off the preorder shelves. 

    But instead we we get a stupid choice forced upon us with no option to choose one over the other. 

    A quiet update ASAP with 32 GB BTO option or as a standard option would fix this.

    The sooner the better. Next month would be great. 

    The limitation is down to the Intel chipset which only supports 16GB

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/31/intels-chip-design-not-apples-choices-reason-behind-thunderbolt-3-ram-issues-in-new-macbook-pro

    Changing this now now would involve redesigning the laptop internals for a different chipset using desktop RAM and a larger battery. This would lead to redesign of the case to make the new setup cool properly. This, in turn, would require retooling the assembly line machinery. I'm not an expert, but this doesn't sound like something that Apple is going to fix 'next month'. 

    Perhaps, as calmer minds have already suggested, it would be better to wait for real world test results before joining in the group hysteria. 

    According to Apple, this crappy, underpowered, memory-starved, out-of-date laptop can drive two 5k monitors alongside its own Retina display. I think I'll wait to see the machine in action before writing it off. 
    It's amazing to me that some think it's this simple. As you rightly point out it's clearly not. Apple's never offered 32GB option in the past. What did this vocal minority do? How did they survive? 
    netmageration albig
  • Reply 45 of 211
    misamisa Posts: 827member
    Noted KGI analyst Ming-Chi Kuo sees slow demand for Apple's recently released MacBook Pro with Touch Bar models, as the notebooks ship at higher than expected prices and present disappointing specifications to core Mac users.

    ...

    As AppleInsider noted earlier today, the recently released MacBook Pro series is powered by Intel's Skylake class of processors with LPDDR3 memory, a specification that supports up to 16GB RAM. Next-generation Cannonlake CPUs that efficiently run LPDDR4 RAM at higher allotments are scheduled for release in time for next year's MacBook update. If Intel fails to ship Cannonlake on time, however, Apple will likely turn to Coffee Lake, which features the same LPDDR3 specifications as Skylake.
    The unfortunate problem with analysts is that while they may have some insight by reading the comments on AI and MacRumors and various other tech sites, they don't know the context of the comments because they're not going to spend a week reading these. They spend 10 minutes to get the direction of the comments and that's it.

    The complaints about USB-C isn't that it's USB-C, it's that the Dual-core models don't have 4 full-bandwidth connectors. People aren't really going to be be pissed off about any thing except having to buy a USB-C hub to plug their USB devices in.


  • Reply 46 of 211
    appexappex Posts: 687member
    Bring Intel Kaby Lake, SDXC with extra pins supporting maximum read/write speed (300 MB/s) and MagSafe power adapter.
  • Reply 47 of 211
    I for one am very dissapointed with the specs. I have a MacBook Pro 2012 with almost the same specs. Why would i want to buy this? Does it have OLED 4K true tone display? No. Does it have fast storage. Yes. Ok. Does it have 32 GB ram option? No. How? Again - 2012 MacBook Pro - same spec. Does it have TB3? Yes. Do Apple Stores have PRO TB3 devices? No? Are you kidding Apple? Seriously, i don't know? New MacBook Pro? Drop that "Pro" Apple! since your user portfolio with these type of devices are not Professionals any more. SAD. We made Apple what it is.
    alphafoxdysamoria
  • Reply 48 of 211
    AI: please stop regurgitating the dribblings of this trumped up numpty
    dysamoria
  • Reply 49 of 211
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,716member
    jdw said:
    The cause of the hysteria among us is the fact the MBP hasn't been updated in a long time, and those of us who were hoping for something better are now deciding what to do.  Apple will update to Kaby Lake or higher, but the question is when?  Will it really be in June of 2017?  If Apple's track record is considered, they probably won't put anything major in the machine in June.  It will probably be a minor speed bump, keeping Skylake.  They love holding the big updates for October for some reason.  Maybe a lackluster sales quarter or two would make them change their tune, but it's unlikely.  As such, we may not get 32GB and a better CPU until next October.  That's another 12 months and is a long time for those of us who have been waiting a long time to update already.

    But even if Kaby Lake brings us 32GB RAM, that change alone is still not enough to win over people who traditionally have loved the MBP, in my opinion.  I am one of those people who can live without the glowing logo, live without the power on chime, live without all the ports, and live without a good keyboard (although I will be complaining the whole time I use that silly new keyboard tech).  I could even live without the silly headphone jack.  But I draw the line at the SD card slot.  At least when you kill the old ports with "a new port that can be any port" you have replaced one thing for another.  But killing the SD card slot is replacing something useful with nothing at all.  Even if you need a dongle for an old USB cable to attach to the new USBC, the fact is you were planning to plugin something anyway, so that dongle won't matter.  But in the case of an SD card, you were planning to put the card inside your computer to read it.  Now you need a dongle reader, and you may not always have that reader with you.  But you may have your camera with you.  And what of those people who like to add storage by using an always-in SD?  Those people too are out of luck.  And even if I wait another year, am I to expect that "minimalist" Apple will restore the SD card slot, at any price?  I would hope that plenteous feedback and lackluster sales would punish Apple into changing its mind, but they can be very stubborn about such things, especially with Johnny Ive wielding so much power at Apple.

    And that is why so many people are in mourning now.  If a lot of functionality had been retained, I doubt there would be as much complaining about the price increases.  But when key functionality is removed AND prices go up, then people will naturally eyeball that large price in shock and dismay.

    By the way, I have found that more people in the AppleInsider forums tend to defend Apple's choices, regardless of bad those choices are, but people in the MacRumors forum tend to be more open about expressing their criticism.  I wonder if it is because we have a DISLIKE button here at AppleInsider whereas there is only a LIKE button at MacRumors.  Regardless, I find that more people are discussing this issue in the MacRumors forum.  The pool of feedback is larger there, and I am seeing most comments are strongly negative.  In fact, pretty much wherever I go online I am seeing the negatives, even in YouTube reviews.  It's only when I come here or watch the Apple event that I see something more upbeat.  But anyone objectively viewing this must admit there's a rather dark cloud over this MBP update.  And the only thing to remove that cloud is a change of heart by Apple.  It's not like our cameras will suddenly sprout WIFI and our peripherals will spontaneously convert to USBC connections.  Apple may want to advance us in their direction, but it appears they've crossed the line with this update.  I'm deeply saddened by that.
    Macrumors has been a fetid swamp for half a decade. Whether that is due to the removal of the dislike button is speculative, but it's a waste of time going to the forums for all the noise.

    More to the point, most buyers of Mac Book Pro's will be happy with the specs, and removal of previous features will have little actual sales impact.

    The MBP is the right product for the current market, will be spot on with Cannonlake, and Apple isn't going to build a mobile product with a desktop processor, which is what would be required today to meet the 32 GB RAM requirement that is being demanded.
    williamlondonpscooter63brucemcration al
  • Reply 50 of 211
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    xbit said:
    Sadly, I can't see it selling well in the UK with such a high price. That's not Apple'a fault though, it's the fault of the tanking pound after the EU referendum result. :(
    That's nothing. You should see the price hike on Marmite :-(

    kudu
  • Reply 51 of 211
    mr omr o Posts: 1,046member
    The prices have got to change, haven't they?

    Right now the 13 inch Macbook Pro without touch bar is cannibalizing the 12 inch Macbook. So, it is the Macbook that has got to get cheaper.

    Having said that, the 1.500 $ 13 inch Macbook Pro without Touch bar needs to be replaced with a true 13 inch Pro machine with Touch bar.

    >:x
  • Reply 52 of 211
    Underwhelming and overpriced. I need 32GB RAM as I use a lot (I'm always maxing out my 2012 MBPR at 16GB RAM). And I use the card reader a lot as well since I'm a photographer. 4 TB3 ports and no card reader? Really? At least include several adapters in the box so we can use all of our existing devices without shelling out even more money. You can include it in the higher prices you're charging. Or at least give us some kind of option (another Pro model with other ports or a build-to-order option). Disappointing.
    dysamoriaduervo
  • Reply 53 of 211
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,168member
    I for one am very dissapointed with the specs. I have a MacBook Pro 2012 with almost the same specs. Why would i want to buy this? Does it have OLED 4K true tone display? No. Does it have fast storage. Yes. Ok. Does it have 32 GB ram option? No. How? Again - 2012 MacBook Pro - same spec. Does it have TB3? Yes. Do Apple Stores have PRO TB3 devices? No? Are you kidding Apple? Seriously, i don't know? New MacBook Pro? Drop that "Pro" Apple! since your user portfolio with these type of devices are not Professionals any more. SAD. We made Apple what it is.

    Ah. The specs dorks. I thought we'd got rid of them ten years ago. Except now, they come from lala-land, apparently. 

    Oddly, the 2012 MacBooks Pro are roundly out-performed by LOWER-specced MBPs from 2013, let alone 2014 and '15. 
    https://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks
    Specs must not mean all that much. 

    I've only been able to find a single 4K OLED - a Dell -, and I have no idea whether it's Truetone. But it's fucking FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS just for the display. 

    Edit: scratch that. I found a Sony 4K OLED that just became available this October. FORTY THOUSAND EUROS. 

    As for "Pro" Thunderbolt 3 devices available at Apple Stores...half a week after release... heh. You funny guy. Funny sad. 
    edited November 2016 williamlondonrob55tmaynetmagepscooter63brucemcration al
  • Reply 54 of 211
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Rayz2016 said:

    All Apple needed to do was offer a MacBook Pro with 32 GB of RAM. 

    THATS IT. 

    And theyd fly fly off the preorder shelves. 

    But instead we we get a stupid choice forced upon us with no option to choose one over the other. 

    A quiet update ASAP with 32 GB BTO option or as a standard option would fix this.

    The sooner the better. Next month would be great. 

    The limitation is down to the Intel chipset which only supports 16GB

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/31/intels-chip-design-not-apples-choices-reason-behind-thunderbolt-3-ram-issues-in-new-macbook-pro

    Changing this now now would involve redesigning the laptop internals for a different chipset using desktop RAM and a larger battery. This would lead to redesign of the case to make the new setup cool properly. This, in turn, would require retooling the assembly line machinery. I'm not an expert, but this doesn't sound like something that Apple is going to fix 'next month'. 

    Perhaps, as calmer minds have already suggested, it would be better to wait for real world test results before joining in the group hysteria. 

    According to Apple, this crappy, underpowered, memory-starved, out-of-date laptop can drive two 5k monitors alongside its own Retina display. I think I'll wait to see the machine in action before writing it off. 
    It's amazing to me that some think it's this simple. As you rightly point out it's clearly not. Apple's never offered 32GB option in the past. What did this vocal minority do? How did they survive? 
    They survived because until they heard other people say it, they had no idea that their current 16GB Apple laptop was causing them serious problems. It's like some reversed version of the Emperor's New Clothes. 

    edited November 2016 williamlondontmaybrucemc
  • Reply 55 of 211
    If he is right, then there will not be very many disappointed customers to complain about this years purchase, when the new processor Macbook Pros are released next year. /s Apple does not yet create their own laptop processors so they were held back by Intel. Perhaps they should have taken steps years ago to address this like they did for the iPhone.
  • Reply 56 of 211
    Rayz2016 said:
    Rayz2016 said:

    All Apple needed to do was offer a MacBook Pro with 32 GB of RAM. 

    THATS IT. 

    And theyd fly fly off the preorder shelves. 

    But instead we we get a stupid choice forced upon us with no option to choose one over the other. 

    A quiet update ASAP with 32 GB BTO option or as a standard option would fix this.

    The sooner the better. Next month would be great. 

    The limitation is down to the Intel chipset which only supports 16GB

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/31/intels-chip-design-not-apples-choices-reason-behind-thunderbolt-3-ram-issues-in-new-macbook-pro

    Changing this now now would involve redesigning the laptop internals for a different chipset using desktop RAM and a larger battery. This would lead to redesign of the case to make the new setup cool properly. This, in turn, would require retooling the assembly line machinery. I'm not an expert, but this doesn't sound like something that Apple is going to fix 'next month'. 

    Perhaps, as calmer minds have already suggested, it would be better to wait for real world test results before joining in the group hysteria. 

    According to Apple, this crappy, underpowered, memory-starved, out-of-date laptop can drive two 5k monitors alongside its own Retina display. I think I'll wait to see the machine in action before writing it off. 
    It's amazing to me that some think it's this simple. As you rightly point out it's clearly not. Apple's never offered 32GB option in the past. What did this vocal minority do? How did they survive? 
    They survived because until they heard other people say it, they had no idea that their current 16GB Apple laptop was causing them serious problems. It's like some reversed version of the Emperor's New Clothes. 

    Exactly. No one has yet presented a real world example where these new laptops couldn't meet their needs. They're just going off of specs and internet freakout. 
    tmay
  • Reply 57 of 211
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    If he is right, then there will not be very many disappointed customers to complain about this years purchase, when the new processor Macbook Pros are released next year. /s Apple does not yet create their own laptop processors so they were held back by Intel. Perhaps they should have taken steps years ago to address this like they did for the iPhone.

    And here we again we have someone else who thinks that new technology just falls off trees. Do you have any idea how long it's taken and how much it's cost Intel to run into this wall: decades and billions. 

    The fact that Apple has reached a point where their mobile processors are within shouting distance of desktop processors is a testament to their engineering talent, their patience, their desire to take risks. 

    Last week I said that Apple was moving too slowly. Reading the comments here, I now see that Apple is moving so fast that there is a small vocal cut of its customers who are just going to have to be left behind. 

    If prefer paper specs to real world performance. 
    If you don't believe wireless is the way forward. 
    If you are determined to hang on to your old SCSI drives no matter what. 
    If you believe that you need to buy every single dongle Apple sells, whether you have a device that goes at the other end or not. 

    Then save yourself from a lot whining going forward by leaving the platform now. I do not believe they're going to change their minds and start sticking the ports back in. 

    Jeez, everyone is screaming for more wiring, and I'm wondering why I still need a cable to connect my laptop to a monitor. 
    tmaypscooter63sphericadonissmu
  • Reply 58 of 211
    They just need to remove the obsolete Macbook Air from the list. That prevents all the models from getting into their appropriate price slots. Remove the Macbook Air, put the Retina Macbook in its $999 slot, then pull down all the remaining models' prices accordingly. But apparently they fear that such an abrupt ending of the popular Macbook Air would be disruptive. They're not wrong totally, because we all know that buyer behaviour is irrational (no offense). Just one example: everyone has a 4K capable smartphone, so the $1300 4K capable Retina Macbook with its 256 GB SSD should sell like cake, right? But not so, the owners of those 4K capable smartphones buy the obsolete 4K capable Macbook Air (unsuited to the 4K leisure with its 128 GB) because it is $300 cheaper !.. Would they buy an obsolete smartphone for $300 less? Absolutely not.

    So they should have the "courage" to remove the obsolete Macbook Air from the list as soon as the new models were announced. Their lack of courage coupled with irrational buyer behaviour leaves us with such irrational prices.

    If I'm wrong with my insight then all the models are in their correct price slots so nothing to complain about...
    edited November 2016 adonissmu
  • Reply 59 of 211
    The new 13" MacBook Pro with Touch Bar is on my "BUY LIST."  Although, it would be nice if Intel would get off it's lazy ass.  The Sky Lake processors are nearly identical to the Broadwell processor I have in my 2015 13" MacBook Pro.  And the Kaby Lake processors (to be released early next year) are an even smaller upgrade over Sky Lake.  Cannon Lake will be Intel's first 10nm processor, but it appears that will be reserved for the 15W (Y Series) and 5.2W (Core M) chips - not the performant 28W U-Series chips with Iris PRO graphics normally found in the 13" MacBook Pro.  Leaks have revealed that Intel is planning to release a product called Coffee Lake,  that will finally add more processing cores to improve multi threaded performance, but  these might be on 14nm process once again and there is no guarantee the 28W U-Series parts will move beyond having only two cores and 4 threads.  This could mean that any significant processor upgrade for the 2015 13" MacBook Pro may not happen until early 2019 - well over two years away !!!

    People bitching about specs need to realize that Apple is doing all they can to move the MacBook Pro line forward.  Intel should buy everyone at Apple a beer for introducing a compelling new product smack in the middle of their well-planned epoch of mostly-minor product updates. 
    macplusplusration al
  • Reply 60 of 211
    No one cares if this machine sets a sales record. Millions and millions of people are going to buy it for many many reasons. No one is trying to set sales records. They're just trying to make and use great tools.
    ration al
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