Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
The 32gb thing is kind of silly. There are very, very few things that currently require 32gb. Even editing a 4k feature film on Final Cut. If you want to edit on a laptop, you're using proxy footage and then rendering on a desktop and/or render farm when you're done.
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
...I think it is a mistake for Apple (and those Panglossian Apple fans who reflexively defend everything Apple does) to believe that just because these high-end customers are not a majority of consumers that they don't matter. Partly they matter because some of these folks are Apple's most die hard fans -- the ones who evangelize Apple products and provide support to family and friends. Partly they matter because while every individual niche represents a minority of users, it could very well be that the some of all the minorities is a majority. ...
I am sorry, but this part made me almost spit out my coffee. You are saying that most of those who are complaining on this issue are Apple's most "die hard" fans? On this forum and others I read, the commenters (very much including you) almost never have positives to say about Apple. You guys have been complaining about Apple's products and services for as long as I have been reading here (over a decade).
Someday maybe you will understand the difference between being "critical" and being negative. I will give you a hint - the critical part involves thinking, looking at multiple angles of the issue, seeing the pros & cons. The other involves being an a$$hole.
Apple does not have a normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop. That is a major oversight since that is what almost everybody who is not a professional film editor wants, no? Normal price is $ 1,200 - $ 1,300. Am I wrong?
There are a variety of needs among Apple's customers. I don't doubt that these new laptops meet the needs of many (perhaps even a majority) of Apple's customers.
But the new machines are clearly a disappointment to many (probably not a majority) of Apple's high-end customers.
I think it is a mistake for Apple (and those Panglossian Apple fans who reflexively defend everything Apple does) to believe that just because these high-end customers are not a majority of consumers that they don't matter. Partly they matter because some of these folks are Apple's most die hard fans -- the ones who evangelize Apple products and provide support to family and friends. Partly they matter because while every individual niche represents a minority of users, it could very well be that the some of all the minorities is a majority.
Speaking strictly as an owner many AAPL shares, I think Apple needs to figure out how to provide a broader product range. I don't think they should pursue low margin or "cheap" products, but I do think they should be more open to pursuing low volume (but high margin) products that are direct offshoots of their more high volume products. For example, they need more than one basic Mac Pro configuration and they need to update it more than every 3 to 4 years. As another example, I think it was a mistake to kill off Apple-branded monitors.
What's interesting to me is how many of the internet based complaints are from people who identify themselves as software professionals who constantly run VMs etc. for comprehensive software testing, but they're dismissing the 2016 MBP without even trying it first. Those two things don't go together: "I constantly test things for a living" and "I'm making a snap judgement about something I haven't used".
The first iMac actually was a piece of $h!T. It got a lot better in Rev. B and forward, with the addition of Firewire 400 and a memory upgrade port, but Rev A (Bondi Blue) was less capable than the machine it replaced (the Power Mac G3), and it was a total pain to replace the flaky optical drive. Still, they looked great and sold like hotcakes, and they were groundbreaking. Loss of the floppy was not such a big deal (though many people complained) because it was already useless, but there was no large capacity storage media available at the time that worked with USB, so that sucked. I think the new MacBook Pros are priced pro and aimed at consumers. But they will make money, gradually improve, and probably sell well. The actual pro market is too small for Apple to care about.
igorsky said: You just blew the minds of every serial Apple complainer on the internet. Although this will surely not satisfy that user who feels that his/her personal use case should be everyone's personal use case.
I was complaining about the lack of a 32GB option and I'm still complaining about the lack of a 32GB option.
I understand why, but that still doesn't change the fact that I need the extra RAM and that's why, as Schiller said, "That it might not be right for everyone on day one."
As such, I really have no choice but to wait for Apple and Intel to deliver the product I need.
And just for the record, I don't feel that my use case is everyone's use case. I do, however, know what my use case demands and my complaint (and those of others) was that there wasn't a 32GB OPTION. Just like some people need more disk space and may pop for a 1TB option, or play games and may pop for the graphics card upgrade.
"The card was excised because of the "path forward" with more generic physical card readers, or the growing implementation of wireless transfer.
Schiller says that the 3.5mm headphone jack was retained for professionals with audio gear that do not have wireless solutions, and still need the jack for macOS." So, the "professional" solution to mass storage is wireless, but professionals don't have access to BT headphones. It's getting deep in the spin room.
Many sound "professionals" use the 3.5mm sound jack for more things than just headphones. Many of these things do not have wireless versions.
Larger installed base + pent up demand + update = record orders.
Any real surprise?
out of date + stingy memory + higher price + no lightning + no USB-A + gimmicky touchbar + no HDMI + no DVI + no DisplayPort + no VGA + no parallel port + no chipset that hasn't been released yet + no SCSI interface + widespread internet bitching = record orders??
You are saying that most of those who are complaining on this issue are Apple's most "die hard" fans? On this forum and others I read, the commenters (very much including you) almost never have positives to say about Apple.
You either have not been paying attention or, despite your claim to the contrary, you really don't understand what honest, constructive criticism looks like.
When there are positive things to say about Apple, I say them. Sometimes there are months, even years, in which my comments are almost entirely positive. During those periods of time, some accuse me of being an Apple fanboy. Then there are periods of time when I have negative things to say about Apple. Sometimes those periods of time last for months or even years. During those periods of time, people like you think I'm a hater. But in both instances, I'm just reacting to the facts (as I see them) that are in front of me.
Apple does not have a normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop. That is a major oversight since that is what almost everybody who is not a professional film editor wants, no? Normal price is $ 1,200 - $ 1,300. Am I wrong?
Yes!
2.7GHz Processor 128GB Storage
2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1866MHz memory
128GB PCIe-based SSD1
Intel Iris Graphics 6100
Two Thunderbolt 2 ports
$1,299.00
sorry. let me correct myself: normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop, with enough storage space so that I can save more than 2 movies and an iPhone back-up on it....
Changing the goalposts to fit your moan, fair enough Get a MacBook with 256GB storage for the same price?
Apple does not have a normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop. That is a major oversight since that is what almost everybody who is not a professional film editor wants, no? Normal price is $ 1,200 - $ 1,300. Am I wrong?
Yes!
2.7GHz Processor 128GB Storage
2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1866MHz memory
128GB PCIe-based SSD1
Intel Iris Graphics 6100
Two Thunderbolt 2 ports
$1,299.00
sorry. let me correct myself: normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop, with enough storage space so that I can save more than 2 movies and an iPhone back-up on it....
Apple still sells the 2015 retina MacBook Pro, JUST FOR YOU.
Apple does not have a normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop. That is a major oversight since that is what almost everybody who is not a professional film editor wants, no? Normal price is $ 1,200 - $ 1,300. Am I wrong?
Yes!
2.7GHz Processor 128GB Storage
2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1866MHz memory
128GB PCIe-based SSD1
Intel Iris Graphics 6100
Two Thunderbolt 2 ports
$1,299.00
sorry. let me correct myself: normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop, with enough storage space so that I can save more than 2 movies and an iPhone back-up on it....
Apple still sells the 2015 retina MacBook Pro, JUST FOR YOU.
igorsky said: You just blew the minds of every serial Apple complainer on the internet. Although this will surely not satisfy that user who feels that his/her personal use case should be everyone's personal use case.
I was complaining about the lack of a 32GB option and I'm still complaining about the lack of a 32GB option.
I understand why, but that still doesn't change the fact that I need the extra RAM and that's why, as Schiller said, "That it might not be right for everyone on day one."
As such, I really have no choice but to wait for Apple and Intel to deliver the product I need.
And just for the record, I don't feel that my use case is everyone's use case. I do, however, know what my use case demands and my complaint (and those of others) was that there wasn't a 32GB OPTION. Just like some people need more disk space and may pop for a 1TB option, or play games and may pop for the graphics card upgrade.
Here's the thing that I suspect we would be hearing, if Apple chose an older or less efficient desktop processor for the new rMBP, just so they could offer up the 32GB's of ram you want. "I can't believe Apple is using a X year old processor." Or, "Apple should have made the new rMBP 2" thick, so they could include bigger batteries to go with the less efficient processors, so I can do the computing I need / want."
It's a no-win situation for Apple, especially when they are relying on other manufacturers who are clearly not moving lock-step with Apple. It will be really interesting to see and read the Apple bashing, when they dump Intel and start offering up their own desktop / laptop processor designs.
The first iMac actually was a piece of $h!T. It got a lot better in Rev. B and forward, with the addition of Firewire 400 and a memory upgrade port, but Rev A (Bondi Blue) was less capable than the machine it replaced (the Power Mac G3), and it was a total pain to replace the flaky optical drive. Still, they looked great and sold like hotcakes, and they were groundbreaking. Loss of the floppy was not such a big deal (though many people complained) because it was already useless, but there was no large capacity storage media available at the time that worked with USB, so that sucked.
The iMac replaced the G3 All-In-One, not the Power Mac. Rev. A and B were both Bondi blue, and actually pretty neat, and plenty fast for the time (I had a . Revision C came in colours. FireWire wasn't added until Revision D.
As much as I am in the MacBookPro NotForMe camp, the iPhone 7 rationally chose to not go USB-C; it is a mass-market device and the infrastructure is not in place for it to be a seamless transition. The impact of screwing up on the iPhone is huge.
It is also unreasonable to complain about the lack of a USB-A port built in-- much for the same reason: you need to send a clear message that C is coming and the market needs to get ready. In a year or two, this might mean airports actually have USB-C ports for charging and you don't even need your power supply... I can dream.
The rational complaints I see are limited to two very specific items: the lack of an included C-to-A adapter, and the lack of an Apple-branded dock (ideally a few versions) that "just works."
Personally, for security reasons I don't like plugging everything into a USB-C port; it is a huge attach surface and no-named devices now live on it between my power supply, Ethernet, display... and maybe even keyboard. That eliminates any hope for security or even a properly controlled environment. I am shocked that Apple didn't do better here. But, 99.9% of people are oblivious to this, so there is no market reason to improve...
What's interesting to me is how many of the internet based complaints are from people who identify themselves as software professionals who constantly run VMs etc. for comprehensive software testing, but they're dismissing the 2016 MBP without even trying it first. Those two things don't go together: "I constantly test things for a living" and "I'm making a snap judgement about something I haven't used".
I fit that category and I said so on a different thread. But I ALSO said that I do not expect a notebook to fit that need anytime in the near future. That's because of the inherent limitations necessary to make a notebook portable. I only chimed in to point out that if you actually need more than 16GB of RAM (and I'll add now, on a regular basis) then memory swapping, even to an SSD, is not always sufficient.
I reject the MacBook Pro as my primary computer because my primary computer is not a market that notebook computers are, nor should they be, designed for. Why do you think that's unreasonable?
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
It's not that black/white.
There are a variety of needs among Apple's customers. I don't doubt that these new laptops meet the needs of many (perhaps even a majority) of Apple's customers.
But the new machines are clearly a disappointment to many (probably not a majority) of Apple's high-end customers.
I think it is a mistake for Apple (and those Panglossian Apple fans who reflexively defend everything Apple does) to believe that just because these high-end customers are not a majority of consumers that they don't matter. Partly they matter because some of these folks are Apple's most die hard fans -- the ones who evangelize Apple products and provide support to family and friends. Partly they matter because while every individual niche represents a minority of users, it could very well be that the some of all the minorities is a majority.
Speaking strictly as an owner many AAPL shares, I think Apple needs to figure out how to provide a broader product range. I don't think they should pursue low margin or "cheap" products, but I do think they should be more open to pursuing low volume (but high margin) products that are direct offshoots of their more high volume products. For example, they need more than one basic Mac Pro configuration and they need to update it more than every 3 to 4 years. As another example, I think it was a mistake to kill off Apple-branded monitors.
A high-end customer is the one who is technically mature enough to not depend on Apple and able to find her/his way around. Not those whining about adapters at every product launch. And they matter to Apple since Apple releases products capable of answering even the most challenging technical demands as seen with Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro and of course the hardware range.
That broader product range was the catastrophe of the 90s bringing Apple to the point of extinction: laserwriters, stylewriters, crappy cameras overlapping and inconsistent tower and desktop models... Apple will not go back to these days.
Low volume but high margin products are a feature of vertical markets. There are system integrators, turnkey solution sellers to do that. Apple is not in that business. Apple will not be a Sun, DEC, Compaq, HP either. Apple produces for the mass market, not for vertical markets. Vertical markets prefer Apple products because they are the best, not because they are specifically produced for vertical markets. There will not be a broad range of Mac Pro. Apple provides one expandable power core. The system integrator people take that core and expand it with several solutions to build complete powerhouses for their customers. There are so many talented PC-guys out there that even if they don't know anything about Apple, they can expose a complete wizardry when it comes to building an Apple based solution.
So, that high-end customer everyone pretends to be is an urban legend. There are just customers with myriads of different needs.
"The card was excised because of the "path forward" with more generic physical card readers, or the growing implementation of wireless transfer.
Schiller says that the 3.5mm headphone jack was retained for professionals with audio gear that do not have wireless solutions, and still need the jack for macOS."
So, the "professional" solution to mass storage is wireless, but professionals don't have access to BT headphones. It's getting deep in the spin room.
Professional storage is now SSD, XQD, CFast or SDXC. Only one of which was supported by the reader in the older MBP. Losing it will be annoying more for consumers than pros.
None of the best closed back or open back studio headphones are bluetooth because bluetooth data rates compromises on sound quality.
When Sennheiser replaces their HD280 pro series and Sony replaces their MDR-7506 series with bluetooth versions then Apple can retire the 3.5mm headphone jack.
Comments
The 32gb thing is kind of silly. There are very, very few things that currently require 32gb. Even editing a 4k feature film on Final Cut. If you want to edit on a laptop, you're using proxy footage and then rendering on a desktop and/or render farm when you're done.
Someday maybe you will understand the difference between being "critical" and being negative. I will give you a hint - the critical part involves thinking, looking at multiple angles of the issue, seeing the pros & cons. The other involves being an a$$hole.
What's interesting to me is how many of the internet based complaints are from people who identify themselves as software professionals who constantly run VMs etc. for comprehensive software testing, but they're dismissing the 2016 MBP without even trying it first. Those two things don't go together: "I constantly test things for a living" and "I'm making a snap judgement about something I haven't used".
Any real surprise?
I understand why, but that still doesn't change the fact that I need the extra RAM and that's why, as Schiller said, "That it might not be right for everyone on day one."
As such, I really have no choice but to wait for Apple and Intel to deliver the product I need.
And just for the record, I don't feel that my use case is everyone's use case. I do, however, know what my use case demands and my complaint (and those of others) was that there wasn't a 32GB OPTION. Just like some people need more disk space and may pop for a 1TB option, or play games and may pop for the graphics card upgrade.
Many sound "professionals" use the 3.5mm sound jack for more things than just headphones. Many of these things do not have wireless versions.
Thompson
out of date + stingy memory + higher price + no lightning + no USB-A + gimmicky touchbar + no HDMI + no DVI + no DisplayPort + no VGA + no parallel port + no chipset that hasn't been released yet + no SCSI interface + widespread internet bitching = record orders??
I think your maths is a little off.
When there are positive things to say about Apple, I say them. Sometimes there are months, even years, in which my comments are almost entirely positive. During those periods of time, some accuse me of being an Apple fanboy. Then there are periods of time when I have negative things to say about Apple. Sometimes those periods of time last for months or even years. During those periods of time, people like you think I'm a hater. But in both instances, I'm just reacting to the facts (as I see them) that are in front of me.
It's a no-win situation for Apple, especially when they are relying on other manufacturers who are clearly not moving lock-step with Apple. It will be really interesting to see and read the Apple bashing, when they dump Intel and start offering up their own desktop / laptop processor designs.
It is also unreasonable to complain about the lack of a USB-A port built in-- much for the same reason: you need to send a clear message that C is coming and the market needs to get ready. In a year or two, this might mean airports actually have USB-C ports for charging and you don't even need your power supply... I can dream.
The rational complaints I see are limited to two very specific items: the lack of an included C-to-A adapter, and the lack of an Apple-branded dock (ideally a few versions) that "just works."
Personally, for security reasons I don't like plugging everything into a USB-C port; it is a huge attach surface and no-named devices now live on it between my power supply, Ethernet, display... and maybe even keyboard. That eliminates any hope for security or even a properly controlled environment. I am shocked that Apple didn't do better here. But, 99.9% of people are oblivious to this, so there is no market reason to improve...
I reject the MacBook Pro as my primary computer because my primary computer is not a market that notebook computers are, nor should they be, designed for. Why do you think that's unreasonable?
That broader product range was the catastrophe of the 90s bringing Apple to the point of extinction: laserwriters, stylewriters, crappy cameras overlapping and inconsistent tower and desktop models... Apple will not go back to these days.
Low volume but high margin products are a feature of vertical markets. There are system integrators, turnkey solution sellers to do that. Apple is not in that business. Apple will not be a Sun, DEC, Compaq, HP either. Apple produces for the mass market, not for vertical markets. Vertical markets prefer Apple products because they are the best, not because they are specifically produced for vertical markets. There will not be a broad range of Mac Pro. Apple provides one expandable power core. The system integrator people take that core and expand it with several solutions to build complete powerhouses for their customers. There are so many talented PC-guys out there that even if they don't know anything about Apple, they can expose a complete wizardry when it comes to building an Apple based solution.
So, that high-end customer everyone pretends to be is an urban legend. There are just customers with myriads of different needs.
None of the best closed back or open back studio headphones are bluetooth because bluetooth data rates compromises on sound quality.
When Sennheiser replaces their HD280 pro series and Sony replaces their MDR-7506 series with bluetooth versions then Apple can retire the 3.5mm headphone jack.