Just gives more fuel to the fire that making iPhones in the USA is a good idea.
More then $200 more on the base price iPhone is just crazy. To get a Plus version with 256 gig's will be like $1500. Who's going to pay these kind of prices? I'm not going to pay $880 for a lowest end iPhone. I'd have to go to the crap Android Platform.
You don't seem to understand the gravity of this situation. The Android phones are all made outside of the US. That means that they, too, will have a tariff placed upon them. While they may be seen as less expensive, the days of a "free phone" from any provider would be over.
That said, I'm all for bringing manufacturing back to the US. Will that provide jobs in assembly? Probably not. But it'll sure as hell provide jobs working on all of the robotics and other equipment. Any job created in this sector is a good thing if it happens here in the US. That's a few more robotics engineers hired. That's logistics people hired. That's janitorial staff hired. That's more solar added to the grid (because we all know Apple would have panels on top). That's jobs here in this country rather than somewhere else. As for everyone complaining that products would be too expensive, that's the Walmart mentality and I'm not at all interested in going "cheap". My 256GB iPhone 7 Plus cost me $969 before taxes. I paid it without worry. If it goes up to $1500, I'll pay that too. If all of the individual electronic components end up with tariffs on them, manufacturing of those components will spin up here in the US as well, considering the consumer base of those components are used in would reach beyond Apple into all of the electronics that people purchase that would also be impacted by the tariffs. That means that the components won't be shipped here and just assembled in the US to skirt the tariffs. The individual components would also have tariffs placed upon them raising the cost of them to match what it would cost to manufacture them here (that's what tariffs are for after all - leveling the playing field so that products produced outside the country end up costing the same as products produced within the country). Bring that manufacturing to the US. As for the Chinese doing their own cost-benefit analysis, I'm not at all surprised that they would find moving manufacturing outside of China to be a bad thing. It's precisely the same stance we have.
The L.A. Times did a story on tariffs that you all might find particularly enlightening. You can read it here:
I see this as nothing but a good thing for the US and the people whom live here. It's a whole lot of jobs created here. I'll let the Chinese worry about themselves.
Actually a robot production factory makes much more sense than a self driving car fantasy... At its present state their Liam the Robot only knows how to destroy an iPhone not how to assemble it but, we believe in progress, don't we? Cars are everywhere... Maybe such an industrial robotics project may also contribute to the production of household robots bound to HomeKit, who knows?
the more excuses we hear about how hard/expensive it is the more reason we should be working hard to make it happen. not having self sufficiency in critical high tech devices in our own country is a HUGE risk if god forbid we ever have a world war again. people need to understand assembly cost is a very small portion of the cost of our devices. the majority of the cost is component cost, R&D, and marketing costs.
This is such an important point! We have become arrogant because of the relative peace we have had for many years. While a global economy is a fabulous idea in theory, when you consider the effect of a global economy in a less than perfect world it becomes tainted. There are some who believe that America cannot sustain and survive the effects the global economy is already having. When you consider the effect a global crisis could potentially have the problem is taken to a completely new level. The more we do locally the stronger we will be in the bigger picture.
Just gives more fuel to the fire that making iPhones in the USA is a good idea.
More then $200 more on the base price iPhone is just crazy. To get a Plus version with 256 gig's will be like $1500. Who's going to pay these kind of prices? I'm not going to pay $880 for a lowest end iPhone. I'd have to go to the crap Android Platform.
The L.A. Times did a story on tariffs that you all might find particularly enlightening. You can read it here:
I see this as nothing but a good thing for the US and the people whom live here. It's a whole lot of jobs created here. I'll let the Chinese worry about themselves.
So the US should levy a tariff against China because Chinese worker safety and environmental regulations aren't as strict as the US's? That's one of the 5 points to the author's arguments. I don't disagree with the fact about their regulations, but it's a bit arrogant (fitting Trump's personality) to assume that the US has the right to dictate such terms to another. What's next, China slaps a tariff on any US goods entering their country because US workers are threatened by our lax gun control laws resulting in violence against workers?
The other claims in the article may be valid (currency manipulation, export subsidies, etc), but that still doesn't mean the US could get away with his proposed 45% tariff without expecting some retaliation. That's the problem with Trump, he expects he can do whatever he wants because he's basically gotten away with it all his life. His tried and true tactic of threatening lawsuits or declaring bankruptcy to make problems go away simply isn't going to work here.
If economic retaliation isn't a viable option for China their next option would be to aggressively accelerate their moves to take over the South China sea and put a strangle-hold on all trade in the region. It's not a simple linear problem to solve. There are many, many dimensions that have to be balanced.
we also can consider imposing taxes on goods from other countries that have ridiculously low minimum wages. that will force other countries to stop exploiting their people for politician and elite profits at the same time helping to make our country more competitive.
World War II (with Japan) was caused by a trade war. China won't allow societal collapse without making the US pay heavily for engaging in a trade war. That probably includes engaging in a shooting war because if you're faced with losing control because of economic collapse you have nothing left to lose from the standpoint of the ruling body. They'll take all of the spratleys and probably invade Taiwan since they'll need a huge distraction for the populace.
As far as the wages go, the cost of living is lower which is why the wages are lower. The average Foxconn worker gets $2/hr (relatively high for factory workers) and the average household (across all of China) has a savings rate of 30%...in comparison to a 5-6% in the US.
Trump is a moron who does not having a clue - and has made America the laughing stock of the world. He is quite simply "a bad person" with no redeeming qualities. He pulled the old republican jedi mind-trick on the poor uneducated "deplorables" - they are the ones going to get completely screwed. No health care, a polluted environment, and their pickup trucks will cost more when he tears up NAFTA. Do they really think coal is coming back? No-one wants to buy their frigging coal. Remember global-warming?
Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it. Trade-wars and tariffs lead to international conflict and never lead to an improved economy.
Serious question: Why would it cost more to make iPhones with robots in the USA than it would in China?
Robots don't run themselves. They have to be installed and maintained. The facilities they are in have to be run. The trucks that deliver the raw materials in and the finished goods out have to be driven. Utilities, property and local taxes. Insurance is certainly not a minimal difference either, along with OSHA compliance. It adds up and all must be considered.
Just gives more fuel to the fire that making iPhones in the USA is a good idea.
Uh, so that Apple isn't caught flat-footed when President (Elect) Trump and the Republican Congress legislate new tariffs, if they actually do that. Apple needs to know what the costs are.
Even then, I would note that these would only be shipped and sold within the U.S. and possible Canadian markets, and competitors would have the same tariff hurdle. The tradeoff is higher prices against increased U.S. jobs, but those jobs aren't going to the rust belt without subsidies, so yet again, cost increases. Most of the jobs will end up in Southern population centers, Texas primarily, and those jobs will go to first and second generation Hispanic Americans, who will be more accepting of a lower wage base.
It's not a question of "if" it's going to happen. It's going to happen. It was a cornerstone part of the Trump pledge.
The republican congress is never going to pass tarrifs.
No, they aren't, but Apple is just getting prepared to make the case.
I would imagine that any significant tarrifs levied against China would result in some sort of trade war, and eventually a real war. It's not a debt thing - China only holds 8% of our debt. It's more of a "why hurt ourselves to try and hurt China?" thing.
China will need to open their markets more or they will be affected by drastically increased tariffs. Let there also be no doubt that the US would also be severely impacted since we have become far, far too dependent on China for manufacturing thanks to one-sided trade deals and their own homegrown protectionism.
When I was a kid and needed back to school clothes I recall buying a pair of purple striped bellbottom pants in 1970 for the shocking price of $15. The other day I passed the window of one of those Express clothing stores and they had adult men's jean 2 pairs for $30. Please ask yourself how is this possible, and who is paying for our cheap and endless consumerism?
Supply chain is all about constant revision, so it seems obvious they'd investigate it - if only to have a more precise answer for why it's not technically prudent.
It's also a good back up plan should an arbitrary tariff be enacted against China - tariffs can be dodged to some extent by moving parts of production to tariff free zones.
They don't have to. The President has the power to implement limited tariffs without Congressional approval.
News Flash: Apple Corp. moves company Headquarters to Geneva. Apple now a Swiss Corporation.
What then, a world-wide Trade War?
Apple is and will always remain an American corporation. Tim Cook is not retarded.
No matter what happens to the world, the good news is that Americans will continue to be able to buy Apple products.
The rest of the world can go and use spyware infected Android phones for all I care.
Once the price of all phones goes up, probably cheaper Android ones would become more popular in the US. Don't kid yourself that Americans are buying Apple because it's American. It's full of Asian parts, assembled in China. It's no more American than an Android phone.
Just gives more fuel to the fire that making iPhones in the USA is a good idea.
More then $200 more on the base price iPhone is just crazy. To get a Plus version with 256 gig's will be like $1500. Who's going to pay these kind of prices? I'm not going to pay $880 for a lowest end iPhone. I'd have to go to the crap Android Platform.
I do love to say today: I told you so before ! Apple can very quickly move parts of the iPhone manufacturing back to the United States, and provide jobs locally. Looking forward to hold an iPhone Made in America in my hands. And I happily will pay a few bucks more for it, just for the better quality and the support of America. Smart move by Apple ! It is a great idea to start to make products locally again - from violation of IP to shorter shipments times it's a win/win.
Laughable! Americans do not know how to manufacture quality products look at Cars, computers, furniture, etc etc. Btw, where are you going to find the Mexicans to work in such factories if you build the wall and deport those who are here. Americans wont take those jobs.
"Laughable! Americans do not know how to manufacture quality products look at Cars, computers, furniture, etc etc. "
We make some very nice cars, also jetliners, spacecraft, Mac Pros and the Fender Custom Shop makes beautiful guitars. Then again, we make millions of BigMacs everyday.
"Laughable! Americans do not know how to manufacture quality products look at Cars, computers, furniture, etc etc. "
We make some very nice cars, also jetliners, spacecraft, Mac Pros and the Fender Custom Shop makes beautiful guitars. Then again, we make millions of BigMacs everyday.
No iPhone or android phone for that matter has ever been made in the US. So, it's not like you would be bringing jobs back. They never were here in the first place. Perhaps the next big thing could be manufactured anew here in the US. Maybe Trump would like to subsidize the purchase price of a Apple Car!
Comments
No matter what happens to the world, the good news is that Americans will continue to be able to buy Apple products.
The rest of the world can go and use spyware infected Android phones for all I care.
That said, I'm all for bringing manufacturing back to the US. Will that provide jobs in assembly? Probably not. But it'll sure as hell provide jobs working on all of the robotics and other equipment. Any job created in this sector is a good thing if it happens here in the US. That's a few more robotics engineers hired. That's logistics people hired. That's janitorial staff hired. That's more solar added to the grid (because we all know Apple would have panels on top). That's jobs here in this country rather than somewhere else. As for everyone complaining that products would be too expensive, that's the Walmart mentality and I'm not at all interested in going "cheap". My 256GB iPhone 7 Plus cost me $969 before taxes. I paid it without worry. If it goes up to $1500, I'll pay that too. If all of the individual electronic components end up with tariffs on them, manufacturing of those components will spin up here in the US as well, considering the consumer base of those components are used in would reach beyond Apple into all of the electronics that people purchase that would also be impacted by the tariffs. That means that the components won't be shipped here and just assembled in the US to skirt the tariffs. The individual components would also have tariffs placed upon them raising the cost of them to match what it would cost to manufacture them here (that's what tariffs are for after all - leveling the playing field so that products produced outside the country end up costing the same as products produced within the country). Bring that manufacturing to the US. As for the Chinese doing their own cost-benefit analysis, I'm not at all surprised that they would find moving manufacturing outside of China to be a bad thing. It's precisely the same stance we have.
The L.A. Times did a story on tariffs that you all might find particularly enlightening. You can read it here:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-navarro-trump-trade-china-tariffs-20160721-snap-story.html
I see this as nothing but a good thing for the US and the people whom live here. It's a whole lot of jobs created here. I'll let the Chinese worry about themselves.
The other claims in the article may be valid (currency manipulation, export subsidies, etc), but that still doesn't mean the US could get away with his proposed 45% tariff without expecting some retaliation. That's the problem with Trump, he expects he can do whatever he wants because he's basically gotten away with it all his life. His tried and true tactic of threatening lawsuits or declaring bankruptcy to make problems go away simply isn't going to work here.
If economic retaliation isn't a viable option for China their next option would be to aggressively accelerate their moves to take over the South China sea and put a strangle-hold on all trade in the region. It's not a simple linear problem to solve. There are many, many dimensions that have to be balanced.
As far as the wages go, the cost of living is lower which is why the wages are lower. The average Foxconn worker gets $2/hr (relatively high for factory workers) and the average household (across all of China) has a savings rate of 30%...in comparison to a 5-6% in the US.
Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it. Trade-wars and tariffs lead to international conflict and never lead to an improved economy.
It's already happening anyway:
Btw, where are you going to find the Mexicans to work in such factories if you build the wall and deport those who are here. Americans wont take those jobs.
We make some very nice cars, also jetliners, spacecraft, Mac Pros and the Fender Custom Shop makes beautiful guitars.
Then again, we make millions of BigMacs everyday.