Colbert's 'Late Show' skewers cost, content of Apple's new design book

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 73
    lmaclmac Posts: 206member
    Apple's self-admiration society is run amok. They deserve all the ridicule they're getting for producing a book of their past glories and charging $300 for it. I think this is the result of a bet between Tim and Jony that the fanboys will buy anything Apple makes, no matter how useless, no matter the price. Still, it is in line with Apple pricing.
    blastdoorentropysdysamoria
  • Reply 42 of 73
    sandor said:
    dysamoria said:
    Seriously? A $200/$300 book? WTAF. 
    https://www.taschen.com/

    Exactly. The $700 version of Gisele Bundchen's modeling career retrospective sold out almost immediately. These are specialty items for book collectors. 
  • Reply 43 of 73
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    I think I paid between $25–30 for Dan Brown's Inferno when it was released. This Apple book is a much better deal.
    randominternetpersondasanman69
  • Reply 44 of 73
    Personally, I purchased the book as soon as it went on sale, and I had to make arrangements in another country as it isn't available in Canada. I don't see the issue with it's existence. Is this the reason there is no Mac Pro update? I doubt it. Ive isn't the first person around Apple to have a vanity project if you see it like that. 
    Solibaconstang
  • Reply 45 of 73
    The latest edition of Miskin, Principles of Economics sells for $355.47 at Amazon right now. That is a mainstream economics text for college freshmen. Other college textbooks sell for about that same price. They shouldn't, but they do.

    So making a $300 book into a joke means that Stephen Colbert is a few years behind the times. But I bet old people laugh. I guess that's his target audience.
  • Reply 46 of 73
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,357member
    command_f said:
    Hey, the sketch was comedy, not documentary. It was funny (well I thought it was) but it says nothing about the book, good or bad.
    Ah, finally someone who knows the difference between a sketch and a skit.

    I, too, don't understand all the whining. Talk about self-indulgent, the whining comes from people who are crying 'Apple isn't giving ME what I what, so they're failing and DOOMED! Out with cook out with Ive!' They're doing well for the 90%'ers. While I'm not happy with some things, it doesn't mean Apple 'has no clue' etc.

    Certainly a lot of posters here don't get Apple's design philosophy and so claim it defective. But to those who actually understand and appreciate design, I think this book tells a story to those who don't already know how deeply Apple think about it, but have the capacity to appreciate and understand it.

    Clearly many of the posters have no clue regarding books about design, their cost, or their purpose. Hubris? That's laughable, at best.

    Love it, ignore it, buy it or not, but why waste so much energy and emotion hating on it? That's a preference, not a necessity.
    randominternetpersonbaconstang
  • Reply 47 of 73
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,357member
    jibberj said:
    Ive isn't the first person around Apple to have a vanity project if you see it like that. 
    Obviously, detractors chose to. But I see this as not merely 'this is what we've done' but 'this is why we chose to do what we do'.

    Not everybody will see that, and this book isn't for everybody. I don't know how many Apple is planning to sell, but I'll bet once it's gone there won't be a reprint.
    baconstang
  • Reply 48 of 73
    blastdoor said:

    blastdoor said:
    foggyhill said:
    Most specialized Texbooks are $200+.
    Coffee table books are always quite expensive too.

    Most people .talking about this have no clue and are not the target audience for this.
    They probably never bought a book over $30..

    Man, Colbert's show is now a piece of shit.


    So... Apple is in the textbook business now? Or the coffee table book business? 

    The Mac Pro is too niche to bother updating, but the opportunities in the coffee table book industry are worth pursuing? 

    The issue here is that this book is a giant waste of time for any Apple employee with any meaningful responsibility for anything (like, for example, Jony Ive). It's vanity, it's navel gazing, it's a distraction. It's not something that a person focused on changing the world would do. It's something to do at the end of a career, or it's something to outsource. 

    If this is how Ive wants to spend his time these days he should really just retire, or maybe become an advisor. Let someone else step into the role of lead designer. 

    No, they just made a book. Most Industry Creative books cost what Apple is charging. 

    Apple has many employees, and plenty of resources. Creating a book is literally NOTHING in the grand scheme of their business, and has absolutely no impact on the rest of they business. 

    But exaggeration, distortion, and irrationality is the order of the day for Apple trolls, so...      Lol, really. 



    You won't find a better designed phone, with a better ecosystem on the market. 

    You won't find a better designed laptop, with a better ecosystem, on the market. 

    You won't find anything better designed and better supported from cradle to grave in nearly every area in which Apple competes. 

    The numbers all bear this out. The annual consumer satisfaction metrics bear this out. Apple's sheer brand power and cachet (supported by what stands behind it) bears this out, irrespective of whether some folks happen to personally prefer one iteration of a product over another. 

    Been this way for years and years now. 
    There are a lot of small things that are literally nothing compared to everything else Apple does. For example -- the Mac Pro. 

    So why doesn't Apple just go and do all of those small things? 

    The answer used to be "focus" -- the ability to say "no". 



    Because their market does not consist solely of AppleInsider user "blastdoor."

    It's up to them what they do or don't do. There is no way everyone can be made happy. There is no way everyone's personal needs will be addressed. It often costs way more to target a minority of the market than it does to address a wider audience while still mantaining quality, usability, and cachet.

    You just need think beyond your three feet of personal space.
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 49 of 73
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,278member
    blastdoor said:

    blastdoor said:
    foggyhill said:
    Most specialized Texbooks are $200+.
    Coffee table books are always quite expensive too.

    Most people .talking about this have no clue and are not the target audience for this.
    They probably never bought a book over $30..

    Man, Colbert's show is now a piece of shit.


    So... Apple is in the textbook business now? Or the coffee table book business? 

    The Mac Pro is too niche to bother updating, but the opportunities in the coffee table book industry are worth pursuing? 

    The issue here is that this book is a giant waste of time for any Apple employee with any meaningful responsibility for anything (like, for example, Jony Ive). It's vanity, it's navel gazing, it's a distraction. It's not something that a person focused on changing the world would do. It's something to do at the end of a career, or it's something to outsource. 

    If this is how Ive wants to spend his time these days he should really just retire, or maybe become an advisor. Let someone else step into the role of lead designer. 

    No, they just made a book. Most Industry Creative books cost what Apple is charging. 

    Apple has many employees, and plenty of resources. Creating a book is literally NOTHING in the grand scheme of their business, and has absolutely no impact on the rest of they business. 

    But exaggeration, distortion, and irrationality is the order of the day for Apple trolls, so...      Lol, really. 



    You won't find a better designed phone, with a better ecosystem on the market. 

    You won't find a better designed laptop, with a better ecosystem, on the market. 

    You won't find anything better designed and better supported from cradle to grave in nearly every area in which Apple competes. 

    The numbers all bear this out. The annual consumer satisfaction metrics bear this out. Apple's sheer brand power and cachet (supported by what stands behind it) bears this out, irrespective of whether some folks happen to personally prefer one iteration of a product over another. 

    Been this way for years and years now. 
    There are a lot of small things that are literally nothing compared to everything else Apple does. For example -- the Mac Pro. 

    So why doesn't Apple just go and do all of those small things? 

    The answer used to be "focus" -- the ability to say "no". 



    Because their market does not consist solely of AppleInsider user "blastdoor."

    It's up to them what they do or don't do. There is no way everyone can be made happy. There is no way everyone's personal needs will be addressed. It often costs way more to target a minority of the market than it does to address a wider audience while still mantaining quality, usability, and cachet.

    You just need think beyond your three feet of personal space.
    So your argument hinges on me being the only member of humanity wanting a new Mac Pro? 

    You've got a little something called: Courage. 
  • Reply 50 of 73
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,166member
    jibberj said:
    Personally, I purchased the book as soon as it went on sale, and I had to make arrangements in another country as it isn't available in Canada. I don't see the issue with it's existence. Is this the reason there is no Mac Pro update? I doubt it. Ive isn't the first person around Apple to have a vanity project if you see it like that. 
    This is all true.  
    This book certainly isn't the reason Apple's desktops haven't been updated, the reason there appears to be a lack of coordination between the Mac team and the iPhone team (no lightning to USBC connector in the box or even bigger, a lightning port on the new MBP?), the reason people are complaining about the little things like the loss of iconic Apple features like MagSafe and the lit up Apple logo that delight users,or the reason the MBPs are so expensive, or the reason the Airpods weren't released alongside the new iPhone 7.

    but it certainly serves as a symbol of those things, a symbol of expense, an indulgent video about a book which implys what the designers have been doing instead of focussing on macs, a beautiful hardcover lap of honour of past glories at a time they are copping shit, a symbol implying that Apple's best years are behind it, and people like Ive are now focussed on their memoirs and legacy. None of this is probably reality, but that doesn't matter.

    This book smells like Hubris, hence it is ripe for parody and derision.
    edited November 2016 avon b7
  • Reply 51 of 73
    If this was an Ive vanity project it wouldn't be for sale in Apple stores and it wouldn't be on the front page of apple.com. 
  • Reply 52 of 73
    entropys said:
    jibberj said:
    Personally, I purchased the book as soon as it went on sale, and I had to make arrangements in another country as it isn't available in Canada. I don't see the issue with it's existence. Is this the reason there is no Mac Pro update? I doubt it. Ive isn't the first person around Apple to have a vanity project if you see it like that. 
    This is all true.  
    This book certainly isn't the reason Apple's desktops haven't been updated, the reason there appears to be a lack of coordination between the Mac team and the iPhone team (no lightning to USBC connector in the box or even bigger, a lightning port on the new MBP?), the reason people are complaining about the little things like the loss of iconic Apple features like MagSafe and the lit up Apple logo that delight users,or the reason the MBPs are so expensive, or the reason the Airpods weren't released alongside the new iPhone 7.

    but it certainly serves as a symbol of those things, a symbol of expense, an indulgent video about a book which implys what the designers have been doing instead of focussing on macs, a beautiful hardcover lap of honour of past glories at a time they are copping shit, a symbol implying that Apple's best years are behind it, and people like Ive are now focussed on their memoirs and legacy. None of this is probably reality, but that doesn't matter.

    This book smells like Hubris, hence it is ripe for parody and derision.
    Good grief sometimes I swear people think the only employees at Apple are Ive's design team. Apple's design team is around 20 individuals. Compare that to the thousands of employee in its hardware/software engineering and operations teams. 20 designers don't run the company.
    Soli
  • Reply 53 of 73
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    Apple has an entire department dedicated to the business of making beautiful coffee table books for anyone who orders one. Publish directly from Photos app. Not sure what the fuss is about them making one for themselves. 
    Soliking editor the grate
  • Reply 54 of 73
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    entropys said:
    jibberj said:
    Personally, I purchased the book as soon as it went on sale, and I had to make arrangements in another country as it isn't available in Canada. I don't see the issue with it's existence. Is this the reason there is no Mac Pro update? I doubt it. Ive isn't the first person around Apple to have a vanity project if you see it like that. 
    This is all true.  
    This book certainly isn't the reason Apple's desktops haven't been updated, the reason there appears to be a lack of coordination between the Mac team and the iPhone team (no lightning to USBC connector in the box or even bigger, a lightning port on the new MBP?), the reason people are complaining about the little things like the loss of iconic Apple features like MagSafe and the lit up Apple logo that delight users,or the reason the MBPs are so expensive, or the reason the Airpods weren't released alongside the new iPhone 7.

    but it certainly serves as a symbol of those things, a symbol of expense, an indulgent video about a book which implys what the designers have been doing instead of focussing on macs, a beautiful hardcover lap of honour of past glories at a time they are copping shit, a symbol implying that Apple's best years are behind it, and people like Ive are now focussed on their memoirs and legacy. None of this is probably reality, but that doesn't matter.

    This book smells like Hubris, hence it is ripe for parody and derision.

    I read something a Medium post the other day that tried to explain to Mark Zuckerberg why no one saw the election result coming. It turns out it's the same reason that no one saw the Brexit vote coming and why no one understands why Apple continues to sell stuff by the truckload when they're removing such vital features such as a light-up logo and a magnetic plug.

    People run their lives on the internet where they hang around social media groups with people who reinforce their own narrow point of view, because just like in real life, why would you hang around with people who constantly disagree with you? Your friends think like you and you don't know anyone who might think differently, and that's pretty much how social media works. But now, the problem is magnified because all your social interactions are carried out online, so it is far easier to seek out people who won't disagree with you. You hate that Apple has removed the light-up logo, so you will naturally gravitate towards social media groups where you will find other people who attach similar importance to the light-up logo. More people join until you all convince yourselves that the loss of the light-up logo is a sure sign that Apple is doomed. Of course, what none of you realise is that Apple (and indeed, every other tech company) does not build its strategies around relatively small social media groups. 

    What does Apple's target market think of the light-up logo? That is the real question. A friend of mine didn't even realise it lit up! He'd never seen it! Why? Because when the lid is closed, it doesn't light up, and when the lid is open, he can't see it. But the real reason he didn't know was because he's in Apple's target market so he doesn't waste his time hanging around social media groups. He also doesn't like the start-up chime because he takes a lot of trains and it's the loudest thing in the quiet carriage. 

    The really odd thing though, is the inconsistency of the arguments that surround Apple. Here's a prime example; you complain that Apple producing a book  that celebrates its designs, and then complain that they're getting rid of a logo that lights up? One could easily argue that a light-up logo is hubris too, since it celebrates the company without actually adding anything functional.

    The reason the Airpods weren't released alongside the iPhone7 is because they weren't ready. If they released them and they failed then you'd be complaining about Apple releasing products without testing them.

    The reason there is no lightning port on the new Macs is anyone's guess to be honest. My own would be that as far as Apple is concerned, the lightning port is for charging, not for listening, and so there's no real reason to add it to the Mac since they will use USB-C for charging and so a lightning port would be there to listen to one particular kind of headset only made by two or three companies. 

    The reason that light-up logo went is because they new screen technology would have made it difficult to keep. No doubt you think that making sticking with old technology in favour of the light-up logo is justified.

    The magsafe, I'm afraid, is a complaint that has grown for the reasons I mentioned above: people grouping together and generating a lot of noise which is amplified by the usual internet echo chamber; claiming that they constantly trip over cables and drag their Macs off desks. Can it happen? Sure. Should we forgo the advantages of USB-C because of it? No.

    But what about the timing of the book. Now? With everything that is going on? They do this now?

    Well, when then? Because since Steve Jobs died, every operation decision made by Tim Cook and every design decision made by Jonny Ive has been pulled apart and criticised all over the internet. This is form over function! They have changed too much! They are not innovating enough! This will never sell! What? It's selling like hot cakes?It's just pent up demand! It bend if you burst an artery trying to break it! This is too locked down! This isn't secure!

    Fact is there would be no good time to release this book, because there is no time when people aren't whining about something or other. But in releasing it now, they have cleverly hit two markets:

    Folk who appreciate their designs, or are just interested in design, or just want a book that will probably appreciate in value are going to buy it. And at the same time, Apple has smiled at its detractors and given them a book that says, 'Well, look at that; we’re still here.'

    For folk such as you, it's a very British, very understated, superbly designed and meticulously finished middle finger.

    edited November 2016 Soli
  • Reply 55 of 73
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,166member
    entropys said:
    jibberj said:
    Personally, I purchased the book as soon as it went on sale, and I had to make arrangements in another country as it isn't available in Canada. I don't see the issue with it's existence. Is this the reason there is no Mac Pro update? I doubt it. Ive isn't the first person around Apple to have a vanity project if you see it like that. 
    This is all true.  
    This book certainly isn't the reason Apple's desktops haven't been updated, the reason there appears to be a lack of coordination between the Mac team and the iPhone team (no lightning to USBC connector in the box or even bigger, a lightning port on the new MBP?), the reason people are complaining about the little things like the loss of iconic Apple features like MagSafe and the lit up Apple logo that delight users,or the reason the MBPs are so expensive, or the reason the Airpods weren't released alongside the new iPhone 7.

    but it certainly serves as a symbol of those things, a symbol of expense, an indulgent video about a book which implys what the designers have been doing instead of focussing on macs, a beautiful hardcover lap of honour of past glories at a time they are copping shit, a symbol implying that Apple's best years are behind it, and people like Ive are now focussed on their memoirs and legacy. None of this is probably reality, but that doesn't matter.

    This book smells like Hubris, hence it is ripe for parody and derision.
    Good grief sometimes I swear people think the only employees at Apple are Ive's design team. Apple's design team is around 20 individuals. Compare that to the thousands of employee in its hardware/software engineering and operations teams. 20 designers don't run the company.
    Yes, that is what I am saying.  It isn't real, it's the symbolism.  It looks like Ive is more interested in legacying himself that focussing on product design. If the company was hitting home runs on a wide front more power to them. But at the moment they are not. So this indulgence opens the company up for ridicule.
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 56 of 73
    blastdoor said:
    blastdoor said:

    blastdoor said:
    foggyhill said:
    Most specialized Texbooks are $200+.
    Coffee table books are always quite expensive too.

    Most people .talking about this have no clue and are not the target audience for this.
    They probably never bought a book over $30..

    Man, Colbert's show is now a piece of shit.


    So... Apple is in the textbook business now? Or the coffee table book business? 

    The Mac Pro is too niche to bother updating, but the opportunities in the coffee table book industry are worth pursuing? 

    The issue here is that this book is a giant waste of time for any Apple employee with any meaningful responsibility for anything (like, for example, Jony Ive). It's vanity, it's navel gazing, it's a distraction. It's not something that a person focused on changing the world would do. It's something to do at the end of a career, or it's something to outsource. 

    If this is how Ive wants to spend his time these days he should really just retire, or maybe become an advisor. Let someone else step into the role of lead designer. 

    No, they just made a book. Most Industry Creative books cost what Apple is charging. 

    Apple has many employees, and plenty of resources. Creating a book is literally NOTHING in the grand scheme of their business, and has absolutely no impact on the rest of they business. 

    But exaggeration, distortion, and irrationality is the order of the day for Apple trolls, so...      Lol, really. 



    You won't find a better designed phone, with a better ecosystem on the market. 

    You won't find a better designed laptop, with a better ecosystem, on the market. 

    You won't find anything better designed and better supported from cradle to grave in nearly every area in which Apple competes. 

    The numbers all bear this out. The annual consumer satisfaction metrics bear this out. Apple's sheer brand power and cachet (supported by what stands behind it) bears this out, irrespective of whether some folks happen to personally prefer one iteration of a product over another. 

    Been this way for years and years now. 
    There are a lot of small things that are literally nothing compared to everything else Apple does. For example -- the Mac Pro. 

    So why doesn't Apple just go and do all of those small things? 

    The answer used to be "focus" -- the ability to say "no". 



    Because their market does not consist solely of AppleInsider user "blastdoor."

    It's up to them what they do or don't do. There is no way everyone can be made happy. There is no way everyone's personal needs will be addressed. It often costs way more to target a minority of the market than it does to address a wider audience while still mantaining quality, usability, and cachet.

    You just need think beyond your three feet of personal space.
    So your argument hinges on me being the only member of humanity wanting a new Mac Pro? 

    You've got a little something called: Courage. 
    "Understanding market realities", by any other name.

    Anyone can do it, if they choose to put down the a) trolling, b) fantasy, and c) the idea that they're the only consumer on the planet.
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 57 of 73
    foggyhill said:

    The Mac Pro has been updated as much as can be with current tech, so again major no sequitur whining.


    Taking a tangent here for a moment. Putting a side the issue of how the book does or does not affect Mac development, I'd like to ask you about one of your comments, as quoted above:

    "The Mac Pro has been updated as much as can be with current tech..."

    Has it?

    - Are the CPUs comparable to what Intel is selling today?

    - Are the GPUs comparable to what AMD and Nvidia are selling today?

    - Is the storage technology comparable to what is available today?

    - Are the peripheral interfaces comparable to what is available today?

    Let me ask you this: If you needed a powerhouse workstation today, would YOU buy a Mac Pro in its current configuration happily, or would you wince at paying the same price today as that tech cost three years ago? Be honest.

    Admittedly a couple of the perceived shortcomings were not an issue as recently as a month ago, before the new MacBook Pro was announced, but there were still issues with certain components being dated and thus maybe not great value at their price point.

    With the introduction of the new MacBook Pro we have at least a couple more reasons to wonder what's happening with the Pro:

    - Universal ports supporting faster I/O protocols. The USB-C connector, USB 3.1 Gen 2, and Thunderbolt 3 existed well before the MacBook Pro was released. Could they not have been added to the Pro? Maybe they were deliberately withheld because Apple wanted to introduce them with the laptop, or maybe Intel doesn't yet make Xeon CPUs capable of supporting that interface. I don't know, but if there really is a technical obstacle imposed by Intel, it reinforces my belief that Apple could alleviate a lot of its own perception problems by ditching the universal Cone of Silence and simply communicating that to users.

    - Upgrading the storage in a Mac Pro from the stock 256GB to 1TB costs CAD$600, exactly the same price as the same upgrade to the MacBook Pro. The difference is the storage in the laptop is twice as fast as what you get in the trashcan. That adversely affects the value perception of the latter. Could the Mac Pro not use the same faster storage as the laptop? Maybe not -- maybe there's some technical obstacle I'm not aware of, but as a buyer I'm less inclined to pay full price for something that is now obviously out of date. Maybe I'd decide it's good enough if the price were lower, but I have trouble with paying the same price for half the performance of something else in the same manufacturer's lineup.

    I still use the Mac Pro at work and see no compelling reason to update it based on our present use (audio post) as the age of the machine is not yet imposing any obvious limitations on our work, but if I needed to buy another one today I wouldn't be sure what to do.


    baconstang
  • Reply 58 of 73
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,560member
    I hear it's not upgradeable.
  • Reply 59 of 73
    spheric said:
    I hear it's not upgradeable.
    Oh, well, Apple is doomed™, then. Even Iconic was upgradable; they shipped the upgrade for free, separately!

  • Reply 60 of 73
    dws-2dws-2 Posts: 276member
    I think what upsets people about this book is that it follows a pattern where Apple seems to be making products that only relatively wealthy people will be able to easily afford. I don't doubt the value, but I feel they could have made a very good book for $99 that a lot more people would buy and enjoy. Another example of Apple pushing up the price point is that the new MBP is about $200 more expensive across the board. This contrasts with Apple's previous pattern of introducing new machines at the same price point as last year's machines. I understand that Apple does this to make more money, but this type of thing basically prices some people out of being an Apple fan who could have previously afforded it. I know that Apple has always been premium, but they're moving from premium for the middle class to premium for the few. I think this especially hurts as the middle class in general keeps getting smaller and less affluent.
    dysamoria
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