Apple axes Wi-Fi router division, apparently signaling the end of AirPort

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  • Reply 101 of 226
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    jvmb said:

    red oak said:
    This, if true, is a bad move.  3rd party solutions are (still) a mess.  Their software absolutely sucks.  There is no integration with Apple products.  

    This, plus the decision not to make their own monitors, makes Apple very unreliable has I look at my personal tech roadmap.  I increasingly can't count on them 

    I don't get it as why wouldn't Apple want people to buy this stuff from them. Why cede accessories to other companies? The less of this stuff Apple produces the easier it is for people to leave the Apple ecosystem.
    I don't get it either. I mainly use mac not because of the OS, but because of the ecosystem. That ecosystem used to justify the higher margins. I have read through instructions to set up time machine on a NAS and I rather pay $100 more for a router than having to deal with setting that up and troubleshooting that.

    I think the problem is that the Mac is no longer the center of the ecosystem. The iPhone is now the center and the Mac is an accessory used to sell more iPhones. The routers are not as important as iPhones don't use time machine. Apple prefers that you back up to iCloud.

    Even Microsoft seems to be moving away from the PC OS being their main product. After a failed attempt to move to mobile, they are now focusing their attention on cloud applications and enterprise cloud computing. Ironically, Google is now now getting in the router and PC business.

    The next version of WiFi called 802.11ax is too fast for homes and small businesses.  It is meant for interconnecting big corporations and even cities.
    Apple will live that up to companies like Cisco, HP and Juniper Networks amongst others.
    Apple's routers aren't one trick ponies. What about larger/faster storage and USB ports that could actually keep up with network capabilities we already have. And the Express was never even upgraded to 802.11ac and, I believe, still doesn't have gigabit Ethernet ports. (Gigabit ports didn't matter when it only had one port because you were constrained by wireless speeds, but the Express has a WAN and a LAN port so it can be a bottleneck when passing data across the ports.)
  • Reply 102 of 226
    FatmanFatman Posts: 319member
    Routers won't be missed - other companies refresh theirs every few months with latest tech/antennae/protocols, etc. They are the behind the scenes 'plumbing' that no ones really pays attention to and rarely replace - most customers use what their cable company provides. I must imagine the support alone for these products must be a costly headache.

    However, nixing monitors is a mistake - doesn't Apple want their logo on the product users stare at all day long!? Aesthetically, I want a like-colored Apple monitor next to my iMac or MacBook Pro not a black LG or (gasp) Dell or Samsung branded monitor. This is common sense! Just stick the LG panel in a nice Apple designed bevel, tweak it a bit for better calibration and overcharge us loyal customers - why would they get rid of that?
  • Reply 103 of 226
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,453member
    elijahg said:
    macxpress said:

    jgz1965 said:
    What happened to the Airport products downloading sw updates so that wait times were reduced? In other words Apple can add functionality, like the USB and audio jacks, that makes these products compelling. Seems kind of strange to end these products, displays and (my MASSIVE annoyance) Aperture for no reason. Hey folks, buy are products, oops, nevermind, go bbuy someone else's stuff which we told wasn't any good.
    Apple has other solutions for that such as PowerNap. Just because these are things you want, doesn't mean everyone wants them. They have solutions for audio...called AppleTV. There is already a USB port on it with dual functionality.

    In today's world I wouldn't doubt that other manufacturers can make better 3rd party products than Apple. I'd rather Apple focus on bringing better Apple core products to the market, not some $100 router. 
    An AppleTV for solely audio would be impossible as you're obviously forgetting the ATV4 has no audio out port. USB is diagnostic only. Plus it can't be a wireless router, though that is purely a software restriction. Maybe they're going to turn the ATV into a wifi access point+ATV combo, though I highly doubt it. Much more likely it's just Cook's bean counting isn't adding up to quite the margins he likes on the routers.
    What an uninformed hyperbolic statement. The Apple TV has a universal HDMI output that can be found on any new good audio receiver made in the last few years, for those with older equipment, there's HDMI adapters to anything you may need.
    macxpress
  • Reply 104 of 226
    zabazaba Posts: 226member
    blastdoor said:
    Makes sense -- now that apple is going after the coffetable book market, things like wireless routers and displays need to be axed. 
    Best , made me laugh anyway. Jeez there are some serious arsewipes on here, they must be accountants or something
    blastdoor
  • Reply 105 of 226
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,349member
    slurpy said:
    To me, it's actually exciting that Apple is axing products left and right. It means that they're needing the resources to focus on something that is truly worth killing these products for. Also, goes against the notion that Apple's primary focus is simpy making money, and being money hungry. This is a company that can make an extra few billion by slapping their logo on products like routers and displays, but they chose not to because they don't feel the need to remain in every market if they aren't making a highly differentiated product than everyone else.
    Ha ha, why assume that Apple is axing product lines to focus on other projects? We see what rules the post-Steve Jobs Apple: profit margins and end consumer products (and celebrity designer PR). There's zero evidence to support the notion that the displays and Airports are discontinued to put focus on other products but Apple's last three+ years is evidence that they're doing this to cut spending on product development to increase profits.

    Apple is going to ride their bubble till it bursts and then the executives will float off on golden parachutes, suffering zero consequences for wrecking an historically important part of the computer industry for the stupidity of the Wall Street mindset.
    elijahg
  • Reply 106 of 226
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    logic2.6 said:

    red oak said:
    This, if true, is a bad move.  3rd party solutions are (still) a mess.  Their software absolutely sucks.  There is no integration with Apple products.  

    This, plus the decision not to make their own monitors, makes Apple very unreliable has I look at my personal tech roadmap.  I increasingly can't count on them 

    I don't get it as why wouldn't Apple want people to buy this stuff from them. Why cede accessories to other companies? The less of this stuff Apple produces the easier it is for people to leave the Apple ecosystem.
    I can't believe nobody here figured this out.

    Apple has no business working on the next version of WiFi because at 10 Gb/s,  802.11ax is not needed for homes and small businesses.
    The next version of your cellular network known as 5G will provide Gigabit per second speed which is more than enough for homes and most businesses.
    People may wish to get a wired gigabit connection to their home in case they have dead spots in the house but it is really not needed.

    Remember at&t's Randall Stephenson and Time Warner's Jeffrey Bewkes talking about it at WSJ.D Live?
    Check out time frame 26:30 in the video below.



    1. Apple has no business releasing wifi devices because 802.11ax will be too fast for homes and small businesses? I'm struggling to understand your logic. 

    2. >70% of aggregate internet data demand is video and this %age is projected to grow over time (as 4K/UHD becomes standard). Cellular networks are not designed to move large amounts of video. Even in a US-centric world, data caps and cost will limit the potential of mobile-only internet service. In emerging and developed markets, wifi offloading is going to be critical for internet infrastructure to keep up with demand. 

    But it's good to know you have it all figured out. From watching AT&T & Time Warner folks no less. 
    1.  Jesus dude, nobody in their right mind will run a 10Gb/s network in their house because no home device will support it.  It is too fast.
    The next version of WiFi will be 10Gb/s.  Do you understand?  That kind of speed is meant for interconnecting large businesses and entire cities.

    2.  The next Cellular network known as 5G will be a gigabit network and will be very well suited for video delivery to mobile devices.
    Very few homes today have gigabit connections.  
    So EVERY device in my house will need to have it's own 5G connection? My printers, TiVo, every Mac, my home automation hub, smart thermostat, and security camera? Or will there still be a need to distribute that 5G connection via another method inside of my house?

    You seem to be confusing and ISP with a router. Your cellular 5G may get data to my house, but that's just replacing my Comcast cable modem. It does nothing to get the data to all of those other devices. And Apple's routers are still the best option for accomplishing that.
    dysamoriaelijahgtokyojimuVSzulcargonautHabi_tweet
  • Reply 107 of 226
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,349member

    red oak said:
    This, if true, is a bad move.  3rd party solutions are (still) a mess.  Their software absolutely sucks.  There is no integration with Apple products.  

    This, plus the decision not to make their own monitors, makes Apple very unreliable has I look at my personal tech roadmap.  I increasingly can't count on them 

    I don't get it as why wouldn't Apple want people to buy this stuff from them. Why cede accessories to other companies? The less of this stuff Apple produces the easier it is for people to leave the Apple ecosystem.
    I can't believe nobody here figured this out.

    Apple has no business working on the next version of WiFi because at 10 Gb/s,  802.11ax is not needed for homes and small businesses.
    The next version of your cellular network known as 5G will provide Gigabit per second speed which is more than enough for homes and most businesses.
    People may wish to get a wired gigabit connection to their home in case they have dead spots in the house but it is really not needed.

    Remember at&t's Randall Stephenson and Time Warner's Jeffrey Bewkes talking about it at WSJ.D Live?
    Check out time frame 26:30 in the video below.



    What does cellular have to do with home and small business wifi? Do you not realize that there is a limit to bandwidth and that the cellular companies are already trying to grab reserved bandwidth from the government to keep expanding their subscriber numbers? We can't move everything to cellular. Cellular is a cheapass profit center business fad that has zero long term sustainability as a global data transfer standard. Wireless everything is not the future. It's a component of an effective infrastructure. Treating it like the end all be all is a detour that will end at some point. All the investment taken away from fiber optic land lines has already crippled the USA's Internet infrastructure. It's going to keep getting worse before it gets better.
    tokyojimuargonaut
  • Reply 108 of 226
    That's a shame. I can appreciate that most people end up using the router that comes with their internet modem. But a lot of those are pretty garbage. Apple's routers really worked well with Apple's devices. Also the AirPort Extreme is one of my favourite products.
    elijahgdysamoria
  • Reply 109 of 226
    I am starting to question Apple's Management... Their router has been the best in my opinion with my Apple products. Friends of mine have switched over because of the crappy other routers. MacBook Pros with no USB.. no slots for pics... Now this... and I have been seeing Rumors that Apple might discontinue the MacBook Air... Not the customer friendly company that I have known as an Apple supporter and user for 30 years... Maybe top management changes are needed to right the ship....
    elijahgdysamoria
  • Reply 110 of 226
    hodarhodar Posts: 280member
    This utterly sucks, I have recently been through 5 different routers from other vendors , all of which were complete shit. Two weeks ago I gave the AirPort Extreme a go and all my wifi problems are now fixed. 

    You are absolutely correct.  I have owned NetGear, Linksys, ASUS, EarthLink - you name the brand, and I have owned it.  They all suffered from Router Rot, after about a year of service, they started dropping out.  They would need to be reset, first every few days, then every day, then every few hours.

    A buddy talked me into trying the Apple Airport Extreme when it was time to upgrade to 802.11n; it was a rock.  Set it once, and never touched it again.  When I finally upgraded the network to the 802.11ac, the old router was the easiest thing to add on as an extender.  It asked "Add as an extended Router" and it was just that easy.  Solid performers!!  The 802.11n router is now 7 years old, and the 802.11ac is 2 years old - both are working perfectly.  They don't need to be reset, they "just work".
    dysamoria
  • Reply 111 of 226
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,349member
    sog35 said:
    I hate beating a dead horse but this is just another example of Tim Cook's Apple.

    Total lack of vision.
    Total lack of the importance of ecosystem.
    Total lack of understanding why even low margin products like routers are important.

    Seems like all Cook cares about is margins and pushing his social agenda.

    Products like Routers, monitors, ect may not be very profitable but it strengthens the Apple ecosystem. The stronger the ecosystem the more sticky the brand becomes. It blows my mind that Tim Cook does not understand this basic concept. Either that or he does understand it but does not care.


    If you weren't crusading against Tim Cook's contributions to social justice, I would actually have voted up your post here. It seems, however, that your anti-Cook attitudes are partially built upon bigotry, so no up vote from me.

    At this point, Cook's social justice position, and the fact that he's willing to use a powerful corporation to push this stupid species forward in terms of tolerance, is the only thing I like about him. His leadership of Apple may ultimately kill it, but at least he's contributing to civilization in other ways. Some things matter more than money.
    Rayz2016tokyojimubrucemcargonaut
  • Reply 112 of 226
    sirdir said:
    Well I guess Cook thinks he makes more money with iPhones. But one thing is true: The less products I can get from Apple, the easier it will be to switch altogether. Windows isn't as bad as it used to be, Android isn't as bad as it used to be... And Apple is on a dangerous way. 
    Yeah, I was looking at some Asus motherboards and thinking about a self build with more powerful components than the "current" Mac Pro. I mostly use Adobe CC software so Windows will work fine for that. Maybe I don't need Apple...
    dysamoria
  • Reply 113 of 226
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,824member
    sog35 said:
    blastdoor said:
    Makes sense -- now that apple is going after the coffetable book market, things like wireless routers and displays need to be axed. 
    Its all about margins my friend.

    The router business is a very  low margin business. Selling $300 books, massive margins.

    Plus the book project was necessary to keep Ive. Apple is stuck feeding Ive's massive ego now, allowing him to do some really ridiculous projects because he's so bored. IMO, Ive needs to be replaced with a chief design head that is motivated and hungry. Ive at this point is fat, satisfied, lazy, and content.
    The further and further we get from Jobs the worse and worse the designs get.   Under Jobs design and function was excellent.   Now it like function and UI is way at the back of the bus.   And updates take longer and longer.   What are all those people in the Space ship do?
    dysamoriaelijahg
  • Reply 114 of 226
    So - anyone have any suggestions for reliable alternatives? I've got two Extremes in my house - a 5th-gen as my primary router, and a 2nd-gen used as an extender. They're not the fastest routers, and they lack configuration (I use a VoIP service and the lack of QoS is frustrating).

    That said, these devices have been absolutely rock solid and rarely require a reboot (other than when tweaking their configuration). Prior to my 2nd-gen AE base station, I went through four non-Apple routers (Belkin, Linksys, Airline, and Netgear). Much more powerful devices and far more flexible with their configuration, but completely unreliable devices that lasted about six months before requiring frequent reboots to regain connection.

    I've been looking at upgrading our network, and am wondering what devices to look at now that will last as long as these devices... I don't care if the replacement devices are upwards of $200, as that's what the Airport Extreme runs. It's well worth paying good money for devices that will last!
    edited November 2016 dysamoria
  • Reply 115 of 226
    So - anyone have any suggestions for reliable alternatives? I've got two Extremes in my house - a 5th-gen as my primary router, and a 2nd-gen used as an extender. They're not the fastest routers, and they lack configuration (I use a VoIP service and the lack of QoS is frustrating).

    That said, these devices have been absolutely rock solid and rarely require a reboot (other than when tweaking their configuration). Prior to my 2nd-gen AE base station, I went through four non-Apple routers (Belkin, Linksys, Airline, and Netgear). Much more powerful devices and far more flexible with their configuration, but completely unreliable devices that lasted about six months before requiring frequent reboots to regain connection.

    I've been looking at upgrading our network, and am wondering what devices to look at now that will last as long as these devices...
    I have an asus that has been really good. asus routers include openvpn servers. 
  • Reply 116 of 226
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,349member
    macxpress said:
    blastdoor said:
    This utterly sucks, I have recently been through 5 different routers from other vendors , all of which were complete shit. Two weeks ago I gave the AirPort Extreme a go and all my wifi problems are now fixed. 
    Agreed. 

    Perhaps their logic here is that most people use the wireless router that comes from their ISP. That's probably true. 

    However, for anyone who wants to do anything else AND is in the Apple ecosystem, Apple's routers are awesome. They're an important part of the ecosystem. 

    If Apple starts taking the axe to individual trees without regard for the forest, they're going to undermine their ecosystem. It's the ecosystem that allows them to hold on to customers. 

    Displays -- chop, chop.
    Routers -- chop, chop. 
    What's next? 
    Explain to me how they're important? What do they do that other ones can't do? I don't get this an AirPort is part of their ecosystem logic. I use a Linksys WRT AC1200 and Apple's ecosystem works perfectly fine. What am I missing? Are you concerned about Time Machine backups? Is that it? 
    Ease of use. All of my Verizon DSL modem-routers have been total POS. My AirPort Extreme is stable, simple to use and configure, and almost never requires restarting. If Apple has some plan to make wireless routers unnecessary, then so be it, but these were the best thing for people who are sick of babysitting the PC industry's trashy, low engineering, geek-driven gadgets.
    elijahg
  • Reply 117 of 226
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,824member
    cr8tiv1 said:
    For the past year I've hesitate from upgrading my 5th Generation AE in hope of a refresh....That dream is now crushed. But the more I think about it, maybe the joined forces of Apple TV + AE teams might be a good thing? Maybe the Apple TV will eventually be the HUB that has been rumored before - including wifi?

    Don't hold your Breath waiting for a Apple Hub.   I don't think it will happen because I don't think it is a product Jony Ive would care about.   Let's face it an apple Hub would be a competitor to The echo with Alexa which has been on the market for two years and Google home with the Google Assistant.   Any hub from Apple would have to be based on Siri which sucks .  It would be two embarrassing to get to release a product based on the POS Siri.

    I'm enjoying my Echo and will get Google Home to try that because as much as I have  loved my Apple products they have let Siri and other products essential to the future whither on the vine.
    elijahg
  • Reply 118 of 226
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,349member
    misa said:
    sog35 said:
    This is too bad.

    I like these products. 
    The Airport devices last longer than the junk put out by the likes of d-link. That said, real NAS devices are superior to Apple's solution (for Time Capsule) while pretty much every ISP releases their own router, which makes having a second router something of a technical support issue (double-NAT tends to break lots of things.)  WiFi has matured to a point where there's not much else you're going to get out of having an Apple router. 

    The other thing to consider is that many people have moved from mechanical drives to SSD's, and Apple is trying to sell it's iCloud services for $26/mo for 2TB. So the Time Capsule actually conflicts with this. 

    Ultimately, there is no reason for people to replace Time Capsule/AirPort devices. So once bought, there's a declining number of customers that will buy a new one. That said, I wonder what exactly Apple is using for their iCloud storage.






    This is all correct except for the presumption that iCloud is relevant to all users. Far from it. There's no way I'm using iCloud (and the USA's shitty Internet infrastructure) to backup my hundreds of gigabytes of data. Not only is it not a backup location I control, the data transfer speed is pathetic and I'm not paying someone else to do what I can do more secure and faster locally. Once again, Apple ignores the use case of content creators. 

    Even if the backup was secure and protected by a warranty (ha ha ha ha ha), the infrastructure isn't there to transfer the data back and forth, unless you're living in a few select locations in the USA. Outside the USA, some countries have much better internet infrastructure, but the USA's sucks ass. Are Apple going to invest in fiber optic land lines for places that are still under Verizon's thumb of shitty DSL (or their divested DSL networks)?
  • Reply 119 of 226
    This utterly sucks, I have recently been through 5 different routers from other vendors , all of which were complete shit. Two weeks ago I gave the AirPort Extreme a go and all my wifi problems are now fixed. 
    Did you try Synology's router?
    Was considering either Synology or Airport for my next router.. one of them is of the table now..
  • Reply 120 of 226
    sog35 said:
    wdowell said:
    Apple cares too much about margins now. They sacrifice the smaller things that were actaully good at making better user experiences for the Apple customer.
    Agree 100%

    This is what I was saying for weeks about Tim Cook's Apple.

    So pathetic that we are at a point where he's willing to sacrifice user experience for margins. Apple customers are willing to pay a premium for the best. Now Tim Cook is not even giving us an opportunity to buy the best.
    Wasn't the book project started 8 years ago? If so, that means it started when SJ was alive so I highly doubt it was green-lit to keep Ive around. Besides, Ive is Chief Design Officer,  meaning he's involved with higher level stuff: Apple Campus, Retail Design, Project Titan, & probably iPhone 8 (aka 10th Anniversary iPhone)
    williamlondon
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