Good Lord. What engineer signed off on these things to be shown to the world before this MAJOR failure point was discovered? This is incredibly disappointing.
If even one person reported a problem, they would want to address is before releasing it to the world. It's a lot better move than struggling with PR especially when there's a new product category at stake and it's what they are pinning the future of audio on.
Having dealt with wireless integration, I can tell you there are exponentially more variables. The devices probably work in normal conditions or controlled environments. But in a rare case, and the stereo gets fudged up... that's something they want to iron out. Apple doesn't release beta products (or they try really hard not to).
I thought it was strange they hadn't worked out a way to find missing pods. It sounds like they are trying to refine the software to help with that using Bluetooth ranging (iBeacon) and maintaining stereo link.
Good Lord. What engineer signed off on these things to be shown to the world before this MAJOR failure point was discovered? This is incredibly disappointing.
Are you assuming that an engineer signed off for that to be done or do you have evidence?
Linkman: do you think companies usually announce a ship date for hardware before the development is done?
Leave it to you bozos to always find something to gripe about.
I don't know that I'd call this "griping" but in any case, what's wrong with pointing out the blatantly obvious: that this isn't good news.
If your sitting in a theater waiting for a show to start and they come out and announce that the delay is caused by technical difficulties, I doubt too many people are going to say "thank god they didn't start the show with bad audio; I'm just glad they are taking the time to get it right." A more natural reaction is "that sucks, I wanted the show to start on time; I hope it doesn't take too long to fix."
Yeah, yeah, it's not a perfect metaphor because we haven't bought tickets to anything, but still it's perfectly reasonable to "gripe" when something you're looking forward to isn't delivered when you were told and the latest rumor is "they're still working out the kinks."
I suspect they demo'd it to the world knowing the issues with a projected time from to resolve them. But finding the answer is taking longer than they projected. Or this problem arose when they let them out in the wild. Either way, I don't buy it that a major problem like this wouldn't have been caught before they demo'd it, but I do believe that finding a solution could have been more elusive that they originally anticipated. With regards to losing an earbud. It's the same thing as other wireless Bluetooth headphones. The earbud or buds turn off or or provide some sort of alert when an earpiece is has fallen out. There's probably some other factor Buried in this smoke screen that we arnt seeing or hearing. If I had to guess it could be any of the following like the wireless charging case charging the earphones. Or it could be Siri connectivity and response. And how these things affect the battery. Or just last minute things that crop up before launching a product. I'm sure what ever the problem. Someone most likely knew it was there before sepetember. They just didn't think it was as big a problem as it probably turned out to be
They had better fix these and make them 100% perfect.
My ears are pretty good, far above average, and I can hear the slightest delays, down to the millisecond. That is one reason that I have long been skeptical towards wireless sound.
Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be if the L and R are not perfect in sync? There would be all sorts of phasing issues and sound would not be reproduced accurately anymore.
I only use 1 ear at a time. Mostly listen to podcasts.
market of one.
I agree with apple][ , the L/R sync integrity has to be 'insanely great' just to be on a par with wired (between speakers) headsets. Bluetooth to video synchronization was a similar problem (nothing like having lips move and then .2 seconds later you hear the voice).
but phasing issues, that would just suck. Worst case, such phasing would make something that should be right in front of you (center speaker), 'sound like' its 100 yards to the left or right depending the leading speaker. Curious if it would impact equilibrium?
Dang sensitive hearing causes trouble again! Humans can hear (safely) over a range of 9 magnitudes of pressure levels, 4 magnitudes in frequency, can detect binaural beats up to 50 per second, and can easily determine direction based on a lot of cues -- in large part of the ability to detect the time difference of sound arrival between the ears which can be a maximum of about 660 microseconds.
The main science explaining the time difference perception here is called the precedence effect. To be perceived nearly always as a "normal" sound with no delay that time interval needs to be less than 2 milliseconds. That doesn't give much latitude for problems that we often encounter with wireless devices.
Good Lord. What engineer signed off on these things to be shown to the world before this MAJOR failure point was discovered? This is incredibly disappointing.
Are you assuming that an engineer signed off for that to be done or do you have evidence?
Linkman: do you think companies usually announce a ship date for hardware before the development is done?
Many ship dates are announced before the product is 100% ready. We certainly have a case for that here. My take on it is that much like randominternetperson's post, it's probably not an engineer making that decision. Some manager made the call.
Good Lord. What engineer signed off on these things to be shown to the world before this MAJOR failure point was discovered? This is incredibly disappointing.
Are you assuming that an engineer signed off for that to be done or do you have evidence?
Linkman: do you think companies usually announce a ship date for hardware before the development is done?
Many ship dates are announced before the product is 100% ready. We certainly have a case for that here. My take on it is that much like randominternetperson's post, it's probably not an engineer making that decision. Some manager made the call.
And this all throughout Apple's history so no one should be surprised when this happens.
I don't want to veer off topic. but to those that have mentioned hearing aids; I'm exploring various MFI hearing aids for my father. Any recommendations? I'm particularly concerned about battery life.
I have no specific experience with hearing aids, but I tend to find Wirecutter to be the best at rooting out the best products.
Leave it to you bozos to always find something to gripe about.
I don't know that I'd call this "griping" but in any case, what's wrong with pointing out the blatantly obvious: that this isn't good news.
If your sitting in a theater waiting for a show to start and they come out and announce that the delay is caused by technical difficulties, I doubt too many people are going to say "thank god they didn't start the show with bad audio; I'm just glad they are taking the time to get it right." A more natural reaction is "that sucks, I wanted the show to start on time; I hope it doesn't take too long to fix."
Yeah, yeah, it's not a perfect metaphor because we haven't bought tickets to anything, but still it's perfectly reasonable to "gripe" when something you're looking forward to isn't delivered when you were told and the latest rumor is "they're still working out the kinks."
This is good news.
This is just shows that Apple cares about quality.
Comparing a mundane act of showing a movie compared to release a brand new technology is ridiculous.
A better comparison is a stuntman who is attempting to jump over a bridge. But at the last moment they realize the motorcycle engine is not running just right. Do you want him to try it anyway? Would you be bitter disappointed?
Hmmm.... SOMEONE here about a week or so ago wanted Cook fired for not having them ready for Holiday buying. Surely that wasn't you.
Apple should just put these aside, while the technology behind it was some what impressive these pods will be a dud. They are too expensive, even when they release it the technology will still lag, and the last thing they need/want is a PR nightmare recalling these Airpods.
Good Lord. What engineer signed off on these things to be shown to the world before this MAJOR failure point was discovered? This is incredibly disappointing.
Many bloggers received pre-release models back in October, and not a single one reported any issues like this.
Apple is going the extra mile to cover edge cases and avoid bad press. It's exactly the sort of thing people carry on about when non-issues like antennagate and bendgate crop up. You should be glad.
The bad press is already here. This article (plus others picking up on it) and the comments to come. If they don't resolve these issues (whatever they really are) before Christmas, it will turn to negative press. If they ship with known issues (such as the one rumored in this piece) and promise a fix by firmware update at a later date, they will get slaughtered.
I agree with the comments that say if they had known, showstopping issues, they shouldn't have been announced, iPhone 7 or not.
Leave it to you bozos to always find something to gripe about.
On the positive side, it's far better for Apple to work out this chink BEFORE the Air Pods are released, both to quell potential customer complaints/class action suits, and to perfect the technology in order to solidify any new patents involved, thereby distancing and proofing themselves further from the inevitable copy cats.
On another positive side, while I'm waiting, myself, for the Air Pods, I bought a pair of PowerBeats3 Wireless which I really like. They're noticeably better than PowerBeats2 which I had used for years. There's no fragile little flap over the charging port, the signal doesn't cut out when I turn my head (with my iPhone in my front pants pocket on the opposite side from the PowerBeats antenna), the charge lasts longer, and Bluetooth switching between devices (iPhone, iMac, AppleTV, Apple Watch) is a snap! You don't have to disconnect one device before connecting the new one.
I also solved the problem of the wire always binding up around my neck and collar: I run it in FRONT of my neck and between the top two buttons of my shirt. There's plenty of slack that way so as not to restrict my head movements, and I can simply take them out when I want to and let them dangle on my chest.
The Air Pods are still intriguing to me, assuming that they'll stay in my ears securely. I like the idea of being able to use just one at times.
The ability to sync audio between the buds is fundamental technology to the product. These things should have done that long BEFORE they did anything else. It's unthinkable that the essential functionality of the product doesn't work even as they are announced to the public as the ameliorating factor in removing the headphone jack. What good is easy pairing, pause when removed, gyroscopic controls, etc. when the most basic function fails?
There is absolutely no justification for giving Apple a pass on this debacle.
Leave it to you bozos to always find something to gripe about.
I don't know that I'd call this "griping" but in any case, what's wrong with pointing out the blatantly obvious: that this isn't good news.
If your sitting in a theater waiting for a show to start and they come out and announce that the delay is caused by technical difficulties, I doubt too many people are going to say "thank god they didn't start the show with bad audio; I'm just glad they are taking the time to get it right." A more natural reaction is "that sucks, I wanted the show to start on time; I hope it doesn't take too long to fix."
Yeah, yeah, it's not a perfect metaphor because we haven't bought tickets to anything, but still it's perfectly reasonable to "gripe" when something you're looking forward to isn't delivered when you were told and the latest rumor is "they're still working out the kinks."
This is good news.
This is just shows that Apple cares about quality.
Comparing a mundane act of showing a movie compared to release a brand new technology is ridiculous.
A better comparison is a stuntman who is attempting to jump over a bridge. But at the last moment they realize the motorcycle engine is not running just right. Do you want him to try it anyway? Would you be bitter disappointed?
Good Lord. What engineer signed off on these things to be shown to the world before this MAJOR failure point was discovered? This is incredibly disappointing.
Are you assuming that an engineer signed off for that to be done or do you have evidence?
I think the point is that this product was clearly given the green light by someone and this kind of issue (if true) is impossible to discover after announcing the product. It is the kind is issue that gets resolved/detected at the start because it is a product requirement or if it isn't resolved, the fix is straightforward.
Perhaps a fix is almost here or perhaps not. Apple took a risk in announcing this product before ironing out the issues (minor or major) and when you take risks, you understand the consequences.
This whole Airpod business looks to me like a solution searching for a problem.
When getting Airpods I am losing the cable but in exchange I have to (a) make sure I don't lose these pods, (b) deal with recharging them after 5 hours of usage (which isn't very much), (c) deal with potentially unequal discharge rates on both pods.
On top of this, enormous engineering resources have to be wasted on making them work well.
I am predicting an initial rush to buy these pods from enthusiasts, then lots of anguished reports of people losing them while jogging etc., followed by more reports that people take along wired headphones as "backups" to deal with loss and empty batteries.
The closest analogue to this in my mind are the Falcon doors on the Tesla Model X (which not even Tesla will imitate in future models).
I never ever thought this product was going to be without problems that we would never tolerate on wired headphones. They immediately looked like a bad idea, a solution seeking a problem, and a general overreach with technology (fated to under-deliver).
The question is whether the people buying these things will tolerate them, excusing their defects as technical limitations and starry-eyed excuses like "look at how incredible they are for what they CAN do"... like tech geeks tend to do for most tech gadgets.
The normalization of "bugs" and poor performance and behavior is the SOP in the tech world.
They had better fix these and make them 100% perfect.
My ears are pretty good, far above average, and I can hear the slightest delays, down to the millisecond. That is one reason that I have long been skeptical towards wireless sound.
Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be if the L and R are not perfect in sync? There would be all sorts of phasing issues and sound would not be reproduced accurately anymore.
I only use 1 ear at a time. Mostly listen to podcasts.
same here. unless there are hardware issues, just release the AirPods as a beta product already. I really want to use it to listen to podcasts. Apple, you hear? Just take my money and sell me the AirPods already. I will sign an agreement to waive all my legal rights regarding the AirPods.
Comments
Having dealt with wireless integration, I can tell you there are exponentially more variables. The devices probably work in normal conditions or controlled environments. But in a rare case, and the stereo gets fudged up... that's something they want to iron out. Apple doesn't release beta products (or they try really hard not to).
I thought it was strange they hadn't worked out a way to find missing pods. It sounds like they are trying to refine the software to help with that using Bluetooth ranging (iBeacon) and maintaining stereo link.
Funny. Back to back postings here:
stulkey: "Welcome to Apple's version of beta-everything,..."
jkichline: "Apple doesn't release beta products (or they try really hard not to)."
I'm with jk on this one.
I don't know that I'd call this "griping" but in any case, what's wrong with pointing out the blatantly obvious: that this isn't good news.
If your sitting in a theater waiting for a show to start and they come out and announce that the delay is caused by technical difficulties, I doubt too many people are going to say "thank god they didn't start the show with bad audio; I'm just glad they are taking the time to get it right." A more natural reaction is "that sucks, I wanted the show to start on time; I hope it doesn't take too long to fix."
Yeah, yeah, it's not a perfect metaphor because we haven't bought tickets to anything, but still it's perfectly reasonable to "gripe" when something you're looking forward to isn't delivered when you were told and the latest rumor is "they're still working out the kinks."
With regards to losing an earbud. It's the same thing as other wireless Bluetooth headphones. The earbud or buds turn off or or provide some sort of alert when an earpiece is has fallen out. There's probably some other factor Buried in this smoke screen that we arnt seeing or hearing. If I had to guess it could be any of the following like the wireless charging case charging the earphones. Or it could be Siri connectivity and response. And how these things affect the battery. Or just last minute things that crop up before launching a product. I'm sure what ever the problem. Someone most likely knew it was there before sepetember. They just didn't think it was as big a problem as it probably turned out to be
I agree with apple][ , the L/R sync integrity has to be 'insanely great' just to be on a par with wired (between speakers) headsets. Bluetooth to video synchronization was a similar problem (nothing like having lips move and then .2 seconds later you hear the voice).
but phasing issues, that would just suck. Worst case, such phasing would make something that should be right in front of you (center speaker), 'sound like' its 100 yards to the left or right depending the leading speaker. Curious if it would impact equilibrium?
The main science explaining the time difference perception here is called the precedence effect. To be perceived nearly always as a "normal" sound with no delay that time interval needs to be less than 2 milliseconds. That doesn't give much latitude for problems that we often encounter with wireless devices.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect
I agree with the comments that say if they had known, showstopping issues, they shouldn't have been announced, iPhone 7 or not.
There is absolutely no justification for giving Apple a pass on this debacle.
Perhaps a fix is almost here or perhaps not. Apple took a risk in announcing this product before ironing out the issues (minor or major) and when you take risks, you understand the consequences.
When getting Airpods I am losing the cable but in exchange I have to (a) make sure I don't lose these pods, (b) deal with recharging them after 5 hours of usage (which isn't very much), (c) deal with potentially unequal discharge rates on both pods.
On top of this, enormous engineering resources have to be wasted on making them work well.
I am predicting an initial rush to buy these pods from enthusiasts, then lots of anguished reports of people losing them while jogging etc., followed by more reports that people take along wired headphones as "backups" to deal with loss and empty batteries.
The closest analogue to this in my mind are the Falcon doors on the Tesla Model X (which not even Tesla will imitate in future models).
The question is whether the people buying these things will tolerate them, excusing their defects as technical limitations and starry-eyed excuses like "look at how incredible they are for what they CAN do"... like tech geeks tend to do for most tech gadgets.
The normalization of "bugs" and poor performance and behavior is the SOP in the tech world.