Mac losing focus of Jony Ive, others in Apple management - report

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  • Reply 81 of 104
    oldenboomoldenboom Posts: 30unconfirmed, member
    Reading news like this strengthens my believe Apple appears to be falling for the temptations to go for fashion instead for delivering really professional products. Apple appears to forget many professionals are using Apple products as merely tools, professional tools. I like to see updates for my professional tools so I can decide to replace my current tool when it speeds-up my professional work process, makes it easier or more reliable. To me the touchbar in the new MBP is just a gimmick. It doesn't improve my professional work - worse, the noisy keyboard makes the laptop less usable in environments with many people, the omission of the magsafe adapter makes it more prone to accidents, the need to carry a lot of converter cables is just cumbersome and I didn't even mention the removal of the physical Esc key. Several co-workers had to replace their MBP over the last week - without exception they bought a 2015 MBP. As a professional I don't care about the thickness of my MBP. I do care about interfaces, about a very good keyboard and about a good screen. And I care about a reliable discrete GPU which won't stop working after five years. The new MBP is just a fashion product, not a professional product. It should have been called MacBook. I'm still waiting for the real Pro update of the 2015 MBP.

    In short, will Apple keep in mind all those professionals using their products, having built a lot of loyalty with them. Or will Apple go the IMHO rather volatile fashion way? I'm afraid the marketeers have taken over Apple. Again. Apple urgently needs the arrogance and stubborness Steve Jobs had. Cook and Ive don't show this, unfortunately.
    netmage
  • Reply 82 of 104
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    oldenboom said:
    Reading news like this strengthens my believe Apple appears to be falling for the temptations to go for fashion instead for delivering really professional products. Apple appears to forget many professionals are using Apple products as merely tools, professional tools. I like to see updates for my professional tools so I can decide to replace my current tool when it speeds-up my professional work process, makes it easier or more reliable. To me the touchbar in the new MBP is just a gimmick. It doesn't improve my professional work - worse, the noisy keyboard makes the laptop less usable in environments with many people, the omission of the magsafe adapter makes it more prone to accidents, the need to carry a lot of converter cables is just cumbersome and I didn't even mention the removal of the physical Esc key. Several co-workers had to replace their MBP over the last week - without exception they bought a 2015 MBP. As a professional I don't care about the thickness of my MBP. I do care about interfaces, about a very good keyboard and about a good screen. And I care about a reliable discrete GPU which won't stop working after five years. The new MBP is just a fashion product, not a professional product. It should have been called MacBook. I'm still waiting for the real Pro update of the 2015 MBP.

    In short, will Apple keep in mind all those professionals using their products, having built a lot of loyalty with them. Or will Apple go the IMHO rather volatile fashion way? I'm afraid the marketeers have taken over Apple. Again. Apple urgently needs the arrogance and stubborness Steve Jobs had. Cook and Ive don't show this, unfortunately.
    This is the same nonsense we written since the demise of the last affordable Mac tower (probably the MDD powermac) in favor of the iMac and very expensive G5 cheese grater powermac.

    This professional, after lugging two laptops through airport security, sure as hell welcomes a thinner and lighter MBP.  I should have shipped the damn things but sometimes when you have to have something at the other end you hand carry them.

    And as a pro I don't care if the GPU dies in 5 years.  We replace all our computers every 3 years.
    edited December 2016 netmage
  • Reply 83 of 104
    technotechno Posts: 737member
    Ouch.
    I personally don't understand how Apple as the largest company in the world with no concerns about cash flow can't have multiple successful product teams going.
    How hard is it for them to put out a decent looking updated monitor for example?
    The culture there sounds brutal too...?

    I often wonder the exact same thing. They have the financial resources and the cult like customer base, yet they always seem like a company that is rushing one team around to all of the different projects and nothing is ever truly followed up on. They are great at introducing stuff but then they never continue to develop them, unless it is a phone.
    • iTunes is a half ass bag of mess that confuses and frustrates everyone. 
    • Photos app is even more confusing and weak. The interface is so poorly thought out and confusing for most.
    • It appears the Time Capsules/base stations/expresses are on the way out. 
    • They pretty much said FU to the pro video editors with the stripping down of FCP. 
    • Mail, calendar and notes apps seem to be forgotten.
    • They are letting a great opportunity to steal MS Office customers slip from their grasp by not developing Pages, Numbers and Keynote. I can't tell you how many clients are continually frustrated with Office's memory leaks and constant crashes. Yet, most users have no clue that Pages, for example can open and save as Word documents.
    • Then there is the lack of allowed customization of your computer and it's Operating System. People miss the ability to add RAM, a video card or a hard drive. And my god give us back color icons in the sidebar.
    I am sorry for the rant. I am not a nay sayer. I love Apple and I am not one of those "If Jobs was still here..." kind of guy. I just think they need to stand back and rethink their direction.
    netmage
  • Reply 84 of 104
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    techno said:
    Ouch.
    I personally don't understand how Apple as the largest company in the world with no concerns about cash flow can't have multiple successful product teams going.
    How hard is it for them to put out a decent looking updated monitor for example?
    The culture there sounds brutal too...?

    I often wonder the exact same thing. They have the financial resources and the cult like customer base, yet they always seem like a company that is rushing one team around to all of the different projects and nothing is ever truly followed up on. They are great at introducing stuff but then they never continue to develop them, unless it is a phone.
    • iTunes is a half ass bag of mess that confuses and frustrates everyone. 
    • Photos app is even more confusing and weak. The interface is so poorly thought out and confusing for most.
    • It appears the Time Capsules/base stations/expresses are on the way out. 
    • They pretty much said FU to the pro video editors with the stripping down of FCP. 
    • Mail, calendar and notes apps seem to be forgotten.
    • They are letting a great opportunity to steal MS Office customers slip from their grasp by not developing Pages, Numbers and Keynote. I can't tell you how many clients are continually frustrated with Office's memory leaks and constant crashes. Yet, most users have no clue that Pages, for example can open and save as Word documents.
    • Then there is the lack of allowed customization of your computer and it's Operating System. People miss the ability to add RAM, a video card or a hard drive. And my god give us back color icons in the sidebar.
    I am sorry for the rant. I am not a nay sayer. I love Apple and I am not one of those "If Jobs was still here..." kind of guy. I just think they need to stand back and rethink their direction.
    The pool of great engineers that want to work at any of the tech giants is limited.  You can hire just to hire or you can keep your standards high and your engineering teams smaller.

    As far as Photos go it's just okay at the moment. It's not an aperture replacement but a reasonable iPhoto replacement. 

    Apple never intended to take on MS Office even in the beginning. You could tell when there wasn't even a Keynote player for Windows.  iWork was just an insurance policy that is no longer really needed.

    Whether people really miss adding RAM, etc is debatable.  There is data that suggests few ever do and being locked down has been a Mac trait FROM DAY ONE.  Nobody can bitch because they didn't know or that Apple has changed.  DAY ONE people.  Apple has always favored All-In-Ones under Steve and Tim.

    Somewhere I still have my torx screwdriver from 1984.
    netmagemacplusplus
  • Reply 85 of 104
    dk49dk49 Posts: 267member
    I believed things like these will happen after Steve' death. Without a central guy/central decision maker who ties up everything, people, and ultimately the products will start falling apart. Jony Ive was supposed to be that central guy, although I believe that he cannot tightly control things like services (headed by Eddy Cue) and maybe software also, but still it will make a big impact if he was vetoing everything in Apple. That's the responsibility of the CEO, but Tim Cook is sadly not a product guy. He is only maco-managing, and not micro-managing things like Steve did, relying on people like Craig Federighi, Eddy Cue, Philip Schiller, etc. No matter how good these guys are, someone needs to make product/services level decisions above them for Apple to retain its magic.
  • Reply 86 of 104
    oldenboom said:

    Reading news like this strengthens my believe Apple appears to be falling for the temptations to go for fashion instead for delivering really professional products.

    While my experience with the new MacBook Pro hasn't been the thrill I'd hoped for, I don't share your entirely pessimistic view of it. Specifically:


    oldenboom said:

    To me the touchbar in the new MBP is just a gimmick. It doesn't improve my professional work

    I haven't found much advantage to it over existing methods of doing things either, but I view it as a positive step. It's a mixed bag -- having controllers that can dynamically change functions contextually allows for more controls in a given space, but sacrifices the benefits of muscle memory always knowing where a particular key will be. Maybe that improves with time. Ultimately I think it will develop into a useful interface, even if I don't seem to get much out of it now.


    oldenboom said:

    worse, the noisy keyboard makes the laptop less usable in environments with many people

    I don't care for the new keyboard either. When I tried it out in the store I thought I would, but after using it for a while I'm liking it less. I seem to make a LOT more mistakes than I did on my old Unibody (I'm not sure why, but I am), and find myself pressing harder on modifier keys because I can't tell if they're actually down or not.

    I think the increased noise may be related to providing positive tactile feedback. If reducing noise makes the keys less "clicks" or more "mushy" I'd rather have the noise.


    oldenboom said:

    the omission of the magsafe adapter makes it more prone to accidents

    You know, it turns out that I haven't missed MagSafe at all. I thought I would, given that I used to unintentionally pop it quite often. The one time I've snagged the cord hard enough to pull the computer off the table, the USB connector popped out. Other times the computer just rotated as few degrees with no negative effects.

    MagSafe is a great idea, but I actually prefer the advantages of having an extra port if/when I need it, being able to plug in power on whichever side is most convenient, and eventually having a broader choice of powering options.


    oldenboom said:

    the need to carry a lot of converter cables is just cumbersome

    I carry exactly ONE more adapter than I used to: A USB-C male to USB-A female for the times I have to plug in someone else's thumb drive. Within the time I own this computer the need for even that one will disappear.

    My peripherals all had their own cables anyway, so I just replaced the ones they had with ones that have a USB-C connector on the computer end. Net difference: a $39 payment to Monoprice and another forty bucks or so to Apple. Chump change in the context of the price of a MacBook Pro.

    In exchange for that petty "sacrifice" I get all universal ports that, with the correct cable, can connect to ANYTHING. EVERY port can be whatever I want! I don't have to give up a USB port to make room for an HDMI port I'll never use. You don't have to give up an HDMI port to get a Firewire port you'll never use. Plus you get more port power for running power-hungry peripherals without wall warts.

    I welcome and relish this change more than any other on this new machine.


    oldenboom said:

    I do care about [...] a good screen.

    Then the new MacBook Pro should be at the top of your list, as it has the best screen you can get in a laptop!


    oldenboom said:

    The new MBP is just a fashion product, not a professional product.

    It would be foolish to dispute Apple's tendency towards willingness to compromise some utility for a more luxurious overall experience, but I don't necessarily agree that it automatically means the tools are not "professional."

    For example, I'm surprised that people are not more excited about the storage. This machine has the fastest storage in the world! Twice as fast as even the PCIe connected flash in the Mac Pro! Plus you can get up to 2TB of it ON-BOARD! Where else can you get that?

    If I were designing a machine just for me I might add a little thickness and/or weight (then again I may not, depending on the payoffs), but I don't consider this machine in any way "not professional."
    ibillmacpluspluswatto_cobra
  • Reply 87 of 104
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    wizard69 said:
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Report by some bullshit artist.

    Time to send a couple security 'professionals' to visit these clowns.
    Look, as a long time Apple fanboy, former employee, and 72 year old skeptic, even I can't deny the obvious. I have no insider information, but no one can deny that the refresh and update cycle of Mac products have substantially slowed over time while those of others have been rapid and sustained. Yes, there are perfectly good reasons for this, but the fact remains. Those of us who still want exciting desktops are frustrated. If it walks like a duck . . .
    the refresh has been slow because there is nothing to refresh. No new chips from intel and no new technology to push.


    Exactly.    What is worst is that the new chips Intel does have dont do a lot for performance.    Some of the new MBP threads highlight thisas in some case people are seeing zero improvement in application performance.   Much of Intels so called new hardware sucks pretty bad.  
    Someone has to move the PC to ARM, then maybe Apple will follow.
  • Reply 88 of 104
    How I miss Steve!!
  • Reply 89 of 104
    oldenboom said:

    The new MBP is just a fashion product, not a professional product.

    It would be foolish to dispute Apple's tendency towards willingness to compromise some utility for a more luxurious overall experience, but I don't necessarily agree that it automatically means the tools are not "professional."

    Apple has never had such a tendancy. No one can argue that the horrible plastic bands of the 6 series or the brick like thickness of the Watch bring "more luxurious overall appearance". These are examples of "utility over appearance". 
    edited December 2016
  • Reply 90 of 104
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,075member
    oldenboom said:
    Reading news like this strengthens my believe Apple appears to be falling for the temptations to go for fashion instead for delivering really professional products. Apple appears to forget many professionals are using Apple products as merely tools, professional tools. I like to see updates for my professional tools so I can decide to replace my current tool when it speeds-up my professional work process, makes it easier or more reliable. To me the touchbar in the new MBP is just a gimmick. It doesn't improve my professional work - worse, the noisy keyboard makes the laptop less usable in environments with many people, the omission of the magsafe adapter makes it more prone to accidents, the need to carry a lot of converter cables is just cumbersome and I didn't even mention the removal of the physical Esc key. Several co-workers had to replace their MBP over the last week - without exception they bought a 2015 MBP. As a professional I don't care about the thickness of my MBP. I do care about interfaces, about a very good keyboard and about a good screen. And I care about a reliable discrete GPU which won't stop working after five years. The new MBP is just a fashion product, not a professional product. It should have been called MacBook. I'm still waiting for the real Pro update of the 2015 MBP.

    In short, will Apple keep in mind all those professionals using their products, having built a lot of loyalty with them. Or will Apple go the IMHO rather volatile fashion way? I'm afraid the marketeers have taken over Apple. Again. Apple urgently needs the arrogance and stubborness Steve Jobs had. Cook and Ive don't show this, unfortunately.
    The Mac was a passion for Steve.  It was one of his children.   For Cook it is a SKU.
  • Reply 91 of 104
    dk49 said:
    I believed things like these will happen after Steve' death. Without a central guy/central decision maker who ties up everything, people, and ultimately the products will start falling apart. Jony Ive was supposed to be that central guy, although I believe that he cannot tightly control things like services (headed by Eddy Cue) and maybe software also, but still it will make a big impact if he was vetoing everything in Apple. That's the responsibility of the CEO, but Tim Cook is sadly not a product guy. He is only maco-managing, and not micro-managing things like Steve did, relying on people like Craig Federighi, Eddy Cue, Philip Schiller, etc. No matter how good these guys are, someone needs to make product/services level decisions above them for Apple to retain its magic.
    It is true that technology development does not tolerate "democratic decision-making" A technology company may adhere to democratic, civilian, open society values in its relations with the society and the state, but does not have to behave in one-to-one projective way in technology development. Those are totally different realms. I believe we cannot judge Apple's internal workings based on the executives' political or social stances or press releases. I believe that team have already digested that tradition during many years of working together. They are not tech world's "socialites", although the "newcomers" in the competition may be. Those are serious committed guys who have managed to tolerate Steve Jobs' fury since the beginning. The landscape you describe may arise after the retirement of that team but for now we can be sure that even Steve Jobs was present, things would not be substantially different from what we see now.
    edited December 2016
  • Reply 92 of 104
    oldenboom said:

    The new MBP is just a fashion product, not a professional product.

    It would be foolish to dispute Apple's tendency towards willingness to compromise some utility for a more luxurious overall experience, but I don't necessarily agree that it automatically means the tools are not "professional."

    Apple has never had such a tendancy. No one can argue that the horrible plastic bands of the 6 series or the brick like thickness of the Watch bring "more luxurious overall appearance". These are examples of "utility over appearance". 
    You are welcome to disagree, but please quote me accurately. I referred to a luxurious *experience*, not "appearance."
  • Reply 93 of 104
    oldenboom said:

    The new MBP is just a fashion product, not a professional product.

    It would be foolish to dispute Apple's tendency towards willingness to compromise some utility for a more luxurious overall experience, but I don't necessarily agree that it automatically means the tools are not "professional."

    Apple has never had such a tendancy. No one can argue that the horrible plastic bands of the 6 series or the brick like thickness of the Watch bring "more luxurious overall appearance". These are examples of "utility over appearance". 
    You are welcome to disagree, but please quote me accurately. I referred to a luxurious *experience*, not "appearance."
    Sorry my mistake. "Luxurious experience" still doesn't fit, however. My understanding of "luxurious experience" are all of those toaster-fringe things, swiveling tablet-displays, foldable desktop size drawing surfaces and alike. 
  • Reply 94 of 104
    dk49dk49 Posts: 267member
    dk49 said:
    I believed things like these will happen after Steve' death. Without a central guy/central decision maker who ties up everything, people, and ultimately the products will start falling apart. Jony Ive was supposed to be that central guy, although I believe that he cannot tightly control things like services (headed by Eddy Cue) and maybe software also, but still it will make a big impact if he was vetoing everything in Apple. That's the responsibility of the CEO, but Tim Cook is sadly not a product guy. He is only maco-managing, and not micro-managing things like Steve did, relying on people like Craig Federighi, Eddy Cue, Philip Schiller, etc. No matter how good these guys are, someone needs to make product/services level decisions above them for Apple to retain its magic.
    It is true that technology development does not tolerate "democratic decision-making" A technology company may adhere to democratic, civilian, open society values in its relations with the society and the state, but does not have to behave in one-to-one projective way in technology development. Those are totally different realms. I believe we cannot judge Apple's internal workings based on the executives' political or social stances or press releases. I believe that team have already digested that tradition during many years of working together. They are not tech world's "socialites", although the "newcomers" in the competition may be. Those are serious committed guys who have managed to tolerate Steve Jobs' fury since the beginning. The landscape you describe may arise after the retirement of that team but for now we can be sure that even Steve Jobs was present, things would not be substantially different from what we see now.
    I agree that these guys have survived Steve's fury and know very well how Apple works and that they need to work as a collective for Apple to keep innovating. But human nature is unfortunately feeble and vulnerable. It takes very strong will and determinism and honesty to keep operating like before. Earlier there was a very strong force called fear - thanks to Steve Jobs. Of course, fear alone did not make things work, as all individuals are highly capable at Apple. And I am not saying that these guys are completely self-centered. They are Apple Veterans and love the company, but still, it's difficult to maintain Status quo after Steve's death, and things are bound to change. 

    For e.g., under Steve, nobody was allowed to work outside Apple. Now you see Jony Ive working on non-tech, non-Apple products, giving interviews, going to fashion events. It seems he wants to be more well known to the world, to be known not just as an Apple designer but as a designer of varied products across domains, maybe the best designer to have existed on planet. He might deserve that badge, but when self-interests begins to creep into an individual, that's definitely going to affect the company negatively. And this applies to all people at Apple. I believe that Apple is what it is today because Steve placed Apple above everything, he cared about the products like no other. When you have the top guy in a company caring so much about its products and services, great things are bound to happen.
  • Reply 95 of 104
    SFCASFCA Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    Apple's magic is disappearing...

    iphone used have stable platform and now more plagued than ever...

    iMac has been out of sync for a while...don't forget what saved the company. 

    mac book pro is now paired up with LG 5K display??? 

    Apple, you have more than enough cash! Stop following the money. You are turning into MS




  • Reply 96 of 104
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    SFCA said:
    iphone used have stable platform and now more plagued than ever…
    Yeah, nothing but stability until now¡


    -or-

    You have selective memory on the reality that every year has had something that made something like you say Apple was doomed.
  • Reply 97 of 104
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    jkichline said:
    So here's my thought... it probably doesn't take three years to design the enclosure of the new MacBook Pro and the other components that encompass the design.  Chances are really good that they had the design already finished long ahead of time, but that other engineering teams were working on it.  I think you need to look at the things that were designed in the new laptop.

    First, it's very thin.  The screen is remarkably thin.  I can't imagine the sort of engineering it would take to do that while still maintaining rigidity and add a much better and brighter display.  In addition, the new hinge is all metal and again, works flawlessly.  I'm not saying these are huge, mind-blowing improvements, but it did take design and patents to make it work the way it does.

    You have a device that much thinner, and yet made of metal and perfectly solid feeling.  You have a completely redesigned keyboard that many reviewers are now saying is better that the original MacBook Pro keyboard.  You have a huge touchpad (OK that probably didn't take a lot of work) and then the TouchBar.  That took a lot of engineering whether you think of it as a gimmick or not.  You still have basically a self-contained computer running the TouchBar and TouchID and an OLED display.  Again, that stuff doesn't just "happen".

    So I sincerely doubt that the Apple industrial team has left the proverbial building.  Instead, they probably had a lot of these components already designed and had to wait for a number of technological "stars" to align, specifically Intel.  In the meantime, they would be best suited working on other projects instead of designing the next design of laptop expected in 2020.  Maybe, just maybe Apple is working on other things that are pushing technology and design forward. Things that you don't even see coming.  Maybe Apple already knows that laptops are "here to stay" but they are not on the forefront of where technology is headed.  Apple wants to skate the puck where it will be in the future.
    That's a very optimistic viewpoint.

    The merge of iOS and macOS team could be a good decision, as both of them sharing the same kernels, file systems, APIs, etc..  It could be much more efficient that just let one team did all the work.  It doesn't means that Macs would be doomed, either.

    I get why people were nuts these days, but I don't think they are abandoned the Macs right now.  That being said, there's no reason why they wouldn't do a specs-bump.  Some say that's because big things were coming, but nobody knows.
  • Reply 98 of 104
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    aSesame said:
    The merge of iOS and macOS team could be a good decision, as both of them sharing the same kernels, file systems, APIs, etc..
    1) They already use the same kernel, file system, APIs, etc. This happened from the very beginning.

    2) They will never be a merger of iOS and macOS into a single OS that will allow you to install a single combo update to your iDevice or Mac, the way you can with macOS to any other Mac. This doesn't make sense today and will not make sense in the future.
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 99 of 104
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    scottw2 said:
    I guess ynht said:

    Another thing that slows Mac development is Apple's reliance on Intel for an application processor. Apple doesn't face that delay and uncertainty for iPhone and iPad. Apple's work with TSMC on 7nm and 5nm processors for later in the decade puts a lot of pressure on Intel to step up its game. In recent years, Intel's biggest strategy in PC's has been partnering with Chinese makers of laptops based on the MacBook Air design. Moore's Law, it turns out, was a corporate strategy that Intel has since abandoned.
    Folks keep repeating this mantra as if repetition makes reality.

    The reality is that Intel has vastly improved performance per watt and has enabled extremely mobile laptops favored by Apple.  As nice as the A10 may be it can't do what the high end Core i7 does for the Mac and Intel has being going in the direction that Apple has wanted with the 4.5W TDP CoreM7.

    Intel hasn't been holding Apple back.  Intel has been catering to Apple's desires.  This holds true in 2016 as much as it did in 2005.


    I guess Intel is a convenient scapegoat for every Mac delay. The Mac Pro still has 2013 CPU and GPU which are Intel's and AMD's faults? The oh-so-thin, dongle-toting MBP 2016 is Intel's fault too? Or the un-upgradable 2014 Mac Mini, slower than its 2012 predecessor was due to Intel as well?

    Everyone looks at Apple's income statement and see iPhones and iPads make up 75% of revenue and Macs only 10%. It's all wrong. iPhones and iPads won't sell if there are no apps for them. And the only way to make iOS apps are with Macs (Hackintoshes are frankly not worth the headaches). Every developers I've met at Apple, Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc. all use Macs. About 70% of photographers I met use Macs. Video editors like me prefer Macs. All Jony care about these days are thinness. Sure there's a big segment of users (most students) who use an MBP as nothing more than a screen to watch cat videos. Give them a thin and light notebook. For us professionals who make a living of the computer, we don't mind a bit of thickness to trade for utilities.
    But it is Intel's problem that cause it to stuck on 16GB of memory.  Of course, it's not only Apple that having an issue on that.  So far, from what I've heard, Kaby Lake would stuck on 16G as well.  

    Intel also killed off the Iris Pro.  Maybe the true story is much more complex, but this means no eDRAM support, which also could benefits the memory.

    It's not about "who's fault", but Intel really did not delivered what Apple wants these days.
  • Reply 100 of 104
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    Soli said:
    aSesame said:
    The merge of iOS and macOS team could be a good decision, as both of them sharing the same kernels, file systems, APIs, etc..
    1) They already use the same kernel, file system, APIs, etc. This happened from the very beginning.

    2) They will never be a merger of iOS and macOS into a single OS that will allow you to install a single combo update to your iDevice or Mac, the way you can with macOS to any other Mac. This doesn't make sense today and will not make sense in the future.
    I didn't mean to merge both of them together, but it could be a whole lot easier to develop and catch up, as they both shared the same technology from inside.
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