Peter Thiel says 'age of Apple' at its end

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 86
    inteliboy said:
    Laugh all you want, though have you looked around? This isn't the usual "Apple is Doomed!" hyperbole we've heard about for decades.

    Apple has a serious problem brewing, even amongst die hard fans and Mac-dominant industries like design and film. People are fed up with Apple, their arrogance, and their stagnant product lineup. 

    Should we care? I normally wouldn't, but their complete disregard for their pro user base and Mac lineup actually directly bites into my work and career - and I see the tide shifting in the industry. Mac is not the go to weapon of choice anymore. Far from it actually. In fact I'd say their products, pro or not, are riddled with an "oh... is it any good?" stigma these days.


    --


    Side note:

    One could argue all their innovations have been behind the scenes, in the silicone, in their code, in products that are around the corner. Though it has felt like that has been the excuse for years now. "2016 will be the year". It wasn't.  TouchBar? I have one, and breaking decades of muscle reflex of touchtyping feels extremely clumsy. It IS clumsy. It may be useful if certain devs jump onboard, but at the moment, feels like a HUGE misfire. And really, this was it, Apple, for 2016, released a laptop with an OLED fn strip. Wow.
    You're overstating things, but I can say one thing: I am seeing dramatically larger numbers of Surface Pros at work, and enthusiasm for Macs amongst colleagues does not not seem to be what it used to be. I have not seen a single person with the new MBP, for instance. Not one. 

    Granted, that's just one data point...
  • Reply 62 of 86
    Peter thief has more axes to grind than Paul Bunyan. Gee, Peter. I'm sorry gawker hurt your feelings. But, you were and are a public figure. Goes to show… no matter what your race, color or creed, you can be an asshole almost anytime you want.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 63 of 86
    foggyhill said:
    Funny how people don't seem to get a clue about well, anything.

    Apple just introduced two ecosystem elements in 2 years that within 3-4 years will be beefed up to a cooperating, totally integrated cluster of personalized services and will cover much of the slack from any stagnating Iphone sales.

    Both the Apple Watch and Airpods are selling really really well, if they sell 40M watches and 40M Airpods (not impossible) in 2017 that's around 25B in revenues

    And it is just the start, nobody can integrate their products as tightly together, not even Samsung (since they don't control their OS).

    When smart watches + Airpods + AR glasses (that are certainly coming) hit $100 B in revenues in 3 years will the Apple is doomed crowd eat crow... No, not at all I gather.

    I agree with that. Apple needs to make house stable and strong three pillars. Airpods, powerfull LTE Watch, and reliable Siri. It can create independent section that can slowly replace iPhones for some. And AR glasses will add another optional pillar and can be cash cow.
  • Reply 64 of 86
    I would not count Apple out. I've been hearing this since they began. I'm sure the day will come, but I think there is much they can do. I am dismayed at the progress with Desktops and the limitations of the current MacBooks and iPhones vs the competition. They need to be leading. No new MacPro. No new Mac Mini. Computers still are important.
  • Reply 65 of 86
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,658member
    Peter Thiel is simply fabricating a narrative around his own narrow-minded perspective of Apple, much like Michael Dell, Steve Ballmer, and other self professed experts and attention seekers have done in the past. It's a lazy, simpleminded, and shortsighted way of looking at complex topics, i.e., the antithesis of system thinking, and one that is a characteristic trait in the minds of the people that are forming the nucleus of the new regime. Put simply, rather than looking at problems holistically you just blow some incoherent tones out your ass and hope that like minded non thinkers with a media outlet will embrace it as newsworthy. Get used to living with this pattern.

    The iPhone even in its original limited capability and limited functionality first version brilliantly captured several critical use cases within a very simple form factor that became the archetype for all subsequent incarnations of smartphones that follow to this day. Once the iPhone was released, shipping any smartphone other than one that essentially mimicked the iPhone form factor and functionality became a lesson in futility and waste of resources. If you want to put a "zenith" label on that type of invention without qualifying it with "oh by the way, it forever changed the world" you're engaging in revisionist history and undervaluing the ongoing value that this new industry segment continues to deliver to the world. I guess a Thiel equivalent self proclaimed expert of the 1920s could have declared that Ford Motor Company had attained zenith status on automotive technology once the Model T and mass production of automobiles was conceived. In fact, the Model T and the iPhone each captured several essential use cases and needs in their respective customer bases that will persist for many decades and beyond. It's only a matter of how the value delivered by each iteration of each product continues to evolve to satisfy the escalating needs and expectations of customers.

    Product evolution requires enhancing every physical and functional aspect of the product, platform, and ecosystem in which it exists that needs to be enhanced to meet the needs/requirements. Some things about a continuously evolving product will not change a great deal, like the basic shape and function of the wheel or doors, while others will change radically. But as long as the need exists the products that are purposely built to satisfy the need will continue to evolve. Other than the telecommunication, media consumption, geo location, and imaging (traditional camera functions) embodied in the current iPhone everything else that it can do, from personal health assistance to presence technology to voice interaction, is still in its infancy and the greatest potential is still ahead of it.

    As far as the form factor is concerned, which people like Thiel overemphasize when they use words like "design," the iPhone has always been about removing everything that is unnecessary or that gets in the way of delivering value and functionality. Adding something to the form factor that serves no essential purpose, like the tail fins from 1950s automobiles or massive rear wings on 4-banger street tuners, isn't design, it's like bedazzling clothing with sequins and costume jewelry. Fashion, whether good or bad, is not design. 
    netmageStrangeDays
  • Reply 66 of 86
    glynhglynh Posts: 133member
    Peter who?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 67 of 86
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Peter thief has more axes to grind than Paul Bunyan. Gee, Peter. I'm sorry gawker hurt your feelings. But, you were and are a public figure. Goes to show… no matter what your race, color or creed, you can be an asshole almost anytime you want.
    Is that a typo, or is there a reason you're calling him a thief?

    I'm not aware of any allegation against him that would give rise to that.
  • Reply 68 of 86
    It's always good to know what a woman-hating, racist birther supporting white guy thinks. 

    Of course, that's a description fitting most techie boyz, but still. 
  • Reply 69 of 86
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    dewme said:
    Peter Thiel is simply fabricating a narrative around his own narrow-minded perspective of Apple, much like Michael Dell, Steve Ballmer, and other self professed experts and attention seekers have done in the past. It's a lazy, simpleminded, and shortsighted way of looking at complex topics, i.e., the antithesis of system thinking, and one that is a characteristic trait in the minds of the people that are forming the nucleus of the new regime. Put simply, rather than looking at problems holistically you just blow some incoherent tones out your ass and hope that like minded non thinkers with a media outlet will embrace it as newsworthy. Get used to living with this pattern.

    The iPhone even in its original limited capability and limited functionality first version brilliantly captured several critical use cases within a very simple form factor that became the archetype for all subsequent incarnations of smartphones that follow to this day. Once the iPhone was released, shipping any smartphone other than one that essentially mimicked the iPhone form factor and functionality became a lesson in futility and waste of resources. If you want to put a "zenith" label on that type of invention without qualifying it with "oh by the way, it forever changed the world" you're engaging in revisionist history and undervaluing the ongoing value that this new industry segment continues to deliver to the world. I guess a Thiel equivalent self proclaimed expert of the 1920s could have declared that Ford Motor Company had attained zenith status on automotive technology once the Model T and mass production of automobiles was conceived. In fact, the Model T and the iPhone each captured several essential use cases and needs in their respective customer bases that will persist for many decades and beyond. It's only a matter of how the value delivered by each iteration of each product continues to evolve to satisfy the escalating needs and expectations of customers.

    Product evolution requires enhancing every physical and functional aspect of the product, platform, and ecosystem in which it exists that needs to be enhanced to meet the needs/requirements. Some things about a continuously evolving product will not change a great deal, like the basic shape and function of the wheel or doors, while others will change radically. But as long as the need exists the products that are purposely built to satisfy the need will continue to evolve. Other than the telecommunication, media consumption, geo location, and imaging (traditional camera functions) embodied in the current iPhone everything else that it can do, from personal health assistance to presence technology to voice interaction, is still in its infancy and the greatest potential is still ahead of it.

    As far as the form factor is concerned, which people like Thiel overemphasize when they use words like "design," the iPhone has always been about removing everything that is unnecessary or that gets in the way of delivering value and functionality. Adding something to the form factor that serves no essential purpose, like the tail fins from 1950s automobiles or massive rear wings on 4-banger street tuners, isn't design, it's like bedazzling clothing with sequins and costume jewelry. Fashion, whether good or bad, is not design. 
    Nice post. I think the lack of systems or holistic thinking is characteristic of extreme left-hemisphere types who tend to be aggressive libertarians with little social conscience. Thus the support of Trump, even though he seems to have an incisive intelligence in some respects.

    But the weak contribution from the holistic, intuitive and socially aware right hemisphere leads to an inability to imagine constructive cooperative futures, which is the specific domain that Apple operates in, and why this Jobs-bequeathed project is so important to sustain.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 70 of 86
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,817member
    AppleBum said:
    And Apple has certainly shown that they can't compete in markets outside of their current ones. Look at...um...smartphones back when Apple was a Mac company.
    Not to mention the profits Apple's so called 'failures' generate such as the Watch and TV.  Larger than many of the so called rivals generate across all their entire product lines, and according to DED's research 10 x several so called rivals combined total profits.  Theil and other Apple doom merchants believe everything they read on anti Apple blogs it seems.  That or he is simply into stock manipulation and knows full well he is full of it.
    netmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 71 of 86
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,817member
    Full credit to Ars blog... this cartoon sums up self made experts and the morons that follow them perfectly.


    netmagedewmeStrangeDayssuddenly newtonbrucemc
  • Reply 72 of 86
    Isn't it expected? Thiis is teh same as microwave oven. What else do you want from that appliance. Market is saturated and it is predicatble. The most you could expect make them cheaper and low quality so they break and you could count on "garbage/recycle economy" to generate demand and profit. That's the way it is with everything. Or you could think of what's next in "information domain".
  • Reply 73 of 86
    B.S.!
  • Reply 74 of 86
    jdgazjdgaz Posts: 405member
    Reminds me of the Thomas J Watson attribution when head of IBM in 1943 "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers"
  • Reply 75 of 86
    inteliboy said:
    Laugh all you want, though have you looked around? This isn't the usual "Apple is Doomed!" hyperbole we've heard about for decades.

    Apple has a serious problem brewing, even amongst die hard fans and Mac-dominant industries like design and film. People are fed up with Apple, their arrogance, and their stagnant product lineup. 

    Should we care? I normally wouldn't, but their complete disregard for their pro user base and Mac lineup actually directly bites into my work and career - and I see the tide shifting in the industry. Mac is not the go to weapon of choice anymore. Far from it actually. In fact I'd say their products, pro or not, are riddled with an "oh... is it any good?" stigma these days.


    --


    Side note:

    One could argue all their innovations have been behind the scenes, in the silicone, in their code, in products that are around the corner. Though it has felt like that has been the excuse for years now. "2016 will be the year". It wasn't.  TouchBar? I have one, and breaking decades of muscle reflex of touchtyping feels extremely clumsy. It IS clumsy. It may be useful if certain devs jump onboard, but at the moment, feels like a HUGE misfire. And really, this was it, Apple, for 2016, released a laptop with an OLED fn strip. Wow.
    You're overstating things, but I can say one thing: I am seeing dramatically larger numbers of Surface Pros at work, and enthusiasm for Macs amongst colleagues does not not seem to be what it used to be. I have not seen a single person with the new MBP, for instance. Not one. 

    Granted, that's just one data point...
    I also agree, mac's are becoming less dominant in my field of film, design and visual effects. Many of the big shops we know, are already using linux for some of the specialty vfx programs, but our shop is moving to linux/pc boxes for effects/3D and our editors could definitely move to PC's soon, because we stopped using Final Cut Pro 2 years ago. Because of apple's price point, graphic card choice, lack of enterprise server/storage systems, choice to go less professional in it's film editing programs (they are trying to catch up now), we just don't see the advantage at this point. I love apple products and have been a fan for a long time and so is my place of business. But we are seeing and feeling a trend in the last few years. Less professional gear and more iPhone type of tech aimed at family's. Seeing more google phones lately too. That's fine and Apple will do fine for awhile, they aren't going anywhere soon. I don't know anyone at work in my creative tech field or at home that has recently purchased an Apple watch, tablet, or computer in the last year, that's crazy!! I live in a big city and still haven't seen a new mac pro (trash can) in the wild... that's crazy!! One co-worker returned his apple watch actually, he felt he was too distracted and didn't need more notification gear. Apple does need to launch a new absolutely useful (I want that) product soon however, to stay on top. 

    Apple is loosing it's old demographic that lifted them in the late 90's to the mid 2000's. I do think apple probably has some cool things in the works. I'm just hoping its not more gimmicky, un-needed tech like the watch or VR/AR. We don't need more things to distract us and potentially add to the ADHD and autism spectrum cases (sorry, off-the-cuff personal opinion). I think we need tech that will make our lives a bit easier, simpler and engaged with each other at this point. We need great safe AI and maybe a personal domestic robot at home. I just want a robot to do minor cleaning and house pickup, while I'm at work and asleep. It can be slow and just have one arm... i don't mind :) Then I'll have more time with my family and friends.... what really matters. 
  • Reply 76 of 86
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 13,037member
    bdkennedy said:
    You can be emotional about how Apple used to be, but the waiting is over. Every year Tim Cook says, "We have great products in the pipeline." That's executive talk.

    Under Steve Jobs, there were 4 revolutionary products in 10 years. Under Tim Cook, there have been none.
    Nonsense. Retina MacBooks are awesome. Retina iMac is awesome. iPad Pro is awesome. Watch is awesome. The 7 is awesome. AirPods are awesome. All new products that were "in the pipeline" years back. New products != new product categories. Expecting revolution and not evolution is counter to a big part of how Apple rolls -- iterative improvement and refinement.

    http://www.macworld.com/article/1151235/macs/apple-rolls.html
    edited January 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 77 of 86
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 13,037member

    inteliboy said:
    Laugh all you want, though have you looked around? This isn't the usual "Apple is Doomed!" hyperbole we've heard about for decades.

    Apple has a serious problem brewing, even amongst die hard fans and Mac-dominant industries like design and film. People are fed up with Apple, their arrogance, and their stagnant product lineup. 

    Should we care? I normally wouldn't, but their complete disregard for their pro user base and Mac lineup actually directly bites into my work and career - and I see the tide shifting in the industry. Mac is not the go to weapon of choice anymore. Far from it actually. In fact I'd say their products, pro or not, are riddled with an "oh... is it any good?" stigma these days.


    --


    Side note:

    One could argue all their innovations have been behind the scenes, in the silicone, in their code, in products that are around the corner. Though it has felt like that has been the excuse for years now. "2016 will be the year". It wasn't.  TouchBar? I have one, and breaking decades of muscle reflex of touchtyping feels extremely clumsy. It IS clumsy. It may be useful if certain devs jump onboard, but at the moment, feels like a HUGE misfire. And really, this was it, Apple, for 2016, released a laptop with an OLED fn strip. Wow.
    Apple is DOOMed, apple is arrogant, these iterative improvements in fundamental technology components aren't really innovation, yada yada... Cliche nonsense.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 78 of 86
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 13,037member

    propod said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    it's psychos like Thiel that should fuel Apple's board's rage into action and blow out the hybrid/electric car industry and whatever else they see worth pursuing. He knows Tim is passive. He definitely wouldn't of had the balls to say that if Steve were alive and well.
    You met Steve Jobs.

    Seriously, we get it.

    Just put it in your signature or something. 
    No, he worked for him. So I suppose he knows a lot more about Apple than you. Have you worked for Apple or have any inside information? Please share or XXXX.
    Having worked at Apple possibly two decades ago doesn't make him an expert on Jobs or what goes on inside modern Apple behind closed doors today. Seriously. Just another naysayer on the internet.
    edited January 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 79 of 86
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 13,037member
    inteliboy said:
    Laugh all you want, though have you looked around? This isn't the usual "Apple is Doomed!" hyperbole we've heard about for decades.

    Apple has a serious problem brewing, even amongst die hard fans and Mac-dominant industries like design and film. People are fed up with Apple, their arrogance, and their stagnant product lineup. 

    Should we care? I normally wouldn't, but their complete disregard for their pro user base and Mac lineup actually directly bites into my work and career - and I see the tide shifting in the industry. Mac is not the go to weapon of choice anymore. Far from it actually. In fact I'd say their products, pro or not, are riddled with an "oh... is it any good?" stigma these days.


    --


    Side note:

    One could argue all their innovations have been behind the scenes, in the silicone, in their code, in products that are around the corner. Though it has felt like that has been the excuse for years now. "2016 will be the year". It wasn't.  TouchBar? I have one, and breaking decades of muscle reflex of touchtyping feels extremely clumsy. It IS clumsy. It may be useful if certain devs jump onboard, but at the moment, feels like a HUGE misfire. And really, this was it, Apple, for 2016, released a laptop with an OLED fn strip. Wow.
    You're overstating things, but I can say one thing: I am seeing dramatically larger numbers of Surface Pros at work, and enthusiasm for Macs amongst colleagues does not not seem to be what it used to be. I have not seen a single person with the new MBP, for instance. Not one. 

    Granted, that's just one data point...
    I also agree, mac's are becoming less dominant in my field of film, design and visual effects. Many of the big shops we know, are already using linux for some of the specialty vfx programs, but our shop is moving to linux/pc boxes for effects/3D and our editors could definitely move to PC's soon, because we stopped using Final Cut Pro 2 years ago. Because of apple's price point, graphic card choice, lack of enterprise server/storage systems, choice to go less professional in it's film editing programs (they are trying to catch up now), we just don't see the advantage at this point. I love apple products and have been a fan for a long time and so is my place of business. But we are seeing and feeling a trend in the last few years. Less professional gear and more iPhone type of tech aimed at family's. Seeing more google phones lately too. That's fine and Apple will do fine for awhile, they aren't going anywhere soon. I don't know anyone at work in my creative tech field or at home that has recently purchased an Apple watch, tablet, or computer in the last year, that's crazy!! I live in a big city and still haven't seen a new mac pro (trash can) in the wild... that's crazy!! One co-worker returned his apple watch actually, he felt he was too distracted and didn't need more notification gear. Apple does need to launch a new absolutely useful (I want that) product soon however, to stay on top. 

    Apple is loosing it's old demographic that lifted them in the late 90's to the mid 2000's. I do think apple probably has some cool things in the works. I'm just hoping its not more gimmicky, un-needed tech like the watch or VR/AR. We don't need more things to distract us and potentially add to the ADHD and autism spectrum cases (sorry, off-the-cuff personal opinion). I think we need tech that will make our lives a bit easier, simpler and engaged with each other at this point. We need great safe AI and maybe a personal domestic robot at home. I just want a robot to do minor cleaning and house pickup, while I'm at work and asleep. It can be slow and just have one arm... i don't mind :) Then I'll have more time with my family and friends.... what really matters. 
    Claiming the Watch is a gimmick takes all the air out of your post. Really. Goes without saying but it's not a gimmick -- activity tracking (use mine for workouts 5 days a week), select notifications, payments, wireless iPod, home automation apps. All useful use cases I use every ay and week.

    But, uh, yeah robots....
    brucemcwatto_cobra
  • Reply 80 of 86
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    inteliboy said:
    Laugh all you want, though have you looked around? This isn't the usual "Apple is Doomed!" hyperbole we've heard about for decades.

    Apple has a serious problem brewing, even amongst die hard fans and Mac-dominant industries like design and film. People are fed up with Apple, their arrogance, and their stagnant product lineup. 

    Should we care? I normally wouldn't, but their complete disregard for their pro user base and Mac lineup actually directly bites into my work and career - and I see the tide shifting in the industry. Mac is not the go to weapon of choice anymore. Far from it actually. In fact I'd say their products, pro or not, are riddled with an "oh... is it any good?" stigma these days.


    --


    Side note:

    One could argue all their innovations have been behind the scenes, in the silicone, in their code, in products that are around the corner. Though it has felt like that has been the excuse for years now. "2016 will be the year". It wasn't.  TouchBar? I have one, and breaking decades of muscle reflex of touchtyping feels extremely clumsy. It IS clumsy. It may be useful if certain devs jump onboard, but at the moment, feels like a HUGE misfire. And really, this was it, Apple, for 2016, released a laptop with an OLED fn strip. Wow.
    You're overstating things, but I can say one thing: I am seeing dramatically larger numbers of Surface Pros at work, and enthusiasm for Macs amongst colleagues does not not seem to be what it used to be. I have not seen a single person with the new MBP, for instance. Not one. 

    Granted, that's just one data point...
    I also agree, mac's are becoming less dominant in my field of film, design and visual effects. Many of the big shops we know, are already using linux for some of the specialty vfx programs, but our shop is moving to linux/pc boxes for effects/3D and our editors could definitely move to PC's soon, because we stopped using Final Cut Pro 2 years ago. Because of apple's price point, graphic card choice, lack of enterprise server/storage systems, choice to go less professional in it's film editing programs (they are trying to catch up now), we just don't see the advantage at this point. I love apple products and have been a fan for a long time and so is my place of business. But we are seeing and feeling a trend in the last few years. Less professional gear and more iPhone type of tech aimed at family's. Seeing more google phones lately too. That's fine and Apple will do fine for awhile, they aren't going anywhere soon. I don't know anyone at work in my creative tech field or at home that has recently purchased an Apple watch, tablet, or computer in the last year, that's crazy!! I live in a big city and still haven't seen a new mac pro (trash can) in the wild... that's crazy!! One co-worker returned his apple watch actually, he felt he was too distracted and didn't need more notification gear. Apple does need to launch a new absolutely useful (I want that) product soon however, to stay on top. 

    Apple is loosing it's old demographic that lifted them in the late 90's to the mid 2000's. I do think apple probably has some cool things in the works. I'm just hoping its not more gimmicky, un-needed tech like the watch or VR/AR. We don't need more things to distract us and potentially add to the ADHD and autism spectrum cases (sorry, off-the-cuff personal opinion). I think we need tech that will make our lives a bit easier, simpler and engaged with each other at this point. We need great safe AI and maybe a personal domestic robot at home. I just want a robot to do minor cleaning and house pickup, while I'm at work and asleep. It can be slow and just have one arm... i don't mind :) Then I'll have more time with my family and friends.... what really matters. 
    I have to agree that Apple lost a huge chunk of goodwill in the video editing market and sales as well, probably, when they axed Final Cut Pro 7 without so much as an upgrade path to a worthy successor. Big mistake, in my opinion.

    On the hardware side, I think a judgment on their commitment to the pro Mac market should be tentative until they get reorganized and staffed in their new campus. It's a real possibility that they don't have the personnel resources to serve the top end of the pro market as well as their increasingly complex high end consumer products. There's a good chance they're stretched thin, and no amount of money can help when they don't have working space. Just my reasoning for suspending judgment.
    watto_cobra
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