I'll be happy with my 2013 6 core Mac Pro for a few more years for sure, it is a fabulous Mac, probably the best ever and I've owned every one from the Mac II fx on, but darn it, I wish Apple hadn't abandoned the 'professional software' I still use daily, namely Aperture.
I find the abandonment of Aperture particularly puzzling. It's difficult to believe they could not maintain that app with a small, focused team completely zeroed in on improving that product.
If the code base was devent one guy working full time could have done the job. After alll the overall app was done all he would be doing is refining the app. There is allsorts of open source out there basically sheppards by one guy.
Which brings up another suggestion why not open source the abandoned apps? That would be one way to judge interest. As it is though i suspect that Aperature had far fewer users than postings here imply.
So we can have a mac book pro with upgrade-able parts, ports that are useful today and more than 16GB ram? that would be a start.
Replaceable SSD and RAM would be a definite benefit.
What is people's obsession with holding on to such obsolete necessity? Isn't just BETTER to start making machines that don't need to be upgraded?
I don't think some people realize that buying the low end model and then upgrading it later with cheaper parts is NOT something Apple or any company should be catering to.
The ability to easily repair something is a huge "feature". Wanting to spend 4K every two years instead of upgrading some parts is the sign of a moron.
I'll be happy with my 2013 6 core Mac Pro for a few more years for sure, it is a fabulous Mac, probably the best ever and I've owned every one from the Mac II fx on, but darn it, I wish Apple hadn't abandoned the 'professional software' I still use daily, namely Aperture.
I find the abandonment of Aperture particularly puzzling. It's difficult to believe they could not maintain that app with a small, focused team completely zeroed in on improving that product.
its about FOCUS
Apple can't be distracted by some stuff like Aperture
Aperture was a well loved and powerful piece of software. Apple ceded a large number of professional photographers to Adobe by abandoning it. Professionals kept Apple going through the dark days in the 90's before Jobs came back, though I bet you are too young to remember that.
So we can have a mac book pro with upgrade-able parts, ports that are useful today and more than 16GB ram? that would be a start.
I'd like to address this. While I too would appreciate more Macs with upgradeable RAM and storage, that's about the practical limit of "upgradeable parts" for anything other than the Mac Pro. Consumers don't generally *ever* upgrade their parts, and the tiny percentage who do just use that to put off buying another Mac -- so I think you can see the problem with that in a consumer-focused company. That said, there's another reason Apple has sealed up its consumer (and even some pro) Macs -- the repair rate dropped precipitously once they started doing that (I worked as a tech and saw this first-hand). Again, I still think Apple could stand to make the RAM and storage more upgradeable in more models than they do now, but we have to stop pretending that doesn't result in a hit on their sales.
As for the 16GB RAM limit on the current MBPs, this has been repeatedly explained (here and elsewhere) as an Intel limit, not an Apple imposition. This processor doesn't support more than 16GB of LPDDR, full stop, and neither does the next "tock" group of processors from them. Thanks to the fact that the SSD in them is multiple-times faster than standard SSDs, this is really far less of an issue for 95 percent of the market than it's made out to be. And for that remaining five percent ... well the fact that you're five percent of what is already a tiny "super pro" market is the answer there.
"Ports that are useful today" is a nonsensical comment. You mean "ports that were useful and slow 10 years ago," don't you? USB-C/TB3 is probably the most useful port ever invented -- it can be made to connect to anything with, at most, a small adapter, and has speed capability we haven't even started to fully exploit. I'm always amused that the same people (literally in this case) who want their Macs to be more "future-proofed" by allowing for parts upgrades don't want them to be "future-proofed" in ports. This was the same nonsense I heard when the iMac came out. It was a dumb thing to say then, and remains a dumb thing to say now.
To answer other topics about software, I too mourn the loss of Aperture -- but I can also acknowledge that the market for it was ALWAYS tiny, and has since become microscopic. The solution there is to keep pushing our Photoshop-escue makers, like Adobe and Affinity and Macphun, to develop some level of CMS/DAM in their excellent editor products (or, in the case of Adobe, to simply develop a better CMS/DAM than Lightroom). That fact that third-party companies aren't falling all over themselves to develop new ones speaks to the volume of sales they expect they'd get from it, which again goes to the true size of the market we're speaking of ("small" would be speaking generously of it). Sorry, but that's the truth of the matter.
I'm intrigued by Cook's comments of doing more with the creative/pro market, and like everyone else wish it wouldn't take so long to see what he means.
After watching how many of my colleagues have switched or are planning to switch, I wonder how many of us pro's that require MacPro level desktops will be around to care when this comes out sometime in 2018-2020. Sorry Timmy, your continued lies about "road maps, pipelines, and pros are important to us" don't match your actions. Baring a miracle, after 33 years on the Mac, we are doing the switch. The March event is the last straw and I give a less than 1% chance of an updated MacPro.
The low amount of sales will then be blamed on a small market and the net result will be that developers will stop making pro software. Good job Timmy.
So we can have a mac book pro with upgrade-able parts, ports that are useful today and more than 16GB ram? that would be a start.
Upgradable parts are definitely needed. IMO, it's completely ridiculous and anti-customer that end-users can't upgrade/replace battery, memory and storage just because Ive doesn't like lines in the case. But the ports ARE useful today. I don't understand what's so hard about sticking a $4 adapter on the end of an existing cable, at least insofar as the USB-A to USB-C is concerned. It's true that other adapters cost a bit more. Just make believe the cable always had the adapter on it. All my cables and my CF card reader have little adapters on them. More than 16GB ram? That should certainly be an option, but I don't think most users, even pro users, need it. Everyone has their own priorities, but upgradable storage, battery and RAM would be mine. However, my old MBP recently died and I already bought the late-2016 model. So no matter what they do, I'm out of the market for at least the next three years. (I kept my last MBP 8 years). But that's just me.
So we can have a mac book pro with upgrade-able parts, ports that are useful today and more than 16GB ram? that would be a start.
Replaceable SSD and RAM would be a definite benefit.
What is people's obsession with holding on to such obsolete necessity? Isn't just BETTER to start making machines that don't need to be upgraded?
I don't think some people realize that buying the low end model and then upgrading it later with cheaper parts is NOT something Apple or any company should be catering to.
It has nothing to do with cheaper parts (although Apple's prices for memory and storage ARE ripoffs). It's buying what one needs today with viable options to upgrade later. Let's say I'm a photographer, but not a videographer. I might buy a machine with a 1TB drive. Then my business changes and I'm doing lots of video, often on the road. Well now I need a 2TB or 3TB machine. But I have to buy a whole new machine after paying Apple's high prices? Or, I have to give up my machine to get the battery replaced? This is all ridiculous. Apple or any company should be making it easy to maintain their machines. Instead, Apple has gone in the opposite direction. I had a late-2008 MBP and it was great: I upgraded the memory when I needed to, I upgraded the hard disk twice and I replaced the battery, all without a trip to an Apple store and all without having to give up the machine. That was a great design. Give me one good reason why Apple's SSD can't be plug and play. Besides, glue is a lousy way to construct a computer.
I don't know whether Apple designs machines this way because of Ive's obsession with thinness or his opposition to having lines in the case or whether it's a cynical attempt to get people to upgrade more often, but as per my post above, it's anti-consumer and as far as I'm concerned, my current MBP will be my last unless Apple changes it.
Your argument is as logical as saying that developers should create software apps that never need to be updated.
Sorry Timmy, your continued lies about "road maps, pipelines, and pros are important to us" don't match your actions.
You're claiming has no plans about future products (road maps) or products that will be ready to be released in the near future (pipeline)?
Your definition of near future?
[irrelevant image]
So because the Mac Pro hasn't been updated in a ridiculously long time that means that Apple is doing absolutely NOTHING? You're also claiming Apple has zero plans for any future products and will have no products coming out this year that will be used a single professional? Do you really want to make such a stupid claim? How about giving Tim Cook some help by saying that he should take people off landscaping duty at Apple Park so they can get back to working on the next Mac Pro?¡ But I don't think you actually believe there is no road map in place or that nothing in the pipeline.
Sorry Timmy, your continued lies about "road maps, pipelines, and pros are important to us" don't match your actions.
You're claiming has no plans about future products (road maps) or products that will be ready to be released in the near future (pipeline)?
Your definition of near future?
[irrelevant image]
So because the Mac Pro hasn't been updated in a ridiculously long time that means that Apple is doing absolutely NOTHING? You're also claiming Apple has zero plans for any future products and will have no products coming out this year that will be used a single professional? Do you really want to make such a stupid claim? How about giving Tim Cook some help by saying that he should take people off landscaping duty at Apple Park so they can get back to working on the next Mac Pro?¡
What are you even talking about. I don't care if Apple is making iPhones, doing a lot of great things, landscaping their campus or what ever. All I care about is what affects my company. We are talking about Pro Desktops and only about Pro Desktops. HP and Dell have updated their workstations twice in that time which means my competitors using PC are far ahead of what we have. 44 core Xeon E5's, modern graphic cards, DDR4 Ram, tons of expansion....
Did I say Apple is a bad company. NO, I didn't. They are doing fantastic in many areas. Unfortunately for me, they are not in the areas that I need. Apple is not catering to the Pro market so Tim's words are complete crap to me. HP and Dell will be releasing their 3rd update soon. I can not afford to have my company die waiting for Apple. We badly require additional machines and have machines that need to be replaced It will be hell in high water before I buy their current joke of machine at the prices they are asking. I don't really care what your opinion is, bottom line is Apple will soon be loosing another long time Mac using company.
Sorry Timmy, your continued lies about "road maps, pipelines, and pros are important to us" don't match your actions.
You're claiming has no plans about future products (road maps) or products that will be ready to be released in the near future (pipeline)?
Your definition of near future?
[irrelevant image]
So because the Mac Pro hasn't been updated in a ridiculously long time that means that Apple is doing absolutely NOTHING? You're also claiming Apple has zero plans for any future products and will have no products coming out this year that will be used a single professional? Do you really want to make such a stupid claim? How about giving Tim Cook some help by saying that he should take people off landscaping duty at Apple Park so they can get back to working on the next Mac Pro?¡ But I don't think you actually believe there is no road map in place or that nothing in the pipeline.
I didn't say or claim any of those things, please put your straw man back in the barn.
I'll repeat the question: what is your definition of "near future"?
The image was intended to illustrate that Apple don't seem to be in any sort of rush right now, so there might be a fair wait yet.
Sorry Timmy, your continued lies about "road maps, pipelines, and pros are important to us" don't match your actions.
You're claiming has no plans about future products (road maps) or products that will be ready to be released in the near future (pipeline)?
Your definition of near future?
[irrelevant image]
So because the Mac Pro hasn't been updated in a ridiculously long time that means that Apple is doing absolutely NOTHING? You're also claiming Apple has zero plans for any future products and will have no products coming out this year that will be used a single professional? Do you really want to make such a stupid claim? How about giving Tim Cook some help by saying that he should take people off landscaping duty at Apple Park so they can get back to working on the next Mac Pro?¡
What are you even talking about. I don't care if Apple is making iPhones, doing a lot of great things, landscaping their campus or what ever. All I care about is what affects my company. We are talking about Pro Desktops and only about Pro Desktops. HP and Dell have updated their workstations twice in that time which means my competitors using PC are far ahead of what we have. 44 core Xeon E5's, modern graphic cards, DDR4 Ram, tons of expansion....
Did I say Apple is a bad company. NO, I didn't. They are doing fantastic in many areas. Unfortunately for me, they are not in the areas that I need. Apple is not catering to the Pro market so Tim's words are complete crap to me. HP and Dell will be releasing their 3rd update soon. I can not afford to have my company die waiting for Apple. We badly require additional machines and have machines that need to be replaced It will be hell in high water before I buy their current joke of machine at the prices they are asking. I don't really care what your opinion is, bottom line is Apple will soon be loosing another long time Mac using company.
I'm talking about your exact words. You stated quite clearly that Tim Cook has been LYING about having an road maps for the company and LYING about there being pipeline. All of these things are clearly false, yet you still made the claim.
Even if you were making unsubstantiated claims that Tim Cook is making promises to you, you're current reasoning that "HP created a machine that had this and that" is not a reasonable argument that Apple should be copying everything HP is doing. Just because they bought HP's HQ doesn't mean they need to become HP.
I get it, you want something specific and you're not getting your exact needs met. You may even want 64 GiB of non-LPDDR RAM in a Mac notebook that uses a desktop CPU and brings back the HDD because you like the higher capacity for less money over the reliability, size and performance of an SSD. That's fine! You can "wish for" whatever you want, but when you start making claims that a CEO is LYING to you and then trying making silly claims that there are no road maps or products in the pipeline, you sound like a deranged child.
My suggestion to you—and with everyone else not happy with how a corporation chooses to conduct business legally—is to choose another company that best suits your needs. For example, I'd love to use this app with my Mac but Apple has removed SNMP support from their latest AEBS for reasons I can't begin to understand. That means I have to deal with the current AEBS or buy a router from a different vendor—but there is no crying on a fucking message board about how Tim Cook has forsaken you.
I'll be happy with my 2013 6 core Mac Pro for a few more years for sure, it is a fabulous Mac, probably the best ever and I've owned every one from the Mac II fx on, but darn it, I wish Apple hadn't abandoned the 'professional software' I still use daily, namely Aperture.
Lightroom is pretty nice. I just came back after taking a few years off. It's come a LONG way!
... and then he goes on to talk about iPhones, iPads, Apple Watch, AirPods, ApplePay, retail stores, green energy, and diversity. Sorry, which one of those underscores a commitment to Pro customers. exactly?
Not very convincing. Pro customers haven't been more than an afterthought for almost a decade. They say that every now and then, and occasionally even release a "Pro" labeled product, but even those are increasingly inadequate for pro/prosumer demands. Even the sexy "new" Mac Pro (released *4 YEARS* ago) lacked any kind of internal storage and no front USB ports, so you ended up with a beautiful machine... surrounded by a rats nest of cables and third-party boxes and an awkward reach-around to plug in usb sticks.
But it's ok, Apple. You're really not the only game in town, so I'm abandoning you. I've been an Apple customer/fan since my pre-teen self was drooling over my first Apple //c. I even stuck it out through the Performa days. *shudder* But being in IT, I'm platform bilingual, and the usability/reliability gap between Windows and macOS has narrowed considerably since the late 90's. I built a PC in 2013 to replace my aging 2008 Mac Pro when the 2012 machines rose beyond what I was willing to pay for a home workstation, and Apple didn't have any other options but a Mac Mini (underpowered) and the iMac (I'm not going to replace the monitor every time I upgrade). Now, I've replaced my 2012 MacBook Pro with a Dell XPS because, well, let's see... With the Dell, I have USB-C, AND all the other ports I want - with no adaptors, upgradeable RAM and SSD, ~12 hours of battery life, and saved $900. (Partly because Apple raised the price 20% on the 15" model) Oh, but it is a few millimeters thicker. *sigh* Within the next few weeks, I'll replace my 2009 Mac Mini HTPC with an Intel NUC or similar, and the only piece of Apple hardware remaining in my home will be my iPhone... which is still a great, very secure smartphone. Since that's what Apple's focusing on these days, I expect that to continue to be the case.
But as far as computers go, all I can say is... so long, and thanks for all the fish.
If Apple were your girlfriend and you were dumping her, she would have walked out 2 sentences into that silly speech.
Comments
Which brings up another suggestion why not open source the abandoned apps? That would be one way to judge interest. As it is though i suspect that Aperature had far fewer users than postings here imply.
Professionals kept Apple going through the dark days in the 90's before Jobs came back, though I bet you are too young to remember that.
The low amount of sales will then be blamed on a small market and the net result will be that developers will stop making pro software. Good job Timmy.
I don't know whether Apple designs machines this way because of Ive's obsession with thinness or his opposition to having lines in the case or whether it's a cynical attempt to get people to upgrade more often, but as per my post above, it's anti-consumer and as far as I'm concerned, my current MBP will be my last unless Apple changes it.
Your argument is as logical as saying that developers should create software apps that never need to be updated.
Did I say Apple is a bad company. NO, I didn't. They are doing fantastic in many areas. Unfortunately for me, they are not in the areas that I need. Apple is not catering to the Pro market so Tim's words are complete crap to me. HP and Dell will be releasing their 3rd update soon. I can not afford to have my company die waiting for Apple. We badly require additional machines and have machines that need to be replaced It will be hell in high water before I buy their current joke of machine at the prices they are asking. I don't really care what your opinion is, bottom line is Apple will soon be loosing another long time Mac using company.
I'll repeat the question: what is your definition of "near future"?
The image was intended to illustrate that Apple don't seem to be in any sort of rush right now, so there might be a fair wait yet.
Even if you were making unsubstantiated claims that Tim Cook is making promises to you, you're current reasoning that "HP created a machine that had this and that" is not a reasonable argument that Apple should be copying everything HP is doing. Just because they bought HP's HQ doesn't mean they need to become HP.
I get it, you want something specific and you're not getting your exact needs met. You may even want 64 GiB of non-LPDDR RAM in a Mac notebook that uses a desktop CPU and brings back the HDD because you like the higher capacity for less money over the reliability, size and performance of an SSD. That's fine! You can "wish for" whatever you want, but when you start making claims that a CEO is LYING to you and then trying making silly claims that there are no road maps or products in the pipeline, you sound like a deranged child.
My suggestion to you—and with everyone else not happy with how a corporation chooses to conduct business legally—is to choose another company that best suits your needs. For example, I'd love to use this app with my Mac but Apple has removed SNMP support from their latest AEBS for reasons I can't begin to understand. That means I have to deal with the current AEBS or buy a router from a different vendor—but there is no crying on a fucking message board about how Tim Cook has forsaken you.
"Tim Cook to pro customers: We are not abandoning you."
Really, it's us, not you.But just in case, here are some of your clothes and your favorite binky, and a couple of sandwiches. Stay out of trouble until we get back.