Watch AppleInsider's Apple Pro discussion live

Comments

• Reply 1 of 14

  oakhammd Posts: 21member

  May 2, 2017 11:15AM

  Difficult to understand why the naysayers have been so quiet after watching this event. NOT.

  
• Reply 2 of 14

  blastdoor Posts: 3,305member

  May 2, 2017 3:30PM

  oakhammd said:

  Difficult to understand why the naysayers have been so quiet after watching this event. NOT.

  I don't have time to sit around watching videos, but let me guess -- AI found some pros who don't need anything more than what Apple is currently selling. Is that it? 
  
  If so, then big deal. I have never doubted that there the vast majority of pros needs are fully met by either a MBP or an iMac. And indeed, Apple said as much in their discussion with Gruber et al. 
  
  But there are some pros whose needs are absolutely NOT met by the current lineup. While the fanboys around here may stick their fingers in their ears and ignore those users, Apple apparently has decided to follow a different approach. Apple has decided to acknowledge that there are users who need a real Mac Pro, and Apple has decided that those are users they want to keep as customers. 
  
  I say, good for Apple for listening to these users!
  
  
• Reply 3 of 14

  christopher126 Posts: 4,366member

  May 2, 2017 4:32PM

  I was able to watch the last 40 minutes or so....very interesting. I liked the timeline graphic Victor used. That was a good statement (I'm paraphrasing) that Apple believes the future of computing is the iPad Pro. Maybe not today, but soon. I'm writing this on an iPad Mini 2 w/ a keyboard.
  
  I've been using it as my main work computer for over a month now. Yes, it's a bit small but I'm really getting to like iOS, specifically Pages. Granted most of the doc's/charts I use were created on my aging '09 MacBook Pro and are only being slightly modified on the iPad, but I'm really enjoying it. Notes, Dropbox, Mail are probably the other most used apps. And of course, Safari.
  
  Am really considering getting the iPad Pro w/ the Apple KB (~$750) instead of a new MacBook (~$1,300).
  
  Really enjoyed the talk. Thanks Victor and Dan.
  
  Best. 

  edited May 2017
• Reply 4 of 14

  zoetmb Posts: 2,654member

  May 2, 2017 5:08PM

  christopher126 said:

  I was able to watch the last 40 minutes or so....very interesting. I liked the timeline graphic Victor used. That was a good statement (I'm paraphrasing) that Apple believes the future of computing is the iPad Pro. Maybe not today, but soon. I'm writing this on an iPad Mini 2 w/ a keyboard.
  
  I've been using it as my main work computer for over a month now. Yes, it's a bit small but I'm really getting to like iOS, specifically Pages. Granted most of the doc's/charts I use were created on my aging '09 MacBook Pro and are only being slightly modified on the iPad, but I'm really enjoying it. Notes, Dropbox, Mail are probably the other most used apps. And of course, Safari.
  

  For serious/complex work, I have to disagree.   For the typical user who consumes media, posts short messages to social media apps, tweets, takes a few photos or videos, sure.   But for complex work using sophisticated apps, one needs a larger screen and a decent physical keyboard.   No one can tell me they can type as fast on an iPhone or iPad keyboard as they can on a physical keyboard (unless they don't know how to type in the first place).   In fact, when I go to my consulting gig and I'm working on specifications or documentation, one screen isn't even enough - I need to work on two screens, so I can easily capture screens and paste them into the documents I'm working on without having to shift windows around.   Same for people editing video.    Efficiency is the key to productivity.   I have a new MacBook Pro at home and I don't want to hog the table with a larger screen, but eventually I'm going to, especially if I find myself editing more video because it's inefficient trying to squeeze everything onto the 15" laptop screen. 
  
  One of the companies I consult for is in a WeWork shared working facility.   They're a tech company and except for the graphic design department are mostly PC based, but as I walk around the floor and look at all the startup companies there, I'd say they're about 80% Mac based and it's rare that I see anyone working on an iPad.    Obviously, that's anecdotal, but it confirms my view that for "real work", an iPad isn't going to cut it.     But if it works for some people, it works: different strokes for different folks.  That's why there are choices.   If Apple ever choose to abandon the traditional computer line (which seems unlikely since the new Mac Pro will probably be the model with the lowest unit sales and they're committing to it anyway), I'm gone as an Apple customer.   
• Reply 5 of 14

  tenthousandthings Posts: 1,037member

  May 2, 2017 5:32PM

  A lot of discussion of software, which tells you something about what "pro" users need and what they do. I liked the initial definition of a pro app, from Michael B. Johnson at Pixar: "A pro app is a collection of small capabilities that has been streamlined to accomplish larger tasks, but also reconfigurable by the user."
  
  I found the story about Adobe threatening Apple over Final Cut (versus Premiere) interesting. Made me wonder about who really killed Aperture.
  
  I'm in the same boat as Dan in hoping for continued progress toward brilliant iOS and macOS interaction. I would have liked to see someone ask him about the new file system and whether it is designed to help in that regard once it is the default in macOS.
  

  edited May 2017
• Reply 6 of 14

  ronn Posts: 658member

  May 2, 2017 5:32PM

  Thanks for the talk Victor, Dan and crew. It was informative, generated discussion and you both kept my friend Diane from snoozing, so major points! And even giveaways
  
  
• Reply 7 of 14

  christopher126 Posts: 4,366member

  May 2, 2017 5:40PM

  zoetmb said:

  christopher126 said:

  I was able to watch the last 40 minutes or so....very interesting. I liked the timeline graphic Victor used. That was a good statement (I'm paraphrasing) that Apple believes the future of computing is the iPad Pro. Maybe not today, but soon. I'm writing this on an iPad Mini 2 w/ a keyboard.
  
  I've been using it as my main work computer for over a month now. Yes, it's a bit small but I'm really getting to like iOS, specifically Pages. Granted most of the doc's/charts I use were created on my aging '09 MacBook Pro and are only being slightly modified on the iPad, but I'm really enjoying it. Notes, Dropbox, Mail are probably the other most used apps. And of course, Safari.
  

  For serious/complex work, I have to disagree.   For the typical user who consumes media, posts short messages to social media apps, tweets, takes a few photos or videos, sure.   But for complex work using sophisticated apps, one needs a larger screen and a decent physical keyboard.   No one can tell me they can type as fast on an iPhone or iPad keyboard as they can on a physical keyboard (unless they don't know how to type in the first place).   In fact, when I go to my consulting gig and I'm working on specifications or documentation, one screen isn't even enough - I need to work on two screens, so I can easily capture screens and paste them into the documents I'm working on without having to shift windows around.   Same for people editing video.    Efficiency is the key to productivity.   I have a new MacBook Pro at home and I don't want to hog the table with a larger screen, but eventually I'm going to, especially if I find myself editing more video because it's inefficient trying to squeeze everything onto the 15" laptop screen. 
  
  One of the companies I consult for is in a WeWork shared working facility.   They're a tech company and except for the graphic design department are mostly PC based, but as I walk around the floor and look at all the startup companies there, I'd say they're about 80% Mac based and it's rare that I see anyone working on an iPad.    Obviously, that's anecdotal, but it confirms my view that for "real work", an iPad isn't going to cut it.     But if it works for some people, it works: different strokes for different folks.  That's why there are choices.   If Apple ever choose to abandon the traditional computer line (which seems unlikely since the new Mac Pro will probably be the model with the lowest unit sales and they're committing to it anyway), I'm gone as an Apple customer.   

  I hear you, Z. I should have prefaced it by saying I'm not a power user, but you probably realized that from my post.
  
  Agreed, I was on my iMac at home last night and it was refreshing to be on a "huge" screen.
  
  I'm in a minimalist mode right now. Pairing down to an iPhone Se, iPad Mini 2, Apple Watch, Air pods and an Apple TV. Will be recycling my original intel iMac and '09 MBP.
  
  Best.
• Reply 8 of 14

  dtb200 Posts: 47member

  May 2, 2017 8:52PM

  christopher126 said:

  I was able to watch the last 40 minutes or so....very interesting. I liked the timeline graphic Victor used. That was a good statement (I'm paraphrasing) that Apple believes the future of computing is the iPad Pro. Maybe not today, but soon. I'm writing this on an iPad Mini 2 w/ a keyboard.
  
  I've been using it as my main work computer for over a month now. Yes, it's a bit small but I'm really getting to like iOS, specifically Pages. Granted most of the doc's/charts I use were created on my aging '09 MacBook Pro and are only being slightly modified on the iPad, but I'm really enjoying it. Notes, Dropbox, Mail are probably the other most used apps. And of course, Safari.
  
  Am really considering getting the iPad Pro w/ the Apple KB (~$750) instead of a new MacBook (~$1,300).
  
  Really enjoyed the talk. Thanks Victor and Dan.
  
  Best. 

  It's true that there are many features in iOS which are more efficient than MacOS equivalents (e.g. adding a photo to an email) and I too look forward to some unified OS if this were possible. 
  
  I tried to to work solely on iOS a few years ago. Granted it was only an iPad 2 but it was just too slow for my workflow, e.g. when switching between apps, cutting and pasting, referencing many docs at once. Maybe that's not an issue now with the iPad Pros? But yeah, every so often you just want a humungous screen..
• Reply 9 of 14

  christopher126 Posts: 4,366member

  May 2, 2017 11:42PM

  Just a little thing...I remember when the iPad was released and the one thing I noticed is it seemed to make web designers really "up their game" Instead of just putting out crappy websites that were meant primarily for I.E. 
  
  If I remember correctly, a lot of websites were incompatible w/ Safari. I had a few real estate services, MLS, Realtor.com, Zipforms, etc. They were atrocious on Windows and would not work on an Apple. Then along came the iPad and the revised websites for the iPad were a joy to use compared to the Windows websites. 
  
  For most of them I was running Tiger w/ Parallels (XP) emulation software. Parallels was great, XP was terrible.
  
  Anyway, like I said not a big deal now...but back then, the iPad sure made my life a lot easier. 
• Reply 10 of 14

  vmarks Posts: 762editor

  May 3, 2017 12:33AM

  blastdoor said:

  oakhammd said:

  Difficult to understand why the naysayers have been so quiet after watching this event. NOT.

  I don't have time to sit around watching videos, but let me guess -- AI found some pros who don't need anything more than what Apple is currently selling. Is that it? 
  
  If so, then big deal. I have never doubted that there the vast majority of pros needs are fully met by either a MBP or an iMac. And indeed, Apple said as much in their discussion with Gruber et al. 
  
  But there are some pros whose needs are absolutely NOT met by the current lineup. While the fanboys around here may stick their fingers in their ears and ignore those users, Apple apparently has decided to follow a different approach. Apple has decided to acknowledge that there are users who need a real Mac Pro, and Apple has decided that those are users they want to keep as customers. 
  
  I say, good for Apple for listening to these users!
  
  

  Guessing can be tricky. I wish you'd been there. We didn't know what kind of pros would attend, what their opinions were, or anything other than number. I was so focused on the creative professional and developers, I embarrassingly forgot about the IT professional. We had a few IT pros in the audience.
  
  We found precisely 1 person attending who said that they have moved away from editing with FCP X to making small edits on iPad and uploading to Youtube. It's hard to call that person a non-pro, since he's been editing and publishing video for his work for the last 30 years, he said.
  
  Every other person in attendance was upset by the loss of a proper tower Mac Pro or the xServe, and spoke about their needs for both hardware and software. Yes, I posited that the best way to tell Apple's future vision is by listening to them, and they've been very clear they think the future is in iPad. We're going to get a new Mac Pro and a Mac Mini - but on a long enough timeline, iPad is what they're thinking. So we ought to talk about what happens when the input method changes, and does that mean that it's impossible to accomplish the work or does it mean the workflow changes? After all, we've had big changes before, from 512x324, black and white, to 5k retina in color. We have to get away from "the world is ending" every time there's a change, and instead 
  
  
  

  edited May 2017
• Reply 11 of 14

  bestkeptsecret Posts: 4,265member

  May 3, 2017 5:27AM

  vmarks said:

  blastdoor said:

  oakhammd said:

  Difficult to understand why the naysayers have been so quiet after watching this event. NOT.

  I don't have time to sit around watching videos, but let me guess -- AI found some pros who don't need anything more than what Apple is currently selling. Is that it? 
  
  If so, then big deal. I have never doubted that there the vast majority of pros needs are fully met by either a MBP or an iMac. And indeed, Apple said as much in their discussion with Gruber et al. 
  
  But there are some pros whose needs are absolutely NOT met by the current lineup. While the fanboys around here may stick their fingers in their ears and ignore those users, Apple apparently has decided to follow a different approach. Apple has decided to acknowledge that there are users who need a real Mac Pro, and Apple has decided that those are users they want to keep as customers. 
  
  I say, good for Apple for listening to these users!
  
  

  Guessing can be tricky. I wish you'd been there. We didn't know what kind of pros would attend, what their opinions were, or anything other than number. I was so focused on the creative professional and developers, I embarrassingly forgot about the IT professional. We had a few IT pros in the audience.
  
  We found precisely 1 person attending who said that they have moved away from editing with FCP X to making small edits on iPad and uploading to Youtube. It's hard to call that person a non-pro, since he's been editing and publishing video for his work for the last 30 years, he said.
  
  Every other person in attendance was upset by the loss of a proper tower Mac Pro or the xServe, and spoke about their needs for both hardware and software. Yes, I posited that the best way to tell Apple's future vision is by listening to them, and they've been very clear they think the future is in iPad. We're going to get a new Mac Pro and a Mac Mini - but on a long enough timeline, iPad is what they're thinking. So we ought to talk about what happens when the input method changes, and does that mean that it's impossible to accomplish the work or does it mean the workflow changes? After all, we've had big changes before, from 512x324, black and white, to 5k retina in color. We have to get away from "the world is ending" every time there's a change, and instead 
  
  
  

  Well finish what you're saying Victor!!
  
• Reply 12 of 14

  vmarks Posts: 762editor

  May 3, 2017 9:38PM

  bestkeptsecret said:

  vmarks said:

  blastdoor said:

  oakhammd said:

  Difficult to understand why the naysayers have been so quiet after watching this event. NOT.

  I don't have time to sit around watching videos, but let me guess -- AI found some pros who don't need anything more than what Apple is currently selling. Is that it? 
  
  If so, then big deal. I have never doubted that there the vast majority of pros needs are fully met by either a MBP or an iMac. And indeed, Apple said as much in their discussion with Gruber et al. 
  
  But there are some pros whose needs are absolutely NOT met by the current lineup. While the fanboys around here may stick their fingers in their ears and ignore those users, Apple apparently has decided to follow a different approach. Apple has decided to acknowledge that there are users who need a real Mac Pro, and Apple has decided that those are users they want to keep as customers. 
  
  I say, good for Apple for listening to these users!
  
  

  Guessing can be tricky. I wish you'd been there. We didn't know what kind of pros would attend, what their opinions were, or anything other than number. I was so focused on the creative professional and developers, I embarrassingly forgot about the IT professional. We had a few IT pros in the audience.
  
  We found precisely 1 person attending who said that they have moved away from editing with FCP X to making small edits on iPad and uploading to Youtube. It's hard to call that person a non-pro, since he's been editing and publishing video for his work for the last 30 years, he said.
  
  Every other person in attendance was upset by the loss of a proper tower Mac Pro or the xServe, and spoke about their needs for both hardware and software. Yes, I posited that the best way to tell Apple's future vision is by listening to them, and they've been very clear they think the future is in iPad. We're going to get a new Mac Pro and a Mac Mini - but on a long enough timeline, iPad is what they're thinking. So we ought to talk about what happens when the input method changes, and does that mean that it's impossible to accomplish the work or does it mean the workflow changes? After all, we've had big changes before, from 512x324, black and white, to 5k retina in color. We have to get away from "the world is ending" every time there's a change, and instead 
  
  
  

  Well finish what you're saying Victor!!
  

  D'OH.
  
  Thank you! 
  
  And instead, look to what the new methods can allow us to do differently, and better.
  Yes, as a professional reliant on tools for work, you need to eliminate any variable that can lead to spending more time on a project, and change certainly does that - but without it, people would be cutting on a stand up Movie-ola. 
  
  My recommendation at this time is, keep an old machine around with backups, even backup hardware - bare drives, for example. If your work depends on it, you have to protect the tools you rely on. But for the future, expect the time to come where the software changes, and the hardware changes to the point that the input is touch-based. I expect that the input for consumer interactions will change to voice, more and more - things move from most friction to least friction, and interaction design is no different.
• Reply 13 of 14

  skippingrock Posts: 187member

  May 4, 2017 7:38AM

  christopher126 said:

  Just a little thing...I remember when the iPad was released and the one thing I noticed is it seemed to make web designers really "up their game" Instead of just putting out crappy websites that were meant primarily for I.E. 
  
  If I remember correctly, a lot of websites were incompatible w/ Safari. I had a few real estate services, MLS, Realtor.com, Zipforms, etc. They were atrocious on Windows and would not work on an Apple. Then along came the iPad and the revised websites for the iPad were a joy to use compared to the Windows websites. 
  
  For most of them I was running Tiger w/ Parallels (XP) emulation software. Parallels was great, XP was terrible.
  
  Anyway, like I said not a big deal now...but back then, the iPad sure made my life a lot easier. 

  It was worse in Korea. Everything there was so Windows centric about the web. It was impossible to buy or bank online because everything required this horrid ActiveX plugin that not only required windows but also required IE. Firefox basically didn't exist there. Anyway I found it very hard to use my MBP there without resorting to Boot Camp or something. But since iOS many of those barriers have now been legislated away and a better experience.
• Reply 14 of 14

  vmarks Posts: 762editor

  May 4, 2017 4:53PM

  zoetmb said:

  christopher126 said:

  I was able to watch the last 40 minutes or so....very interesting. I liked the timeline graphic Victor used. That was a good statement (I'm paraphrasing) that Apple believes the future of computing is the iPad Pro. Maybe not today, but soon. I'm writing this on an iPad Mini 2 w/ a keyboard.
  
  I've been using it as my main work computer for over a month now. Yes, it's a bit small but I'm really getting to like iOS, specifically Pages. Granted most of the doc's/charts I use were created on my aging '09 MacBook Pro and are only being slightly modified on the iPad, but I'm really enjoying it. Notes, Dropbox, Mail are probably the other most used apps. And of course, Safari.
  

  For serious/complex work, I have to disagree.   For the typical user who consumes media, posts short messages to social media apps, tweets, takes a few photos or videos, sure.   But for complex work using sophisticated apps, one needs a larger screen and a decent physical keyboard.   No one can tell me they can type as fast on an iPhone or iPad keyboard as they can on a physical keyboard (unless they don't know how to type in the first place).   In fact, when I go to my consulting gig and I'm working on specifications or documentation, one screen isn't even enough - I need to work on two screens, so I can easily capture screens and paste them into the documents I'm working on without having to shift windows around.   Same for people editing video.    Efficiency is the key to productivity.   I have a new MacBook Pro at home and I don't want to hog the table with a larger screen, but eventually I'm going to, especially if I find myself editing more video because it's inefficient trying to squeeze everything onto the 15" laptop screen. 
  
  One of the companies I consult for is in a WeWork shared working facility.   They're a tech company and except for the graphic design department are mostly PC based, but as I walk around the floor and look at all the startup companies there, I'd say they're about 80% Mac based and it's rare that I see anyone working on an iPad.    Obviously, that's anecdotal, but it confirms my view that for "real work", an iPad isn't going to cut it.     But if it works for some people, it works: different strokes for different folks.  That's why there are choices.   If Apple ever choose to abandon the traditional computer line (which seems unlikely since the new Mac Pro will probably be the model with the lowest unit sales and they're committing to it anyway), I'm gone as an Apple customer.   

  It wasn't so long ago that the Mac / PC wars included statements like, "for "real work", a Mac isn't going to cut it." We're in the middle of a transition.