So Apple admitting price matters in certain markets?
Actually, It just means the margins the rest of the world is paying to Apple will subsidize the sales to people in India. The same thing happens in pharmaceuticals, drugs which we pay a $1 a pill here in US sells for $0.10 in India, the pill still costs $0.50 to make but the margins they make off US sales helps support sales in other countries like India. It was the same deal India did with the climate, they can continue putting carbon in the air while the US is reducing and the US pays them $3B every year to move away form Carbon producing solutions.
Its more like the pill cost $0.05 to make and they are sold for $1 in the US, because our government allows them to, while other governments, like Canada, don't allow this nonsense. No company is going to take a loss to sell something.
Actually in Canada and the EU they control the price, similar to what the US does on Milk and a few other items they fix the price since it a requirement to live. Power is also control price product in the US. US Phama company can sell their products elsewhere at much lower cost since the we in the US pay a much higher cost. You are right my example was extreme they are loosing money, but they are also not making a profit on those sales either in coutries like India.
@Maestro64 - You are such a troll. US is the 2nd largest polluter in the world, so no, India is not being allowed to pollute while US reduces carbon emissions. The entire world needs to reduce its carbon footprint and with US being the 2nd largest, it also needs to do the same.
Reducing the price of iPhone and selling it in a country where people can't afford to buy them at their current price is smart. It doesn't devalue the brand. You are quite ignorant to say things like "Why doesn't India figure out ways for people can make more money". If India did that, then the goods you buy in US, like clothes that are made in India, will cost higher. Are you willing to pay 2x or 10x the price you pay for your clothes just so someone else in another country can buy their iPhones? I bet most of the Americans would not want that!
China pollutes at twice the amount of the US.
and India is the 3rd in the list, so US has been reducing its emission since the 1950/1960's through various means and no country offer to give the US money to do it. My point is the US is not here to subsidize everyone's else economies.
Please post a (credible) link showing US subsidies for India's emissions reduction efforts?
@Maestro64 - You are such a troll. US is the 2nd largest polluter in the world, so no, India is not being allowed to pollute while US reduces carbon emissions. The entire world needs to reduce its carbon footprint and with US being the 2nd largest, it also needs to do the same.
Reducing the price of iPhone and selling it in a country where people can't afford to buy them at their current price is smart. It doesn't devalue the brand. You are quite ignorant to say things like "Why doesn't India figure out ways for people can make more money". If India did that, then the goods you buy in US, like clothes that are made in India, will cost higher. Are you willing to pay 2x or 10x the price you pay for your clothes just so someone else in another country can buy their iPhones? I bet most of the Americans would not want that!
Troll, that is a good one.. I have just been here for years I guess I am the longest running troll here.
But you missed my point. I was not talking about clothing, no country is going to pull their people out of poverty by making clothes. Indian has been trying to education it people which is good, China did the same thing, China also taught their people high level skills which were marketable. But China's middle class has no problem buy the Iphone, Why? The problem with India they did not turn into the next grass huts country with cheap labor to make stuff. they took high paying tech jobs and make them into cheap labor jobs. Their solution, was not to pull up their people into high paying Tech jobs but instead they pay them all less and just put more to work. Instead of having one highly skill IP professional making $80K to $120K they put to work 4 or 5 low skill tech people to work making $20K, all they did was devalued what IT job is worth, They doing the same thing in engineering and other fields like Supply Chain. India solve problem not with Talent but throwing more people at the problem.
Please take a Marketing Class, at a top business school and the first things they will teach you is the price is always the price you never drop or discount your price if you do, it does in fact devalue the brand. Why do you think Apple has never lower the cost of the phone except the very first time. For Apple most times the price goes up with a new phone come out not down. Consumer get conditions on price and if they know Apple will drop the price in 3 or 6 months they will just wait since that is now the new price.
Cue the anti-India bigots, per usual. (I am guessing some of you guys are still sore over your low- and mid-level tech jobs being outsourced to India).
As a developer and manager that's spent nearly two decades working with Indian outsourcing software shops, I'm only sore at the extremely poor quality of code we get back. It was so counter-productive that finally one of my employers, Target Corp, brought the skill back in-house. It took some time, but the higher ups seem to finally be realizing that labor cost isn't everything and the product matters.
@Maestro64 - You are such a troll. US is the 2nd largest polluter in the world, so no, India is not being allowed to pollute while US reduces carbon emissions. The entire world needs to reduce its carbon footprint and with US being the 2nd largest, it also needs to do the same.
Reducing the price of iPhone and selling it in a country where people can't afford to buy them at their current price is smart. It doesn't devalue the brand. You are quite ignorant to say things like "Why doesn't India figure out ways for people can make more money". If India did that, then the goods you buy in US, like clothes that are made in India, will cost higher. Are you willing to pay 2x or 10x the price you pay for your clothes just so someone else in another country can buy their iPhones? I bet most of the Americans would not want that!
China pollutes at twice the amount of the US.
and India is the 3rd in the list, so US has been reducing its emission since the 1950/1960's through various means and no country offer to give the US money to do it. My point is the US is not here to subsidize everyone's else economies.
Please post a (credible) link showing US subsidies for India's emissions reduction efforts?
You know you could have search the internet yourself and found this, I do not have to do all your work. Not that I trust most of the news organization these day, but this was one of the things that the US had to agree on, to get India to sign on. The US is required to give $3B each year which will be funnel to the worse carbon offenders which India is one of them along with China.
I hope the US puts this in place since it will force countries like India to stop polluting or they risk their ecomony going in the hole which it will if US taxes all the products coming out of India which will include IT support. The US will carbon tax Indian products and service and give the tax money to the American poor, I like how this plans works.
Cue the anti-India bigots, per usual. (I am guessing some of you guys are still sore over your low- and mid-level tech jobs being outsourced to India).
As a developer and manager that's spent nearly two decades working with Indian outsourcing software shops, I'm only sore at the extremely poor quality of code we get back. It was so counter-productive that finally one of my employers, Target Corp, brought the skill back in-house. It took some time, but the higher ups seem to finally be realizing that labor cost isn't everything and the product matters.
Oh the stories I can tell you, my previous company has been outsourcing its IT systems support to India for 15 yrs and the issues we dealt with. I can not tell how many bad decisions we made because the data was bad because the IT teams in India fail to just test their changes. I asked them did they have known good data they run through analysis tools and verified the output against a known set of good outputs. Like put a 1 and get a 1 not a 2 out when it should have been a 1. There was times we would send over spreadsheet with all the equations and raw data and actually outputs we wanted to see and they never bother to check to see if the systems changes they made reproduced the correct results, they ran test and got outputs but could not tell if the outputs were correct. It was not until the company almost lost millions since the systems was providing wrong information they decided to being most of it back in house.
Here is a great article which was written by an India for our India friend who thinks we all bigots. This talk about how the H1B visa and the activities in India destroyed the IT industry in the US. My wife works in the Tech Recruiting industry and has since 1991 and has seen what has happen first hand. She will tell you it is fill with less then qualified Indian IT professionals making a faction of what people use to make just 10 yrs ago. It has gotten so bad that if you want to work for any of the Big companies doing any sort of IT work they do any these in person tests to prove you know what you are talking about. Google does them via video and makes candidate log into Google system and the monitory everything you are doing on your computer to make sure you not searching the web for answers and you not sending text messages to other people, they even try to determine if other people are in the room feeding answers. The companies she works with have to do all kinds of screening to weed out the worse of the worse and those people still find jobs.
Cue the anti-India bigots, per usual. (I am guessing some of you guys are still sore over your low- and mid-level tech jobs being outsourced to India).
A new iPhone 5 in India is "slashed" to $200? In 2017? Oh, the horror...
ROTFLMAO. Guess what Walmart was selling new ones for in the US, in 2014?
Really, do you think Apple cut the price or was Walmart subsidizing the sale. You know Walmat got kick backs from the carries to add user onto the networks. Notice Apple never did this at their stores, nor did they ever offer BOGO sales, the carries do this all the time with other phones to move subscriber to their service. AT&T would give you a iphone for $49 or $99 or $199 with a two year agreement and most time the end user would pay $50 to $100 more for the phone since their monthly fees were higher than if they just paid outright for the phone. My family and I never took the free phone or cheep phone since we paid the full price and paid less per month. It just another example of the poor staying poor because they pay more than those who know the game or have money. All because they want what others have or unable to save.
Cue the anti-India bigots, per usual. (I am guessing some of you guys are still sore over your low- and mid-level tech jobs being outsourced to India).
A new iPhone 5 in India is "slashed" to $200? In 2017? Oh, the horror...
ROTFLMAO. Guess what Walmart was selling new ones for in the US, in 2014?
Really, do you think Apple cut the price or was Walmart subsidizing the sale. You know Walmat got kick backs from the carries to add user onto the networks. Notice Apple never did this at their stores, nor did they ever offer BOGO sales, the carries do this all the time with other phones to move subscriber to their service. AT&T would give you a iphone for $49 or $99 or $199 with a two year agreement and most time the end user would pay $50 to $100 more for the phone since their monthly fees were higher than if they just paid outright for the phone. My family and I never took the free phone or cheep phone since we paid the full price and paid less per month. It just another example of the poor staying poor because they pay more than those who know the game or have money. All because they want what others have or unable to save.
Back on topic - at the same time, they were giving $100 in Walmart gift cards if you signed up for two years and chose the iPhone 4s.
@Maestro64 - You are such a troll. US is the 2nd largest polluter in the world, so no, India is not being allowed to pollute while US reduces carbon emissions. The entire world needs to reduce its carbon footprint and with US being the 2nd largest, it also needs to do the same.
Reducing the price of iPhone and selling it in a country where people can't afford to buy them at their current price is smart. It doesn't devalue the brand. You are quite ignorant to say things like "Why doesn't India figure out ways for people can make more money". If India did that, then the goods you buy in US, like clothes that are made in India, will cost higher. Are you willing to pay 2x or 10x the price you pay for your clothes just so someone else in another country can buy their iPhones? I bet most of the Americans would not want that!
Troll, that is a good one.. I have just been here for years I guess I am the longest running troll here.
But you missed my point. I was not talking about clothing, no country is going to pull their people out of poverty by making clothes. Indian has been trying to education it people which is good, China did the same thing, China also taught their people high level skills which were marketable. But China's middle class has no problem buy the Iphone, Why? The problem with India they did not turn into the next grass huts country with cheap labor to make stuff. they took high paying tech jobs and make them into cheap labor jobs. Their solution, was not to pull up their people into high paying Tech jobs but instead they pay them all less and just put more to work. Instead of having one highly skill IP professional making $80K to $120K they put to work 4 or 5 low skill tech people to work making $20K, all they did was devalued what IT job is worth, They doing the same thing in engineering and other fields like Supply Chain. India solve problem not with Talent but throwing more people at the problem.
Please take a Marketing Class, at a top business school and the first things they will teach you is the price is always the price you never drop or discount your price if you do, it does in fact devalue the brand. Why do you think Apple has never lower the cost of the phone except the very first time. For Apple most times the price goes up with a new phone come out not down. Consumer get conditions on price and if they know Apple will drop the price in 3 or 6 months they will just wait since that is now the new price.
I think you missed my point. If Indian companies start paying more, so people can afford their iPhones, then the products, like clothes, and services you get from India will also go up. Hence, the point about 2x or 10x the price you would pay for clothes. I agree about the low skill tech people, but you have to realize that upper management of companies in US are stupid enough to pay $20/hour for 4 people from India instead of paying $80/hour for 1 person from India. Indian Tech industry is catering to all prices and I have worked with people from Indian companies that charge $70/hour and they are actually really smart. People that you get for $20/hour are, as you would expect, pretty useless. You get what you pay for!
As far as marketing class, firstly, Apple prices don't go up with each new release of their phone. It has remained the same for the past 7 yrs now. Secondly, selling a 5 year old product at 50% discount isn't devaluing the brand, it is helping with adoption of their products so they can sell services like iTunes, etc. which again helps them make money.
@Maestro64 - You are such a troll. US is the 2nd largest polluter in the world, so no, India is not being allowed to pollute while US reduces carbon emissions. The entire world needs to reduce its carbon footprint and with US being the 2nd largest, it also needs to do the same.
Reducing the price of iPhone and selling it in a country where people can't afford to buy them at their current price is smart. It doesn't devalue the brand. You are quite ignorant to say things like "Why doesn't India figure out ways for people can make more money". If India did that, then the goods you buy in US, like clothes that are made in India, will cost higher. Are you willing to pay 2x or 10x the price you pay for your clothes just so someone else in another country can buy their iPhones? I bet most of the Americans would not want that!
China pollutes at twice the amount of the US.
and India is the 3rd in the list, so US has been reducing its emission since the 1950/1960's through various means and no country offer to give the US money to do it. My point is the US is not here to subsidize everyone's else economies.
Please post a (credible) link showing US subsidies for India's emissions reduction efforts?
You know you could have search the internet yourself and found this, I do not have to do all your work. Not that I trust most of the news organization these day, but this was one of the things that the US had to agree on, to get India to sign on. The US is required to give $3B each year which will be funnel to the worse carbon offenders which India is one of them along with China.
I hope the US puts this in place since it will force countries like India to stop polluting or they risk their ecomony going in the hole which it will if US taxes all the products coming out of India which will include IT support. The US will carbon tax Indian products and service and give the tax money to the American poor, I like how this plans works.
Please don't just do a random search, post a link, and pretend you've done research. Please spend some time actually trying to learn about the issue. The original plan, proposed by Hillary Clinton, was to create the $100B climate fund where the US would contribute $10B by 2020. Obama changed it to $3B. The actual amount budgeted in his last year was $1B. And recently, Trump has said he would withdraw that, under his exiting the Paris Agreement.
To put into perspective, that $1B is 1/4000ths of the US federal budget, or 0.025%. Hardly a huge subsidy. We spend three times as much on just the Defense piece of the budget every single day.
That aside, your ignorance on the topic of carbon pollution's stunning. Yes, India is the 3rd largest emitter, but it accounts for only 7-8% of the current global emissions, compared to 15-20% for the US, and 25-30% for China. On a per capita basis (I could be off by a little bit since I am trying to recall these off the top of my head, but I am glad to give you references and data cites to precise numbers if interested, it's just that I am pressed for time right now), Indians emit about 2 metric tonnes per person, compared to 8 tonnes or so for the average Chinese person, and 18 tonnes or so for the average American. India has shot way past its originally agreed-to goals under the Paris Agreement. China will have a cap and trade system before the end of 2017 in all likelihood, but most certainly before the end of 2018. India has started an internal experiment to trade carbon efficiency credits. India will have 175 GW of solar and wind capacity in place by 2022 (its original goal was 50GW by 2030), and China substantially more. India has mothballed many coal plants, and all new coal construction has come to a complete stop. China has slowed down its coal investments tremendously. India has a set a goal to allow only electric cars to be sold in the country by 2030. I could go on and on.
You might also be interested to know that the cumulative carbon emissions of the US since the late 1800s -- CO2 whose presence in the earth's atmosphere is still contributing to warming, and hence whose correct measure is the contribution to the level of GHGs, not its flow or flux -- is nearly as high as the cumulative emissions of rest of world combined during this period!
The US sounds like a third-rate, third-world country, by comparison, with its talk of reviving coal. Most of the rest of the world is simply moving on.
Funny and somewhat ironic that you should bring up the prospect of a tax on the carbon content of imports: you'd better not hope that happens, since the US may be the first country to get hit with such a tax, especially as it has now announced its intention to exit a major international agreement -- which, btw, is subsumed under a treaty that the US is signatory to, and the Senate voted 100-0 -- and hence blandly renege on a promise to abide by international law. (Although, most Trumpsters don't realize that actual exit won't even happen for another three and half years, if at all, but that's another matter).
And, a carbon tax in the US under the Trump (or a Republican administration)? Don't make me laugh...
Cue the anti-India bigots, per usual. (I am guessing some of you guys are still sore over your low- and mid-level tech jobs being outsourced to India).
As a developer and manager that's spent nearly two decades working with Indian outsourcing software shops, I'm only sore at the extremely poor quality of code we get back. It was so counter-productive that finally one of my employers, Target Corp, brought the skill back in-house. It took some time, but the higher ups seem to finally be realizing that labor cost isn't everything and the product matters.
Oh the stories I can tell you, my previous company has been outsourcing its IT systems support to India for 15 yrs and the issues we dealt with. I can not tell how many bad decisions we made because the data was bad because the IT teams in India fail to just test their changes. I asked them did they have known good data they run through analysis tools and verified the output against a known set of good outputs. Like put a 1 and get a 1 not a 2 out when it should have been a 1. There was times we would send over spreadsheet with all the equations and raw data and actually outputs we wanted to see and they never bother to check to see if the systems changes they made reproduced the correct results, they ran test and got outputs but could not tell if the outputs were correct. It was not until the company almost lost millions since the systems was providing wrong information they decided to being most of it back in house.
Here is a great article which was written by an India for our India friend who thinks we all bigots. This talk about how the H1B visa and the activities in India destroyed the IT industry in the US. My wife works in the Tech Recruiting industry and has since 1991 and has seen what has happen first hand. She will tell you it is fill with less then qualified Indian IT professionals making a faction of what people use to make just 10 yrs ago. It has gotten so bad that if you want to work for any of the Big companies doing any sort of IT work they do any these in person tests to prove you know what you are talking about. Google does them via video and makes candidate log into Google system and the monitory everything you are doing on your computer to make sure you not searching the web for answers and you not sending text messages to other people, they even try to determine if other people are in the room feeding answers. The companies she works with have to do all kinds of screening to weed out the worse of the worse and those people still find jobs.
You pull out a bunch of anecdotes and stories, and that is tantamount to broad evidence on the Indian IT industry that we should accept? I could give you dozens of anecdotes and stories of companies that I am personally familiar with, e.g., Goldman Sachs, GE, Citi, Cisco, Microsoft, Google, where managers have told me time and again that the quality of IT services provided by the leading Indian companies exceeds that which you could find in the US. And for a lower price.
It's your anecdote against mine, and mine's as good as yours. Where does that leave us?
@Strangedays brings up the example of Target, which is only slightly better than Walmart in the price and quality of the products it sells. It's quite possible that, in their typical style of squeezing suppliers to get cheap stuff at the least expensive price, they went with less-than-high quality outsourcing firms in countries like India.
Since you brought it up, let me ask: which company does your wife work for that she has to "...to do all kinds of screening to weed out the worse of the worse and those people still find jobs"? My guess is it must be some place that is not willing -- or has clients who are not willing -- to pay for higher-quality services.
@Maestro64 - You are such a troll. US is the 2nd largest polluter in the world, so no, India is not being allowed to pollute while US reduces carbon emissions. The entire world needs to reduce its carbon footprint and with US being the 2nd largest, it also needs to do the same.
Reducing the price of iPhone and selling it in a country where people can't afford to buy them at their current price is smart. It doesn't devalue the brand. You are quite ignorant to say things like "Why doesn't India figure out ways for people can make more money". If India did that, then the goods you buy in US, like clothes that are made in India, will cost higher. Are you willing to pay 2x or 10x the price you pay for your clothes just so someone else in another country can buy their iPhones? I bet most of the Americans would not want that!
China pollutes at twice the amount of the US.
Your point being?
China isn't the one that is backing away from efforts to reduce its carbon footprint, US is. Countries like China and India are actually on track to exceed their goals that were set out in the Paris agreement.
The Paris Agreement was a toothless document. If the US was to seriously commit to such an agreement it would have to originate in Congress. The President doesn't create US laws. The whole thing was a poser-fest.
And so whats the point of backing out of a voluntary ("poser") agreement? - That is something the President did, not Congress.
Right. It was entirely cosmetic. Why enter into such a non-binding, pointless agreement to begin with?
@Maestro64 - You are such a troll. US is the 2nd largest polluter in the world, so no, India is not being allowed to pollute while US reduces carbon emissions. The entire world needs to reduce its carbon footprint and with US being the 2nd largest, it also needs to do the same.
Reducing the price of iPhone and selling it in a country where people can't afford to buy them at their current price is smart. It doesn't devalue the brand. You are quite ignorant to say things like "Why doesn't India figure out ways for people can make more money". If India did that, then the goods you buy in US, like clothes that are made in India, will cost higher. Are you willing to pay 2x or 10x the price you pay for your clothes just so someone else in another country can buy their iPhones? I bet most of the Americans would not want that!
China pollutes at twice the amount of the US.
Your point being?
China isn't the one that is backing away from efforts to reduce its carbon footprint, US is. Countries like China and India are actually on track to exceed their goals that were set out in the Paris agreement.
The Paris Agreement was a toothless document. If the US was to seriously commit to such an agreement it would have to originate in Congress. The President doesn't create US laws. The whole thing was a poser-fest.
And so whats the point of backing out of a voluntary ("poser") agreement? - That is something the President did, not Congress.
Right. It was entirely cosmetic. Why enter into such a non-binding, pointless agreement to begin with?
If it's entirely cosmetic, what's the benefit of leaving?
So Apple admitting price matters in certain markets?
The same thing happens in pharmaceuticals, drugs which we pay a $1 a pill here in US sells for $0.10 in India, the pill still costs $0.50 to make but the margins they make off US sales helps support sales in other countries like India.
You might want to educate yourself a bit more before making such sweeping statements that have no basis in facts. The reason drugs cost less in India is that a bunch of Indian pharma companies make generic versions of brand name drugs after R&D. Here's a link that's relevant, though a bit dated: http://www.ipsnews.net/2012/09/will-india-still-supply-cheap-drugs-to-the-world/
That same link will tell you that the WTO and TRIPS agreements now make it next to impossible for Indian companies to continue making those cheap generics.
How do you think those Generic were made who taught them how to do it. What happened in Pham is happening to Apple being required to manufacture in India and source 30% of the parts in India is exactly what happen to US Phama companies 20 years ago. The US company were forced to set up shop in India transfer the knowledge how to make the them and sell them well below the cost to make them for years to gain some sort of foot hold in the country. I have friends in the Phama industry and spend years going back and forth to India getting this set up. This is what will happen to Apple, they will transfer all the knowledge and then get ripped off. At least in china the people there want to buy US design or made products. In India they are not out buy US branded products.
Also, No drug made in India will be allow to be sold in the US. The FDA will not allow it since it can not control the production of the drug, as no drug made in the US will be sold in India due to the their requirement for local content. Check on Tylenol, J&J who now owns the production of Tylenol is monitored by the FDA due to the quality issue they had some years back. Do you want to buy drugs from a country like India which does not have same level of controls the US has.
Cue the anti-India bigots, per usual. (I am guessing some of you guys are still sore over your low- and mid-level tech jobs being outsourced to India).
As a developer and manager that's spent nearly two decades working with Indian outsourcing software shops, I'm only sore at the extremely poor quality of code we get back. It was so counter-productive that finally one of my employers, Target Corp, brought the skill back in-house. It took some time, but the higher ups seem to finally be realizing that labor cost isn't everything and the product matters.
In an enterprise system, support costs of code typically far exceed its developmental costs. And, if you cut corners on development, those support costs can sky rocket. ... Outsourcing code development to India shows a lack of understanding of sound IT principles.
Wasn't Target one of the ones whose POS devices were hacked -- but continues to refuse to institute ApplePay?
Cue the anti-India bigots, per usual. (I am guessing some of you guys are still sore over your low- and mid-level tech jobs being outsourced to India).
As a developer and manager that's spent nearly two decades working with Indian outsourcing software shops, I'm only sore at the extremely poor quality of code we get back. It was so counter-productive that finally one of my employers, Target Corp, brought the skill back in-house. It took some time, but the higher ups seem to finally be realizing that labor cost isn't everything and the product matters.
In an enterprise system, support costs of code typically far exceed its developmental costs. And, if you cut corners on development, those support costs can sky rocket. ... Outsourcing code development to India shows a lack of understanding of sound IT principles.
Wasn't Target one of the ones whose POS devices were hacked -- but continues to refuse to institute ApplePay?
Comments
Actually in Canada and the EU they control the price, similar to what the US does on Milk and a few other items they fix the price since it a requirement to live. Power is also control price product in the US. US Phama company can sell their products elsewhere at much lower cost since the we in the US pay a much higher cost. You are right my example was extreme they are loosing money, but they are also not making a profit on those sales either in coutries like India.
Troll, that is a good one.. I have just been here for years I guess I am the longest running troll here.
But you missed my point. I was not talking about clothing, no country is going to pull their people out of poverty by making clothes. Indian has been trying to education it people which is good, China did the same thing, China also taught their people high level skills which were marketable. But China's middle class has no problem buy the Iphone, Why? The problem with India they did not turn into the next grass huts country with cheap labor to make stuff. they took high paying tech jobs and make them into cheap labor jobs. Their solution, was not to pull up their people into high paying Tech jobs but instead they pay them all less and just put more to work. Instead of having one highly skill IP professional making $80K to $120K they put to work 4 or 5 low skill tech people to work making $20K, all they did was devalued what IT job is worth, They doing the same thing in engineering and other fields like Supply Chain. India solve problem not with Talent but throwing more people at the problem.
Please take a Marketing Class, at a top business school and the first things they will teach you is the price is always the price you never drop or discount your price if you do, it does in fact devalue the brand. Why do you think Apple has never lower the cost of the phone except the very first time. For Apple most times the price goes up with a new phone come out not down. Consumer get conditions on price and if they know Apple will drop the price in 3 or 6 months they will just wait since that is now the new price.
Why don't you answer the question in post #22 to back up your assertion, and show the OP that you're not trolling (at least on this issues)?
As a developer and manager that's spent nearly two decades working with Indian outsourcing software shops, I'm only sore at the extremely poor quality of code we get back. It was so counter-productive that finally one of my employers, Target Corp, brought the skill back in-house. It took some time, but the higher ups seem to finally be realizing that labor cost isn't everything and the product matters.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/obama-3b-un-climate-fund-smart-investment-us-make#.WT7sypAnqvY.link
You know you could have search the internet yourself and found this, I do not have to do all your work. Not that I trust most of the news organization these day, but this was one of the things that the US had to agree on, to get India to sign on. The US is required to give $3B each year which will be funnel to the worse carbon offenders which India is one of them along with China.
I hope the US puts this in place since it will force countries like India to stop polluting or they risk their ecomony going in the hole which it will if US taxes all the products coming out of India which will include IT support. The US will carbon tax Indian products and service and give the tax money to the American poor, I like how this plans works.
https://www.ted.com/talks/ted_halstead_a_climate_solution_where_all_sides_can_win
Oh the stories I can tell you, my previous company has been outsourcing its IT systems support to India for 15 yrs and the issues we dealt with. I can not tell how many bad decisions we made because the data was bad because the IT teams in India fail to just test their changes. I asked them did they have known good data they run through analysis tools and verified the output against a known set of good outputs. Like put a 1 and get a 1 not a 2 out when it should have been a 1. There was times we would send over spreadsheet with all the equations and raw data and actually outputs we wanted to see and they never bother to check to see if the systems changes they made reproduced the correct results, they ran test and got outputs but could not tell if the outputs were correct. It was not until the company almost lost millions since the systems was providing wrong information they decided to being most of it back in house.
Here is a great article which was written by an India for our India friend who thinks we all bigots. This talk about how the H1B visa and the activities in India destroyed the IT industry in the US. My wife works in the Tech Recruiting industry and has since 1991 and has seen what has happen first hand. She will tell you it is fill with less then qualified Indian IT professionals making a faction of what people use to make just 10 yrs ago. It has gotten so bad that if you want to work for any of the Big companies doing any sort of IT work they do any these in person tests to prove you know what you are talking about. Google does them via video and makes candidate log into Google system and the monitory everything you are doing on your computer to make sure you not searching the web for answers and you not sending text messages to other people, they even try to determine if other people are in the room feeding answers. The companies she works with have to do all kinds of screening to weed out the worse of the worse and those people still find jobs.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/04/us/understanding-the-h-1b-visa/index.html
Really, do you think Apple cut the price or was Walmart subsidizing the sale. You know Walmat got kick backs from the carries to add user onto the networks. Notice Apple never did this at their stores, nor did they ever offer BOGO sales, the carries do this all the time with other phones to move subscriber to their service. AT&T would give you a iphone for $49 or $99 or $199 with a two year agreement and most time the end user would pay $50 to $100 more for the phone since their monthly fees were higher than if they just paid outright for the phone. My family and I never took the free phone or cheep phone since we paid the full price and paid less per month. It just another example of the poor staying poor because they pay more than those who know the game or have money. All because they want what others have or unable to save.
As far as marketing class, firstly, Apple prices don't go up with each new release of their phone. It has remained the same for the past 7 yrs now. Secondly, selling a 5 year old product at 50% discount isn't devaluing the brand, it is helping with adoption of their products so they can sell services like iTunes, etc. which again helps them make money.
To put into perspective, that $1B is 1/4000ths of the US federal budget, or 0.025%. Hardly a huge subsidy. We spend three times as much on just the Defense piece of the budget every single day.
That aside, your ignorance on the topic of carbon pollution's stunning. Yes, India is the 3rd largest emitter, but it accounts for only 7-8% of the current global emissions, compared to 15-20% for the US, and 25-30% for China. On a per capita basis (I could be off by a little bit since I am trying to recall these off the top of my head, but I am glad to give you references and data cites to precise numbers if interested, it's just that I am pressed for time right now), Indians emit about 2 metric tonnes per person, compared to 8 tonnes or so for the average Chinese person, and 18 tonnes or so for the average American. India has shot way past its originally agreed-to goals under the Paris Agreement. China will have a cap and trade system before the end of 2017 in all likelihood, but most certainly before the end of 2018. India has started an internal experiment to trade carbon efficiency credits. India will have 175 GW of solar and wind capacity in place by 2022 (its original goal was 50GW by 2030), and China substantially more. India has mothballed many coal plants, and all new coal construction has come to a complete stop. China has slowed down its coal investments tremendously. India has a set a goal to allow only electric cars to be sold in the country by 2030. I could go on and on.
You might also be interested to know that the cumulative carbon emissions of the US since the late 1800s -- CO2 whose presence in the earth's atmosphere is still contributing to warming, and hence whose correct measure is the contribution to the level of GHGs, not its flow or flux -- is nearly as high as the cumulative emissions of rest of world combined during this period!
The US sounds like a third-rate, third-world country, by comparison, with its talk of reviving coal. Most of the rest of the world is simply moving on.
Funny and somewhat ironic that you should bring up the prospect of a tax on the carbon content of imports: you'd better not hope that happens, since the US may be the first country to get hit with such a tax, especially as it has now announced its intention to exit a major international agreement -- which, btw, is subsumed under a treaty that the US is signatory to, and the Senate voted 100-0 -- and hence blandly renege on a promise to abide by international law. (Although, most Trumpsters don't realize that actual exit won't even happen for another three and half years, if at all, but that's another matter).
And, a carbon tax in the US under the Trump (or a Republican administration)? Don't make me laugh...
You pull out a bunch of anecdotes and stories, and that is tantamount to broad evidence on the Indian IT industry that we should accept? I could give you dozens of anecdotes and stories of companies that I am personally familiar with, e.g., Goldman Sachs, GE, Citi, Cisco, Microsoft, Google, where managers have told me time and again that the quality of IT services provided by the leading Indian companies exceeds that which you could find in the US. And for a lower price.
It's your anecdote against mine, and mine's as good as yours. Where does that leave us?
@Strangedays brings up the example of Target, which is only slightly better than Walmart in the price and quality of the products it sells. It's quite possible that, in their typical style of squeezing suppliers to get cheap stuff at the least expensive price, they went with less-than-high quality outsourcing firms in countries like India.
Since you brought it up, let me ask: which company does your wife work for that she has to "...to do all kinds of screening to weed out the worse of the worse and those people still find jobs"? My guess is it must be some place that is not willing -- or has clients who are not willing -- to pay for higher-quality services.
... Outsourcing code development to India shows a lack of understanding of sound IT principles.
Wasn't Target one of the ones whose POS devices were hacked -- but continues to refuse to institute ApplePay?