I finally gave up MS Windows in 2013 due to all the problems over the years. My life with Apple has been much improved. Looks like there is still the same problems with MS. Why is anyone surprised, it's the same as it ever was.
I've had two Surface Pros. An SP2 and an SP4. The backlight went out on the SP2 after less than a year and it was replaced under warranty. The SP4 has been flawless.
I've got a feeling a lot of the issues consumers are reporting relate to the sleep problems that plagued the SP3 and SP4 models for quite a while. A lot of the problem is Microsoft has to design its OS to run on tens of thousands of different hardware combinations by multiple manufacturers with new CPUs, motherboards, and video cards released every month. Even though they do control the hardware in the surface the underlying OS still has to be able to run on an almost unlimited combination of other components.
Apple has comparatively minuscule variations in hardware, revises its devices at a glacial pace, provides extremely limited opportunity for the user to upgrade after purchase, and is in complete control of the system from top to bottom. Apple can identify and eliminate potential issues much easier than Microsoft.
Having said that though, I would still recommend a Surface for anyone looking for a Windows based device.
Interesting perspective in noting that although Microsoft controls both the hardware and the software on the Surface products they must still bear the effects of suboptimal impedance mismatches in system integration because it's designed to run on countless other brands of PCs. I suppose Microsoft could craft a one-off special version of Windows just for Surface products and strip out all the unnecessary cruft to achieve something closer to the integrated quality that Apple gets.
But that's not Microsoft's gig.
Even though Microsoft goes after several of the same markets that Apple is in, the two companies are far apart in terms of what defines their identity and sense of purpose. Apple has always been about delivering a total experience and a complete system to their customers and making sure that they include all of the necessary hardware, software, usability, support, etc., bits to make it happen. Microsoft by definition has always been a "component" supplier, with components of various sizes and complexities, that all get rolled into something resembling a system by other vendors, each with their own unique vision. Sure, Microsoft has attempted to shape the end product that gets into customers hands to some extent through guidelines and various logo standards, but it's still someone else's hands touching the final product that gets passed off to the eventual end user.
Pretty much everything that Apple makes purposefully goes directly from Apple's hands to their end users hands. That's a huge difference. Microsoft's Surface products are a little different and closer to the Apple model, but the "software DNA" that's built into the Surface products, including OS, apps, and drivers, is not nearly as purposeful for its targeted end users as Apple's software is because Windows as a component has to serve multiple vendors with many different intentions.
That's the same laptop those hacks at Verge declared "the best"... Oh the Irony.
The real irony was that the article praising the surface laptop, rated as a 0–unrepairable by iFixit was on the same page lambasting Apple for not making upgradable/repairable computers/devices without mentioning any other companies at all.
Consumer reports... eh... the same folks who ran the flawed tests on the new MacBook Pro. Major grain of salt. I’ve never used one of these machines, nor would I sully my fingers with one, but... consistency demands that I look askance at this after my reaction to the MBP battery thing.
Askance at 90000 people reporting... What? The margin of error if they're sampling the general pop of buyers, which is probable given the numbers, are very very low.
This is actually a much better feedback than their reviews... Or the trash Verge review that lauded that crap computer.
Even if you go by the fact that people that have problems tend to report more, the breadth of this survey mitigates this enough that it gives an indicator good enough to actually to make a yay or nay decision.
I find it hard to believe they got 90,000 Surface respondents when they have to send out 4M questionnaires to get 480K responses for cars. The number of Surface respondents is likely quite low and no cited. I'm mean shit, with a 6%-12% respondent rate on cars you really think they sent a million or so surveys to Surface owners?
Dream on.
I can get pretty much any result I want from a survey, so yes, the same organization that went for clickbait results on Apple likely has done so again because MS has gained some meager mindshare.
These are the same guys that bought part of Gawker (consumerist) to improve their internet advocacy arm.
My Samsung owning friend love his Surface Pro. He rolled his eyes at the MacBook Pro's "USB-C obsession" while secretly wishing for the day it replaces USB-A, B, mini-A, mini-B, micro-A, micro-B standardses.
I can understand his feelings. After all with the MacBook Pro, you have to get a dongle to plug things into the industry standard USB-C connector, while with the Surface Pro, they have a proprietary "Dock Connector" that you can plug absolutely anything in to with the right dongle...
Consumer reports... eh... the same folks who ran the flawed tests on the new MacBook Pro. Major grain of salt. I’ve never used one of these machines, nor would I sully my fingers with one, but... consistency demands that I look askance at this after my reaction to the MBP battery thing.
Askance at 90000 people reporting... What? The margin of error if they're sampling the general pop of buyers, which is probable given the numbers, are very very low.
This is actually a much better feedback than their reviews... Or the trash Verge review that lauded that crap computer.
Even if you go by the fact that people that have problems tend to report more, the breadth of this survey mitigates this enough that it gives an indicator good enough to actually to make a yay or nay decision.
I find it hard to believe they got 90,000 Surface respondents when they have to send out 4M questionnaires to get 480K responses for cars. The number of Surface respondents is likely quite low and no cited. I'm mean shit, with a 6%-12% respondent rate on cars you really think they sent a million or so surveys to Surface owners?
Dream on.
lol Microsoft be like "WTF… we didn't even sell 90K of these!"
Consumer reports... eh... the same folks who ran the flawed tests on the new MacBook Pro. Major grain of salt. I’ve never used one of these machines, nor would I sully my fingers with one, but... consistency demands that I look askance at this after my reaction to the MBP battery thing.
Askance at 90000 people reporting... What? The margin of error if they're sampling the general pop of buyers, which is probable given the numbers, are very very low.
This is actually a much better feedback than their reviews... Or the trash Verge review that lauded that crap computer.
Even if you go by the fact that people that have problems tend to report more, the breadth of this survey mitigates this enough that it gives an indicator good enough to actually to make a yay or nay decision.
I find it hard to believe they got 90,000 Surface respondents when they have to send out 4M questionnaires to get 480K responses for cars. The number of Surface respondents is likely quite low and no cited. I'm mean shit, with a 6%-12% respondent rate on cars you really think they sent a million or so surveys to Surface owners?
Dream on.
I can get pretty much any result I want from a survey, so yes, the same organization that went for clickbait results on Apple likely has done so again because MS has gained some meager mindshare.
These are the same guys that bought part of Gawker (consumerist) to improve their internet advocacy arm.
So, you got nothing huh. There is a bias in the fact people with problems report more and in if surface buyers reflect those surveyed, but that's it. For Surface Pros, numbers sampled are likely low enough and demos differ enough that they can't really say either way. But, for the mass market Surface laptops, the whole brand they sure can.
If they get at least a thousands surface owner, which shouldn't be hard to do even if they sell like crap, the numbers would be statistically significant. 25% is likely way way more than the numbers they need to declare the results significant for the Surface with their subsampling.
You have to remember that any skewing also happens to other makers, that's relative results in this case still reflect relative satisfactions of users regardless of actual real numbers unless there is a huge disparity between who buys surface laptops and other maker's laptops.
When I use a tablet, I want it to be fast and reliable. That's not Windows!!! As I use Windows on my Desktop at Home and Work, I don't want to deal with the same things I do with Windows. The hours wasted over the years from Windows 95 to Windows 10 that I'm currently using having to fix the many issues I've had over the years. To giving up and ReInstalling Windows and then Reinstalling my software and settings. That alone takes hours to a few days to deal with!!!
TO top it off, you also have to deal with Firewalls, Anti-Virus software, Malware software, Spyware software, and so on and so on.
I'm still using my iPad 3 though it is pretty laggy these days, but it works. I haven't had to do any the the above listed things on it. I want to upgrade to a iPad Pro this year. I'm waiting for iOS11 though. I'm not a fan of running Beta software. I like to just turn it on and start using it and not worry about all that other crap.
I had a slow iPad 2. What I did was ,I reset the Settings & Data from Settings>General>Reset. Then I installed ONLY the stuff I used, this removed old data , and made the device much faster. You should try it
Consumer reports... eh... the same folks who ran the flawed tests on the new MacBook Pro. Major grain of salt. I’ve never used one of these machines, nor would I sully my fingers with one, but... consistency demands that I look askance at this after my reaction to the MBP battery thing.
Askance at 90000 people reporting... What? The margin of error if they're sampling the general pop of buyers, which is probable given the numbers, are very very low.
This is actually a much better feedback than their reviews... Or the trash Verge review that lauded that crap computer.
Even if you go by the fact that people that have problems tend to report more, the breadth of this survey mitigates this enough that it gives an indicator good enough to actually to make a yay or nay decision.
I find it hard to believe they got 90,000 Surface respondents when they have to send out 4M questionnaires to get 480K responses for cars. The number of Surface respondents is likely quite low and no cited. I'm mean shit, with a 6%-12% respondent rate on cars you really think they sent a million or so surveys to Surface owners?
Dream on.
I can get pretty much any result I want from a survey, so yes, the same organization that went for clickbait results on Apple likely has done so again because MS has gained some meager mindshare.
These are the same guys that bought part of Gawker (consumerist) to improve their internet advocacy arm.
So, you got nothing huh. There is a bias in the fact people with problems report more and in if surface buyers reflect those surveyed, but that's it. For Surface Pros, numbers sampled are likely low enough and demos differ enough that they can't really say either way. But, for the mass market Surface laptops, the whole brand they sure can.
If they get at least a thousands surface owner, which shouldn't be hard to do even if they sell like crap, the numbers would be statistically significant. 25% is likely way way more than the numbers they need to declare the results significant for the Surface with their subsampling.
You have to remember that any skewing also happens to other makers, that's relative results in this case still reflect relative satisfactions of users regardless of actual real numbers unless there is a huge disparity between who buys surface laptops and other maker's laptops.
What we have is a 20th century organization looking for relevance in a 21st century environment when most folks looking for information on a product look at reviews posted on Amazon.
An organization that has chased headlines in the past by creating mountains out of molehill issues against the iPhone and MBP.
Given that they have deliberately skewed results against Apple there is reason not to trust them on pretty much anything tech related. What are going to say the next time they trash an Apple product because they need hits?
Frankly, if you read CR on any topic you are knowledgeable (computers, cars, whatever) you realize that often they have no clue and nobody knowledgeable would make the same recommendations or have the same concerns about their "issues".
Note that the article is also written deceptively...there is the implication that they have 90K Surface owner respondents and they don't indicate either the number of sent surveys, respondents and survey questions. That leaves the reader completely unable to judge the value of their "findings". Given those parameters I can show any result I want to fit whatever conclusion I want.
If I were send a survey to 2016 MBP users asking if they had ANY issues with their laptop and scored all respondents who replied yes (I had to buy a dongle, I liked the old keyboard more, I had an issue transferring my old apps and documents, I don't' think understand the touch bar) want to bet I couldn't claim 25% of 2016-2017 MBP owners report problems in the first two years?
Heck, I love my 2017 MBP but it glitched with my Dell USB-C dock that required a firmware update on the Dell. CR would count me as someone who reported a problem with the new MBP which might be a semi-true statement but pushes a false narrative. The survey question would be "Have you had any issues with connecting your MBP with any peripherals?". Yes, but it wasn't really Apple fault.
I have both a Surface Book and current MBP. That folks have issues with Windows isn't surprising at all and 25% strikes me as low. Windows still has a lot rough edges than MacOS. The hardware has been pretty solid though and I love the hybrid design. I like my 2017 MBP more though now that it's thinner and lighter than my 2013 MBP and eGPUs are on the horizon.
Oh, in some research circles a handful of respondents can generate "statistically significant" results. Without also reporting p-value, effect size and even alpha you have no idea what that means.
Also, the article doesn't provide any insight into how other hybrids score. Don't you think it might have been of interest to know how many hybrid owners reported "problems" and the nature of their problems? What if hybrid respondents in general had a 50% problem rate?
There are lies, damn lies and statistics. You want to believe these because you dislike Microsoft. I look at them with suspicion because I don't trust CR after they screwed over Apple to get hits.
Fuck CR. Soon enough there will be another Apple hit piece and MS is unimportant these days. Who cares that MS and Apple were rivals in the last century?
Shades of the original Xbox. Doesn't it have the reputation as the least reliable consumer product ever with return rates of 70%? It caused Microsoft to delay profit on their gaming division.
For all its faults, the Surface remains in a class by itself. Apple certainly has nothing to compete with it -- unless you want to spend far more to buy and then lug around 2 devices to replace it.
Come on Apple! The world is waiting with open arms for your next great product. You can do it!
For all its faults, the Surface remains in a class by itself. Apple certainly has nothing to compete with it -- unless you want to spend far more to buy and then lug around 2 devices to replace it.
Come on Apple! The world is waiting with open arms for your next great product. You can do it!
This doesnt make sense. The Surface is a severe compromise of products, just read this thread for those who have and said the same -- as a tablet, it sucks.
The iPad Pro 10.5" is the their latest great product. It's awesome. When I want to run Photoshop I'll get myself to my desktop.
I've had two Surface Pros. An SP2 and an SP4. The backlight went out on the SP2 after less than a year and it was replaced under warranty. The SP4 has been flawless.
I've got a feeling a lot of the issues consumers are reporting relate to the sleep problems that plagued the SP3 and SP4 models for quite a while. A lot of the problem is Microsoft has to design its OS to run on tens of thousands of different hardware combinations by multiple manufacturers with new CPUs, motherboards, and video cards released every month. Even though they do control the hardware in the surface the underlying OS still has to be able to run on an almost unlimited combination of other components.
Apple has comparatively minuscule variations in hardware, revises its devices at a glacial pace, provides extremely limited opportunity for the user to upgrade after purchase, and is in complete control of the system from top to bottom. Apple can identify and eliminate potential issues much easier than Microsoft.
Having said that though, I would still recommend a Surface for anyone looking for a Windows based device.
But you said the SP4 is flawless, then you follow it up with "...sleep problems plagued the SP3 and SP4..." What you're saying does not make sense.
It makes perfect sense if you quote him completely and in context:
"... relate to the sleep problems that plagued the SP3 and SP4 models for quite a while."
that clearly indicates that the problems were not permanent.
He also said: I've had two Surface Pros. ... The SP4 has been flawless.
He is speaking about his personal experience with his machine. Of course, he could also be in the 75%.
For all its faults, the Surface remains in a class by itself. Apple certainly has nothing to compete with it -- unless you want to spend far more to buy and then lug around 2 devices to replace it.
Come on Apple! The world is waiting with open arms for your next great product. You can do it!
This doesnt make sense. The Surface is a severe compromise of products, just read this thread for those who have and said the same -- as a tablet, it sucks.
The iPad Pro 10.5" is the their latest great product. It's awesome. When I want to run Photoshop I'll get myself to my desktop.
It sucks because its designed and built by Microsoft who have always been better at marketing than design.... By your logic the iPod must fail because the Zune was crappy. And, the iPhone must fail because the Windows phone was crappy...
I kid you not, I was in the Microsoft Store last year and went to a Surface Tablet on display hit the power button and it turned on to that error message and shut down. I told the guy that probably wasn’t a good selling point.
This doesnt make sense. The Surface is a severe compromise of products, just read this thread for those who have and said the same -- as a tablet, it sucks.
The iPad Pro 10.5" is the their latest great product. It's awesome. When I want to run Photoshop I'll get myself to my desktop.
It sucks because its designed and built by Microsoft who have always been better at marketing than design.... By your logic the iPod must fail because the Zune was crappy. And, the iPhone must fail because the Windows phone was crappy...
Actually GeorgeBMac the sequential flow of your reasoning doesn't make sense: it implies that the Zune and Windows phone were launched at the same time or before the iPod and iPhone; the reality was that both the Zune and Windows Phone were launched in reaction to the earliersuccess of the iPod and iPhone.
Comments
But that's not Microsoft's gig.
Even though Microsoft goes after several of the same markets that Apple is in, the two companies are far apart in terms of what defines their identity and sense of purpose. Apple has always been about delivering a total experience and a complete system to their customers and making sure that they include all of the necessary hardware, software, usability, support, etc., bits to make it happen. Microsoft by definition has always been a "component" supplier, with components of various sizes and complexities, that all get rolled into something resembling a system by other vendors, each with their own unique vision. Sure, Microsoft has attempted to shape the end product that gets into customers hands to some extent through guidelines and various logo standards, but it's still someone else's hands touching the final product that gets passed off to the eventual end user.
Pretty much everything that Apple makes purposefully goes directly from Apple's hands to their end users hands. That's a huge difference. Microsoft's Surface products are a little different and closer to the Apple model, but the "software DNA" that's built into the Surface products, including OS, apps, and drivers, is not nearly as purposeful for its targeted end users as Apple's software is because Windows as a component has to serve multiple vendors with many different intentions.
Dream on.
I can get pretty much any result I want from a survey, so yes, the same organization that went for clickbait results on Apple likely has done so again because MS has gained some meager mindshare.
These are the same guys that bought part of Gawker (consumerist) to improve their internet advocacy arm.
There is a bias in the fact people with problems report more and in if surface buyers reflect those surveyed, but that's it.
For Surface Pros, numbers sampled are likely low enough and demos differ enough that they can't really say either way.
But, for the mass market Surface laptops, the whole brand they sure can.
If they get at least a thousands surface owner, which shouldn't be hard to do even if they sell like crap, the numbers would be statistically significant.
25% is likely way way more than the numbers they need to declare the results significant for the Surface with their subsampling.
You have to remember that any skewing also happens to other makers, that's relative results in this case still reflect relative satisfactions of users regardless of actual real numbers unless there is a huge disparity between who buys surface laptops and other maker's laptops.
What I did was ,I reset the Settings & Data from Settings>General>Reset.
Then I installed ONLY the stuff I used, this removed old data , and made the device much faster.
You should try it
An organization that has chased headlines in the past by creating mountains out of molehill issues against the iPhone and MBP.
Given that they have deliberately skewed results against Apple there is reason not to trust them on pretty much anything tech related. What are going to say the next time they trash an Apple product because they need hits?
Frankly, if you read CR on any topic you are knowledgeable (computers, cars, whatever) you realize that often they have no clue and nobody knowledgeable would make the same recommendations or have the same concerns about their "issues".
Note that the article is also written deceptively...there is the implication that they have 90K Surface owner respondents and they don't indicate either the number of sent surveys, respondents and survey questions. That leaves the reader completely unable to judge the value of their "findings". Given those parameters I can show any result I want to fit whatever conclusion I want.
If I were send a survey to 2016 MBP users asking if they had ANY issues with their laptop and scored all respondents who replied yes (I had to buy a dongle, I liked the old keyboard more, I had an issue transferring my old apps and documents, I don't' think understand the touch bar) want to bet I couldn't claim 25% of 2016-2017 MBP owners report problems in the first two years?
Heck, I love my 2017 MBP but it glitched with my Dell USB-C dock that required a firmware update on the Dell. CR would count me as someone who reported a problem with the new MBP which might be a semi-true statement but pushes a false narrative. The survey question would be "Have you had any issues with connecting your MBP with any peripherals?". Yes, but it wasn't really Apple fault.
I have both a Surface Book and current MBP. That folks have issues with Windows isn't surprising at all and 25% strikes me as low. Windows still has a lot rough edges than MacOS. The hardware has been pretty solid though and I love the hybrid design. I like my 2017 MBP more though now that it's thinner and lighter than my 2013 MBP and eGPUs are on the horizon.
Oh, in some research circles a handful of respondents can generate "statistically significant" results. Without also reporting p-value, effect size and even alpha you have no idea what that means.
Also, the article doesn't provide any insight into how other hybrids score. Don't you think it might have been of interest to know how many hybrid owners reported "problems" and the nature of their problems? What if hybrid respondents in general had a 50% problem rate?
There are lies, damn lies and statistics. You want to believe these because you dislike Microsoft. I look at them with suspicion because I don't trust CR after they screwed over Apple to get hits.
Fuck CR. Soon enough there will be another Apple hit piece and MS is unimportant these days. Who cares that MS and Apple were rivals in the last century?
As PT Barnum said....
Microsoft is just not a culture of obsessives...
Come on Apple! The world is waiting with open arms for your next great product. You can do it!
The iPad Pro 10.5" is the their latest great product. It's awesome. When I want to run Photoshop I'll get myself to my desktop.
"... relate to the sleep problems that plagued the SP3 and SP4 models for quite a while."
that clearly indicates that the problems were not permanent.
He also said:
I've had two Surface Pros. ... The SP4 has been flawless.
He is speaking about his personal experience with his machine. Of course, he could also be in the 75%.
By your logic the iPod must fail because the Zune was crappy.
And, the iPhone must fail because the Windows phone was crappy...