My problem with FaceID is that it further degrades our individual privacy and makes us more vulnerable to both over-officious government and predatory marketing.
TouchID is my physical finger on this phone. FaceID is my face on a potentially global database. Coming from the UK, one of the most surveilled societies in the western world, I find this worrying.
I'm not interested in being reduced to a target for near-field / face-recognition ads or constant surveilance.
An old fart? For sure - I actually like being an individual.
Privacy and individuality are largely a thing of the past. "Social" media / tech hv brought on a paradigm so shift so quickly and so thoroughly, most people have yet to comprehend that it's happened.
We are the wrong species. 250,000 year old, hunter-gatherer brains, grappling with nuclear technology & always-on, instant communications. It must be clear that we don't see to be able to handle this complexity ;-(
From the Chicago Tribune article: Kaczynski cannot be surprised. “Once a technical innovation has been introduced,” he noted, “people usually become dependent on it, so that they can never again do without it, unless it is replaced by some still more advanced innovation. Not only do people become dependent as individuals on a new item of technology, but, even more, the system as a whole becomes dependent on it. (Imagine what would happen to the system today if computers, for example, were eliminated.)”
Kaczynski was a perfect example of a luddite. Here's where all such arguments break down. The fact that such people utilize written language, or language in any form, implies they are willing to accept some forms of progress, but not others. The evolution of complex language, the opposable thumb, culture, are all advances we cannot support modern society without.
Not to mention money, an imagined reality we all agree upon. Every time you spend money you re-affirm humanity's believe in the value of little slips of paper, which on their own have little utility value, as exchangeble for real goods and services. Money is an imagined reality and this shared imagined reality is what keeps our entire society functioning. But they are merely slips of paper or pieces of metal (e.g. gold). A hungry bear intent upon eating you cannot be bought off even with a pile of money or gold representing a million dollars (it's just a pile of paper or metal he can easily go around on his way to tackle you). Bears and lions and rabbits deal only with objective reality. Only humans deal in the imagined realities that allow us to build societies, transportation networks, corporations, churches, etc, to think about how the universe functions, travel into space, etc. Without all of this we would live as animals do, and that's a choice any individual can make, but you'd then be subject, as the natural world around us is, to humans who utilize the evolved capabilities and technologies at our disposal. Be a Luddite if you please, but know that it's a strictly human advancement that even allows you to grok that concept.
Hey Radarthekat
You are an AI moderator? Oh dear.
My point was that our brains have not been able to keep up with the technology they have created - and you reply with irrelevant nonsense about language, opposable thumbs, money, bears, Luddites . . .
Getting back to the point. Look out the window. How do you think we are doing on managing our population, environment, climate? Personally, I don’t think we are doing very well - can you grok that concept?
Speak for yourself, sunshine.
I have no idea how you got from the faceID recognition system to population, environemnt or climate.
Why introduce something you intend to obsolete in a few years to a new line.
Because TouchID only came into existence in 2013, so it has been around for 4 years and is now obsoleted. That’s how technology works. The MicroDVI port only lasted for one generation on the MacBook Air, and then Mini DisplayPort was only used for 5 years before supersession by Thunderbolt (still physically compatible, sure). And if we take the port shape in general, that was used for 8 years before Thunderbolt 3 changed it. FaceID will show up in the FaceTime camera on new MacBooks (which will finally force Apple to upgrade those things). Note, of course, that it won’t be showing up in Apple’s new standalone display–whenever that comes out–because they don’t seem to care about feature parity that much. Speaking of something similar, what about feature equivalency? WHY THE FUCK DOES SAFARI IN IOS STILL LOAD NEW BACKGROUND TABS IN THE EXACT FUCKING OPPOSITE WAY OF SAFARI ON OS X?! Makes no sense.
Btw, face ID is here for good. TouchID will be gone.
FaceID uses the same technology that is needed for AR and also for reading gestures.
TouchID isn't going anywhere. It will be in the future versions of the X series.
I expect touch ID will be in their legacy iPhones/iPads that sit at lower price points for a while, maybe Macs too but I expect Face ID to replace touch ID in new models.
Other people seem to think that they wanted FaceID all the time regardless. That that was always the plan, but Apple's actions on touchID on the Macbooks doesnt make much sense in that case. Why introduce something you intend to obsolete in a few years to a new line.
The Mac has the touchbar too so I'm sure that weighed into the decision as the touch ID and bar run off the same system. I also don't think they'd introduce Face ID on the Mac before the iPhone.
Face ID will work much better for the iMac because it means they don't have to make an expensive external keyboard with touch ID that would have to communicate wirelessly and it works with 3rd party peripherals. It will also work better for laptops as you'll be able to open the lid and it logs in, same with reboot and it can switch accounts using faces (assuming they allow multiple faces).
If iPads will get Face ID, they'd have to rethink the dock swipe up as that's needed for home now but I don't think they'd want to pass up the AR capability so maybe it will just be a flick of the home button for the dock.
The main Macs are all up to date. The iMac Pro launches at the end of the year. If that includes biometrics, I reckon it will be Face ID.
Face ID works perfectly well on its own, there's no immediate reason to include both it and touch ID. It would add additional security to have both but it's not essential.
The people who work at Apple have to use these devices themselves so the fact they've decided not to include touch ID suggests they're happy with how Face ID works on its own. I suspect most people will be too.
My problem with FaceID is that it further degrades our individual privacy and makes us more vulnerable to both over-officious government and predatory marketing.
TouchID is my physical finger on this phone. FaceID is my face on a potentially global database. Coming from the UK, one of the most surveilled societies in the western world, I find this worrying.
I'm not interested in being reduced to a target for near-field / face-recognition ads or constant surveilance.
An old fart? For sure - I actually like being an individual.
You’re not ann old fart - just an ignorant one. There is no “database” for Face ID, much less a global one. Just like Touch ID, a mathematical representation of your face is kept on the secure enclave on the phone. That’s it. Stop spreading ignorant FUD. Or are you a politician? In that case, you’re just acting as expected (this was a reference to an equally ignorant senator asking Apple similar questions, making it clear that neither he - nor you - have bothered to watch/read about it first)
I'm happy to be called ignorant when I am.
My point was that TouchID is local, here, with my finger, secure enclave - but do you believe that nothing is sent to the iCloud in this interaction? If my TouchID is sent to the iCloud then someone has to get my finger before they do harm. If anything is sent to iCloud regarding my face, then all bets are off - it's a prudent policy to think that anything you send over the net (phone, text, email . . .) will be intercepted and catalogued.
Like I said, I'm happy to be called ignorant, so just try to enlighten me rather than getting into all the ad hominem wanking (FUD. politician, blah, blah) nonsence.
Talk to me.
Even if the information get sent to iCloud, they still have no idea what you look like or your fingerprint look like. It's all garbled. They cannot reconstruct at all.
I'd love to believe you, but can you be sure that NSA and all the other owners of super-computers and advance deep-learning AI can't figure it out?
Are you aware of the ramifications of Apple executives lying about this? The SEC and shareholders would have their heads. And so common sense alone should tell you that they are speaking truthfully when they state, which they have both verbally and in writing, that both TouchID data and FaceID data are stored ONLY in the secure Enclave of a user's phone. And the data is one-way encrypted, so that it cannot possibly be unencrypted back into its raw form. Period.
Btw, face ID is here for good. TouchID will be gone.
FaceID uses the same technology that is needed for AR and also for reading gestures.
TouchID isn't going anywhere. It will be in the future versions of the X series.
Gruber doesn’t believe so, and he talks baseball with these execs. I wouldn’t bet against him.
Gruber said there would be a new form-figure for the Apple Watch this year too: "It's hard to overstate just how big a deal this could be. No mention in Businessweek's report, though, of the all-new form factor that I've heard is coming for this year's new watches."
Whiffed big-time on that one, continuing with the baseball talk theme.
Btw, face ID is here for good. TouchID will be gone.
FaceID uses the same technology that is needed for AR and also for reading gestures.
TouchID isn't going anywhere. It will be in the future versions of the X series.
I expect touch ID will be in their legacy iPhones/iPads that sit at lower price points for a while, maybe Macs too but I expect Face ID to replace touch ID in new models.
Other people seem to think that they wanted FaceID all the time regardless. That that was always the plan, but Apple's actions on touchID on the Macbooks doesnt make much sense in that case. Why introduce something you intend to obsolete in a few years to a new line.
The Mac has the touchbar too so I'm sure that weighed into the decision as the touch ID and bar run off the same system. I also don't think they'd introduce Face ID on the Mac before the iPhone.
Face ID will work much better for the iMac because it means they don't have to make an expensive external keyboard with touch ID that would have to communicate wirelessly and it works with 3rd party peripherals. It will also work better for laptops as you'll be able to open the lid and it logs in, same with reboot and it can switch accounts using faces (assuming they allow multiple faces).
If iPads will get Face ID, they'd have to rethink the dock swipe up as that's needed for home now but I don't think they'd want to pass up the AR capability so maybe it will just be a flick of the home button for the dock.
The main Macs are all up to date. The iMac Pro launches at the end of the year. If that includes biometrics, I reckon it will be Face ID.
Face ID works perfectly well on its own, there's no immediate reason to include both it and touch ID. It would add additional security to have both but it's not essential.
The people who work at Apple have to use these devices themselves so the fact they've decided not to include touch ID suggests they're happy with how Face ID works on its own. I suspect most people will be too.
No it means they didn't get touchid to work on the X as well as they would like and at a reasonable cost. I find out hard to understand why that idea is so controversial. Apple will release something when perfect, not before.
The API is designed to hide the implementation from the high level developer.
No it means they didn't get touchid to work on the X as well as they would like and at a reasonable cost. I find out hard to understand why that idea is so controversial. Apple will release something when perfect, not before.
I don't think it's a controversial idea that Apple wouldn't release something until it was working well but they don't need touch ID any more. At some point a decision was made to push the display to the edge with OLED and they needed some form of biometrics. Touch ID and Face ID would have been developed by different teams, likely in parallel. If the touch ID team had put it on the side button, it could only sample a narrow portion of the finger so it increases the error rate. Touch ID has a sapphire cover to prevent scratches interfering with the scanning. Putting it under the display not only means it's glass on top but there would be a physical OLED barrier in front of it unless they cut another hole in the display like the top notch and waste space under the display.
The Face ID team clearly managed to get the face scanner working well and they could do it at the scale they needed so touch ID isn't needed now. There are products where touch ID would still be useful like the Apple TV remote, legacy products, maybe HomePod if they enable purchasing. While it would allow increasing security further on iPhone X, it's already secure enough and adding touch ID under the glass would cause more engineering problems than the benefits gained. I don't see it coming back to the iPhone X and the more people get accustomed to using Face ID, I don't think they'll miss it.
Comments
Speak for yourself, sunshine.
I have no idea how you got from the faceID recognition system to population, environemnt or climate.
Because TouchID only came into existence in 2013, so it has been around for 4 years and is now obsoleted. That’s how technology works. The MicroDVI port only lasted for one generation on the MacBook Air, and then Mini DisplayPort was only used for 5 years before supersession by Thunderbolt (still physically compatible, sure). And if we take the port shape in general, that was used for 8 years before Thunderbolt 3 changed it. FaceID will show up in the FaceTime camera on new MacBooks (which will finally force Apple to upgrade those things). Note, of course, that it won’t be showing up in Apple’s new standalone display–whenever that comes out–because they don’t seem to care about feature parity that much. Speaking of something similar, what about feature equivalency? WHY THE FUCK DOES SAFARI IN IOS STILL LOAD NEW BACKGROUND TABS IN THE EXACT FUCKING OPPOSITE WAY OF SAFARI ON OS X?! Makes no sense.
The Mac has the touchbar too so I'm sure that weighed into the decision as the touch ID and bar run off the same system. I also don't think they'd introduce Face ID on the Mac before the iPhone.
Face ID will work much better for the iMac because it means they don't have to make an expensive external keyboard with touch ID that would have to communicate wirelessly and it works with 3rd party peripherals. It will also work better for laptops as you'll be able to open the lid and it logs in, same with reboot and it can switch accounts using faces (assuming they allow multiple faces).
If iPads will get Face ID, they'd have to rethink the dock swipe up as that's needed for home now but I don't think they'd want to pass up the AR capability so maybe it will just be a flick of the home button for the dock.
The main Macs are all up to date. The iMac Pro launches at the end of the year. If that includes biometrics, I reckon it will be Face ID.
Face ID works perfectly well on its own, there's no immediate reason to include both it and touch ID. It would add additional security to have both but it's not essential.
The people who work at Apple have to use these devices themselves so the fact they've decided not to include touch ID suggests they're happy with how Face ID works on its own. I suspect most people will be too.
https://hackernoon.com/dear-apple-the-iphone-x-and-face-id-are-orwellian-and-creepy-bfca99c61fca
iOS 11 doesn’t actually turn off Wi-Fi or Bluetooth when you turn them off from Control Center
Completely fucking unacceptable. It even removes the icons from the top bar. Blatant lies."It's hard to overstate just how big a deal this could be. No mention in Businessweek's report, though, of the all-new form factor that I've heard is coming for this year's new watches."
Whiffed big-time on that one, continuing with the baseball talk theme.
The API is designed to hide the implementation from the high level developer.
The Face ID team clearly managed to get the face scanner working well and they could do it at the scale they needed so touch ID isn't needed now. There are products where touch ID would still be useful like the Apple TV remote, legacy products, maybe HomePod if they enable purchasing. While it would allow increasing security further on iPhone X, it's already secure enough and adding touch ID under the glass would cause more engineering problems than the benefits gained. I don't see it coming back to the iPhone X and the more people get accustomed to using Face ID, I don't think they'll miss it.