Why are they comparing to Mc Book? Just go make a good windows tablet and run with it. Ops my bad, they will fall on thier face if they do run...
That's incorrect. They're comparing it to MBP. These new Surface Books are aimed at key areas: Business professionals, MR / VR, Gaming, and the MBP's stronghold, Creative Professionals. On a side note, it's interesting to see MS competing hard against Apple where it feels it's strong at (PCs / tablets) and on the other end of the spectrum Google is competing against Apple where it feels it's strong at (smartphones / AI). It's gonna be an interesting year ahead.
It's good for Apple to have strong competition. The specs on these sound good because they're one Intel release cycle ahead of Apple's comparable offerings. Somebody will like these, but no amount of silicon wizardry is going to change the fact that these are still Windows devices. That simple fact and fundamental difference makes these a non-starter for me and many other Apple customers. Wait six months or so and Apple will have comparable hardware, or switch over to Microsoft now and suffer an eternity of aggravation and annoyance. Very easy decision.
Exactly. They are still Windows devices, and I despise Windows to this day. I use it at work, and it makes me nuts. There are so many annoyances I can't count, as well as performance issues. As usual, decent industrial design and state-of-the-art hardware does not make a successful machine alone. The software must be seamless so the machine can become more than the sum of its parts. I guarantee you my iPhone works better with my 2015 MBP than it does any Windows machine.
I think you should just stop making suggestions....
He might have a point. As nice as the iPad Pro & Macbook Pros are, maybe the future of the tablet & laptop is the marriage between the two.
Not imo. - Windows 2 in 1s are not great tablets. The Windows hybrid is a laptop for most of it users where the trackpad / mouse is essential. Finger touch is an afterthought on these Surface PCs which usually only gets occasional use. - As for the laptop, the best OS imo is one optimized for mouse / trackpad use. Kludgy overlays of big tiles are a waste of resources and get in the way of the UI. - As for finger touch tablets, the best OS for that to me is one which is completely optimized for finger touch.
Imagine how excited we would all be if those tablets had the same specs and an Apple logo. A tablet that is powerful enough to run a VR headset and a touch screen. Pretty sweet if you ask me.
I think you should just stop making suggestions....
He might have a point. As nice as the iPad Pro & Macbook Pros are, maybe the future of the tablet & laptop is the marriage between the two.
He has no point at all...have you ever used a 2 in 1 device? They're not the best experience and you either use it for one thing or the other. Rarely do I see anyone use it for both. Its just like people who want a touchscreen iMac...sounds really cool and functional until you go to actually use it for something.
What you would end up with is a half-ass tablet and half-ass Mac which is exactly why you see the product lineup Apple has. This is why Apple specifically has a tablet OS and a desktop OS. This works out really well for Apple so why would they change this?
The specs will be used by every Apple-hating tech writer to "prove" Apple is doomed and Microsoft is the leader. What they won't promote will be the issues each device has, as has been the case with past versions of the Surface Books, because that doesn't generate clicks, since everyone already expects it of Microsoft. I certainly don't disagree that the MacBook Pro line could use a more significant upgrade as far as power / performance goes, but I think what Apple is working towards in using their own designed CPU / GPU is going to be the thing that further separates them from the pack, in the same way their new A11 Bionic chip and GPU have already reached parity with some Intel laptop / desktop chips.
Nice competition but it's still Windows. Yuck!
As for not including ThunderBolt 3, well, it's still not in demand and it makes no economic sense for MS to pay royalties for including TB3 when TB will become royalty free next year. It's likely that MS will include that next year.
Apple included TB3 because of its history with Intel on developing TB.
The specs will be used by every Apple-hating tech writer to "prove" Apple is doomed and Microsoft is the leader. What they won't promote will be the issues each device has, as has been the case with past versions of the Surface Books, because that doesn't generate clicks, since everyone already expects it of Microsoft. I certainly don't disagree that the MacBook Pro line could use a more significant upgrade as far as power / performance goes, but I think what Apple is working towards in using their own designed CPU / GPU is going to be the thing that further separates them from the pack, in the same way their new A11 Bionic chip and GPU have already reached parity with some Intel laptop / desktop chips.
Obviously, Apple is not doomed but neither is MS or Google. Competition has never been stronger and that's good for consumers.
" I think what Apple is working towards in using their own designed CPU / GPU is going to be the thing that further separates them from the pack"
I'm cautiously optimistic with respect to Apple releasing ARM-based Macs.
That is such a good point! Is the new surface better than an HP or Dell? Lenovo? Everyone already knows that the latest Intel CPU is not two times faster than the last one. But for a Windows purchaser, the computer they are going to be comparing it against when considering a new computer by, is not a Mac. And, the reason they're going with windows is because it is a lot less expensive. And this particular deck is not.
For me, personaly , face id is more than a welcome feature since touch id is nothing more than a pain with someonw with sweaty hand and fingers.. which prevents it from working 80% if the time.
I think you should just stop making suggestions....
He might have a point. As nice as the iPad Pro & Macbook Pros are, maybe the future of the tablet & laptop is the marriage between the two.
Not imo. - Windows 2 in 1s are not great tablets. The Windows hybrid is a laptop for most of it users where the trackpad / mouse is essential. Finger touch is an afterthought on these Surface PCs which usually only gets occasional use. - As for the laptop, the best OS imo is one optimized for mouse / trackpad use. Kludgy overlays of big tiles are a waste of resources and get in the way of the UI. - As for finger touch tablets, the best OS for that to me is one which is completely optimized for finger touch.
On your second point, I'd go further and say that Windows actually needs a mouse. I find using Windows with a trackpad is a world of pain. (Quite literally) Maybe it's just the way it's been implemented on the devices I've tried to use it on, but doing serious work in Windows with a trackpad is awful. (And that includes the Magic Trackpad on my Mac when I connect to my work computer from home.)
In fact, that's the one place that I've found a touch screen on my work notebook has been useful. In situations where I don't have a mouse connected, there are some things that are easier to do with the kludgy touch interface than try to do with the trackpad. Even then, it's a pain to switch modes, as it were, and try to manipulate UI elements designed for a mouse with a finger on the screen.
This is why I keep trying to point out that a desktop OS and a tablet OS should work differently, and should have different UI objectives. And the failure to realise this is Microsoft's biggest problem. They still want the same Windows experience on everything, regardless how poorly suited it is to some use cases.
Strong competition? For those who consider specs alone I guess maybe. For those who care about ease of use, security, design, longevity, support, and a host of other rather subjective criteria, not so much competition. It’s like Ford and Chevy fanatics arguing over torque, horse power, cubic inches. I have a 2016 F-150 XLT with the 2.7 EcoBoost engine, twin turbo chargers, and a aluminum body (700 lbs lighter than a steel body). My son has a 2015 F-150 XLT with the 5.0 liter V8 and steel body. Guess what? I can beat his bigger engine off the line because I’m lighter and have more torque with the turbochargers.
While I understand the point you are trying to make, and agree, your analogy here is wrong. The truck example you cite is composed entirely of objective criteria, whereas the comparison of Surface to a MacBook Pro is not. Maybe you enjoy the comfort, engine sound, and looks of your truck vs. your sons?
Since these are expensive devices aimed at gamers and professional users, can you buy the least expensive model and then crack them open later to install 3rd-party upgraded SSDs, memory, or CPUs? Seems like when Apple refreshed the MBP line, there was lots of bellyaching that you couldn't customize and upgrade them with 3rd party parts. Surely Microsoft isn't offering a device that lacks that juicy Frankenstein upgradeability but is still loaded with an operating system chocked full of code so it can run on everything for everybody.
Options. I thought the whole selling point for Microsoft was endless options. Why would anyone buy an expensive machine with no hood latch that runs on one-size-fits-all software?
But seriously. It's mind-boggling how smart people still don't understand what Apple's business model is, why it works, and why Microsoft building in-house hybrid machines that run on an OS shared with hundreds of other manufacturers not only won't successfully compete with Apple's piece of the market, but probably won't compete well with all those other manufacturers, either. When you try to be all things to all people, you end up being everything to no one.
I can hardly wait o see it as a 15" tablet and listen to the fan start whirring as it gets hot. The i7 U series is used. Does it throttle back to keep cool?
Contrast that with top end 15" MacBook Pro CPU. Intel® Core™ i7-7920HQ
I think you should just stop making suggestions....
He might have a point. As nice as the iPad Pro & Macbook Pros are, maybe the future of the tablet & laptop is the marriage between the two.
And maybe Bigfoot exists, who knows?
Sorry but it's been discussed ad nauseum and multiple Apple execs have explained why they weren't very good.
Trust me, I get that but Apple execs do, from time to time, change their minds. Example => wireless (or inductive) charging. Awhile back Phil Schiller downplayed the idea of inductive charging and lo and behold, Apple is making their own inductive charging mat (Air Power), which is fine by me. If they feel they can make a better solution then I say bring it. I rather Apple not be dogmatic based on what they said in the past if they feel they can provide a better experience.
I can hardly wait o see it as a 15" tablet and listen to the fan start whirring as it gets hot. The i7 U series is used. Does it throttle back to keep cool?
Contrast that with top end 15" MacBook Pro CPU. Intel® Core™ i7-7920HQ
When Apple released the 10.5" iPad Pro, it was essentially the 9.7" iPad Pro form factor with a bigger screen and much smaller bezels. I wonder, come 2018, they do the same to the 12.9" iPad Pro, making the bezels smaller and screen bigger (14" ?)
Comments
- Windows 2 in 1s are not great tablets. The Windows hybrid is a laptop for most of it users where the trackpad / mouse is essential. Finger touch is an afterthought on these Surface PCs which usually only gets occasional use.
- As for the laptop, the best OS imo is one optimized for mouse / trackpad use. Kludgy overlays of big tiles are a waste of resources and get in the way of the UI.
- As for finger touch tablets, the best OS for that to me is one which is completely optimized for finger touch.
What you would end up with is a half-ass tablet and half-ass Mac which is exactly why you see the product lineup Apple has. This is why Apple specifically has a tablet OS and a desktop OS. This works out really well for Apple so why would they change this?
" I think what Apple is working towards in using their own designed CPU / GPU is going to be the thing that further separates them from the pack"
I'm cautiously optimistic with respect to Apple releasing ARM-based Macs.
On your second point, I'd go further and say that Windows actually needs a mouse. I find using Windows with a trackpad is a world of pain. (Quite literally) Maybe it's just the way it's been implemented on the devices I've tried to use it on, but doing serious work in Windows with a trackpad is awful. (And that includes the Magic Trackpad on my Mac when I connect to my work computer from home.)
In fact, that's the one place that I've found a touch screen on my work notebook has been useful. In situations where I don't have a mouse connected, there are some things that are easier to do with the kludgy touch interface than try to do with the trackpad. Even then, it's a pain to switch modes, as it were, and try to manipulate UI elements designed for a mouse with a finger on the screen.
This is why I keep trying to point out that a desktop OS and a tablet OS should work differently, and should have different UI objectives. And the failure to realise this is Microsoft's biggest problem. They still want the same Windows experience on everything, regardless how poorly suited it is to some use cases.
Sorry but it's been discussed ad nauseum and multiple Apple execs have explained why they weren't very good.
Options. I thought the whole selling point for Microsoft was endless options. Why would anyone buy an expensive machine with no hood latch that runs on one-size-fits-all software?
But seriously. It's mind-boggling how smart people still don't understand what Apple's business model is, why it works, and why Microsoft building in-house hybrid machines that run on an OS shared with hundreds of other manufacturers not only won't successfully compete with Apple's piece of the market, but probably won't compete well with all those other manufacturers, either. When you try to be all things to all people, you end up being everything to no one.
Contrast that with top end 15" MacBook Pro CPU.
Intel® Core™ i7-7920HQ
No Thunderbolt 3.....what???