My son has a 2015 F-150 XLT with the 5.0 liter V8 and steel body. Guess what? I can beat his bigger engine off the line because I’m lighter and have more torque with the turbochargers.
I remember when Apple would release new hardware on or before Intel started selling the chips. E.g.: the first MBA - Apple negotiated special packaging just so it would fit, and got access to that silicon in production volume before any other vendor - presumably paying a premium to do so.
The most recent Mac hardware from Apple is incredibly disappointing and almost always released a month ahead of the next gen silicon - so for most of its retail life it's out of date compared with other vendors. I guess Apple no longer feel like they can get away with the Mac premium and are looking for discount silicon. It's extremely disappointing.
No I'm not going to switch to surface because its OS is rubbish and wastes that extra power on virus scan overhead and poor memory management. But equally I'm not going to upgrade my MBP either. Not till they release something with recent silicon.
Im hoping they are doing all this to keep their powder dry for some awesome processor choices in the new Mac Pro and for the MBP 32G with Canon Lake
God, those GPU choices would be so preferable over Apples to me. Apart from FCPX, the 1060 is just hilariously above the Radeon Pro 560, even the 1050 in the 13" is.
What are you using a 13" laptop for that needs higher end graphics? Please don't tell me you're using FCP on it....
I don't understand the critique.
If they fit the power of a GTX 1050 in a 13" laptop, the retort of "please tell me you're not _____" is flipped on its head, is it not? You weren't doing those things because 13"s weren't powerful enough. A 1050 is pretty damn powerful. So use the smallest computer you can get away with, and a more powerful 13" laptop will let more people use that for more things.
And forget 13"ers - the 1050 in the 13" SB is more powerful then the Radeon Pro 560 in the top end 15 inch rMBP.
So the answer is..."Whatever you'd do on a 15" with a 1050 now". I give the nod to macOS, but Apples GPU choices have left me wanting. A 1060 in the 15" rMBP and 1050 in the 13 would be amazing, but instead we have the Radeon at half the 1060s performance and an Intel IGP at half the MX150s, which is about half the 1050s...
Honestly, strange answers here, none of us wonder why the A series Apple chips keep getting more powerful, more power given adequate battery life and cooling is always welcome.
On a spec-sheet level (as posted by AInsider), the higher-end model seems like a good value compared to the comparable MBP ... until you remember the operating system, lack of Thunderbolt (strange omission there), and lack of quality included apps. I will also happily lay odds that the "twice as fast" claim is an outright falsehood in all but one or two select areas.
Still, competition keeps the market moving forward, so nice to see some progress from Microsoft, incremental as it may be.
It's good for Apple to have strong competition. The specs on these sound good because they're one Intel release cycle ahead of Apple's comparable offerings. Somebody will like these, but no amount of silicon wizardry is going to change the fact that these are still Windows devices. That simple fact and fundamental difference makes these a non-starter for me and many other Apple customers. Wait six months or so and Apple will have comparable hardware, or switch over to Microsoft now and suffer an eternity of aggravation and annoyance. Very easy decision.
Strong competition? For those who consider specs alone I guess maybe. For those who care about ease of use, security, design, longevity, support, and a host of other rather subjective criteria, not so much competition. It’s like Ford and Chevy fanatics arguing over torque, horse power, cubic inches. I have a 2016 F-150 XLT with the 2.7 EcoBoost engine, twin turbo chargers, and a aluminum body (700 lbs lighter than a steel body). My son has a 2015 F-150 XLT with the 5.0 liter V8 and steel body. Guess what? I can beat his bigger engine off the line because I’m lighter and have more torque with the turbochargers.
I have your same truck, just a year newer. Heck of an engine.
I like macOS, a lot, I really do...But the 1050 in the 13 inch Surface Book is significantly better than the best Radeon Pro 560 Macbook Pro I could pay Apple money for, and the 1060 absolutely brutalizes it. I really wish they offered Nvidia choices for those of us not in FCPX all day.
I think you should just stop making suggestions....
He might have a point. As nice as the iPad Pro & Macbook Pros are, maybe the future of the tablet & laptop is the marriage between the two.
And maybe Bigfoot exists, who knows?
Sorry but it's been discussed ad nauseum and multiple Apple execs have explained why they weren't very good.
Trust me, I get that but Apple execs do, from time to time, change their minds. Example => wireless (or inductive) charging. Awhile back Phil Schiller downplayed the idea of inductive charging and lo and behold, Apple is making their own inductive charging mat (Air Power), which is fine by me. If they feel they can make a better solution then I say bring it. I rather Apple not be dogmatic based on what they said in the past if they feel they can provide a better experience.
I myself would love for iOS to add mouse support and believe that Apple should make an iOSBook laptop based on the iOS and the A series processors. Would love a high end model based on the iPadPro and a low-end laptop target to students for $250 (in polycarbonate). But that won't happen for at least 6 years during which Apple will continue to improve how people interact with iPP so that it fully supports what one would do on a laptop (similar to how they added drag and drop this year).
A few comments on the Surface Book 2 (as someone planning to get the new Surface Pro with LTE because of work).
1. With the NVIDEA GPU these machines will be powerful enough.
2. Yuck Windows 10 which just has garbage all over the place. Rather have window 7 on it. Many windows phone users were disappointed when MS came out with Win 10 (mobile phone edition) and considered it a step backwards from 8.1)
3. I just think this is going to have lots of bugs since it seems like MS is rushing this eighth gen CPU out. Tons of bugs I wouldn't buy this for 6 months if I was interested.
4. Where's the 32 GB option? (Isn't it a total Fail without a 32 GB RAM version).
I like macOS, a lot, I really do...But the 1050 in the 13 inch Surface Book is significantly better than the best Radeon Pro 560 Macbook Pro I could pay Apple money for, and the 1060 absolutely brutalizes it. I really wish they offered Nvidia choices for those of us not in FCPX all day.
Remember you can add a eGPU via Thunderbolt 3 and High Sierra if you really need a powerful GPU. These option cost more but gives you greater options for the future. see https://egpu.io/macos-high-sierra-official-external-gpu/
It's good for Apple to have strong competition. The specs on these sound good because they're one Intel release cycle ahead of Apple's comparable offerings. Somebody will like these, but no amount of silicon wizardry is going to change the fact that these are still Windows devices. That simple fact and fundamental difference makes these a non-starter for me and many other Apple customers. Wait six months or so and Apple will have comparable hardware, or switch over to Microsoft now and suffer an eternity of aggravation and annoyance. Very easy decision.
Strong competition? For those who consider specs alone I guess maybe. For those who care about ease of use, security, design, longevity, support, and a host of other rather subjective criteria, not so much competition. It’s like Ford and Chevy fanatics arguing over torque, horse power, cubic inches. I have a 2016 F-150 XLT with the 2.7 EcoBoost engine, twin turbo chargers, and a aluminum body (700 lbs lighter than a steel body). My son has a 2015 F-150 XLT with the 5.0 liter V8 and steel body. Guess what? I can beat his bigger engine off the line because I’m lighter and have more torque with the turbochargers.
Yeah but your truck sounds like a wimpy chihuahua and his like a grizzly bear. No replacement for displacement or proven reliability. All kidding aside that 2.7 is a little rocket ship. I think it’s actually faster than the Raptor in a short sprint because of all the weight gain from the bigger tires, shocks, and reinforcement. The Surface may have better specs, but Windows is still a piece of crap.
Imagine how excited we would all be if those tablets had the same specs and an Apple logo. A tablet that is powerful enough to run a VR headset and a touch screen. Pretty sweet if you ask me.
If it was a little more focused, dropped the touch-screen and ran as a notebook then I would agree with you. However, we need to see real-world tests before we fall for the headline specs (remember how those pesky iPhones keep beating their Android competitors on performance because their apparently less powerful hardware actually works better).
I didn't know the latest Intel CPUs were twice as fast as the previous model. Oh wait, they're pulling the same stunt as last year - comparing integrated graphics in a MBP to a dedicated GPU in the Surface and claiming 2x as fast.
There was an article that show how the MBP was better in CPU intensive applications while the Surface Pro had a big advantage in GPU intensive applications. What you call a "stunt" is in reality an advantage the Surface Book have over the MBP.
I think you should just stop making suggestions....
He might have a point. As nice as the iPad Pro & Macbook Pros are, maybe the future of the tablet & laptop is the marriage between the two.
And maybe Bigfoot exists, who knows?
Sorry but it's been discussed ad nauseum and multiple Apple execs have explained why they weren't very good.
Many years ago, Apple explained why touchscreen notebooks weren't ideal because they were "ergonomically terrible" and how "Touch surfaces want to be horizontal".
Years later, they release the Smart Keyboard for the iPad Pro, which gives you the "ergonomically terrible" experience Apple explained before. Looks like Apple executive explanations can change from time to time. Maybe the same could happen with a Mac Tablet.
God, those GPU choices would be so preferable over Apples to me. Apart from FCPX, the 1060 is just hilariously above the Radeon Pro 560, even the 1050 in the 13" is.
What are you using a 13" laptop for that needs higher end graphics? Please don't tell me you're using FCP on it....
I don't understand the critique.
If they fit the power of a GTX 1050 in a 13" laptop, the retort of "please tell me you're not _____" is flipped on its head, is it not? You weren't doing those things because 13"s weren't powerful enough. A 1050 is pretty damn powerful. So use the smallest computer you can get away with, and a more powerful 13" laptop will let more people use that for more things.
And forget 13"ers - the 1050 in the 13" SB is more powerful then the Radeon Pro 560 in the top end 15 inch rMBP.
So the answer is..."Whatever you'd do on a 15" with a 1050 now". I give the nod to macOS, but Apples GPU choices have left me wanting. A 1060 in the 15" rMBP and 1050 in the 13 would be amazing, but instead we have the Radeon at half the 1060s performance and an Intel IGP at half the MX150s, which is about half the 1050s...
Yes, GPUs seem impressive but there is no integrated graphics processor in the 13" i7 and 15" models. They come with Nvidia discrete graphics only, as I understand from Intel's i7-8650U's specs and Microsoft's 15" specs:
Surface Book 2 13.5” PixelSense™ Display Intel® HD Graphics 620 integrated GPU (on Intel® i5-7300U model) NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 discrete GPU w/2GB GDDR5 graphics memory (on Intel® i7-8650U models)
The lack of integrated graphics in high end models is the bad news all reviews and comments seem unaware of. That means the discrete GPU will always be on, having a huge impact on battery life and the heat produced that will cause processor throttling in turn. In high-end Macbook Pros we benefit from having two GPUs since many years. macOS switches automatically between Intel GPU and discrete GPU to preserve battery and control the heat produced.
God, those GPU choices would be so preferable over Apples to me. Apart from FCPX, the 1060 is just hilariously above the Radeon Pro 560, even the 1050 in the 13" is.
What are you using a 13" laptop for that needs higher end graphics? Please don't tell me you're using FCP on it....
I don't understand the critique.
If they fit the power of a GTX 1050 in a 13" laptop, the retort of "please tell me you're not _____" is flipped on its head, is it not? You weren't doing those things because 13"s weren't powerful enough. A 1050 is pretty damn powerful. So use the smallest computer you can get away with, and a more powerful 13" laptop will let more people use that for more things.
And forget 13"ers - the 1050 in the 13" SB is more powerful then the Radeon Pro 560 in the top end 15 inch rMBP.
So the answer is..."Whatever you'd do on a 15" with a 1050 now". I give the nod to macOS, but Apples GPU choices have left me wanting. A 1060 in the 15" rMBP and 1050 in the 13 would be amazing, but instead we have the Radeon at half the 1060s performance and an Intel IGP at half the MX150s, which is about half the 1050s...
Yes, GPUs seem impressive but there is no integrated graphics processor in the 13" i7 and 15" models. They come with Nvidia discrete graphics only, as I understand from Intel's i7-8650U's specs and Microsoft's 15" specs:
Surface Book 2 13.5” PixelSense™ Display Intel® HD Graphics 620 integrated GPU (on Intel® i5-7300U model) NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 discrete GPU w/2GB GDDR5 graphics memory (on Intel® i7-8650U models)
The lack of integrated graphics in high end models is the bad news all reviews and comments seem unaware of. That means the discrete GPU will always be on, having a huge impact on battery life and the heat produced that will cause processor throttling in turn. In high-end Macbook Pros we benefit from having two GPUs since many years. macOS switches automatically between Intel GPU and discrete GPU to preserve battery and control the heat produced.
The i7-8650U models, with NVIDIA graphics in the keyboard, have a UHD 620. How else do you think the device works as a tablet when separate from the keyboard?...
God, those GPU choices would be so preferable over Apples to me. Apart from FCPX, the 1060 is just hilariously above the Radeon Pro 560, even the 1050 in the 13" is.
What are you using a 13" laptop for that needs higher end graphics? Please don't tell me you're using FCP on it....
I don't understand the critique.
If they fit the power of a GTX 1050 in a 13" laptop, the retort of "please tell me you're not _____" is flipped on its head, is it not? You weren't doing those things because 13"s weren't powerful enough. A 1050 is pretty damn powerful. So use the smallest computer you can get away with, and a more powerful 13" laptop will let more people use that for more things.
And forget 13"ers - the 1050 in the 13" SB is more powerful then the Radeon Pro 560 in the top end 15 inch rMBP.
So the answer is..."Whatever you'd do on a 15" with a 1050 now". I give the nod to macOS, but Apples GPU choices have left me wanting. A 1060 in the 15" rMBP and 1050 in the 13 would be amazing, but instead we have the Radeon at half the 1060s performance and an Intel IGP at half the MX150s, which is about half the 1050s...
Yes, GPUs seem impressive but there is no integrated graphics processor in the 13" i7 and 15" models. They come with Nvidia discrete graphics only, as I understand from Intel's i7-8650U's specs and Microsoft's 15" specs:
Surface Book 2 13.5” PixelSense™ Display Intel® HD Graphics 620 integrated GPU (on Intel® i5-7300U model) NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 discrete GPU w/2GB GDDR5 graphics memory (on Intel® i7-8650U models)
The lack of integrated graphics in high end models is the bad news all reviews and comments seem unaware of. That means the discrete GPU will always be on, having a huge impact on battery life and the heat produced that will cause processor throttling in turn. In high-end Macbook Pros we benefit from having two GPUs since many years. macOS switches automatically between Intel GPU and discrete GPU to preserve battery and control the heat produced.
The i7-8650U models, with NVIDIA graphics in the keyboard, have a UHD 620. How else do you think the device works as a tablet when separate from the keyboard?...
Think before you post next time.
This is Microsoft that should think before posting their specs next time. I gave the link, read before posting, to my habits as a customer those mean to me that i7 laptops don't have integrated graphics.
On the other hand, even if the optional Intel 620 GPU exists in i7-8650U, if it is only active in tablet mode but not in laptop mode, then this is still bad news. Since MS doesn't even mention it, that means it is not used in laptop mode and the Nvidia is always on in laptop mode.
I didn't know the latest Intel CPUs were twice as fast as the previous model. Oh wait, they're pulling the same stunt as last year - comparing integrated graphics in a MBP to a dedicated GPU in the Surface and claiming 2x as fast.
Actually, the GTX 1050 in the 13.5 inch model is over 3x faster than the Iris Plus 650 in the 13 inch Macbook Pro with Touch Bar.
God, those GPU choices would be so preferable over Apples to me. Apart from FCPX, the 1060 is just hilariously above the Radeon Pro 560, even the 1050 in the 13" is.
What are you using a 13" laptop for that needs higher end graphics? Please don't tell me you're using FCP on it....
I don't understand the critique.
If they fit the power of a GTX 1050 in a 13" laptop, the retort of "please tell me you're not _____" is flipped on its head, is it not? You weren't doing those things because 13"s weren't powerful enough. A 1050 is pretty damn powerful. So use the smallest computer you can get away with, and a more powerful 13" laptop will let more people use that for more things.
And forget 13"ers - the 1050 in the 13" SB is more powerful then the Radeon Pro 560 in the top end 15 inch rMBP.
So the answer is..."Whatever you'd do on a 15" with a 1050 now". I give the nod to macOS, but Apples GPU choices have left me wanting. A 1060 in the 15" rMBP and 1050 in the 13 would be amazing, but instead we have the Radeon at half the 1060s performance and an Intel IGP at half the MX150s, which is about half the 1050s...
Yes, GPUs seem impressive but there is no integrated graphics processor in the 13" i7 and 15" models. They come with Nvidia discrete graphics only, as I understand from Intel's i7-8650U's specs and Microsoft's 15" specs:
Surface Book 2 13.5” PixelSense™ Display Intel® HD Graphics 620 integrated GPU (on Intel® i5-7300U model) NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 discrete GPU w/2GB GDDR5 graphics memory (on Intel® i7-8650U models)
The lack of integrated graphics in high end models is the bad news all reviews and comments seem unaware of. That means the discrete GPU will always be on, having a huge impact on battery life and the heat produced that will cause processor throttling in turn. In high-end Macbook Pros we benefit from having two GPUs since many years. macOS switches automatically between Intel GPU and discrete GPU to preserve battery and control the heat produced.
The i7-8650U models, with NVIDIA graphics in the keyboard, have a UHD 620. How else do you think the device works as a tablet when separate from the keyboard?...
Think before you post next time.
This is Microsoft that should think before posting their specs next time. I gave the link, read before posting, to my habits as a customer those mean to me that i7 laptops don't have integrated graphics.
On the other hand, even if the optional Intel 620 GPU exists in i7-8650U, if it is only active in tablet mode but not in laptop mode, then this is still bad news. Since MS doesn't even mention it, that means it is not used in laptop mode and the Nvidia is always on in laptop mode.
Think even deeper before posting.
No, it does not mean that. Like most laptops with integrated and discrete graphics, the Surface Book only uses the NVIDIA graphics when it requires extra performance, as it has done in previous models.
PCIe SSD is only available in 1TB configurations, the others are SATA SSD. We benefit from NVMExpress SSD even on entry level Retina Macbook.
They're all PCIe NVMe...
Seriously, I'm not wasting anymore time on you. You're either extremely ignorant, or you're just trying to be annoying on purpose (borderline trolling).
Comments
The most recent Mac hardware from Apple
is incredibly disappointing and almost always released a month ahead of the next gen silicon - so for most of its retail life it's out of date compared with other vendors. I guess Apple no longer feel like they can get away with the Mac premium and are looking for discount silicon. It's extremely disappointing.
No I'm not going to switch to surface because its OS is rubbish and wastes that extra power on virus scan overhead and poor memory management. But equally I'm not going to upgrade my MBP either. Not till they release something with recent silicon.
Im hoping they are doing all this to keep their powder dry for some awesome processor choices in the new Mac Pro and for the MBP 32G with Canon Lake
I don't understand the critique.
If they fit the power of a GTX 1050 in a 13" laptop, the retort of "please tell me you're not _____" is flipped on its head, is it not? You weren't doing those things because 13"s weren't powerful enough. A 1050 is pretty damn powerful. So use the smallest computer you can get away with, and a more powerful 13" laptop will let more people use that for more things.
And forget 13"ers - the 1050 in the 13" SB is more powerful then the Radeon Pro 560 in the top end 15 inch rMBP.
So the answer is..."Whatever you'd do on a 15" with a 1050 now". I give the nod to macOS, but Apples GPU choices have left me wanting. A 1060 in the 15" rMBP and 1050 in the 13 would be amazing, but instead we have the Radeon at half the 1060s performance and an Intel IGP at half the MX150s, which is about half the 1050s...
Honestly, strange answers here, none of us wonder why the A series Apple chips keep getting more powerful, more power given adequate battery life and cooling is always welcome.
I like macOS, a lot, I really do...But the 1050 in the 13 inch Surface Book is significantly better than the best Radeon Pro 560 Macbook Pro I could pay Apple money for, and the 1060 absolutely brutalizes it. I really wish they offered Nvidia choices for those of us not in FCPX all day.
But that won't happen for at least 6 years during which Apple will continue to improve how people interact with iPP so that it fully supports what one would do on a laptop (similar to how they added drag and drop this year).
A few comments on the Surface Book 2 (as someone planning to get the new Surface Pro with LTE because of work).
1. With the NVIDEA GPU these machines will be powerful enough.
2. Yuck Windows 10 which just has garbage all over the place. Rather have window 7 on it. Many windows phone users were disappointed when MS came out with Win 10 (mobile phone edition) and considered it a step backwards from 8.1)
3. I just think this is going to have lots of bugs since it seems like MS is rushing this eighth gen CPU out. Tons of bugs I wouldn't buy this for 6 months if I was interested.
4. Where's the 32 GB option? (Isn't it a total Fail without a 32 GB RAM version).
see https://egpu.io/macos-high-sierra-official-external-gpu/
http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10
Years later, they release the Smart Keyboard for the iPad Pro, which gives you the "ergonomically terrible" experience Apple explained before. Looks like Apple executive explanations can change from time to time. Maybe the same could happen with a Mac Tablet.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-surface-book-2-is-what-the-next-macbook-pro-should-be-but-almost-certainly-wont/
It’s spot on.
Surface Book 2 13.5” PixelSense™ Display
Intel® HD Graphics 620 integrated GPU (on Intel® i5-7300U model)
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 discrete GPU w/2GB GDDR5 graphics memory (on Intel® i7-8650U models)
Surface Book 2 15” PixelSense™ Display
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 discrete GPU w/6GB GDDR5 graphics memory
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-book-2/tech-specs
https://ark.intel.com/products/124968/Intel-Core-i7-8650U-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_20-GHz
showing Intel UHD Graphics 620 as optional (‡).
The lack of integrated graphics in high end models is the bad news all reviews and comments seem unaware of. That means the discrete GPU will always be on, having a huge impact on battery life and the heat produced that will cause processor throttling in turn. In high-end Macbook Pros we benefit from having two GPUs since many years. macOS switches automatically between Intel GPU and discrete GPU to preserve battery and control the heat produced.
Think before you post next time.
On the other hand, even if the optional Intel 620 GPU exists in i7-8650U, if it is only active in tablet mode but not in laptop mode, then this is still bad news. Since MS doesn't even mention it, that means it is not used in laptop mode and the Nvidia is always on in laptop mode.
Think even deeper before posting.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-book-2/tech-specs
PCIe SSD is only available in 1TB configurations, the others are SATA SSD. We benefit from NVMExpress SSD even on entry level Retina Macbook.
They're all PCIe NVMe...
Seriously, I'm not wasting anymore time on you. You're either extremely ignorant, or you're just trying to be annoying on purpose (borderline trolling).