I'm interested in purchasing a new Ferrari and I have every intent of getting one, too bad reality kicks in and I figure out I've only got Honda Accord money left after paying the bills.
I'll wait to see what actual numbers are in the December 31 and March 31 quarters. It is easy to say something when taking a survey, quite another thing when it is time to part with $1,000 for a phone.
I’m confident there’s enough in the later category such that every X Apple can build between now and the last Saturday of Dec will be snapped up. Probably also through March. After that the price might become a factor, but somehow I doubt it.
I'm interested in purchasing a new Ferrari and I have every intent of getting one, too bad reality kicks in and I figure out I've only got Honda Accord money left after paying the bills.
I'll wait to see what actual numbers are in the December 31 and March 31 quarters. It is easy to say something when taking a survey, quite another thing when it is time to part with $1,000 for a phone.
Except w Apple that’s not the barrier. It’s $56 or so dollars a month. And a very no hassle upgrade in a year.
I love Apple but I’m tired of them saying the iPhone X is full screen there’s clearly a black bezel around the phone and that very ugly notch, then the camera bump really and they want at least $1000 for this 64 gigs it’s time to take a stand and say no.
Double B.S. So go ahead and sue for false advertising and see how far you get.
So I guess John Gruber and Ken Segall are full of BS too?
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/10/20/its-all-screen I don’t have a problem with the side and bottom edges of the iPhone X being described as “all screen”. It’s not the same as Samsung’s Galaxy Edge sides, but I dislike the way those Edge phones look when I hold them. If there were no notch — that is to say, if the top of the iPhone X looked exactly like the bottom — I would have no problem declaring that “all screen” would be a fair description.
But with the notch? No way. Here’s one simple way to think about it: what does Apple do 2-3 years from now if they ship an iPhone with no notch? Describe it as “Really all screen this time”?
Until they give up a camera and speaker on the screen side there’s always going to be some structure other than screen on that side.
I love Apple but I’m tired of them saying the iPhone X is full screen there’s clearly a black bezel around the phone and that very ugly notch, then the camera bump really and they want at least $1000 for this 64 gigs it’s time to take a stand and say no.
I am tired of people saying it is not full screen just because of 1mm ‘bezel’ to protect your screen from gripping hand. I am tired of people parroting trolls in this forum. I am tired of all of these newbies popping out of nowhere and talking like a dumb clown (sorry, Pennywise) in the forum.
1) It's not fullscreen because of the notch. You can argue that it's "close enough" but the components will shrink and the notch will shrink but Apple can't then market it as fullerscreen. Plus, they've had issues with false advertising in the UK so I'm surprised to see they're saying "It’s all screen."
2) Your excuse that the bezel is to "protect your screen from gripping hand" makes no sense. You can say that they need a slight bezel because of the physics of durability, but don't suggest it's because of accidental input so they made it artificially larger than it could've been.
Perception is a wonderful thing, few people have the same experience. Is it a notch out of the screen or is it two extra bits of screen above and below the notch?
I love Apple but I’m tired of them saying the iPhone X is full screen there’s clearly a black bezel around the phone and that very ugly notch, then the camera bump really and they want at least $1000 for this 64 gigs it’s time to take a stand and say no.
Double B.S. So go ahead and sue for false advertising and see how far you get.
So I guess John Gruber and Ken Segall are full of BS too?
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/10/20/its-all-screen I don’t have a problem with the side and bottom edges of the iPhone X being described as “all screen”. It’s not the same as Samsung’s Galaxy Edge sides, but I dislike the way those Edge phones look when I hold them. If there were no notch — that is to say, if the top of the iPhone X looked exactly like the bottom — I would have no problem declaring that “all screen” would be a fair description.
But with the notch? No way. Here’s one simple way to think about it: what does Apple do 2-3 years from now if they ship an iPhone with no notch? Describe it as “Really all screen this time”?
Yes. Definitely yes.
The concrete thinking and semantics behind all the whining about the notch is ridiculous. And while gruber is generally a very excellent Apple blogger (while also, sadly, a sloppy political blogger), he’s not omnipotent when it comes to Apple.
It’s the same ridiculous argument when it comes to the camera bump. There’re some very clear limitations dictated by physics and current technology that are an important part of the equation.
What would you have Apple do? Create an assymetrical forehead-only phone and market it as “almost bezelless” or “almost all screen”?
What about when the notch appears on the iPad, or the MacBook. Are the same people going to whine about the screen not being “all screen” or not really a ‘full 13” or 15’?
I don’t know what’s motivating all the whining, other than the concrete thinking I noted above. My guess is that it’s more people trying to find something about Apple to pick at so they can be proud of themselves for being “objective.”
Perhaps what’s motivating it is some people really don’t like the notch and would prefer a smaller top and bottom bezel to it. Honestly I’m not a fan of the look below. Also since Apple did have to change the UI to accommodate the notch why not finally offer dark mode? That certainly would help the notch blend in better. I’ve seen a few posts on twitter from people who are devs or have spoken with some and designing for/around the notch is proving to be quite difficult. I’ll make a prediction right now: when X reviews drop no one is going to say they finally get the notch; reviewers are going to hate it and wish that Apple had gone the route of Samsung or LG. The notch might be distinctive but not in a good way.
I love Apple but I’m tired of them saying the iPhone X is full screen there’s clearly a black bezel around the phone and that very ugly notch, then the camera bump really and they want at least $1000 for this 64 gigs it’s time to take a stand and say no.
Soon to be duplicated by Scamscum. Whine much?
Haha no one except maybe some unknown Chinese knockoff is going to copy the notch. If anything the X successor will copy LG or Samsung if Apple can’t figure out how to get the camera tech behind the display.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (until it gets molded by social norms, at least.) The X is as 'full screen' as it gets with current technology, and I never even consider the bump an issue with aesthetics, but then I have a case on my phone anyway. Regardless, everyone is free to like/dislike the phone as they wish and make their own purchase decision.
I do find this article’s premise odd given the reports of poor iPhone 8 sales. Evidently a lot of people are intending to buy but just not intending to buy an iPhone 8?
Regarding judging people's posts based on their forum 'age,' I find that rather small minded. Likewise, even though this is generally a 'pro-Apple' web site, everyone should be entitled to his/her opinion. Speaking negatively about an Apple product is not the same as being a troll. Apple's products are great, but they have their flaws, and being an apologist who can't admit to flaws is in some ways tantamount to being a 'reverse troll.'
I love Apple but I’m tired of them saying the iPhone X is full screen there’s clearly a black bezel around the phone and that very ugly notch, then the camera bump really and they want at least $1000 for this 64 gigs it’s time to take a stand and say no.
I am tired of people saying it is not full screen just because of 1mm ‘bezel’ to protect your screen from gripping hand. I am tired of people parroting trolls in this forum. I am tired of all of these newbies popping out of nowhere and talking like a dumb clown (sorry, Pennywise) in the forum.
1) It's not fullscreen because of the notch. You can argue that it's "close enough" but the components will shrink and the notch will shrink but Apple can't then market it as fullerscreen. Plus, they've had issues with false advertising in the UK so I'm surprised to see they're saying "It’s all screen."
2) Your excuse that the bezel is to "protect your screen from gripping hand" makes no sense. You can say that they need a slight bezel because of the physics of durability, but don't suggest it's because of accidental input so they made it artificially larger than it could've been.
Perception is a wonderful thing, few people have the same experience. Is it a notch out of the screen or is it two extra bits of screen above and below the notch?
I may not call it "all screen" but I do think it's a great advancement in utility. I personally see it as extra display which allows the user to have more usable space instead of a status bar as well as the vast amount area now used by display instead of the chin and forehead. This has increased the usable display area considerably, but I also wouldn't say it's a 5.8" display in technical discussion unless referencing the box form in some way since the measurement goes beyond the curved corners to meet where the axes would meet if they met at 90° angles.
I love Apple but I’m tired of them saying the iPhone X is full screen there’s clearly a black bezel around the phone and that very ugly notch, then the camera bump really and they want at least $1000 for this 64 gigs it’s time to take a stand and say no.
I am tired of people saying it is not full screen just because of 1mm ‘bezel’ to protect your screen from gripping hand. I am tired of people parroting trolls in this forum. I am tired of all of these newbies popping out of nowhere and talking like a dumb clown (sorry, Pennywise) in the forum.
2) Your excuse that the bezel is to "protect your screen from gripping hand" makes no sense. You can say that they need a slight bezel because of the physics of durability, but don't suggest it's because of accidental input so they made it artificially larger than it could've been.
So how do you know that it isn't for that reason, if at least partially? Accidental input detection is not perfect, even on my new iPad Pro, and it seems reasonable that one reason for the bezel is to give a slight gripping surface off-screen. Since I'm not on the design team or a part of Apple's development process I really don't know, but neither do you. It doesn't seem outlandish at all.
1) Because it's obvious that a fraction of a mm isn't going to make a difference when you consider the size and number point of a hand gripping a device. It's like worrying about the mass of an atom by adding up the electrons but not considering the nucleus.
2) Do you honestly believe that they couldn't make the device get closer to the edge because of SW or do you think that it's actually the physics of the display tech and casing durability?
1) considering neither of us have held it on our hands I don’t find anything about your guesses obvious whatsoever.
2) I know from personal experience palm detection isn’t yet perfected on the latest ipad pro, so no, I don’t think the software is perfect yet. Like most things I believe there are multiple factors at play and that nothing is as simple as those who aren’t involved in building products say they are.
I've never held a lot of things and yet I can tell you certain things are absolute because I live in the here and now where there's known technologies and natural laws.
Ok, so what specific "natural laws" make it "obvious" that it makes "no sense" that the physical bezel around the touch screen may indeed be helpful in the usability and prevention of accidental edge taps?
Sorry dude but you're just talking out of your ass on this one. You simply do not now, and the fact that you've never even seen or touched the device doesn't help your position of faux authority on the matter.
1) If the iPad Pro's bezel are already "too thin" to keep accidental touches from happening it would mean that the really "too thin" on every iPhone and iPod Touch that has ever existed. That's not the case, so it can't be anecdotal claim.
2) You can't the display go completely to the edge without there being structure supports for the display in its casing. If you can explain to me how a display could extend beyond a display that would be something, but you can't, because this is reality. Why completely ignore that the device needs to have structure integrity? Why ignore that even devices you don't touch, like TVs, have bezels? Are you really going to pull out a facile "because of palm recognize" for that, too? You still haven't made a cogent rebuttal as to why an additional .01mm of bezel is going to affect palm recognition at all. You simply can't because it's about the limitation of useable technologies, like a bendable OLED display) and physics (being able to create a structure that can be contain a display and glass cover in a casing that won't fall apart).
3) Are you also going to argue that they coudn't have made the chin and forehead smaller because of accidental touches, because I'd really love to see that.
4) You honestly think Apple is such a piece of company that they don't consider the structural integrity fo their devices? Did you not see when idiots went out of their way to bend the new iPhone that had a much wider footprint with a thickness about the same as before, which meant it was now possible to bend it with considerable force, thereby forcing them to use an even strong aluminium alloy to deal with a stupid problem? I do, and maybe I'm wrong that you do as well because if had seem that then you'd understand that material science isn't a fucking myth. You know this so stop implying that the structure of the device is not only at play, but the only obvious option.
Christ you have anger issues man. It makes discussion with you tiresome because your insane ego and need to be right get in the way. Usually a problem for the trolls to deal with but not this time.
Anyway, ignoring all of your ego planking, I’m not going to argue structural integrity topics because I never made any claims about them. I do know however that accidental touches is still an issue, and used the non-perfect palm detection on the iPad as a similar example. Having a non-screen edge to the display gives the touch-inducing hands and fingers something to rest on other than the touch-receiving display. Until you can provide some sort of evidence or interview content where they say that’s completely a non-issue and played absolutely no role in their design, I’m perfectly fine believing this was at least part of the reason for keeping a non-screen edge to the display. Your guesses are no better than mine.
I predict that sales are not anemic. This is a classic repeat of the whole controversy, when many were incorrectly claiming that "the iPhone 5C isn't selling well." That phone turned out to be a very solid seller, consistently over time. Same thing here. The current lineup will drive both sales and margins to record highs. Accounts to the contrary, again in my opinion, are either ignorant or willfully misleading. Secret of the stock market = buy low + sell high.
If the 5C was such a hit why did they stop making it, Why did they drop the colored polycarbonate body. Because by Apple's standards it was a failure. They kept it around one more year to finish out the manufacturing run. Otherwise we would have had a polycarbonate body on a 6C or 7C.
I love Apple but I’m tired of them saying the iPhone X is full screen there’s clearly a black bezel around the phone and that very ugly notch, then the camera bump really and they want at least $1000 for this 64 gigs it’s time to take a stand and say no.
Double B.S. So go ahead and sue for false advertising and see how far you get.
So I guess John Gruber and Ken Segall are full of BS too?
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/10/20/its-all-screen I don’t have a problem with the side and bottom edges of the iPhone X being described as “all screen”. It’s not the same as Samsung’s Galaxy Edge sides, but I dislike the way those Edge phones look when I hold them. If there were no notch — that is to say, if the top of the iPhone X looked exactly like the bottom — I would have no problem declaring that “all screen” would be a fair description.
But with the notch? No way. Here’s one simple way to think about it: what does Apple do 2-3 years from now if they ship an iPhone with no notch? Describe it as “Really all screen this time”?
Yes. Definitely yes.
The concrete thinking and semantics behind all the whining about the notch is ridiculous. And while gruber is generally a very excellent Apple blogger (while also, sadly, a sloppy political blogger), he’s not omnipotent when it comes to Apple.
It’s the same ridiculous argument when it comes to the camera bump. There’re some very clear limitations dictated by physics and current technology that are an important part of the equation.
What would you have Apple do? Create an assymetrical forehead-only phone and market it as “almost bezelless” or “almost all screen”?
What about when the notch appears on the iPad, or the MacBook. Are the same people going to whine about the screen not being “all screen” or not really a ‘full 13” or 15’?
I don’t know what’s motivating all the whining, other than the concrete thinking I noted above. My guess is that it’s more people trying to find something about Apple to pick at so they can be proud of themselves for being “objective.”
Perhaps what’s motivating it is some people really don’t like the notch and would prefer a smaller top and bottom bezel to it. Honestly I’m not a fan of the look below. Also since Apple did have to change the UI to accommodate the notch why not finally offer dark mode? That certainly would help the notch blend in better. I’ve seen a few posts on twitter from people who are devs or have spoken with some and designing for/around the notch is proving to be quite difficult. I’ll make a prediction right now: when X reviews drop no one is going to say they finally get the notch; reviewers are going to hate it and wish that Apple had gone the route of Samsung or LG. The notch might be distinctive but not in a good way.
You know as well as anyone that self satisfied bloggers and tech heads are going to find any reason to smirk at and bash on Apple for their own self-aggrandizement. Until I hear an argument that goes beyond concrete thinking and subjective opinion it seems very clear that the complaining about the notch is ridiculous.
I love Apple but I’m tired of them saying the iPhone X is full screen there’s clearly a black bezel around the phone and that very ugly notch, then the camera bump really and they want at least $1000 for this 64 gigs it’s time to take a stand and say no.
Double B.S. So go ahead and sue for false advertising and see how far you get.
So I guess John Gruber and Ken Segall are full of BS too?
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/10/20/its-all-screen I don’t have a problem with the side and bottom edges of the iPhone X being described as “all screen”. It’s not the same as Samsung’s Galaxy Edge sides, but I dislike the way those Edge phones look when I hold them. If there were no notch — that is to say, if the top of the iPhone X looked exactly like the bottom — I would have no problem declaring that “all screen” would be a fair description.
But with the notch? No way. Here’s one simple way to think about it: what does Apple do 2-3 years from now if they ship an iPhone with no notch? Describe it as “Really all screen this time”?
Yes. Definitely yes.
The concrete thinking and semantics behind all the whining about the notch is ridiculous. And while gruber is generally a very excellent Apple blogger (while also, sadly, a sloppy political blogger), he’s not omnipotent when it comes to Apple.
It’s the same ridiculous argument when it comes to the camera bump. There’re some very clear limitations dictated by physics and current technology that are an important part of the equation.
What would you have Apple do? Create an assymetrical forehead-only phone and market it as “almost bezelless” or “almost all screen”?
What about when the notch appears on the iPad, or the MacBook. Are the same people going to whine about the screen not being “all screen” or not really a ‘full 13” or 15’?
I don’t know what’s motivating all the whining, other than the concrete thinking I noted above. My guess is that it’s more people trying to find something about Apple to pick at so they can be proud of themselves for being “objective.”
If any other vendor said that their display's entire front was "all screen" I don't think you or others would hesitate on taking them to task for what clearly isn't "all screen." It's a lot more screen for the given footprint, and it certainly removes the chin and forehead as the screen do roll up the sides over onto the top edge, but it's factually not "all screen." I don't understand why anyone would ignore these areas of the front face—not even including the footprint that shows a much greater 2D area of not being all screen when looking down or the actually statement that "it's all screen" to claim the entire front is "all screen." Why not say that it's as close as you can get right now while still using amazing new technologies, like Face ID, and leave it at that? That doesn't take away from the engineering that went into the device, its appeal, or how everyone else is going to scramble to follow Apple into the future… yet again.
I appreciate your attempt to read my mind.. and make it up for me.. but I’m afraid you’re mistaken. Your response seems to suggest that my points about the motivation behind the nitpicking are correct.
Comments
I do find this article’s premise odd given the reports of poor iPhone 8 sales. Evidently a lot of people are intending to buy but just not intending to buy an iPhone 8?
Regarding judging people's posts based on their forum 'age,' I find that rather small minded. Likewise, even though this is generally a 'pro-Apple' web site, everyone should be entitled to his/her opinion. Speaking negatively about an Apple product is not the same as being a troll. Apple's products are great, but they have their flaws, and being an apologist who can't admit to flaws is in some ways tantamount to being a 'reverse troll.'
Anyway, ignoring all of your ego planking, I’m not going to argue structural integrity topics because I never made any claims about them. I do know however that accidental touches is still an issue, and used the non-perfect palm detection on the iPad as a similar example. Having a non-screen edge to the display gives the touch-inducing hands and fingers something to rest on other than the touch-receiving display. Until you can provide some sort of evidence or interview content where they say that’s completely a non-issue and played absolutely no role in their design, I’m perfectly fine believing this was at least part of the reason for keeping a non-screen edge to the display. Your guesses are no better than mine.
mind.. and make it up for me.. but I’m afraid you’re mistaken. Your response seems to suggest that my points about the motivation behind the nitpicking are correct.