I'm actually interested in this if the sound quality is good enough. I'm having trouble convincing the family of the need to have a 'stereo system' in our main living area, but I'm sick of iPad speakers being the main mode of music listening. I *think* (slightly high cost aside) I can sell this thing and at least redeem a speck of my audiophile soul.
That said, I have like next to no need for any kind of home 'smart' speaker. While my trust in Apple is eroding, I *think* I can at least trust Apple to not be spying on me like Amazon or Google. I suppose voice command to turn volume up/down or pick tracks would be nice, but beyond that, I don't really care about the rest besides good sound.
Frankly, it does not seem like a product that Steve Jobs would have produced because it doesn't do much, if anything, to improve people's lives. [...] a toy [...]
As the years go by, I'm still amazed that people will say/write this stuff out loud prior to new Apple product releases with no fear of ending up with their foot lodged squarely in their mouth.
What I'd really like to do with HomePods, apart from playing music on them, is to use a pair of them as TV speakers for an Apple TV setup. It's always seemed a waste to me to need two sound systems in my living room, one for music playback, and one for the TV. I realize that for audiophiles, and for home cinema fans, having two speaker systems, whether or not they're fed from the same receiver/amp, is the way to go, but for ordinary mortals like me, having one reasonably high-quality speaker pair serving both use-cases would be pretty compelling.
If this was possible I would buy two immediately. Turning the TV on just to listen to some music is cumbersome.
I doubt it will be possible though. I live in a strange corner of the world where basically I have Siri in italian on my iPhone, AppleWatch, iPad but NOT on my AppleTV. Don't ask me why, because I honestly don't understand Apple on this one. Anyway... I hope Siri on HomePod is really good (good as in "I can say a sentence in italian and the name of the band in english (mind you, I don't speak with a "heavy italian accent"). Really good as in "it reacts fast to HomeKit requests ("Hey Siri, turn the dining table lamps on at 50%).
I would not even dream of a Siri that does more, like 2 HomeKit actions at once "hey Siri turn the dining table off and the sleeping room on at 50%".
So, given the choice between speakers for AppleTV and a good Siri I would go for a good Siri anytime.
Why do you have to turn on the TV to listen to music? Why not get an old Airport Express (compact, 'n' variant) for like $20 (or whatever you can find them for in Italy) and AirPlay to that? They still work great, I have four in my house.
The problem is that I have very little faith in Siri. It fails too much (even after 6-7 years in development, pretty terrible). The other day I tried 8 times to play the New Music Mix playlist on Apple Music. I tried 8 different permutations of what I thought would get Apple to play it, and it kept giving me crap every time. I tried it again just now, and it works now, but I wouldn't have even bothered trying again if I weren't writing this comment. When siri fails at such simple things, even with multiple tries, I end up giving up, and I know I'm not the only one.
On the watch it's much worse (using series 2). 1) It's much slower, and 2) 1/3 of the time I get some bullshit "I'll tap you when I'm ready" (I've never been tapped when it's ready before, ever) or some other delay comment. This is independent of me being on cellular via my phone or home wifi (and 99.9% of the time my phone is well within range). I use homekit multiple times every day. I've given up on even trying with my Apple watch. I go look for my phone x and hold down the home button. It's shouldn't have to be that way.
Hmm. I literally just now raised my Watch (S1), said 'Hey, Siri, add coffee to my Shopping list', it paused for a second or two (this part varies just a bit usually) then displayed what I said exactly, then showed me that it had created the Reminder. Then I tapped my iPhone X on my desk, glanced at it to unlock, and said "Hey Siri, play my new music mix" and it immediately started playing with a button to go to Apple Music. I cannot remember the last time I saw "I'll tap you when I'm ready" on my watch, and honestly I think in the past I had better voice recognition results on my Watch than my older phones, maybe not so much on my X now. The only time I've had to hold the Siri button down on my X is when I was having her add up a long list of numbers, and she'd often cut me off and give me results if I paused for too long — holding prevents her from jumping the gun.
I remember a thread I think on MR where someone was complaining about Siri not working, but I realized after discussing for a while that he was giving the most syntactically bizarre commands that confused the hell out of Siri. If you're using commands in the exact way that Siri expects them, it works well. If you go too far off the beaten path, you're going to have a bad time. Siri's like a dog that can follow the same basic orders it knows given a certain syntax, but if you start talking to it like a person, it's going to stare at you with its head cocked trying to decipher what the hell you're talking about.
And if that's not it, then I honestly think you have a hardware problem — my Watch isn't as fast as my iPhone, but its accuracy has always been quite good. Haha I just asked my Watch what time it was, and Siri said, "It's Hammertime!" (followed by the actual time). My iPhone was faster (no pause in showing what I said), but gave me a much more boring response. Odd.
I'm actually interested in this if the sound quality is good enough. I'm having trouble convincing the family of the need to have a 'stereo system' in our main living area, but I'm sick of iPad speakers being the main mode of music listening. I *think* (slightly high cost aside) I can sell this thing and at least redeem a speck of my audiophile soul.
That said, I have like next to no need for any kind of home 'smart' speaker. While my trust in Apple is eroding, I *think* I can at least trust Apple to not be spying on me like Amazon or Google. I suppose voice command to turn volume up/down or pick tracks would be nice, but beyond that, I don't really care about the rest besides good sound.
Good god, man — iPad speakers? Just get a decent set of bluetooth bookshelf speakers, or a cheap used Airport Express and some desktop/bookshelf speakers with an 1/8" jack and call it good, and you'll be a world happier than listening to little mobile device speakers.
Its USP is ROFL, B/C ISP's Mbps is < most IOT's & HD H.264 content combined demands. This will cause major WTF, & RTFM's. Only IEEE 802.11ac on a sandboxed VLAN will save us all.
What’s it’s USP? There has to be a fundamental reason to its delay. Surely all thT processing power is there for something special?
Siri is still way behind Alexa, crack Siri and it’s a winner, also enabling open source apps is a must. I love it but i’m Out until it makes a compelling case.
Do you actually use any of these voice assistant devices? I do!!!! Siri is not way behind. Alexa is far from better. Personally, I think the Apple Watch which can do pretty ..... <br><br>
Interesting points. I haven't done any comparisons to competitors, but Siri has been incredibly frustrating for me, especially on the watch, which should be Apple's answer to the mini smart speaker competitors. Even though I plan to get a homepod, or two, my expectations for them being any more than interesting sounding speakers are very low.
The problem is that I have very little faith in Siri. It fails too much (even after 6-7 years in development, pretty terrible). The other day I tried 8 times to play the New Music Mix playlist on Apple Music. I tried 8 different permutations of what I thought would get Apple to play it, and it kept giving me crap every time. I tried it again just now, and it works now, but I wouldn't have even bothered trying again if I weren't writing this comment. When siri fails at such simple things, even with multiple tries, I end up giving up, and I know I'm not the only one.
On the watch it's much worse (using series 2). 1) It's much slower, and 2) 1/3 of the time I get some bullshit "I'll tap you when I'm ready" (I've never been tapped when it's ready before, ever) or some other delay comment. This is independent of me being on cellular via my phone or home wifi (and 99.9% of the time my phone is well within range). I use homekit multiple times every day. I've given up on even trying with my Apple watch. I go look for my phone x and hold down the home button. It's shouldn't have to be that way.
Yeh, I agree. One of the most frustrating things about Apple's Siri is how it is unable to answer queries on Apple products and their use:
"Siri, How do I exclude explicit music from my iPhone?" Returns a web search of that question -- none of which actually answer the question. I tells you how to do it an Droid or a Mac, but not an iPhone -- which seems that it should be able to do...
Frankly, it does not seem like a product that Steve Jobs would have produced because it doesn't do much, if anything, to improve people's lives. [...] a toy [...]
As the years go by, I'm still amazed that people will say/write this stuff out loud prior to new Apple product releases with no fear of ending up with their foot lodged squarely in their mouth.
LOL... So Apple has never, and will never develop a product that flops? Really?
Your faith in Apple is admirable. But not even Steve carried that level of faith in his company.
But, for this HomePod: While the product itself may survive I don't see it having much future simply because of its limited contribution to making people's lives better: As a music device, it is much better than an iPhone speaker but far worse than an actual audio system. As a voice assistant, it seems more like a toy -- particularly when I wear that same assistant on my wrist where it is always available even if I am not in the same room as my HomePod.
That said, as IoT develops and expands, I could see some version of a "HomePod" developing as a central point of control. But not in its current iteration.
fastasleep said: Good god, man — iPad speakers? Just get a decent set of bluetooth bookshelf speakers, or a cheap used Airport Express and some desktop/bookshelf speakers with an 1/8" jack and call it good, and you'll be a world happier than listening to little mobile device speakers.
I have some in my office, but my family does this and I'm too often subjected to to it (with cringing ears).
Unfortunately between reconfiguring our homes after moving multiple times... selling much of my music gear and higher end audio equipment... and not replacing things that eventually broke... my best stereo system is now in my car. My other family members don't seem to care much about audio quality, so there is little incentive to set up anything fancy. But, I think I can sell a decent sounding device like this they can all use via Air Play. Yes, we could also hook a set of speakers to an Airport Express, which we've done in the past... but I'm *hoping* this will be better quality (most anything I've looked at under like $200 is pure junk in powered speakers).
GeorgeBMac said: LOL... So Apple has never, and will never develop a product that flops? Really?
Your faith in Apple is admirable. But not even Steve carried that level of faith in his company.
But, for this HomePod: While the product itself may survive I don't see it having much future simply because of its limited contribution to making people's lives better: As a music device, it is much better than an iPhone speaker but far worse than an actual audio system. As a voice assistant, it seems more like a toy -- particularly when I wear that same assistant on my wrist where it is always available even if I am not in the same room as my HomePod.
That said, as IoT develops and expands, I could see some version of a "HomePod" developing as a central point of control. But not in its current iteration.
I agree with your sentiment on Apple (they have products that flop), but not necessarily the HomePod. The problem is that the quality of the competition is pretty bad in terms of the main purpose of a speaker... sound quality. The 'assistant' aspect is better, but do people really need home assistants anyway? That seems more like a novelty aside from actually controlling the speaker and what it plays, which Siri might be able to pull off.
I suppose IoT and home control and such will someday be important and even useful, but currently, it's more along the lines of 3D TV (a novelty). It's important for Apple to get in that game, though.
Frankly, it does not seem like a product that Steve Jobs would have produced because it doesn't do much, if anything, to improve people's lives. [...] a toy [...]
As the years go by, I'm still amazed that people will say/write this stuff out loud prior to new Apple product releases with no fear of ending up with their foot lodged squarely in their mouth.
LOL... So Apple has never, and will never develop a product that flops? Really?
Your faith in Apple is admirable. But not even Steve carried that level of faith in his company.
But, for this HomePod: While the product itself may survive I don't see it having much future simply because of its limited contribution to making people's lives better: As a music device, it is much better than an iPhone speaker but far worse than an actual audio system. As a voice assistant, it seems more like a toy -- particularly when I wear that same assistant on my wrist where it is always available even if I am not in the same room as my HomePod.
That said, as IoT develops and expands, I could see some version of a "HomePod" developing as a central point of control. But not in its current iteration.
So you've already used it then and can say all of these things with certainty.
I am not saying they are infallible, but every time they enter a new category, which this really is, the naysayers are extra vocal about how it'll flop, how nobody needs xyz, someone else already does it better, it's too expensive, too limited, too whatever. All these things were said about the iPod. iPhone. iPad. Watch. Guess which of those products are best in their class? All of them.
"far worse than an actual audio system" — as has been pointed out by many others, this is not meant to replace a hi-fi sound system. It does sound like it may be a great solution as a pair in a small apartment though, or for single use in smaller rooms, offices, bedrooms, etc. I was about to get another set of bookshelf/desktop speakers and an old Express to put in my kitchen to stream audio to, as right now I have a bluetooth speaker made by TDK that I use to listen to TuneIn Radio on from my iPhone every single day in the nearby bathroom, and it's not ideal when in the kitchen. I'm going to order the fuck out of one of these HomePods instead to live in my kitchen instead. These are the things it's competing with, where people would toss a bluetooth speaker (or an Echo now) etc, not where my Sony receiver and 100lb Cerwin Vega cabinets with 12" woofers live.
fastasleep said: Good god, man — iPad speakers? Just get a decent set of bluetooth bookshelf speakers, or a cheap used Airport Express and some desktop/bookshelf speakers with an 1/8" jack and call it good, and you'll be a world happier than listening to little mobile device speakers.
I have some in my office, but my family does this and I'm too often subjected to to it (with cringing ears).
Unfortunately between reconfiguring our homes after moving multiple times... selling much of my music gear and higher end audio equipment... and not replacing things that eventually broke... my best stereo system is now in my car. My other family members don't seem to care much about audio quality, so there is little incentive to set up anything fancy. But, I think I can sell a decent sounding device like this they can all use via Air Play. Yes, we could also hook a set of speakers to an Airport Express, which we've done in the past... but I'm *hoping* this will be better quality (most anything I've looked at under like $200 is pure junk in powered speakers).
GeorgeBMac said: LOL... So Apple has never, and will never develop a product that flops? Really?
Your faith in Apple is admirable. But not even Steve carried that level of faith in his company.
But, for this HomePod: While the product itself may survive I don't see it having much future simply because of its limited contribution to making people's lives better: As a music device, it is much better than an iPhone speaker but far worse than an actual audio system. As a voice assistant, it seems more like a toy -- particularly when I wear that same assistant on my wrist where it is always available even if I am not in the same room as my HomePod.
That said, as IoT develops and expands, I could see some version of a "HomePod" developing as a central point of control. But not in its current iteration.
I agree with your sentiment on Apple (they have products that flop), but not necessarily the HomePod. The problem is that the quality of the competition is pretty bad in terms of the main purpose of a speaker... sound quality. The 'assistant' aspect is better, but do people really need home assistants anyway? That seems more like a novelty aside from actually controlling the speaker and what it plays, which Siri might be able to pull off.
I suppose IoT and home control and such will someday be important and even useful, but currently, it's more along the lines of 3D TV (a novelty). It's important for Apple to get in that game, though.
I agree. Particularly with: "It's important for Apple to get in that game, though."
I strongly suspect that that is the whole motivation for Apple entering this market... Just as "labor saving devices" - mostly from Westinghouse and GE -- revolutionized the home and homekeeping in the 50's & 60's, technology is reaching a similar tipping point of 'home automation' today.
GeorgeBMac said: Just as "labor saving devices" - mostly from Westinghouse and GE -- revolutionized the home and homekeeping in the 50's & 60's, technology is reaching a similar tipping point of 'home automation' today.
Maybe, though we're certainly in the pre-Model-T days of it though. When we bought our house (which required substantial remodeling), I wanted to (being a tech geek) integrate some 'smart home' stuff. But, after actually looking into it, it was too high priced and not well thought out to even bother with. I suppose it will get there someday. Give it a decade or two and then take another look.
GeorgeBMac said: Just as "labor saving devices" - mostly from Westinghouse and GE -- revolutionized the home and homekeeping in the 50's & 60's, technology is reaching a similar tipping point of 'home automation' today.
Maybe, though we're certainly in the pre-Model-T days of it though. When we bought our house (which required substantial remodeling), I wanted to (being a tech geek) integrate some 'smart home' stuff. But, after actually looking into it, it was too high priced and not well thought out to even bother with. I suppose it will get there someday. Give it a decade or two and then take another look.
Yeh, sadly, I have to agree. The products available today are mostly expensive, clunky toys that are tacked onto existing products...
But the technology, I think, is there for a Steve Jobs to develop it into a system that improves people's lives.
Comments
That said, I have like next to no need for any kind of home 'smart' speaker. While my trust in Apple is eroding, I *think* I can at least trust Apple to not be spying on me like Amazon or Google. I suppose voice command to turn volume up/down or pick tracks would be nice, but beyond that, I don't really care about the rest besides good sound.
Why do you have to turn on the TV to listen to music? Why not get an old Airport Express (compact, 'n' variant) for like $20 (or whatever you can find them for in Italy) and AirPlay to that? They still work great, I have four in my house.
Hmm. I literally just now raised my Watch (S1), said 'Hey, Siri, add coffee to my Shopping list', it paused for a second or two (this part varies just a bit usually) then displayed what I said exactly, then showed me that it had created the Reminder. Then I tapped my iPhone X on my desk, glanced at it to unlock, and said "Hey Siri, play my new music mix" and it immediately started playing with a button to go to Apple Music. I cannot remember the last time I saw "I'll tap you when I'm ready" on my watch, and honestly I think in the past I had better voice recognition results on my Watch than my older phones, maybe not so much on my X now. The only time I've had to hold the Siri button down on my X is when I was having her add up a long list of numbers, and she'd often cut me off and give me results if I paused for too long — holding prevents her from jumping the gun.
I remember a thread I think on MR where someone was complaining about Siri not working, but I realized after discussing for a while that he was giving the most syntactically bizarre commands that confused the hell out of Siri. If you're using commands in the exact way that Siri expects them, it works well. If you go too far off the beaten path, you're going to have a bad time. Siri's like a dog that can follow the same basic orders it knows given a certain syntax, but if you start talking to it like a person, it's going to stare at you with its head cocked trying to decipher what the hell you're talking about.
And if that's not it, then I honestly think you have a hardware problem — my Watch isn't as fast as my iPhone, but its accuracy has always been quite good. Haha I just asked my Watch what time it was, and Siri said, "It's Hammertime!" (followed by the actual time). My iPhone was faster (no pause in showing what I said), but gave me a much more boring response. Odd.
"Siri, How do I exclude explicit music from my iPhone?"
Returns a web search of that question -- none of which actually answer the question. I tells you how to do it an Droid or a Mac, but not an iPhone -- which seems that it should be able to do...
Your faith in Apple is admirable. But not even Steve carried that level of faith in his company.
But, for this HomePod: While the product itself may survive I don't see it having much future simply because of its limited contribution to making people's lives better: As a music device, it is much better than an iPhone speaker but far worse than an actual audio system. As a voice assistant, it seems more like a toy -- particularly when I wear that same assistant on my wrist where it is always available even if I am not in the same room as my HomePod.
That said, as IoT develops and expands, I could see some version of a "HomePod" developing as a central point of control. But not in its current iteration.
Unfortunately between reconfiguring our homes after moving multiple times... selling much of my music gear and higher end audio equipment... and not replacing things that eventually broke... my best stereo system is now in my car.
I agree with your sentiment on Apple (they have products that flop), but not necessarily the HomePod. The problem is that the quality of the competition is pretty bad in terms of the main purpose of a speaker... sound quality. The 'assistant' aspect is better, but do people really need home assistants anyway? That seems more like a novelty aside from actually controlling the speaker and what it plays, which Siri might be able to pull off.
I suppose IoT and home control and such will someday be important and even useful, but currently, it's more along the lines of 3D TV (a novelty). It's important for Apple to get in that game, though.
I am not saying they are infallible, but every time they enter a new category, which this really is, the naysayers are extra vocal about how it'll flop, how nobody needs xyz, someone else already does it better, it's too expensive, too limited, too whatever. All these things were said about the iPod. iPhone. iPad. Watch. Guess which of those products are best in their class? All of them.
"far worse than an actual audio system" — as has been pointed out by many others, this is not meant to replace a hi-fi sound system. It does sound like it may be a great solution as a pair in a small apartment though, or for single use in smaller rooms, offices, bedrooms, etc. I was about to get another set of bookshelf/desktop speakers and an old Express to put in my kitchen to stream audio to, as right now I have a bluetooth speaker made by TDK that I use to listen to TuneIn Radio on from my iPhone every single day in the nearby bathroom, and it's not ideal when in the kitchen. I'm going to order the fuck out of one of these HomePods instead to live in my kitchen instead. These are the things it's competing with, where people would toss a bluetooth speaker (or an Echo now) etc, not where my Sony receiver and 100lb Cerwin Vega cabinets with 12" woofers live.
"It's important for Apple to get in that game, though."
I strongly suspect that that is the whole motivation for Apple entering this market...
Just as "labor saving devices" - mostly from Westinghouse and GE -- revolutionized the home and homekeeping in the 50's & 60's, technology is reaching a similar tipping point of 'home automation' today.
But the technology, I think, is there for a Steve Jobs to develop it into a system that improves people's lives.