Apple's 8 years of iPad: a revolution in iOS computing

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 56
    DAalseth said:
    I'm a writer, actor and artist. I now use my iPad for nearly all of my drawing and other graphics, up through final layup and publishing or printing. I do the first drafts of my writing on the iPad, only moving them to the Mac for detail editing, and preparation for publishing. Last night I was at a script reading and discussion that took over three hours. Everyone else was huddling under lamps in the, not terribly bright room trying to read paper scripts, or trying to balance laptops without pulling the plug out of the wall. I had my iPadPro, with the PDF of the script on it. The battery was at 89% by the end of the evening, the screen was as bright as I needed, and I could bump the font up so I didn't need my reading glasses. 

    Over the years since I got our first iPad 2 I've found that more and more of my work is done on the tablet. My recent upgrade to a 10.5 inch 1Pad Pro and ApplePencil has taken my drawing and painting to another level. iOS11 has added file management and other tools that have greatly improved the productivity of this little tablet. I've been lugging laptops around for years, starting with my "Wallstreet" PowerBook. Before that I even had one of those backpacks to carry my Mac Classic from place to place. The iPad is so small, thin, and light, that it's trivial to carry along. That means it's always with me, at home, at night, in my office at my (real) job. I can make quick notes whenever something hits me. Do a fast sketch when I get an idea. I even use it for my paid work. The tools the gave me to crate things like instruction sheets, or diagrams are terrible. On the occasions that something like that comes up I just quietly pull out the iPad, whip up what I need, and fire it over to the Win10 desktop system at my desk. (It is NOT an Apple Friendly shop. Windows and Android only.)

    If things keep going like this I can see a future iPad completely replacing my Mac. Not immediately, but incrementally I'm moving more and more of what I do over to the little marvel.
    I have iPad Pro, but still don't use that much as I want. I find your workflow to be close to mine, but I mainly use Macbook Pro. What kind of apps are you using for the work? 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 56
    DED is on point, once again. You have not disappointed.
    magman1979chiawatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 23 of 56
    dachar said:
    Hello Daniel 

    l really enjoy your history of tech development that appears in your articles. Have you ever thought of bring them together in a book about the history of Apple? I think it would be a fascinating to read.
    Thanks for the comment. Yes I should do that :)
    magman1979chiawatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 24 of 56
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,124member
    StoneJack said:
    DAalseth said:
    I'm a writer, actor and artist. I now use my iPad for nearly all of my drawing and other graphics, up through final layup and publishing or printing. I do the first drafts of my writing on the iPad, only moving them to the Mac for detail editing, and preparation for publishing. Last night I was at a script reading and discussion that took over three hours. Everyone else was huddling under lamps in the, not terribly bright room trying to read paper scripts, or trying to balance laptops without pulling the plug out of the wall. I had my iPadPro, with the PDF of the script on it. The battery was at 89% by the end of the evening, the screen was as bright as I needed, and I could bump the font up so I didn't need my reading glasses. 

    Over the years since I got our first iPad 2 I've found that more and more of my work is done on the tablet. My recent upgrade to a 10.5 inch 1Pad Pro and ApplePencil has taken my drawing and painting to another level. iOS11 has added file management and other tools that have greatly improved the productivity of this little tablet. I've been lugging laptops around for years, starting with my "Wallstreet" PowerBook. Before that I even had one of those backpacks to carry my Mac Classic from place to place. The iPad is so small, thin, and light, that it's trivial to carry along. That means it's always with me, at home, at night, in my office at my (real) job. I can make quick notes whenever something hits me. Do a fast sketch when I get an idea. I even use it for my paid work. The tools the gave me to crate things like instruction sheets, or diagrams are terrible. On the occasions that something like that comes up I just quietly pull out the iPad, whip up what I need, and fire it over to the Win10 desktop system at my desk. (It is NOT an Apple Friendly shop. Windows and Android only.)

    If things keep going like this I can see a future iPad completely replacing my Mac. Not immediately, but incrementally I'm moving more and more of what I do over to the little marvel.
    I have iPad Pro, but still don't use that much as I want. I find your workflow to be close to mine, but I mainly use Macbook Pro. What kind of apps are you using for the work? 
    Procreate for freehand drawing and painting. Graphic for vector graphics, annotating photographs, and document layup, signs, cards, instruction sheets. Pages for writing. Yes it's kind of weird but the seamless integration with iCloud makes up for it. I just got LumaFusion to edit video. I'm still learning how to use it. That's the core of my toolset.
    magman1979watto_cobrajony0StoneJack
  • Reply 25 of 56
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,068member
    kimberly said:
    eightzero said:
    I watched the iPad announcement live. Not far in i said to myself, "yeah, I'm buying one of those." I did on launch day. Wasn't disappointed. I eventually moved on to an iPad mini, and use it daily. My wife loves her iPad Pro. 

    I said the same when I saw the Apple Watch reveal. It opened the MacBook Air I'm typing this one. Work I have to do later will be on my iMac. 

    I don't drive nails with a wrench. OTOH, I don't miss my Newton MP100. My recollection was it didn't work real well with my Duo230 (that I wore out in graduate school.)



    I have an iPad Mini too.  I only the use the iPad on the train commuting to work and occasionally watching some Netflix in bed.  Sometimes on the train I need to log in to work (Citrix) and do some troubleshooting on IT infrastructure.  I really wish I could use an Apple Pencil for that activity (more precise).  I don't see many iPad Minis around so little surprise Apple is probably looking at retiring them.
    I have an iPadAir2 and love it (its my third iPad).   I'll buy an iPadPro when the iPadPro has mouse support or I can use the pencil with RDP client.   
    I'm sure Apple will continue to improve the iPad (I love the new dock).   I would love for apple to make an iOS based laptop with mouse, USB-C, and printer support.   
    I'm sure that will come in some form in the future but probably 5-10 years out.
  • Reply 26 of 56
    thedbathedba Posts: 682member
    For me the iPad has evolved to be the one indispensable computing device at home and for travel.
    The Mac remains my one go to device at work.

    The one place where I think iPad can improve in becoming the only computing device most people will ever need is in evolving its Files app. I do believe that Apple will allow it more freedom eventually especially on the iPad.

    As far as the MS Surface is concerned I respectfully disagree with Tim Cook’s Refrigerator-Toaster remark. I think a more accurate parallel would be toaster-oven. It can definitely toast your bread and maybe even cook small dinner plates. But don’t ever expect it to cook your Thanksgiving turkey.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 56
    As far as education, I read somewhere, that when the iPad is used, whether children w/ autism or Medical students, their education showed improvement. Amazing.

    Best.
    williamlondonmagman1979watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 28 of 56
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,120member
    Eight years ago today…
    Eight years already, huh? Kill me now.

    I still love the first-gen iPad. Daily use for me until the launch of the first-gen 13” Pro. The design was great and though the weight certainly could’ve been improved (I went from 1.5 pounds to 1.5 pounds between my two models, so I don’t have much experience with the others), the thickness allowed me to feel like it wouldn’t snap if I wasn’t overly careful. I liked the wider side bezels a lot, but I also appreciate how the new models are now narrow enough for me to hold with one hand from the back in portrait mode. Regardless of the falloff in sales, regardless of Apple’s apparent refusal to push the iPad in educational settings, and regardless of the stupidity in creating a smaller one, the iPad will be forever remembered as the first tablet that mattered and the first wave of modern multitouch devices (the iPhone is the banner carrier/herald).
    I don’t think it was stupid to produce the mini. There was a price umbrella for competitors and Apple closed it. Personally I liked the size and use one still, in addition to the 10” pro. 
    williamlondonmagman1979watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 29 of 56
    mike1mike1 Posts: 2,999member
    On my second iPad now. Started with an iPad 2. My wife got her own about a month later when I traveled on business and she missed having access to mine. We both upgraded to the 9.7” Pro when it became available. Easily, the most used devices we own. Probably even more than our iPhones. Certainly more than any desktop or laptop computer we’ve ever had. 
    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 56
    hentaiboyhentaiboy Posts: 1,249member
    And with users increasing adopting iPhone X as a more compact phone, we may see a further expansion of users augmenting their phone experience with the larger canvas of iPad.
    Ah nah.

    From CIRP's Q4 2017 report:

    "This follows a trend that customer reception to larger screen size continues to increase. The 6s Plus, 7 Plus and 8 Plus made up 30% of total sales with an additional 20% buying the iPhone X. This means half of iPhones sold in the quarter had screen sizes larger than 4.7-inches, the largest ever share. In terms of company financials, bigger-screened iPhones are also more expensive contributing to higher iPhone ASP and revenue.

    Apple is expected to aggressively expand its larger-screen offerings with the 2018 iPhone lineup. KGI believes the company will introduce a new 6.4-inch OLED ‘iPhone X Plus’, a 6.1-inch LCD cheaper iPhone, and a revision of iPhone X".

  • Reply 31 of 56
    thedba said:
    For me the iPad has evolved to be the one indispensable computing device at home and for travel.
    The Mac remains my one go to device at work.

    The one place where I think iPad can improve in becoming the only computing device most people will ever need is in evolving its Files app. I do believe that Apple will allow it more freedom eventually especially on the iPad.

    As far as the MS Surface is concerned I respectfully disagree with Tim Cook’s Refrigerator-Toaster remark. I think a more accurate parallel would be toaster-oven. It can definitely toast your bread and maybe even cook small dinner plates. But don’t ever expect it to cook your Thanksgiving turkey.

    Refridgerator-Toaster conveys the conflict between opposing objectives. A toaster-oven is/was a popular product because it performed a range of related functions. It is effectively just a small oven that can also toast. 

    Surface can be called a Refridgerator-Toaster because it's trying to be good at a tablet (light, thin, portability with efficient use of battery and mobile power) but also good as a notebook (a good notebook is optimized to be capable of performing desktop apps). What makes one good subtracts from the other. Pulling it apart into a tablet and keyboard gives you a clunky tablet with the connector junk and odd corners that's the wrong size and ratio to be a good tablet. 

    Surface is really a notebook trying to pretend to work as a tablet, which takes way from its value as a notebook. Imagine a Refridgerator heating up slots to make toast: it's that level of design compromise. 

    iPad Pro has superficial similarities,but it intentionally does not do notebook tasks, it just offers a keyboard similar to previous iPads. It doesn't go into a Mac-like notebook mode. It doesn't need an Intel chip or all the RAM etc. It uses a Pencil to do hands-on sketching in a very iPad way. 

    When mocking up an idea, do-it-all hybrid compromise seems like a good objective. But as you start to do the design work, it because obvious why everything needs to be optimized for a specific focus, rather than attempting to do everything for everyone. 
    chiawatto_cobrajony0spheric
  • Reply 32 of 56

    hentaiboy said:
    And with users increasing adopting iPhone X as a more compact phone, we may see a further expansion of users augmenting their phone experience with the larger canvas of iPad.
    Ah nah.

    From CIRP's Q4 2017 report:

    "This follows a trend that customer reception to larger screen size continues to increase. The 6s Plus, 7 Plus and 8 Plus made up 30% of total sales with an additional 20% buying the iPhone X. This means half of iPhones sold in the quarter had screen sizes larger than 4.7-inches, the largest ever share. In terms of company financials, bigger-screened iPhones are also more expensive contributing to higher iPhone ASP and revenue.

    Apple is expected to aggressively expand its larger-screen offerings with the 2018 iPhone lineup. KGI believes the company will introduce a new 6.4-inch OLED ‘iPhone X Plus’, a 6.1-inch LCD cheaper iPhone, and a revision of iPhone X".

    iPhone X is smaller than the Plus models, and its display is less tall, so it doesn't do any of the iPad-like UI conventions of the Plus. That's not an opinion, it's just factually stating things. 

    CHRP can put X in a statistical bucket with Plus and call them "larger than 4.7" but that's irrelevant. The X is similar in size and UI to the standard 6/6s/7/8 iPhone. Whether X buyers are perhaps more likely to buy an iPad is an unknown possibility, but having Apple is putting continued efforts into offering pocketable phones SE, X and is now doing very little to take advantage of the Plus (even erasing some things in iOS 11, like the larger Plus keyboard). 

    Rumors a future. larger X+ don't mean anything. Whether people buy only a Plus and use it for iPad-like things, or alternatively opt for a smaller iPhone and then also buy an iPad isn't that important. But there is a clear trend that iPads are getting ever larger to do new things an iPhone (even a plus) can't. Differentiation. Samsung's huge fablet phones are just the opposite: a Surface-like refrigerator-toaster attempt to make a product that "does everything" by being not really optimized for either role.  
    Soliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 56
    sabonsabon Posts: 133member
    My boss got mad at me when he found out I was using my iPad Pro to VPN into work for administrative and programming work. I asked him why and he basically disrespected the iPad. I asked him why he was so afraid of iPads when it does —everything— that I need to do to VPN into work and he just stammered. It’s the only time I’ve ever seem him speechless.

    Fast forward a year and a half and he broke his collarbone skiing. He struggled for several days to try to lug his laptop. Then I saw that he purchased a Surface Pro which wasn’t much lighter than his laptop. Then I saw him carrying a bag that absolutely was too small for either his laptop or his Surface. 

    What’s in the bag? I asked him and he told me had a meeting and couldn’t talk and hurried off. Later that day I “caught” him with a 12.9” iPad Pro. I laughed and said he had gone to the dark side. He tried to tell me that updates to iOS had “finally” made iPads worth using. “Bullshit”, I told him and brought in my iPad 3 which I hadn’t updated since I bought my 12.9” iPad Pro when it came out. I then showed him that I could do everything he could do on his “new” 12.9” iPad Pro (which was exactly the same as mine) except that it had a smaller screen. 

    Well it has a larger screen, he said. It has the same screen as my iPad Pro and used an older version of iOS when I first got it and VPN’d into work when I needed to. So no recent updates changed anything for VPN. He got mad at me, because I was right, and told me to go away because he had work to do. I just smiled and went back to my desk when I use my personal MacPro laptop to do most of my work (Office 2016 - ugh!!!) and VPN into my work Windows computers when I can’t avoid it.
    macky the mackyjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 56
    BluntBlunt Posts: 224member
    Love the iPad best computing divice ever. Who gives a fuck about critics?
    dewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 56
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,068member

    thedba said:
    For me the iPad has evolved to be the one indispensable computing device at home and for travel.
    The Mac remains my one go to device at work.

    The one place where I think iPad can improve in becoming the only computing device most people will ever need is in evolving its Files app. I do believe that Apple will allow it more freedom eventually especially on the iPad.

    As far as the MS Surface is concerned I respectfully disagree with Tim Cook’s Refrigerator-Toaster remark. I think a more accurate parallel would be toaster-oven. It can definitely toast your bread and maybe even cook small dinner plates. But don’t ever expect it to cook your Thanksgiving turkey.

    Refridgerator-Toaster conveys the conflict between opposing objectives. A toaster-oven is/was a popular product because it performed a range of related functions. It is effectively just a small oven that can also toast. 

    Surface can be called a Refridgerator-Toaster because it's trying to be good at a tablet (light, thin, portability with efficient use of battery and mobile power) but also good as a notebook (a good notebook is optimized to be capable of performing desktop apps). What makes one good subtracts from the other. Pulling it apart into a tablet and keyboard gives you a clunky tablet with the connector junk and odd corners that's the wrong size and ratio to be a good tablet. 

    Surface is really a notebook trying to pretend to work as a tablet, which takes way from its value as a notebook. Imagine a Refridgerator heating up slots to make toast: it's that level of design compromise. 

    iPad Pro has superficial similarities,but it intentionally does not do notebook tasks, it just offers a keyboard similar to previous iPads. It doesn't go into a Mac-like notebook mode. It doesn't need an Intel chip or all the RAM etc. It uses a Pencil to do hands-on sketching in a very iPad way. 

    When mocking up an idea, do-it-all hybrid compromise seems like a good objective. But as you start to do the design work, it because obvious why everything needs to be optimized for a specific focus, rather than attempting to do everything for everyone. 
    One of the great things about the iPad is that you can get cell connection/LTE with every model.   This means that you can develop go anywhere apps for an iPad that is designed to be used without a physical keyboard.   Microsoft only has a couple models with LTE on the website with one of them out of stock after being available for a month.     I've used a surface 3 as a tablet but my patience only allowed me to use it like that for a short because your interaction with it just doesn't flow as nicely as the iPad.
    (The surface 3 was annoyingly slow - slower than my 3 year old iPad 3rd Gen - I can't imagine even the M3/i3 Surface Pro working decently)

    I love the new dock in the iPad, works great even on my iPad Air 2.   I don't think there is enough appreciation of the fact that Apple is now supporting 3 flavors of iOS now (iPad. iPhoneX with FaceID, iPhone with Touch Id interaction).  This probably contributes to software being a little delayed.   That's in addition to support watchOS, tvOS, and macOS.    That said I hope/expect HomePod has a fully operating system on it in order for SIRI to do Voice Recognition of different family members - ideally also adding multi-user support to the next iPadPro.
    chiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 56
    Setting aside that the cited pundits and critics are loathsome braindead clickmongers, it’s worth noting that a common explanation for the drop  in iPad sales is that they work so well people don’t need to buy new ones. Which begs the question of why Apple remains so committed to iPad. Which in turn begs the question of whether Apple’s well-documented year-over-year increases in media revenue (movies, music, books) just might somehow correlate with iPads being the ideal platform for consuming such media. Which just might justify Apple’s long-term commitment to the platform, because they’re making good money off it without increased hardware sales.

    But clearly such an argument is unworthy of punditry or criticism, as Apple making money is last century’s clickbait.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 56
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,877member
    omnicog said:
    Setting aside that the cited pundits and critics are loathsome braindead clickmongers, it’s worth noting that a common explanation for the drop  in iPad sales is that they work so well people don’t need to buy new ones. Which begs the question of why Apple remains so committed to iPad. Which in turn begs the question of whether Apple’s well-documented year-over-year increases in media revenue (movies, music, books) just might somehow correlate with iPads being the ideal platform for consuming such media. Which just might justify Apple’s long-term commitment to the platform, because they’re making good money off it without increased hardware sales.

    But clearly such an argument is unworthy of punditry or criticism, as Apple making money is last century’s clickbait.
    This would make sense Apple have put lots of work in to TV as a platform and bring it to both iPad and device you plug into your TV.
    Yet the iPad runs iOS (with some minor special features) when there is clearly many very good reasons it should have a padOS like the watchOS and tvOS to really expand on the features that would make it shine as a platform.
  • Reply 38 of 56
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,313member
    I love the iPad. It's the biggest leap forward in the field of personal computing devices in the past 50 years, maybe even longer. It bears no resemblance whatsoever in either form or human-machine interaction to any of the machines and physical things that it functionally replaces. It's a portal into my music collection, my book collection, my photo collection, my learning & discovery probe, a single place for my magazine subscriptions, a single point to communicate electronically anywhere in the world, a place to watch TV, movies, and cat videos at my convenience anywhere & anytime, gaming device, document & spreadsheet creator, personal time management, etc., ... just to hit on a few of its highlights. It fits in my hand and doesn't require any peripherals or other inherited claptrap from the days when ancient computing devices like teletypewriters, VT100 terminals, and IBM PC XTs roamed the earth. It's just me and a magic slab of aluminum and glass.

    What's equally impressive about the iPad is what it eliminates and obsoletes. No more stacks of records, audio tapes, VCR tapes & players, CDs and DVDs, news papers, dirty fingers from reading newspapers, trips to the library, fan noise, tangled nests of wires, dedicated computer rooms, etc. Everything that preceded the iPad in the field of personal computing was slithering in the primordial ooze. The iPad raised personal computing out of the swamp and forever changed how we feel about computing and especially computing at a very personal and immersive level.

    I have all of the iPad form factors and the latest 10.5" is definitely the sweet spot for me. The Mini is a remarkable device for ultimate portability but it's a little less immersive than the 9.7" and 10.5" iPads only because it's so small. When I use the Mini I'm compelled to use it in landscape orientation to get a larger display and fonts. I'm tempted to snatch a new Mini 4 before they get discontinued because it may be the last of a breed. The 12.9" Pro (maxi) is a very interesting and powerful device but its jumbo size make it a bit more cumbersome when sitting with it on the sofa. It's kind of like like having a flat screen TV in your lap. I'm more inclined to use the iPad Pro 12.9" on a desk like a traditional desktop computer. But every once in a while I get the urge to use the jumbo on the sofa in portrait orientation to enjoy its glorious acreage of screen space.

    I'm delighted that Apple continues to invest in the iPad product line despite the fact that it is so beyond any competitive offering on the market. Apple could sit on the current iPad designs unchanged for at least 3 years at a time and still be ahead of the pack, but they continue to improve on the iPad nearly every year. Over time I expect the iPad to incorporate additional features that offer additional modes of natural interaction that go far beyond simply touch. The 3D camera technology and AI used in the iPhone X can be taken to a whole new level in the iPad platform. Future iPads coupled with other ambient computing peripherals like the HomePod and AirPods can fundamentally change how we utilize our personal space. Any room can become a media room / home theater / teleconferencing center / telepresence portal - no walls or dedicated gear required. 
    edited January 2018 chiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 56
    mr omr o Posts: 1,046member
    knowitall said:
    It was clearly the best portable computer at the time: only a screen and touch control.
    It still is.
    … and Apple Pencil! It is the perfect companion for the iPad Pro.

    >:x 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 56
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    The article says:
    "
    A primary reason why analysts are so frequently wrong about Apple is that they look at the company through the distorted lens of the status quo, expressed in the generally unsuccessful (either by lack of ambition or giddy credulity) new product attempts of its rivals, or the basic commodity offerings they've been selling on a runway that leads toward lethal price erosion. "

    And THEN the article goes on to do exactly that!   Stating that an iPad is just a big iPod Touch and suggesting that it can never be anything else...
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Then it digs the hole a little deeper with:
    "iPad was broadly seen as a failed attempt to replace the Mac, something it doesn't attempt to do, and which would be foolish for Apple to aspire to do."

    What's that?
    How does Apple's latest iPad commercial end?  Isn't something like:  "WHAT'S A LAPTOP?"
    The article bases its argument on iPads competing, overtaking and becoming Macs.   But Macs have such a tiny market segment, why would they bother?  Instead, they're quite obviously and explicitly going after the Mac's biggest competitor:  laptops.  Believe them when they tell you that!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    And, just to dig a little deeper, it says:
    "
    The key value of iPad is that it delivers a larger canvas for familiar iOS apps"

    Please reference point #1 above:   Analysts fail by looking "
    at the company through the distorted lens of the status quo"
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    No, sorry, Apple is moving on.   Steve created a great product limited only by the technology available at the time and made it the status quo of large screen iPods.   Now rather than sticking with the status quo, Apple is moving on.   Look at almost any IPad ad and they are telling you that very directly.  So, how are they doing that:
    Partly, by producing a very cheap, base level iOS based iPad to take in the casual laptop user.

    But they also took it a step further to go after the hardcore, laptop user of word processing and spreadsheets, etc...  Applications that require efficient and precise control: 
    First they added an external keyboard to the iPad. 
    Then they added a file system

    But, despite Apple's claims that the iPad is a laptop replacement (which the article seemed to ignore), it is still missing a core component of a laptop:  a cursor.  To be a laptop replacement, it must have one for two reasons:  
    Most laptops are used on desks & tables, not laps.  To work efficiently at a desk, you need everything within the reach of a finger.  Manipulating a touch screen laptop is (as Apple has pointed out) cumbersome (to be kind).

    Most laptops are used for
    Web browsing
    Word processing
    Spread sheets

    The iPad is already very good at the first of those.  But, without a cursor, it is cumbersome for the latter two (particularly the last).

    Does adding a cursor make it a hybrid?   Perhaps.   Shrug...  But:
    The "toaster/refrigerator" analogy is a false analogy.   Toasters and refrigerators do opposite things.   iPads and laptops do very similar things.   Adding a cursor to the iPad may make it a hybrid but it doesn't compromise its current abilities in any way.

    Come on Apple!   #GiveUsACursor!




    edited January 2018
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