EU to scrutinize Apple's Shazam takeover on competition concerns from member states

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  • Reply 21 of 41
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,009member
    avon b7 said:

    My guess is that most people who have actually lived in both places would choose the EU as place of permanent residence if they had the choice. That's my experience after having dealt with countless US citizens residing in the EU for work purposes over more than two decades.


    I can speak from my own experience of having lived in the US and in the EU each for about half my life.  Yes, I'd rather live in the EU.
    I wonder how many of the people who criticize the EU so deeply have ever lived here, or even been here.  
    [Deleted User]avon b7
  • Reply 22 of 41
    "While the Android version has hooks for several services like Google Play, Spotify and Deezer, the iOS version is limited mostly to Apple Music, iTunes and Spotify — and many songs may not link to the last of the three, based in Sweden."

    This isn't my experience of Shazam at all, the iOS version I use links to everything the Android version does. I used it a LOT with my Deezer subscription until last year when I got a Spotify subscription again. Only a recent update now seems to know what apps I have on my phone and only offer those services - maybe it's clever, maybe they remove services. I can't be bothered reinstalling deezer to double check.
  • Reply 23 of 41
    croprcropr Posts: 1,080member
    vannygee said:
    Competition in markets is important.
    Tell me what market Shazam is in.  What that market is, Apple isn't currently in it.  Ergo, how can Apple buying Shazam effect competition in that market?
    Think harder and you'll know it
  • Reply 24 of 41
    fred1 said:
    avon b7 said:

    My guess is that most people who have actually lived in both places would choose the EU as place of permanent residence if they had the choice. That's my experience after having dealt with countless US citizens residing in the EU for work purposes over more than two decades.


    I can speak from my own experience of having lived in the US and in the EU each for about half my life.  Yes, I'd rather live in the EU.
    I wonder how many of the people who criticize the EU so deeply have ever lived here, or even been here.  
    They’re American, of course they haven’t lived where they’re complaining about.
    singularity
  • Reply 25 of 41
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member

    crowley said:
    Remind me not to found a company inside the EU.  They make everything difficult.  Shazam is a tiny, niche company and they are throwing around anti-competitiveness concerns?
    Apple paid $400m.  They aren't that tiny and niche.
    1/2000th of the size of Apple.  

    Ok maybe the company isn't technically "tiny" but they are the epitome of niche.
    If you measure every company's value against the value of the largest publically traded company in the world then pretty much everything is going to seem tiny.

    My mum has Shazam on her iPhone.  It's not that niche.
  • Reply 26 of 41
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    vannygee said:
    Competition in markets is important.
    Tell me what market Shazam is in.  What that market is, Apple isn't currently in it.  Ergo, how can Apple buying Shazam effect competition in that market?
    Microsoft weren't in the internet browser business.  Then suddenly they were, and there was a competition problem.
  • Reply 27 of 41
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Can we please not make this into another thread where idiots rant off about the EU and the whole thing descends into nonsense.  It's very boring.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 28 of 41
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,009member
    crowley said:
    Can we please not make this into another thread where idiots rant off about the EU and the whole thing descends into nonsense.  It's very boring.
    👍🏼
  • Reply 29 of 41
    The market obviously is not the one of 'song recognizers', but of 'music streamers', i.e. Apple Music, Spotify, ...
    If Shazam prevents you from adding songs to your Spotify playlists, that's going to be a huge negative impact for Spotify.. 
    EU is right to be vigilant for stuff like that..
    That said, don't think Apple is a bad-faith actor either, so they may come to terms..
    gatorguy
  • Reply 30 of 41
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,505member
    gatorguy said:
    The issue that's reportedly a concern is how Apple's control of the extensive data that comes along with Shazam, combined with what Apple is already collecting from Apple Music might affect smaller competitors. 
    Right, heaven knows we shouldn't have large companies out there collecting data that affects smaller companies.  What's the latest press briefing say?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 41
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,467member
    MacPro said:
    gatorguy said:
    The issue that's reportedly a concern is how Apple's control of the extensive data that comes along with Shazam, combined with what Apple is already collecting from Apple Music might affect smaller competitors. 
    Right, heaven knows we shouldn't have large companies out there collecting data that affects smaller companies.  What's the latest press briefing say?
    You should be able to find it using your favorite search engine. That's where I got it from. 
  • Reply 32 of 41
    The market obviously is not the one of 'song recognizers', but of 'music streamers', i.e. Apple Music, Spotify, ...
    If Shazam prevents you from adding songs to your Spotify playlists, that's going to be a huge negative impact for Spotify.. 
    EU is right to be vigilant for stuff like that..
    That said, don't think Apple is a bad-faith actor either, so they may come to terms..
    Thank you for actually answering my question.  I appreciate the analysis.
  • Reply 33 of 41
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,036member
    vannygee said:
    Competition in markets is important.
    Tell me what market Shazam is in.  What that market is, Apple isn't currently in it.  Ergo, how can Apple buying Shazam effect competition in that market?

    Kind of where my mind went too. I do not really think there were Shazam competitors, Google assistant now does the same things but does not compete, I did not realize that Apple licensed and integrated it into Siri and never used it.

    Back in the day I used Shazam to learn about a new song. It sounds like that Shazam integrates with other apps as well to allow you to discover new songs and artists and listen/buy it on your content provide of choose. The issue today, is competitors in music steaming are loosing because the have a poor business models not because they do not have a Shazam solution. They do not own the content, they have to pay to use it, content owners are not required to license their content to everyone unless they agree to the licensing agreement. For some reason the EU think Shazam is a market requirement for music content delivery. The EU must think that with out Shazam people would not use those other services. The EU is just pissed that there are no big name Internet companies making Billions in the EU.

    With that said, the EU for the last 10 or 15 yrs has been putting their thumb on acquisition, similar to the FTC in the US has done for the last 100 yrs. The EU has interfered with more deals than the US has in the recent past. China is starting to do that same thing, but they seem more selective and focus on whether a change create more or less jobs in China.
  • Reply 34 of 41
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,036member
    fred1 said:
    And the Euro-bashing begins just like it does every time there’s a story about the EU trying to limit monopolies and maintain competition. But it’s normal when the only news sources you read are from the US. The US has been afraid of the EU for many years because it sees it as a threat, both ecomical and political.  Wake up folks!

    Austria - have you ever even been to Austria? Have you ever met anyone from there? It’s a country where a lot is happening and you really should learn something about it before you revile it. 

    Turkey???  Yea, well, Japan has territorial disputes with S. Korea and Russia but I don’t see how Turkey or Japan has anything to do with the subject of this article. 

    Another enlightening set of comments on AI. 

    Unlike lots of people I have traveled outside the US, and the things I look at,  does those countries buy American products. In the US you can see products from all over the world, the US generally does not force companies to do business in a particular way or they can not do business in the US. The EU create trade barriers, which make it more costly for US companies to do business in the EU. If you travel around the EU you hardly see US brand products, yeah Apple has big present, that's because Nokia imploded. For the most part you will see looks of EU brands in the US but you do not see the opposite in the EU. The EU is more scare to allow US companies to operate in the EU because the know the US companies will out compete most EU brands. You can go to China and see more US brand than in the EU.
    edited February 2018
  • Reply 35 of 41
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,036member
    The market obviously is not the one of 'song recognizers', but of 'music streamers', i.e. Apple Music, Spotify, ...
    If Shazam prevents you from adding songs to your Spotify playlists, that's going to be a huge negative impact for Spotify.. 
    EU is right to be vigilant for stuff like that..
    That said, don't think Apple is a bad-faith actor either, so they may come to terms..

    Spotify could include the "song recognizer" feature into their own product nothing stopping them from doing that. Other company have done similar things https://beebom.com/shazam-alternatives/

  • Reply 36 of 41
    fred1 said:
    Please step away from your computer and take a deep breath.
    No. It’s important. I won’t downplay significance because your feelings got hurt by how forward I am.
    The US helped create the EU?  Possibly, but not likely.
    You’ll want to bone up on your history of the continent. Start with WWI and read about the League of Nations.
    Yes, the US saved Europe from fascism, but that's as far as it goes.
    *chuckle*
    And that was a while ago.
    As though that matters?
    ...does that mean that it's not threatened by it?  No.
    Prove the US is threatened by the people who use the US as their military security blanket against the “big, bad, evil” Russians. This ought to be good.
    avon b7 said:
    My guess is that most people who have actually lived in both places would choose the EU as place of permanent residence if they had the choice.
    Not even Europeans want to live in the EU anymore.
    On a broader scale belonging to the EU affords us power, influence and protection that we wouldn't enjoy otherwise.
    Right, because the independent (because you aren’t anymore) nations of Europe sure didn’t have power, influence, or protection before they had their sovereignty taken from them…
    Even the latest polls now claim that British opinion has changed over Brexit.
    I doubt that, particularly since even the French would vote to leave (again) if they actually had control of their nation and were given a plebiscite.
    The scrutiny of this deal would be less effective if every member state had to evaluate it individually.
    Yeah, how dare you let anyone decide for themselves what’s best for their nation and their people…
    You chose to quote Janusz Korwin-Mikke. Very unfortunate given his record and entirely unrepresentative of the realities of the EU.
    A Polish nationalist expressing the vast majority of the beliefs and opinions of his people. Hardly unrepresentative and hardly unreflective of the reality of the EU. Prove the statement wrong, then.
    edited February 2018
  • Reply 37 of 41
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,426member
    fred1 said:
    Please step away from your computer and take a deep breath.
    No. It’s important. I won’t downplay significance because your feelings got hurt by how forward I am.
    The US helped create the EU?  Possibly, but not likely.
    You’ll want to bone up on your history of the continent. Start with WWI and read about the League of Nations.
    Yes, the US saved Europe from fascism, but that's as far as it goes.
    *chuckle*
    And that was a while ago.
    As though that matters?
    ...does that mean that it's not threatened by it?  No.
    Prove the US is threatened by the people who use the US as their military security blanket against the “big, bad, evil” Russians. This ought to be good.
    avon b7 said:
    My guess is that most people who have actually lived in both places would choose the EU as place of permanent residence if they had the choice.
    Not even Europeans want to live in the EU anymore.
    On a broader scale belonging to the EU affords us power, influence and protection that we wouldn't enjoy otherwise.
    Right, because the independent (because you aren’t anymore) nations of Europe sure didn’t have power, influence, or protection before they had their sovereignty taken from them…
    Even the latest polls now claim that British opinion has changed over Brexit.
    I doubt that, particularly since even the French would vote to leave (again) if they actually had control of their nation and were given a plebiscite.
    The scrutiny of this deal would be less effective if every member state had to evaluate it individually.
    Yeah, how dare you let anyone decide for themselves what’s best for their nation and their people…
    You chose to quote Janusz Korwin-Mikke. Very unfortunate given his record and entirely unrepresentative of the realities of the EU.
    A Polish nationalist expressing the vast majority of the beliefs and opinions of his people. Hardly unrepresentative and hardly unreflective of the reality of the EU. Prove the statement wrong, then.
    Sovereignty? Actually, I consider myself European. Also British and also English. In fact Spanish too. It's a crazy world. The EU isn't perfect but neither is England, Britain or Spain. My passport is European.

    Overall, I'm very happy with things. 

    I only have to imagine life without the EU umbrella to realise what good the EU has brought to millions of people. The EU scrutinising the Apple/Shazam deal is all about standard practices. If it gets scuppered or conditions are required, there is a right of appeal although I can already envisage your reply on that point.

    Apple has gained huge advantages by dealing with the EU rather than a bundle of individual states.

    Btw, I imagine that Britain, post Brexit, will eventually see Apple reduce warranties to bring them into line with Apple's US warranties (all as part of a new anglo-American trade deal). Just one of a string of changes likely to become reality.
  • Reply 38 of 41
    avon b7 said:
    It's a crazy world.
    Is that supposed to be an argument? Nationalism is returning and there is nothing you can do to stop it.
    I only have to imagine life without the EU umbrella to realise what good the EU has brought to millions of people.
    Just not its people.
    The EU scrutinising the Apple/Shazam deal is all about standard practices. If it gets scuppered or conditions are required, there is a right of appeal although I can already envisage your reply on that point.
    You have no idea what my reply would be, as I’ve not commented on the topic. I’m entirely against monopolistic (read: marxist) practices. What Apple’s doing isn’t that.
  • Reply 39 of 41
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,426member
    avon b7 said:
    It's a crazy world.
    Is that supposed to be an argument? Nationalism is returning and there is nothing you can do to stop it.
    I only have to imagine life without the EU umbrella to realise what good the EU has brought to millions of people.
    Just not its people.
    The EU scrutinising the Apple/Shazam deal is all about standard practices. If it gets scuppered or conditions are required, there is a right of appeal although I can already envisage your reply on that point.
    You have no idea what my reply would be, as I’ve not commented on the topic. I’m entirely against monopolistic (read: marxist) practices. What Apple’s doing isn’t that.
    You can't possibly know. It's why the deal will be scrutinised in the first place. To gauge the impact on competition. This wasn't a EU thing. It was a request filed by Austria and then bolstered by other nations. The EU is simply doing its job.


    gatorguysingularity
  • Reply 40 of 41
    avon b7 said:
    You can't possibly know.
    If I have a company that sells soap and I buy a company that sells pizzas, that’s not monopolistic behavior.
    If I have a company that sells calzones and pasta and I buy a company that sells pizzas, that’s not monopolistic behavior.
    To gauge the impact on competition.

    Of course it will negatively impact the competition. Why the fuck would a company do anything if not to give it a better position against its competition? So what, it’s inherently monopolistic then? If not inherently, they can’t have any objection whatsoever, otherwise every company must be banned from buying any other company.

    edited February 2018
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