It’s funny how all the septic tanks seem to be up in arms over the EU saying pay what is due, but have completely missed the issue, Apple like many other multinationals is moving profits and IP to low tax rate havens and avoiding paying the tax most other companies have to. A good example is the billions Apple is holding outside the US and negotiating a low tax rate with congress to repatriate it (preferential treatment anyone). Apple make very little in the states transfer IP to Ireland and charge royalties to itself from Ireland to avoid paying US or EU tax rates I would have thought any patriotic American would be upset about that!?!
Despite your slur against Americans and Apple supporters, companies are required by their shareholders to take legal measures to maximize profitability. Offshoring IP and engaging in complex accounting procedures and using international laws to do this is a reasonable thing to do for Apple, a company in a position to exploit these laws. All perfectly legal. The EU is the entity that is in shambles because they can't get their members to abide by their own loosely cobbled together regulations.
I like Apple and the US but saying Apple has a legal obligation to avoid paying tax is no different to saying the EU has a legal obligation to recover tax that the Irish chose to not charge! Tax avoidance is evasion in all but name, I just find it ironic that Donald Trump is campaigning to employ US workers because it is good for the economy and your defending Apple not doing so!
They have a fiduciary duty to legally minimize taxes. They don't pay "no taxes", they pay as little as possible in taxes. I'd never support a company that foolishly wasted money. Would you?
China historically built a wall to keep the mongolians OUT, they didn't invade and conquer them, it's a totally different view on life.
Why did China just complete sea trials with their first domestically produced aircraft carrier then? That is a power projection platform, not a defensive one.
So only US can own aircraft carrier? What kind of retard thinking is it?
The EU needs to exhort and make up laws and apply them expo-facto style to pay for their nearly backrupt social programs. With the exception of Germany, almost every country in the Union is on the brink of failure.
Failure? What do you base that on? As far as I can tell most countries in EU does rather well, both on GDP and trade deficit, historically as well as compared to US. Definitely not on the brink of failure, at least.
It’s funny how all the septic tanks seem to be up in arms over the EU saying pay what is due, but have completely missed the issue, Apple like many other multinationals is moving profits and IP to low tax rate havens and avoiding paying the tax most other companies have to. A good example is the billions Apple is holding outside the US and negotiating a low tax rate with congress to repatriate it (preferential treatment anyone). Apple make very little in the states transfer IP to Ireland and charge royalties to itself from Ireland to avoid paying US or EU tax rates I would have thought any patriotic American would be upset about that!?!
Despite your slur against Americans and Apple supporters, companies are required by their shareholders to take legal measures to maximize profitability. Offshoring IP and engaging in complex accounting procedures and using international laws to do this is a reasonable thing to do for Apple, a company in a position to exploit these laws. All perfectly legal. The EU is the entity that is in shambles because they can't get their members to abide by their own loosely cobbled together regulations.
I like Apple and the US but saying Apple has a legal obligation to avoid paying tax is no different to saying the EU has a legal obligation to recover tax that the Irish chose to not charge! Tax avoidance is evasion in all but name, I just find it ironic that Donald Trump is campaigning to employ US workers because it is good for the economy and your defending Apple not doing so!
They have a fiduciary duty to legally minimize taxes. They don't pay "no taxes", they pay as little as possible in taxes. I'd never support a company that foolishly wasted money. Would you?
I definitely would. Why not. Also, I don't think paying taxes is a foolish waste of money.
Why not take a leaf out of the Spanish savings bank model and set a statutory amount of profits to be paid back to society through a social contribution?
Those 'values' that Tim Cook likes to speak of (in regards to tax accusations, btw) don't fit well when you are accused of paying .005% taxes.
A Product Red every now and then doesn't cut it.
Fiduciary duties fly both ways and often mean doing something in favour of other parties but to your own detriment.
Trying to fold those 'duties' into a legal excuse doesn't tackle the underlying problem: tax avoidance. That is precisely why the megacorporations are being investigated in the EU. Anything dug up as result of possible illegal avoidance will be prosecuted, while at the same time, all other data will be processed to help modify the laws to make them more effective. A double whammy if you like. Public exposure on the one hand and legislation on the other.
If the 0.005% is eventually proven, will Apple decide to recalculate its tax results for that year - even if only symbolically, and make a supplementary payment to the Irish government? That would be in line with the kind of values I consider to be values.
Would 0,005% be within the spirit of the law? Something we should all be able to comprehend.
The EU is saying that Ireland had a deal with Apple that was against their own laws and the treaty they had signed with all the other countries in the EU.
Apple like many other multinationals is moving profits and IP to low tax rate havens and avoiding paying the tax most other companies have to.
1. How is that the issue? 2. Tax avoidance is what sane people do. You have avoided taxes. Either shut the fuck up or accept your hypocrisy. 3. Tax evasion is what’s illegal.
A good example is the billions Apple is holding outside the US and negotiating a low tax rate with congress to repatriate it (preferential treatment anyone).
1. No singular company should receive a special repatriation rate. 2. Explain to the class why Apple should be forced to repatriate something they don’t want to. That’s what communists do.
I would have thought any patriotic American would be upset about that!?!
Patriotic Americans want as little government as is necessary for the security of a free state. You should muse on how your thoughts differ from US law.
Wow "slur against Americans and Apple supporters"??? How do you support Apple, buy its products and services and defend them as if they ever asked for or need your help.
How is that a response to what he said? He even highlighted what he was talking about.
Washington has a constant woody for corporate donations, their masters not the average US citizen.
Well, the bank (singular, global, privately owned) owns Washington. Companies are just accessories.
It’s funny how all the septic tanks seem to be up in arms over the EU saying pay what is due, but have completely missed the issue, Apple like many other multinationals is moving profits and IP to low tax rate havens and avoiding paying the tax most other companies have to. A good example is the billions Apple is holding outside the US and negotiating a low tax rate with congress to repatriate it (preferential treatment anyone). Apple make very little in the states transfer IP to Ireland and charge royalties to itself from Ireland to avoid paying US or EU tax rates I would have thought any patriotic American would be upset about that!?!
Despite your slur against Americans and Apple supporters, companies are required by their shareholders to take legal measures to maximize profitability. Offshoring IP and engaging in complex accounting procedures and using international laws to do this is a reasonable thing to do for Apple, a company in a position to exploit these laws. All perfectly legal. The EU is the entity that is in shambles because they can't get their members to abide by their own loosely cobbled together regulations.
I like Apple and the US but saying Apple has a legal obligation to avoid paying tax is no different to saying the EU has a legal obligation to recover tax that the Irish chose to not charge! Tax avoidance is evasion in all but name, I just find it ironic that Donald Trump is campaigning to employ US workers because it is good for the economy and your defending Apple not doing so!
They have a fiduciary duty to legally minimize taxes. They don't pay "no taxes", they pay as little as possible in taxes. I'd never support a company that foolishly wasted money. Would you?
They have a fiduciary duty to legally minimize taxes. They don't pay "no taxes", they pay as little as possible in taxes. I'd never support a company that foolishly wasted money. Would you?
The EU is saying that Ireland had a deal with Apple that was against their own laws and the treaty they had signed with all the other countries in the EU.
Apple like many other multinationals is moving profits and IP to low tax rate havens and avoiding paying the tax most other companies have to.
1. How is that the issue? 2. Tax avoidance is what sane people do. You have avoided taxes. Either shut the fuck up or accept your hypocrisy. 3. Tax evasion is what’s illegal.
A good example is the billions Apple is holding outside the US and negotiating a low tax rate with congress to repatriate it (preferential treatment anyone).
1. No singular company should receive a special repatriation rate. 2. Explain to the class why Apple should be forced to repatriate something they don’t want to. That’s what communists do.
I would have thought any patriotic American would be upset about that!?!
Patriotic Americans want as little government as is necessary for the security of a free state. You should muse on how your thoughts differ from US law.
So why is Tim Cook negotiating a special rate, they want to repatriate the money it makes no difference to me, I just hate when they act like they are doing the world a favour. Or bringing it back to Ireland when Bono tells us all we need to help the poor and starving in Africa by donating while he avoids tax and doesn’t donate a bean.
adrianwhitehurst said: So why is Tim Cook negotiating a special rate
It could well be because the government lets them. I only said that no company should receive individual treatment, not that they don’t. It’s a travesty if any company is allowed to do that.
I just hate when they act like they are doing the world a favour.
Yeah, I could do well without that. My view is that no individual should have his income taxed (since that’s just slavery), but that all corporations should receive an identical tax rate on income. A company “does the world a favor” by producing the products it produces. Any attempt to claim “virtue” in tax avoidance should be looked down upon.
Oh, a note for multicorpoglomernationalrations, specifically those that have income in countries with a lower tax rate than our own: the repatriation of profit from THOSE countries should be taxed at a rate which simply makes up the difference between the domestic rate and the foreign one. This being a country-specific tax, not a corporation-specific one, and differing only depending on the country from which the profit is returning.
It’s funny how all the septic tanks seem to be up in arms over the EU saying pay what is due, but have completely missed the issue, Apple like many other multinationals is moving profits and IP to low tax rate havens and avoiding paying the tax most other companies have to. A good example is the billions Apple is holding outside the US and negotiating a low tax rate with congress to repatriate it (preferential treatment anyone). Apple make very little in the states transfer IP to Ireland and charge royalties to itself from Ireland to avoid paying US or EU tax rates I would have thought any patriotic American would be upset about that!?!
Despite your slur against Americans and Apple supporters, companies are required by their shareholders to take legal measures to maximize profitability. Offshoring IP and engaging in complex accounting procedures and using international laws to do this is a reasonable thing to do for Apple, a company in a position to exploit these laws. All perfectly legal. The EU is the entity that is in shambles because they can't get their members to abide by their own loosely cobbled together regulations.
Wow "slur against Americans and Apple supporters"???
If calling people of differing opinions “septic tanks” isn’t deserving of a ban then prepare for this place to turn into a real cesspit.
That’s not including us paying 100% of NATO’s budget (which shouldn’t exist).
That's complete rubbish, the US pays about 22%. There are plenty that pay barely anything though, and that's wrong. Especially the Eastern European states who benefit from NATO's protection from Putin.
Poland and Estonia hit their 2% marks. The remaining three have raised theirs but will be a while before they reach it.
China historically built a wall to keep the mongolians OUT, they didn't invade and conquer them, it's a totally different view on life.
Why did China just complete sea trials with their first domestically produced aircraft carrier then? That is a power projection platform, not a defensive one.
So only US can own aircraft carrier? What kind of retard thinking is it?
if US want to be the boss of the world and the world police, maybe US should willing to pay without being a pussy complaining.
The retard thinking is the inabiiity to connect the assertion that China only builds defensively with the counter that it just built a weapons platform for power projection.
The original assertion that China wasn’t expansionist is laughable. Just ask their historical neighbors. One of the reasons that the Qing dynasty military was in decrepit state was the costly campaigns in SE Asia in the late 1700s. All the tribute states gained there were quickly lost to western colonial powers.
That they are not expansionist today is equally laughable. Just ask their neighbors. Like Tibet. Or Vietnam. Or India.
You’ll have to be more specific, seeing as you’re wrong about every single possible statement you could be asking for proof over.
Stop being asinine and show me where a company has a fiduciary duty to minimise taxes.
Ah, the old "fiduciary responsibility" chestnut. There's no so such thing, such a thing wouldn't even make sense if it were a thing, and you'll never get an answer from those who trot it out.
In fact, the legal precedent says something a lot more nuanced than these simpletons care to understand.
djsherly said: Stop being asinine and show me where a company has a fiduciary duty to minimise taxes.
The fuck do you mean ‘where’? Why are you expecting it to be a codified statement? It’s an implied maxim, inherent to the operation of economics. Here’s an analogy. You build a car. You call it a car. You market and sell it just like any other car. It doesn’t go in reverse. “What do you mean, ‘go in reverse’?” you say, “It’s a car. Where in the definition of the word ‘car’ does it say ‘has to go in reverse’? It already fits the description of a ‘car’; show me where it has to do anything beyond the mere word?”
djsherly said: Stop being asinine and show me where a company has a fiduciary duty to minimise taxes.
The fuck do you mean ‘where’? Why are you expecting it to be a codified statement? It’s an implied maxim, inherent to the operation of economics. Here’s an analogy. You build a car. You call it a car. You market and sell it just like any other car. It doesn’t go in reverse. “What do you mean, ‘go in reverse’?” you say, “It’s a car. Where in the definition of the word ‘car’ does it say ‘has to go in reverse’? It already fits the description of a ‘car’; show me where it has to do anything beyond the mere word?”
djsherly said: Stop being asinine and show me where a company has a fiduciary duty to minimise taxes.
The fuck do you mean ‘where’? Why are you expecting it to be a codified statement? It’s an implied maxim, inherent to the operation of economics. Here’s an analogy. You build a car. You call it a car. You market and sell it just like any other car. It doesn’t go in reverse. “What do you mean, ‘go in reverse’?” you say, “It’s a car. Where in the definition of the word ‘car’ does it say ‘has to go in reverse’? It already fits the description of a ‘car’; show me where it has to do anything beyond the mere word?”
Comments
Why not take a leaf out of the Spanish savings bank model and set a statutory amount of profits to be paid back to society through a social contribution?
Those 'values' that Tim Cook likes to speak of (in regards to tax accusations, btw) don't fit well when you are accused of paying .005% taxes.
A Product Red every now and then doesn't cut it.
Fiduciary duties fly both ways and often mean doing something in favour of other parties but to your own detriment.
Trying to fold those 'duties' into a legal excuse doesn't tackle the underlying problem: tax avoidance. That is precisely why the megacorporations are being investigated in the EU. Anything dug up as result of possible illegal avoidance will be prosecuted, while at the same time, all other data will be processed to help modify the laws to make them more effective. A double whammy if you like. Public exposure on the one hand and legislation on the other.
If the 0.005% is eventually proven, will Apple decide to recalculate its tax results for that year - even if only symbolically, and make a supplementary payment to the Irish government? That would be in line with the kind of values I consider to be values.
Would 0,005% be within the spirit of the law? Something we should all be able to comprehend.
1. How is that the issue?
2. Tax avoidance is what sane people do. You have avoided taxes. Either shut the fuck up or accept your hypocrisy.
3. Tax evasion is what’s illegal.
1. No singular company should receive a special repatriation rate.
2. Explain to the class why Apple should be forced to repatriate something they don’t want to. That’s what communists do.
Patriotic Americans want as little government as is necessary for the security of a free state. You should muse on how your thoughts differ from US law.
How is that a response to what he said? He even highlighted what he was talking about.
Well, the bank (singular, global, privately owned) owns Washington. Companies are just accessories.
Yeah, I could do well without that. My view is that no individual should have his income taxed (since that’s just slavery), but that all corporations should receive an identical tax rate on income. A company “does the world a favor” by producing the products it produces. Any attempt to claim “virtue” in tax avoidance should be looked down upon.
Oh, a note for multicorpoglomernationalrations, specifically those that have income in countries with a lower tax rate than our own: the repatriation of profit from THOSE countries should be taxed at a rate which simply makes up the difference between the domestic rate and the foreign one. This being a country-specific tax, not a corporation-specific one, and differing only depending on the country from which the profit is returning.
The real slackers are Germany, Spain and Italy.
As much shit as we give France they are over 2%.
The original assertion that China wasn’t expansionist is laughable. Just ask their historical neighbors. One of the reasons that the Qing dynasty military was in decrepit state was the costly campaigns in SE Asia in the late 1700s. All the tribute states gained there were quickly lost to western colonial powers.
That they are not expansionist today is equally laughable. Just ask their neighbors. Like Tibet. Or Vietnam. Or India.
Apple must fight $15.3B EU tax bill without US government help
Tim will remember.In fact, the legal precedent says something a lot more nuanced than these simpletons care to understand.
Explain why companies do not pay 100% of their profits in taxes.