On first reading it looks like a tacit admission of a design problem but the user will have to live with it once out of warranty or pay for repair.
Sounds like the GeForce 8600M problem in earlier MacBook Pros, where they just swapped out an identical logic board with another GPU that had a 100% failure rate.
Exactly. (and that's what killed my first MacBook Pro) This isn't a solution. It's a PR action.
Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that has pushed me to desktops instead of 'pro' laptops. If I did buy one, I'd be buying a more base model and hooking up an eGPU. They just aren't made to take the heat. I've had 2 of them fail, personally, over the years due to GPU issues... and have seen more in the corporate setting. One was fixed by Apple, but the other wasn't.
urashid said: But they are covering the keyboard out of warranty, just not extending the warranty for any other issues. That's how I am reading it.
Yeah, that's my read as well. 4 years for the keyboard, normal or Apple-care extension for the rest.
While this is really good news (my son just bought a 13" MBP), I've always kept MBPs longer than 4 years, so if you keep it say 6 or 7, you could still be facing some expensive repairs. But, this is certainly better than nothing.
Four years from the first sale of the unit, not just your purchase. If you have a three year old 2015 Macbook, or even bought one recently off the refurb store, you're still kinda boned.
This is just like the 4 year solder issue extension, started 3 years after the problem, leaving you with a 1 year window for the failure to occur, if it happened after you were still on your own.
It's better than nothing, but 4 years from YOUR purchase date would help refurbs not feel burned.
Hmm... interesting point. At least we bought a 2017, but yeah, I guess it could be a year less than I'm thinking, as we bought a refurb. (I pretty much always do these days if they are available, as I've had better luck with them than new... but this is an angle I haven't considered.)
ireland said: I don’t know if they are horrible, but a bit extra key travel can be nice when using a physical keyboard. Like a piano with half the travel would feel yucky. Or a doorbell with half the press-travel, I wouldn’t like. Or a gas pedal with only a small amount of accelerator travel. The list goes on. Most humans like a decent amount of tactility.
Agreed. While I could get used to it to some extent, I don't think I'd be as efficient as with other keyboards. It isn't like an iPhone home button or magic track-pad where you just need a bit of feedback, but having that travel is, as you say, a bit (not quite to the extreme) like those other mechanical things. As a former music keyboard player, I do think the 'feel' of computer keyboards is a fairly good analogy.
I think we can conduct some small tests to find out why the new keyboard fails. Apple said it's caused by dusts but I doubt it. Replacing a broken key with a working one and see if it works, then swapping different parts with the broken one, and finally we might see what's going on (If there's nothing wrong with the switch, then it could be something wrong with the traces underneath).
I don't think I've heard anything about the first-generation keyboard, which I guess is more reliable than the second-generation?
I agree. I haven't had any issues with my 2015 Macbook at home, but the work Macbook Pro 2016 already has a sticky spacebar. Luckily, I use an external, wired keyboard at work (still going strong after eight years).
I purchased a 2016 MacBook Pro in February. I noticed the typed key doubling effect (which created results like "appple" or "Macbbook". I chalked it up to the keyboard being different to type on and soldiered on.
About a month before I left Costa Rica, my keyboard failed entirely - pressing buttons would do nothing. Unfortunately, the Apple Stores there do not honor the US warranty, something that left me alarmed. Fortunately I had already scheduled a trip back to the US. Upon my return, I went to the Apple Store Wellington Green to get it fixed. In a little under a week, I had my computer back, good as new.
Actually, better than new. The keyboard is working flawlessly without a doubling problem.
I just hope it will last, because a failure while I'm back in Costa Rica will be a big problem ... For anyone who's not in Costa Rica much of the time, I highly recommend the machine. Time will tell whether I should have gotten the old keyboard, but I actually like the feel of the butterfly keyboard and enjoy typing on it. I would say that if you have a problem, bring it in for service and give it another chance.
One handy tip: If you are visiting a country where Apple's warranty is not supported, bring along a Apple wireless keyboard and trackpad. Pair them with your laptop before you leave. They will enable you to use a computer with a broken keyboard while you wait for your next trip back to the US. I was able to find something that looked a lot like an Apple Wireless Keyboard, but I had to hit the "1" key about five times to be able to type a "1". Don't be like me. Take the real thing along. At least the semi-functioning substitute was only 8,000 colones. (About $15).
I have a 2017 MBP 15” with the same problem, specifically with the “B” key. I usually get doubble characters but will sometimes get triple characters or more, upon a single key press. I’ve done all the cleaning and compressed air thing to no avail. The probbblem always comes back. I’ve never had a laptop do this bbefore. Spoke to a advisor about it once at Apple Support and he bbbbasically told me you can’t bbbelieve what you read on the inet and that it’s sometimes exaggerated. Yeah right liar..
Maybe Apple knows why and how keyboard fails, but we don’t.
We don't in detail, but it stands to reason that if Machine A has actions in the centimetre range and machine B has actions in millimetre range then machine B will be more susceptible to smaller debris. I have one of these keyboards, and everything is very "tight."
Maybe Apple knows why and how keyboard fails, but we don’t.
We don't in detail, but it stands to reason that if Machine A has actions in the centimetre range and machine B has actions in millimetre range then machine B will be more susceptible to smaller debris. I have one of these keyboards, and everything is very "tight."
Original scissor keyboard only have 1~1.5mm of travel (I remembered Retina version about have 1.2mm). Butterflies are around 0.8mm, so I don’t think it’s that tight. It’s not like you can’t press the keys at all, but rather no register after you pressed it.
Wow, that’s all of them! I was hoping it was an isolated affliction but it seems the butterfly design is fundamentally flawed.
They're also horrible to type on.
That’s a generalized statement, seeing as how I kinda like using the keyboard. Minimum of motion on the part of my fingers and all, meaning I’m no longer mashing down on keys ( bad habit picked up from WoW raids).
Would’ve been nice if they did this without thousands having to sign a petition.
True, but at least they are doing something about it. There are other issues out there that they still won't own up to, like 6+ touch issues and blaming the customer for dropping their device when that's not the cause of the issue.
They act like a kid who's been caught changing their grades on their report card. Deny, until they're cornered.
On first reading it looks like a tacit admission of a design problem but the user will have to live with it once out of warranty or pay for repair.
Sounds like the GeForce 8600M problem in earlier MacBook Pros, where they just swapped out an identical logic board with another GPU that had a 100% failure rate.
I had one of those. Got the motherboard swapped 3 times!
Good for Apple for backing their product. Again. But:
Not to be a cynic but, until Apple gets up to speed with other high end manufacturers...
In other words: Thin, light & high performance are not the only factors most people look for in a laptop. For example: Toyota's became the #1 selling car due to their reputation as "bullet proof". While I applaud Apple for their move, I think they have further yet to go...)
Would’ve been nice if they did this without thousands having to sign a petition.
How do you know the petition is what caused this? Maybe Apple was just building inventories before doing this replacement program? Its not like Apple just has hundreds of thousands of replacement top cases for the various MacBook lineup sitting in warehouses.
This isn't really anything new. Apple has always done things this way. They're silent forever and then all of a sudden there's a replacement program available. This was EXACTLY how it was under Steve if someone wanted to go down that road. Happened constantly.
Good for Apple for backing their product. Again. But:
Not to be a cynic but, until Apple gets up to speed with other high end manufacturers...
In other words: Thin, light & high performance are not the only factors most people look for in a laptop. For example: Toyota's became the #1 selling car due to their reputation as "bullet proof". While I applaud Apple for their move, I think they have further yet to go...)
Oh my god dude...If you're so much in love with your China developed spy laptop then by all means go buy one.
Would’ve been nice if they did this without thousands having to sign a petition.
How do you know the petition is what caused this? Maybe Apple was just building inventories before doing this replacement program? Its not like Apple just has hundreds of thousands of replacement top cases for the various MacBook lineup sitting in warehouses.
This isn't really anything new. Apple has always done things this way. They're silent forever and then all of a sudden there's a replacement program available. This was EXACTLY how it was under Steve if someone wanted to go down that road. Happened constantly.
Apple wasn't building inventories as this isn't a pre-emptive repair programne. This repair (according to Apple) only affects a very small percentage of units and is dealt with as problems occur. It's not like the battery issue where you could check it's health. The only real difference with regards to keyboard problems until now is that Apple will supposedly show less resistance to repairing them.
On the communication question, this is what Apple has largely always done wrong. Silence.
Would’ve been nice if they did this without thousands having to sign a petition.
How do you know the petition is what caused this? Maybe Apple was just building inventories before doing this replacement program? Its not like Apple just has hundreds of thousands of replacement top cases for the various MacBook lineup sitting in warehouses.
This isn't really anything new. Apple has always done things this way. They're silent forever and then all of a sudden there's a replacement program available. This was EXACTLY how it was under Steve if someone wanted to go down that road. Happened constantly.
I don’t know for sure, except it comes after the petition, so it’s a pretty good guess. I would have hoped Apple itself would have thought it outrageous to charge $700 for a busted key for a relatively new laptop, and fix those for free quietly until this is sorted out. That’s what I would have done, especially after repeated key fails.
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Yeah, that's my read as well. 4 years for the keyboard, normal or Apple-care extension for the rest.
While this is really good news (my son just bought a 13" MBP), I've always kept MBPs longer than 4 years, so if you keep it say 6 or 7, you could still be facing some expensive repairs. But, this is certainly better than nothing.
Hmm... interesting point. At least we bought a 2017, but yeah, I guess it could be a year less than I'm thinking, as we bought a refurb. (I pretty much always do these days if they are available, as I've had better luck with them than new... but this is an angle I haven't considered.)
Agreed. While I could get used to it to some extent, I don't think I'd be as efficient as with other keyboards. It isn't like an iPhone home button or magic track-pad where you just need a bit of feedback, but having that travel is, as you say, a bit (not quite to the extreme) like those other mechanical things. As a former music keyboard player, I do think the 'feel' of computer keyboards is a fairly good analogy.
Or, is it the exact same keyboard?
They act like a kid who's been caught changing their grades on their report card. Deny, until they're cornered.
In other words: Thin, light & high performance are not the only factors most people look for in a laptop. For example: Toyota's became the #1 selling car due to their reputation as "bullet proof". While I applaud Apple for their move, I think they have further yet to go...)
This isn't really anything new. Apple has always done things this way. They're silent forever and then all of a sudden there's a replacement program available. This was EXACTLY how it was under Steve if someone wanted to go down that road. Happened constantly.
On the communication question, this is what Apple has largely always done wrong. Silence.